Talking NFL

[slikpulla152]

with that logic Peyton Manning can't carry a team either. he has a supporting cast. he's never been tested with having a subpar offense. The biggest test he's had in his career is losing Harrison this season and having to replace him with Reggie Wayne.

also with that logic you should throw Micheal Vick in that list, he carried the falcons to playoff runs with a sorry team around him. look at them now,

 

[zell]

with that logic Peyton Manning can't carry a team either. he has a supporting cast. he's never been tested with having a subpar offense. The biggest test he's had in his career is losing Harrison this season and having to replace him with Reggie Wayne.

also with that logic you should throw Micheal Vick in that list, he carried the falcons to playoff runs with a sorry team around him. look at them now,

Now you get it!:thumbsup:

 

[bodie54]

what do you think about my question, do you think this will be the biggest choke ever if the Pats lose in the playoffs?

No.
Not at all.

 

[flim_flam]

All this talk about whether Tom Brady is one the best or not... doesn't make any sense.

Let's boil it down to pure statistics and championship rings.

Dan Marino- went to the big dance and lost; all of his records have been broken.

Joe Montana- never set any records (except TD passes in a superbowl game).

Peyton Manning- lost more championship games than he's won. Hello, anybody watch the last 46 AFC title games?

John Elway- didn't get a ring until the last two years of a very, very long career.

Brett Favre- lots of longterm records that may never be beaten, but he's only got one ring on his hand, remember?

And there are a whole slew of other names that come up in any good talk about stellar quarterbacks that I won't even mention (only because I'm talking here about records + championships, not because I don't think that Steve Young, Fran Tarkenton, Y.A. Tittle, and others are among the greatest quarterbacks ever).

When it comes down to it, though- Tom Brady has the biggest record- TD passes in a single season. That translates to POINTS, which is what it takes to win ballgames. He's also got three Super Bowl rings, and probably will get himself a fourth in February. More importantly, he's got what all those lauded quarterbacks have- that nameless something. Call it what you want- pocket presence, heart, ambition, drive, game, love, skill, vision, etc. He has it.

So- is Tom Brady the greatest quarterback ever? No- I don't believe that any single man holds that title (except for maybe Brett Favre, just for the sake of sheer toughness). But- is he one of the greatest ever? You'd have to be a fool to not believe it.


And this comes from someone who is in no way shape or form a Patriots fan.

 

[D-rock]

You left out some names on the list like Otto Graham and Johnny Unitas.

I would say Brady is somewhere in the top 10, maybe top 5 to 7 based on his skill at playing the position, and his career isn't even over yet. That’s pretty good. However it's silly to judge a quarterback, or any other player, on Superbowl victories and almost as bad to do so on "intangibles" or what happens in a single season. Using that standard people could claim Roger Maris was one of the greatest baseball players ever. Brady didn't win three Superbolws the New England Patriots did, and one of them they got lucky on and all of them were won on very slim margins in any case. For many years now the 53 players on the patriots plus their coaching staff and front office have been better a lot more often than not than the 53 players plus coaching staff and front office that the other team put out there. A disproportionate amount of credit shouldn't go to Brady for that just like a disproportionate amount of blame should go to somebody like Dan Marino, for example, because he (or more accurately the Dolphins while he played) never won a Superbowl. What also has to be keep in mind is many of the greats he will be compared to played under different rules. Almost all of the rule changes have made it easier for the offense and especially the passing game in particular over time. Even with the list you gave Montana, Marino, and Elway played under more restrictive rules. The people before them had it even worse. Then you have to take into fact that for many of the greats of the past they didn’t get to play a 16 game schedule.

 

[flim_flam]

Extremely good points, D-rock. I didn't leave out any names intentionally, I just opted to leave in the ones that seem to be most frequently discussed when the position of quarterback comes up.

Yes, the rules have changed a great deal, making it easier for the offense and the passing game. That's why I'm not lauding Randy Moss for his breaking of Jerry Rice's record- though it is an impressive stat, Jerry Rice picked up his record in a 12 game season.

But, you also have to keep in mind- even with all these rule changes, and even with a longer season- Tom Brady still managed to do something that no other quarterback has done yet. His records may not stand forever, and they may not even stand for long- but for now that's his, which speaks of an undeniable talent. I'd definitely put him in a top ten, though I tend to not make such lists because I can never decided on who to put at #1.

 

[member006]

Can we say playoffs? Nuff said.

artysml:

LL

 

[titsrock]

Football is a constantly changing economic entertainment. As the owners realize they can squeeze more and more money out of football, the seasons will get longer. As the players discover that contracts will get fatter and fatter, they'll train even harder for an even longer period of time (not to mention lunatic parents will follow Marv Marinovich's model of child rearing..)..

The point is is that WE CAN, with authority, say that Tom Brady is the best Pro QB we've ever seen. The amount of time and money spent by coaching staffs on preparing their teams and players increases every year. And yet every year he makes the throws. Randy Moss was still a proven monster, but Donte Stallworth is just a good WR, but let's face it, Wes Welker was nothing but a Miami castoff and now, with Tom Brady throwing the ball to him, he's an ALL STAR...IN 1 YEAR!

I am crowning Tom Brady and Randy Moss the greatest ever to play their positions. I've said so in another thread. I won't "crown" the Pats the best ever because I'd like to see a Hall of Famer run the ball for them...they don't have one and obviously, don't need one to clown the NFL....:dunno:

Great teams are filled with Hall of Famers and Superstars. The 80s Niners had them, the 90s Cowboys had them...the 2000s Patriots may not need as many HOF's as the earlier dynasties because, well, there are more teams and the talent level is spread around the league....

 

[bodie54]

Can we say playoffs? Nuff said.

artysml:

LL

Congratulations, LL :thumbsup:

And best of all, they totally bitch slapped the Cowboys to get there

 

[icerfan]

Can we say playoffs? Nuff said.

PLAYOFFS? :rofl:

 

[Deeeze]

PLAYOFFS? :rofl:

I knew it was coming

 

[KungFuDude]

PLAYOFFS? :rofl:

Don't talk about playoffs !

 

[KungFuDude]

Worth mentioning..

Lovie Smith is now 6-2 against the hated fudge packers. The man made beating them top priority and he has delivered. Take that Dave Wannstedt!

In Lovie, we trusty!

 

[D-rock]

Worth mentioning..

Lovie Smith is now 6-2 against the hated fudge packers. The man made beating them top priority and he has delivered. Take that Dave Wannstedt!

In Lovie, we trusty!

If the defense can manage to hold itself together for another year the offense is so bad it has nowhere to go but up. So in that respect I have hope for next year. In fact if they can get some mad scientist to combine Grossman's, Griese's, and Orton's best qualities into one person they might have a below average quarterback instead of a terrible one for once.

They still have to start thinking about getting younger on the offensive line.

 

[Deeeze]

Other then two missed passes from Hasselback,the Seahawks look very good........especially that defense.

Go Hawks!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[TheSatyrIcon]

There is almost a 100% certainty that the AFC will produce the next Super Bowl champs, 90% assured that it will be the Patriots!

The Satyr Icon

 

[Deeeze]

There is almost a 100% certainty that the AFC will produce the next Super Bowl champs, 90% assured that it will be the Patriots!

The Satyr Icon

It ain't over yet

 

[D-rock]

There is almost a 100% certainty that the AFC will produce the next Super Bowl champs, 90% assured that it will be the Patriots!

The Satyr Icon

Be careful, you don’t want to jinx them.

 

[cartman24]

I can't believe how many chances the Redskins blew today. The Seahawks are the better team though.

 

[slikpulla152]

the seahawks suck