To Europeans, U.S. Universal Health Care Is Long Overdue

[lurkingdirk]

As both an American AND a resident of a European country all I have to say is unless a European has lived in America and dealt with health care there, they will never understand exactly why people are pissed. Just like an American who has never lived elsewhere will never understand other countries health care scheme.

This.
:thumbsup:

 

[meesterperfect]

I see it like this.
it may be all good in europe (which i dont think it is)
but thats europe.

will it help the USA or just strangle the working class more to the level of poor?

one difference between the USA and europe is:
In europe you dont have about 30% of the population not working,not paying federal or state taxes, not paying into SS, recieving a nice bonus check of thousand$ each year for having children out of wedlock, living entirely off the taxpayers and whose main source of income having children, in which most of those children grow up and live the same way.

what no one wants to recognize is that since the 60's these type of people have been reproducing at a much much greater rate than the ones who work and support themselves.
why? because they are free, while the ones supporting them are too busy working to start a family let alone have a life.
they aint waking up at 5 am and getting home at 7pm just to look forward to doing the same thing the next day, and the day after that , and the day after that.
combine that also with massive immigration from mexico and what do you get?
2010 USA. quality of life in the gutter.

I think this new health system is just a continuation of the welfare system to be quite honest.

 

[mrtrebus]

"these type of people"?!?
How patronising.

 

[mrtrebus]

This is not the first time that someone who doesn't reside here has made bold comments and an "understanding" of topics that don't concern them at all.....and I for one am sick and tired of it. I don't mind comments at all, as long as they are not draped in a thick blanket of condescending and elitist attitudes......there is a history here, THAT is why my first post is a little heated.....and oh yeah, :thefinger right back at you mate!

Oooh! Calm down dear!
Anyway, I'll remember that. &check that you are only posting comments (bold or otherwise) on topics that do concern you!

 

[Namreg]

Remember that time when America saved the whole continent from tyranny? Yeah, me too. And we didn't have universal health care then. So fuck off, all of you.

when was that? when you sent a half-dozen racially segregated soldiers to help the russians clean up?

 

[mrtrebus]

Remember that time when America saved the whole continent from tyranny? Yeah, me too. And we didn't have universal health care then. So fuck off, all of you.

Amazing that you can make a totally nonsensical correlation between America allegedly saving the whole world(?) from tyranny & not having universal health care at the time. How do those two disparate 'facts' link to each other?!? Please elaborate. Please.

 

[meesterperfect]

"these type of people"?!?
How patronising.

how about," those wonderful people who just don't want to work god bless them"?

hey everybody, why wont this cat answer oreilly's simple question
who enforces that working people pay into this?

 

[mrtrebus]

how about," those wonderful people who just don't want to work god bless them"?

Er no. Its simplistic patronising & just plain wrong to label ALL of them as people who don't WANT to work. :hatsoff:

 

[meesterperfect]

Er no. Its simplistic patronising & just plain wrong to label ALL of them as people who don't WANT to work. :hatsoff:

ok but its true, a huge percentage of the usa refuse to work and contribute nothing to the tax system while living off it for life.
these people will not be required to pay into this new health system, will not be fined for not paying into it, but will be able to use it, and use it they will.

now is that factually wrong or just wrong to say based on some "things you should and should not say system" that i have not been briefed on yet?

 

[Boothbabe]

You asked your wife's uncle, one guy, and don't even understand that while you tried to spin what he said to "prove" your point, you and he showed exactly why this is considered a travesty over here.

I didn't try to spin what he said. i asked him because I genuinely don't understand and that's the answer he gave me.

But here's a question, do you agree with the idea that medical care is a basic human right. Something wich everyone is entitled to? If so you must also agree with the idea that a basic human right must never be controlled by private corporations simply because @ the end of the day they have only one goal, to maximize their profits. Their goals and a basic human right don't mix.

 

[Namreg]

I didn't try to spin what he said. i asked him because I genuinely don't understand and that's the answer he gave me.

But here's a question, do you agree with the idea that medical care is a basic human right. Something wich everyone is entitled to? If so you must also agree with the idea that a basic human right must never be controlled by private corporations simply because @ the end of the day they have only one goal, to maximize their profits. Their goals and a basic human right don't mix.

americans don't care about other americans, nevermind the rest of humanity. there are exceptions to that rule of course, and in the US such exceptions are insulted as communists or worse.

 

[Hot Mega]

how about," those wonderful people who just don't want to work god bless them"?

hey everybody, why wont this cat answer oreilly's simple question
who enforces that working people pay into this?

Does it matter per se what agency enforces any statute or law?? I mean if he answered IRS or FBI....what bearing does that have on compliance??

I didn't try to spin what he said. i asked him because I genuinely don't understand and that's the answer he gave me.

But here's a question, do you agree with the idea that medical care is a basic human right. Something wich everyone is entitled to? If so you must also agree with the idea that a basic human right must never be controlled by private corporations simply because @ the end of the day they have only one goal, to maximize their profits. Their goals and a basic human right don't mix.

I support universal health care but I don't believe it qualifies as a "right". Something supplied to someone by way of someone else's largess can never be a per se "right" IMO.

For example, there is no "right" to have the government extinguish fire involving your property. But it's the right thing to do in developed societies for a variety of practical reasons. It simply makes practical sense that the g'ment ensures this type of service (among others) is available to it's citizens irrespective of their personal circumstance. Health care among other services fall into the same type of category IMO.

As a society that pays for a service like fire depts. through taxation, we don't sit around whining about the increased risk people's personal behavior has on their risk for home fires. We accept the simple reality that it makes sense to provide the service at taxpayer expense. Health care is the same thing...it shouldn't be for the haves and not the have nots in a country with our GDP.

 

[Facetious]

I see it like this.
it may be all good in europe (which i dont think it is)
but thats europe.

will it help the USA or just strangle the working class more to the level of poor?

one difference between the USA and europe is:
In europe you dont have about 30% of the population not working,not paying federal or state taxes, not paying into SS, recieving a nice bonus check of thousand$ each year for having children out of wedlock, living entirely off the taxpayers and whose main source of income having children, in which most of those children grow up and live the same way.

what no one wants to recognize is that since the 60's these type of people have been reproducing at a much much greater rate than the ones who work and support themselves.
why? because they are free, while the ones supporting them are too busy working to start a family let alone have a life.
they aint waking up at 5 am and getting home at 7pm just to look forward to doing the same thing the next day, and the day after that , and the day after that.

I Agree with everything here but we must understand that the types of individuals you have described are victims of their own ideology, for them, there is no turning back because once they realize the cold dead truth, they're in a time and place when and where it's not very comforting to change course. Seriously, who wants to abandon all of the comradery of their like minded friends when in their twenties ? Do you see how insidious the radicai lib influence is ? As they say, get to them while they're still young.

Aside : If you grew up in a single parent home under the authority of your mother and you were left at the hands of the public school so called "educators" and today you are not an angry radical anti capitalist liberal, but just a responsible working citizen who pays his or her taxes, carries their own weight and more, well, I salute you ! :hatsoff:

During school, all through high school and 2 years of college (AS deg.) I'll always remember taking everything that I was taught with a grain of salt because more often than not, I would prove the teachers wrong . . but not to their faces, only at home.
.

I think this new health system is just a continuation of the welfare system to be quite honest.

Agreed, it's also a scam to naturalize about 20 million additional new needy democrats to the rank . . . Wait a minute ! Did you say 20 million more legal citizens into the American society ? but . . .but . what about the environment ? I guess that the environment takes a back seat to winning elections.


I can already see the democratic party sign up desk at the naturalization tent . . . :1orglaugh

"Do Not Pass GO until ....... "

 

[sporty_carr]

SO, if people "don't fucking live here" they can't comment or understand an issue?!? What a load of balderdash! :thefinger

What the hell!?!?! Who let you out of your thread? You're supposed to wait there until I have a question to ask you. Now get back to work!

 

[mrtrebus]

What the hell!?!?! Who let you out of your thread? You're supposed to wait there until I have a question to ask you. Now get back to work!

:lame:

 

[Galactic]

Oooh! Calm down dear!
Anyway, I'll remember that. &check that you are only posting comments (bold or otherwise) on topics that do concern you!

I'm actually not too worried about that, my man......I rarely pipe up any longer, because most of it is garbage.....when I do, it is to rebut idiotic ramblings from certain members here who think their shit doesn't stink. End of story.

 

[Galactic]

I didn't try to spin what he said. i asked him because I genuinely don't understand and that's the answer he gave me.

But here's a question, do you agree with the idea that medical care is a basic human right. Something wich everyone is entitled to? If so you must also agree with the idea that a basic human right must never be controlled by private corporations simply because @ the end of the day they have only one goal, to maximize their profits. Their goals and a basic human right don't mix.

Absolutely agree that medical care is indeed a basic right that should be available to all humans. Here, though, is where I think you are still missing the point.

We here in America, I think the overwhelming majority in fact, all agree that the system in place right now in this country definitely does need to be revamped.

That does NOT mean we want Barry O and his cronies coming in and drastically altering the way this country operates.

I firmly believe that health care in the U.S. needs to changed. I do NOT believe that this government has the right to demand that I purchase soemthing.....that goes against the very constitutional rights given to every U.S. citizen to protect us against this very thing. Our government does not have the right to force us to buy anything.

Period. End of story. It really is as simple as that.

What I think a lot of people are confusing is that those of us that do not agree with Obama must not want people to afford health care. That is not the case. There are simpler, CHEAPER, less government intrusive things that could have been done without the passage of a monstrous bill that we will never be able to pay for, has the danger of further crippling an already tenuous situation with our economy, and gives the fucking IRS even more power over individual citizens of this country.

Like they didn't have enough already.

One of the beautiful ideas about the U.S.A is how that in theory, it is run by the people. We, however, are longer listened to or respected. It isn't our show anymore, like it was intended to be. It is not new, it has been happening in this country for the last 100 plus years....it's just that when that idiot signed that bill, the dawning of a new age occurred in this country, and one that I really, truly believe will lead to further disaster and not the "hope" and "change" we can believe in.

This isn't over by a long shot, you can be sure of that.

 

[Hot Mega]

I rarely pipe up any longer

You're in luck!!! And the new bill should cover it unless you're a sex offender.:o

 

[Hot Mega]

Absolutely agree that medical care is indeed a basic right that should be available to all humans. Here, though, is where I think you are still missing the point.

We here in America, I think the overwhelming majority in fact, all agree that the system in place right now in this country definitely does need to be revamped.

That does NOT mean we want Barry O and his cronies coming in and drastically altering the way this country operates.

I firmly believe that health care in the U.S. needs to changed. I do NOT believe that this government has the right to demand that I purchase soemthing.....that goes against the very constitutional rights given to every U.S. citizen to protect us against this very thing. Our government does not have the right to force us to buy anything.

Period. End of story. It really is as simple as that.

What I think a lot of people are confusing is that those of us that do not agree with Obama must not want people to afford health care. That is not the case. There are simpler, CHEAPER, less government intrusive things that could have been done without the passage of a monstrous bill that we will never be able to pay for, has the danger of further crippling an already tenuous situation with our economy, and gives the fucking IRS even more power over individual citizens of this country.

Like they didn't have enough already.

One of the beautiful ideas about the U.S.A is how that in theory, it is run by the people. We, however, are longer listened to or respected. It isn't our show anymore, like it was intended to be. It is not new, it has been happening in this country for the last 100 plus years....it's just that when that idiot signed that bill, the dawning of a new age occurred in this country, and one that I really, truly believe will lead to further disaster and not the "hope" and "change" we can believe in.

This isn't over by a long shot, you can be sure of that.

I love how some in our country champion the politicians they support rifling through policy and sticking it to "them" when they have majorities but whenever policy is enacted they disagree with it's viva la revolucion.:1orglaugh

All of a sudden it's we can't pay for something now or leaving such and such for future generations and blah, blah, blah....

They champion some goober they support defying public will by saying they don't follow polls, etc. But when it's not their team all of a sudden politicians don't listen to the people anymore.

Funniest is the accusation that some policy will break the country, saddle future generations with debt, etc.

These are the same clowns who supported spending nearly a trillion dollars in Iraq on an unfounded, debunked claim, costing thousands of American lives and the kicker....not finding a single penny to pay for it now.:1orglaugh

But pass a health care bill (as imperfect as it may be) and it's break out the nooses and brickbats.

Save the phony outrage (hypocritical reasoning).

BTW Gal...what do you propose?

 

[Galactic]

I love how some in our country champion the politicians they support rifling through policy and sticking it to "them" when they have majorities but whenever policy is enacted they disagree with it's viva la revolucion.:1orglaugh

All of a sudden it's we can't pay for something now or leaving such and such for future generations and blah, blah, blah....

They champion some goober they support defying public will by saying they don't follow polls, etc. But when it's not their team all of a sudden politicians don't listen to the people anymore.

Funniest is the accusation that some policy will break the country, saddle future generations with debt, etc.

These are the same clowns who supported spending nearly a trillion dollars in Iraq on an unfounded, debunked claim, costing thousands of American lives and the kicker....not finding a single penny to pay for it now.:1orglaugh

But pass a health care bill (as imperfect as it may be) and it's break out the nooses and brickbats.

Save the phony outrage (hypocritical reasoning).

BTW Gal...what do you propose?

This is why I can't stand you Mega. All you do is assume. Where did I ever claim I thought the war was a good idea? Where did I ever claim that spending that much money was not a bullshit idea? Why do you IMMEDIATELY lump opposing voices into one group? Why do you insist on pigeon holing people?

Don't you dare question my authenticity regarding outrage, or lack there of as you would seem to think. You don't know me, and that is a very good thing.

I will spell it out for you once more, and hopefully, maybe, you can understand this.

The government does NOT have the right to force its citizens to purchase something.

THAT is what has me mostly fired up.

Were you able to understand that? Are you going to go ahead and assume more things about me, someone you don't fucking know? Yeah, probably.....

You know, the thing that actually does intrigue me a little bit about you Mega is you do seem like a reasonably intelligent guy, but when you attack people it is less through facts and more through condescending, belittling assumptions, which in the long run, make you look like a fucking ass. You belittle and put down.....and then at the very end of your posts, you suddenly are the reasonable debater, willing in your wisdom to allow the subject of your assault to respond with their opinion.

I have to say, I like how you are the guy I love to hate around here.