Right-Wing Says You'll Die If Health Care Passes

[Jagger69]

OK everyone. This thread is really one of the best threads I have been involved in in quite a while so I appreciate the viewpoints of everyone....the open and honest exchange of ideas is the absolute key to any hope for a mutual appreciation and respect for each other....regardless of our opinion.

So....to those of you who support government-subsidized universal health care.....give me a one-paragraph reason why we should have it. Boil it down to the basics.

And those of you who oppose it.....do the same only you need to present a justifiable alternative answer to the problem. It's not good enough to just bitch about socialized medicine. The status quo isn't working. What's your answer to solve the crisis?

I'd give you my response but my wife is so pissed off at me right now I need to log off. Thanks all.

 

[CH3NO2]

I have given my suggestions to why its a bad idea throughout the thread and have offered a few things that would help the current system and are being ignored under the Obama plan, like tort reform. I agree everyone here is having a civil conversation on the internet for once.

There doesn't need to be a 1000 page plan to make sure everyone in the country is covered. If its too complicated to read before you vote on it like our congress is willing to do, then its going to be to complicated to mandate, pay for and implement.

 

[jasonk282]

OK everyone. This thread is really one of the best threads I have been involved in in quite a while so I appreciate the viewpoints of everyone....the open and honest exchange of ideas is the absolute key to any hope for a mutual appreciation and respect for each other....regardless of our opinion.

So....to those of you who support government-subsidized universal health care.....give me a one-paragraph reason why we should have it. Boil it down to the basics.

And those of you who oppose it.....do the same only you need to present a justifiable alternative answer to the problem. It's not good enough to just bitch about socialized medicine. The status quo isn't working. What's your answer to solve the crisis?

I'd give you my response but my wife is so pissed off at me right now I need to log off. Thanks all.

who gets to dertermine what is a justifiable answer? :nanner:

 

[Jagger69]

who gets to dertermine what is a justifiable answer? :nanner:

I do.

Honestly, any answer is legitimate. I'm just looking for some summation here Jason since this thread has started to go in circles. I'd love to hear your one-paragraph persuasion to sell me and everyone else why government-subsidized universal health care is a bad idea and what we should therefore be doing as an alternative to the existing system which ain't fucking working.

By the way, if interested, my wife just left to go over to her sister's house because she is pissed off at me and it's all because of Freeones!!!! See what sacrifices I have to endure because of you guys???!!! How about a little love for the Jagster???

Oh....and, yes, I have been drinking. Where the fuck is Torre when I need him?

:glugglug:

 

[nylo]

For those that oppose National Health Care should read this;

20 Disturbing Facts on US Healthcare Everybody Should Know
http://www.bspcn.com/2009/04/16/20-disturbing-facts-on-us-healthcare-everybody-should-know/


Debunking Canadian health care myths
http://www.bspcn.com/2009/06/27/debunking-canadian-health-care-myths/

 

[meesterperfect]

For what, MP? GM's Colombian division? :1orglaugh

I'm not making light of you losing your job. But I've been in automotive for 15 years and this is the first I've heard of anyone (from GM or anywhere else) being fired by a U.S. Senator. Was your job related to driving him or his mistress around or something?

Seriously, how pray tell did a U.S. Senator fire you?

I'm sorry you guys, it was a sarcastic joke.
Just trying to make a point though.
This lady explains it if youve got a few minutes

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=19eK6ii9B3A

 

[saulscrotum]

There are flaws with the system the U.S. has now and the socialized healthcare. In any case, you're either paying for it with insurance or your taxes. It's really not free for anyone. In any case, what ever is done, something needs to be done to where the cost of healthcare is much less expensive as it is now. Because even if it is to be paid for with taxes, it needs to be the best care at the lowest price.

 

[Mrs Jolly]

Simple economics. US healthcare although "free market" is as bloated and uncompetitive as the former "big three." Like the big three used to, it has lots of friends in Washington. As a system, if it had to compete with those of comparable western democracies it would get pissed into the weeds. Recent experience has shown us that such bloating on such a scale will provide us with two models. One, where we overhaul now. Or two, where the companies involved have a complete financial meltdown which will need billioins of taxpayer money thrown at it, followed by a rush job overhaul. The US cannot throw an extra 8% of GDP at this compared to her competitors and remain in the game.

 

[CH3NO2]

Is there a correlation of better coverage and better pay for Doctors to the 8% in GDP? I am not saying all 8% of GDP but perhaps people get better coverage and are not denied care in America like other countries.

Just a thought

 

[Facetious]

So....to those of you who support government-subsidized universal health care.....give me a one-paragraph reason why we should have it. Boil it down to the basics.

And those of you who oppose it.....do the same only you need to present a justifiable alternative answer to the problem. It's not good enough to just bitch about socialized medicine. The status quo isn't working. What's your answer to solve the crisis?

I suppose that it would be asking too much for us to get responsible, face the music, be politically incorrect if need be and determine where and when the existing system began to fall apart before me make any new radical adjustments ?
Does anybody have the courage to do that ?

 

[calpoon]

If you think it's so great to live in the ghetto then why don't you move there? Those people that make less than 10 grand a year (plus the couple extra that robin hood in the white house is giving them) are living the high life aren't they? I probably hear that argument once a day, yet I don't see an influx of the oppressed wealthy giving up their high paying jobs and lifestyles to climb down below the poverty line. Why is that?

Bump.

methyl nitrite, I "don't give two shits" about how hard you or your family worked.

I'm still waiting for an answer to my question.

 

[Stacey]

So....to those of you who support government-subsidized universal health care.....give me a one-paragraph reason why we should have it. Boil it down to the basics.QUOTE]

I would like to start out by saying that I worked for a supplier for Chrysler. I am not going to get into whos president is worse than the other. The answer is obvious. I have an ear infection. I spent the better half of last week trying to see a doctor for some meds. Since I didn't have insurance, nobody would see me. Please save your comments about medical service can't be denied. Its bullshit. Anyway, I spent four hours sitting in a walk in clinic waiting for something that resembled medical attention. It wasn't because they were busy, I just didn't fit some profile for free medical attention (must be that I speak English) I called a clinic that works on a sliding income scale, but they couldn't see me because I am a "natural born citizen, and does not work for a landscaping company." Let me get to my point...

I want to hear from someone that can explain to me why I can pay my taxes, but can't get medical attention when I need it. Or more to the point, why people should not be allowed to have insurance. Every person that brings this conversation up in the face to face world that is against it, has insurance.

Sorry about going over the one paragraph request, but you can bill me for it after the first of the month

 

[Jagger69]

I suppose that it would be asking too much for us to get responsible, face the music, be politically incorrect if need be and determine where and when the existing system began to fall apart before me make any new radical adjustments ?
Does anybody have the courage to do that ?

This is the best post in this thread! To know what needs to be done right, you need to know what you did wrong. :thumbsup: Facetious!!!!

 

[Boothbabe]

To know what needs to be done right, you need to know what you did wrong.

That's easy to answer. Lobbying. To this day I'm still amazed lobbying hasn't been outlawed in your country. How can you expect a government to be for the people if big corporations can buy politicians. I would say it's the Achilles heel of your entire political system.

 

[Friday on my mind]

That's easy to answer. Lobbying. To this day I'm still amazed lobbying hasn't been outlawed in your country. How can you expect a government to be for the people if big corporations can buy politicians. I would say it's the Achilles heel of your entire political system.

It would take a constitutional amendment to do it is the problem.Lobbying (the spending of money to influence policy) has been found to be "free speech" and therfore protected by the 1st amendment.It really is one of the major reasons that our system is failing us.

 

[Jagger69]

That's easy to answer. Lobbying. To this day I'm still amazed lobbying hasn't been outlawed in your country. How can you expect a government to be for the people if big corporations can buy politicians. I would say it's the Achilles heel of your entire political system.

That's a great comment, BB. It's bribery, coercion, manipulation, whatever you want to call it. It should be outlawed.

I have another idea.....do away with multiple terms. When you run for office, you serve for one term only. Most (hell, all) of these fucking politicians are only interested in making sure they get re-elected instead of doing what is in the best interest of the constituency that they are paid to serve....we, the people. The longer they stay in office, the more corrupt they become. It's a huge reason things are so fucked up and the political system is inept.

Also, no Supreme Court justice should get to serve for life. What is this, the divine right of kings or something?

Hell, let's storm the fucking Bastille and burn this whole rotten structure down to the ashes that it so richly deserves to be! Vive le revolucion!!!

 

[CH3NO2]

It would take a constitutional amendment to do it is the problem.Lobbying (the spending of money to influence policy) has been found to be "free speech" and therfore protected by the 1st amendment.It really is one of the major reasons that our system is failing us.

Agreed, lobbyist and career politicians on both sides have destroyed this country. I mean that, both sides with D's and R's are equally responsible. One thing that needs to happen is term limits on Senators and Congressman.

I am sorry but Ted Kennedy needed to be gone YEARS ago. All he has done is line his own pockets along with the special interest groups that cater to him and cost taxpayers billions if not trillions. I am just using him as an example, there are plenty on each side I can use as example.

 

[CH3NO2]

That's a great comment, BB. It's bribery, coercion, manipulation, whatever you want to call it. It should be outlawed.

I have another idea.....do away with multiple terms. When you run for office, you serve for one term only. Most (hell, all) of these fucking politicians are only interested in making sure they get re-elected instead of doing what is in the best interest of the constituency that they are paid to serve....we, the people. The longer they stay in office, the more corrupt they become. It's a huge reason things are so fucked up and the political system is inept.

Also, no Supreme Court justice should get to serve for life. What is this, the divine right of kings or something?

Hell, let's storm the fucking Bastille and burn this whole rotten structure down to the ashes that it so richly deserves to be! Vive le revolucion!!!

+1 here here

 

[Friday on my mind]

Agreed, lobbyist and career politicians on both sides have destroyed this country. I mean that, both sides with D's and R's are equally responsible. One thing that needs to happen is term limits on Senators and Congressman.

I am sorry but Ted Kennedy needed to be gone YEARS ago. All he has done is line his own pockets along with the special interest groups that cater to him and cost taxpayers billions if not trillions. I am just using him as an example, there are plenty on each side I can use as example.

I think the idea of term limits is terrible!!! lol

First if majority agreed with you and Jagger (sorry jag lol) that people should be limited they can do it now.Just don't re-elect them.

2nd you can't pass a national term limits law (unconstitutional) states would have to do it individually.So lets say Texas limited there terms but my state NJ didn't.That would mean my reps had way more senority and power than the texas ones,works for me but maybe not Texas.:1orglaugh
Shit the noob from Texas can't even find the bathroom.:eek: It's amazing that politics is the one job where experience is seen as a detrement.

But lets imagine you got constitution changed and had it nationally.So a rep gets elected to the house and can only serve for example one term.Think about it he/she will not be worrying at all about having to get re-elected(you guys think thats good,I think its terrible).No they would be worrying about "what am I gonna do after this?".I need to make contacts for a good paying gig after this, thats what I care about not serving the interests of the people of my district as I can't run again, is what they would say to themselves.Vote for my bill says the oil company, banker etc lobbyist and you got a 1/2 million dollar a year job when your done in congress.They are much more corruptable now.

The solution is get the big bucks out of politics (publically funded elections).You want to own them you need to pay for them.As long as the wealthy vested (corporate almost exclusively) interests are the ones funding and paying for the elections they belong to them.Both parties are in that,but its so called conservatives/republicans(they represent the wealthy corporate interests much more) that are much more the party of those interests.

Until you do something about all that money just changing the names and faces in Washington won't help, in fact as I said I think it would be much worse even.

And if were going to amend the constitution thats the amnedment we need.A curb on the lobbying and money.

 

[Jagger69]

^
I didn't say to amend the constitution, FOMM. I said we should storm the Bastille!

:1orglaugh