Right-Wing Says You'll Die If Health Care Passes

[Facetious]

Re: Right-Wing Says You'll Die If Health Care Passes


Let's say, for the purpose of argument, that this health measure passes the Senate and the Federal government essentially confiscates & controls all entities related to health care , now, when the time comes for rationing, and there will be rationing, who is priority and who is expendable ?
Are all the guidelines in on that yet ? I think not !

Don't you proponents of univ. healthcare usually sit down and READ documents that you are asked to sign, or do you just sign it because ......... Sam said that "it's cool" ?





• Also - Anybody who uses a govt form of health care forfeits the right to file for malpractice damages, just ask an American Veteran !

Google "Sovereign Immunity" for details.

Wow ! What is the trial lawyer community going to do now ? :shocked:




• How many examples of poor govt performance do we need ?

What happened when the govt nationalized Flood Insurance ?
Do your own research, but let me leave you with this - isn't this govt insurance program in the hole for about 18 Billion Dollars ?

Only in government...

Only in government

 

[Red Spyder]

I just did a search on the Blue Cross/Blue Shield webpage
. PPO Select Choice (I-VIII)
Best Seller!
Network: BlueChoice or BlueCard Preferred Provider OrganizationLifetime Benefit: $5 Million
Office Visit Co-pay: $25Out-of-pocket Limit: Deductible plus $3,000

Deductible Rx Drug Coverage Monthly Premium 80% Coverage
$250 $10 Generic, $30 Preferred, $45 Non-Preferred $265.00
$250 $10 Generic, $30 Preferred, $45 Non-Preferred $236.00
$500 $10 Generic, $30 Preferred, $45 Non-Preferred $228.00
$500 $10 Generic, $30 Preferred, $45 Non-Preferred $199.00
$1,000 $10 Generic, $30 Preferred, $45 Non-Preferred $190.00
$1,000 $10 Generic, $30 Preferred, $45 Non-Preferred $161.00
$1,500 $10 Generic, $30 Preferred, $45 Non-Preferred $164.00
$1,500 $10 Generic, $30 Preferred, $45 Non-Preferred $135.00
$2,500 $10 Generic, $30 Preferred, $45 Non-Preferred $146.00
$2,500 $10 Generic, $30 Preferred, $45 Non-Preferred $117.00
$3,500 $10 Generic, $30 Preferred, $45 Non-Preferred $135.00
$3,500 $10 Generic, $30 Preferred, $45 Non-Preferred $106.00
$5,000 $10 Generic, $30 Preferred, $45 Non-Preferred $123.00
$5,000 $10 Generic, $30 Preferred, $45 Non-Preferred $94.00
$10,000 $10 Generic, $30 Preferred, $45 Non-Preferred $109.00
$10,000 $10 Generic, $30 Preferred, $45 Non-Preferred $80.00

I liked this one:
3. BlueEdge Individual HSA (IV-VI)
Network: BlueChoice or BlueCard Preferred Provider OrganizationLifetime Benefit: $5 Million
Office Visit Co-pay: Deductible and CoinsuranceOut-of-pocket Limit: $3,000
Deductible Rx Drug Coverage Monthly Premium 75% Coverage
$1,150 $10 Generic, $50 Preferred, $65 Non-Preferred $134.00
$1,150 $10 Generic, $50 Preferred, $65 Non-Preferred $105.00
$1,750 $10 Generic, $50 Preferred, $65 Non-Preferred $121.00
$1,750 $10 Generic, $50 Preferred, $65 Non-Preferred $92.00
$2,500 $10 Generic, $50 Preferred, $65 Non-Preferred $105.00
$2,500 $10 Generic, $50 Preferred, $65 Non-Preferred $76.00

A $76/month premium with a $2,500 deductible individual insurance policy, not that expensive for one person. Then if you want to insure your family there's also CHIPs for the kids. So if you're single, even $100 dollars a month for health insurance is not that bad.

 

[marquis2]

Re: Right-Wing Says You'll Die If Health Care Passes


Let's say, for the purpose of argument, that this health measure passes the Senate and the Federal government essentially confiscates & controls all entities related to health care , now, when the time comes for rationing, and there will be rationing, who is priority and who is expendable ?
Are all the guidelines in on that yet ? I think not !

Don't you proponents of univ. healthcare usually sit down and READ documents that you are asked to sign, or do you just sign it because ......... Sam said that "it's cool" ?





• Also - Anybody who uses a govt form of health care forfeits the right to file for malpractice damages, just ask an American Veteran !

Google "Sovereign Immunity" for details.

Wow ! What is the trial lawyer community going to do now ? :shocked:




• How many examples of poor govt performance do we need ?

What happened when the govt nationalized Flood Insurance ?
Do your own research, but let me leave you with this - isn't this govt insurance program in the hole for about 18 Billion Dollars ?

Only in government...

Only in government

There's rationing now, it's by price.
If you want a situation in which everybody immediately gets the best treatment it will use up most of the GDP.There's always rationing for services.

 

[titsrock]

From Jagger a couple of pages ago

So....to those of you who support government-subsidized universal health care.....give me a one-paragraph reason why we should have it. Boil it down to the basics.

Healthcare is a basic human right. Technology, Globalization, Free Market Capitalism and "Modernization" mean the world is a more dangerous place than it was in the Wig and Musket days before Capitalism and the rise of the Corporation. Healthcare should NOT BE PROFIT DRIVEN. That is our fundamental flaw. The easiest way for the U.S. to achieve efficient Universal Healthcare is to open up Medicare for all Citizens. Our Western Peer Nations all have far superior Healthcare systems and Patient Outcomes. All we have is a system meant to punish the sick and fleece the healthy. We deserve better.:thumbsup:

 

[Jagger69]

From Jagger a couple of pages ago


Healthcare is a basic human right. Technology, Globalization, Free Market Capitalism and "Modernization" mean the world is a more dangerous place than it was in the Wig and Musket days before Capitalism and the rise of the Corporation. Healthcare should NOT BE PROFIT DRIVEN. That is our fundamental flaw. The easiest way for the U.S. to achieve efficient Universal Healthcare is to open up Medicare for all Citizens. Our Western Peer Nations all have far superior Healthcare systems and Patient Outcomes. All we have is a system meant to punish the sick and fleece the healthy. We deserve better.:thumbsup:

:thumbsup:

The profit motive....that's my biggest gripe with the current system (but most certainly not the only one).

 

[CH3NO2]

Why is profit a 4 letter word? Why is it a bad thing?

 

[Friday on my mind]

Why is profit a 4 letter word? Why is it a bad thing?

Its not always a bad thing.But some things don't lend themselves well to it.Health care is one of those I think.The for profit model has failed us terribly and let costs get out of control.

 

[CH3NO2]

Sorry I dont see it that way...

 

[Friday on my mind]

Sorry I dont see it that way...

So you see nothing wrong at all with the current system?

 

[titsrock]

Sorry I dont see it that way...

Maybe you will be lucky then and avoid hospitals throughout your life. Good luck to you. :hatsoff:

 

[D-rock]

Why is profit a 4 letter word? Why is it a bad thing?

You mean other than the fact than that and the greed that always comes with it has pretty much eventually corrupted everything it touches since the beginning of humanity?.........

 

[Facial_King]

The more I'm seeing of some of these "grassroots" town-hall protests (aka "angry mobs yelling and demanding their way or the highway, regardless of what negligible %age of the constituency they comprise, and regardless of recent electoral outcomes"), the more I'm starting to think that what they mean is that if health care passes they're going to go out and kill people.

Has this been posted yet - more of the "grassroots" aspect exposed as utter BS:

http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/08/grassroots-protester-actually-gop-official.php?ref=fpa

 

[titsrock]

^
I think the protestor/tea party crowd have nothing left to do but to stage these public scream sessions and hope the nation will somehow become magically *fixed* in proper "conservative" ways. Like maybe they can scream at people and turn them into "real fiscal conservatives"?

The credibility of the protesters/tea party crowd has gone up in flames these past 8 years. Big tax cuts and Big War only led to Housing Bubble and Economic Crash.

I guess it's time to scream at someone other than themselves?

 

[CH3NO2]

People that yell and scream at elected officials lose all creditability with me no matter if I agree with what they are saying or not. Any kind of social change in policy must be done without violence.

 

[Facial_King]

I distinctly recall Dubya dismissing hundreds of thousands of anti-war demonstrators, marching on the streets across the U.S., as little more than "focus groups."

Anyone who agreed with Dubya then really has no right to complain at all at how the Obama White House approaches the tea-baggers or the town hall criers/knuckle-draggers.

 

[Facial_King]

People that yell and scream at elected officials lose all creditability with me no matter if I agree with what they are saying or not. Any kind of social change in policy must be done without violence.

I think you mean "credibility", and as much as I might disagree with these current protestor-whiners, it's important to note the important distinction between yelling and screaming (assuming it is without threats of violence; and not all of the current stuff meets that standard, unfortunately) and actual violence.

 

[CH3NO2]

yeah spell check owned me...

 

[Facial_King]

I distinctly recall Dubya dismissing hundreds of thousands of anti-war demonstrators, marching on the streets across the U.S., as little more than "focus groups."

Anyone who agreed with Dubya then really has no right to complain at all at how the Obama White House approaches the tea-baggers or the town hall criers/knuckle-draggers.

Sorry for my consec. posts here; I'll be takin' a rest here in a bit, but if you're interested in the "focus group" quote, see this:

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/02/23/w...ocus-groups-to-bush-the-crowd-was-a-blur.html

and then see this for a fun right-wing response to those war protests:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/861133/posts

So, using their approach, can we say that the right-wingers hate Obama more than "his" healthcare plan - assuming that Obama (and Congress) don't "flinch"??

 

[marquis2]

Why is profit a 4 letter word? Why is it a bad thing?

Profit is not in itself a bad thing.It after all provides employment and good living standards.Business is all about making a profit because without it it would die.
What is less good is the pursuit of profit above all else. Capitalism is held up by many posters as the ideal-and then they complain about outsourcing of their jobs to China.But outsourcing is to be expected, labour costs are lower so profits rise.Similarly the profit motive doesn't sit well with health care, it distorts it.The first consideration of a medical institution should be the welfare of the patient not the balance sheet.
Competition and the free market aren't really relevant here.How do you compete?The only really important statistic is the success rate of treatment.Clearly those establishments who can afford more can get better outcomes.Also those who pick and choose their patients can end up looking good.But most patients end up where they can afford to go or where their insurers decide.
Profits ultimately come from the customers.Medical treatment is expensive enough without paying shareholders a percentage too.

 

[Friday on my mind]

A very good editorial from my local paper here in central New Jersey.

http://www.mycentraljersey.com/article/20090807/OPINION06/908070301/-1/data

Time has come to change America's health care system

One night this week, Central Jersey congressman Rush Holt was in his office when an elderly couple called at about 10 p.m., expecting to leave a message.


Holt was there to answer the phone.
The couple apparently got their talking points from right-wing hate radio, as they railed about the government takeover of health care: Care will be rationed! Illegal immigrants will be covered! Granny will be told to die!
Holt asked them about their own medical coverage.
No problem, they said. They have Medicare.
In other words, socialism works, when you're on the receiving end.
Each year, the John F. Kennedy Foundation awards a Profile in Courage Award. I would nominate the first member of Congress who says, "Enough with socialism. Enough of the "government takeover' of health care for the elderly. Let's eliminate Medicare."
Eliminate Medicare? Why don't we?
Let's get rid of that failed experiment in socialized, single-payer, government-takeover of medicine for the elderly. If Granny can't take care of her brittle bones on her own dime, tough patooey. If the government won't pay for Granny's walker, perhaps Sean Hannity can host a telethon.
Of course, I would not expect any elected official to suggest we eliminate Medicare. Do so and the dittohead seasoned citizens would make the riots of the 1960s seem like sack races at a Sunday School picnic. (As I creep toward Medicare, I'd be sharpening my pitchfork.)
Who is feeding the people of Fox News and the late night callers to Rush Holt's office their talking points?
My first guess would be the heads of Big Insurance. Rather than have some "government bureaucrat" make decisions regarding your health care, proponents of the status quo would prefer it be done by bean counters at Big Insurance, whose primary concern is the health of their portfolio, and wealth of their CEO.
According to Healthreformwatch.com, a blog affiliated with the Seton Hall School of Law, Health Law and Public Policy, Ronald Williams, the CEO of Aetna had a compensation package of $24,300,122 in 2008.
(2 of 2)
"That's $467,309.85 per week. That's a house. Maybe not a house that Mr. Williams would live in, but a house nonetheless. The man makes a house a week," it was noted on the blog.


The CEO of Cigna had a package of $12,236,740. He only made a bungalow a week.
Do you think these CEOs want Obamacare's "public option" that would siphon customers and create fresh competition?
Not everyone attends Princeton University. Many of us took the "public option" and got a Rutgers degree. We travel on the Interstate Highway System, rely on the Federal Aviation Administration to land our planes, call uniformed government officers when someone's messing with our screen door, rely on the government to assign radio frequencies and mandate labels on medicine jars, and borrow books from the free public library.
Holt confesses the rush of the moment allowed for some flaws in the bailout legislation, but it did salvage the economy.
Compared to other industrial Western nations, said Holt, "We live sicker, die earlier and pay more."
It needs fixing.



Here here!:thumbsup: