Relax. Our firearms are still safe from being seized.

[marquis2]

Well at least some of your brothers and sisters are still of sound stock:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qGVAQOUi6ec

This is exactly what we don't want in America. And yet, you self-righteously criticize us as crazies.

I wonder what statistics there are about gun crimes in England prior to bans and after. That would be interesting.

No way did I criticise you as crazies or anything else.I criticised the delusion you have that firearms render you safer.
Certainly we have our problems here but in general firearms aren't one of them. There was an outcry about "gun crime" some time ago, the numbers involved were in single figures which gives some sort of perspective. If there is an armed criminal at large some of the police involved will be permitted to draw weapons, they must be specially trained and account for every round.
I'm not saying that there aren't times when a gun may save the day but as they say, hard cases make bad law.There will be many other cases where the gun will make things worse.
Effectively we've had a ban since around 1920 since when all firearms are supposed to be licensed and kept in a secure safe.These safes are inspected regularly by the police and nobody except the licence holder must have access to the key.Recently handguns have been totally forbidden.I can't therefore give figures for before or after the ban, they rise and fall from year to year but a single gang war can distort the figures.As you can imagine the ban really only affected the legal owners. Although even these have been known to use them wrongly I doubt if the ban had much effect on gun crime.The five year mandatory jail sentence for possession of an illegal firearm may have some effect though.

 

[Philbert]

The UK has 60 million people and 60 gun deaths a year.The US has 300 million and 30 000 gun deaths a year.That's some discrepancy.
The society I live in just doesn't accept the use of deadly force to protect property.Shoot a burglar dead other than in a case of genuine self defence (your life must be in great and imminent actual danger) and you are going to be charged with murder or at least manslaughter.That's how it should be , the jury and judge can look at the circumstances in detail and arrive at a decision.Usually it's jail.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/august/22/newsid_2500000/2500697.stm

The Martin case was one in which a large proportion of the public felt he had been badly treated but the jury had gone through everything and still found him guilty.

There are of course terrible cases of criminals entering homes and doing great harm to people but this isn't the general expectation of the public.

I've already mentioned that our police prefer not to be armed on duty.They do not consider or find t necessary in the overwhelming majority of cases even though they are dealing with criminals on a daily basis.If they don't need arms neither do I.They meet a lot more bad guys than I do.

You are selectively using incorrect numbers to tell a dishonest story...gun deaths are less than 20,000 if suicides are not included...and a gun is not needed to commit suicide, it's just easier for some.
I posted accurate figures earlier, and gave a source. You, I guess, are making this crap up. Tsk tsk, not very grown-up...

 

[Mr. Daystar]

Also, one other note about this thread -- the Obama administration has no intention of doing any gun control at all and they have gone on record and said so repeatedly.

The only people who kick and scream about this as some kind of problem are idiot hard-core right wingers who hate Obama so much that they will literally make up and spread any bullshit lie about him in hopes that the gullible out there will believe it, i.e. the "birthers" who say he was born in Africa, and those who say he's a socialist trying to spread "Marxism" in the U.S.

It's all complete and utter lies and this whole gun thing is a perfect case in point about that.

A lot of politicians, say a lot of things...that doesn't mean they're telling the truth. In fact, most of them have one thing in common....they'll lie through their teeth to get what they want, and when they have it, they'll stick a knife in your back. Take a look at Obama's pre-presidential voting record on firearms issues...in an area that has one of the highest crime rates anywhere, and tell me he doesn't want to see innocent law abiding people at the mercy of the predators, and unable to defend themselves, their homes, and their loved ones. He even voted against a proposed "castle law" when he was a Senator. So even if you do manage to defend your home, the filthy trash can sue you, or if you rid society of his mangy ass...his family can file civil suite....real friend of the people.

The fact is, hard core right wingers know just how lucky they are to have the current idiot at the helm...because in case you haven't noticed, runners up #1, and #2, are about a thousand times worse. #1 (Biden), being the architect of the original assault weapons ban, in 1996, under Clinton, and #2 (Pelosi), just being a plan old whack job, that would love to see all private ownership abolished.

 

[Trident1]

No way did I criticise you as crazies or anything else.I criticised the delusion you have that firearms render you safer.
.

Not a delusion it's reality. Anyone breaking into your home has no intention of having buttered scones and tea mate.

 

[Friday on my mind]

Not a delusion it's reality. Anyone breaking into your home has no intention of having buttered scones and tea mate.

Actually it is a delusion.Even as an american who supports the 2nd amendment the idea that a lot of guns makes us safer on a day to day basis just does not hold up to any scrutiny.Most shootings in the US are not done by criminals during a crime or by people defending themselves from the same.They are done by so-called up till then law abiding citizens in heat of the moment arguements who have access to a handy gun.And over 1/2 of all suicides are with a gun.Yes most law abiding citizens who own and use guns do so responsibly but their will always be those who lose control as I mentioned during arguments (many times alcohol is involved) and use them to kill people they know or family members or to commit suicide.Guns make such things easier to do and IMO their is no denying that.

 

[Hot Mega]

Actually it is a delusion.Even as an american who supports the 2nd amendment the idea that a lot of guns makes us safer on a day to day basis just does not hold up to any scrutiny.Most shootings in the US are not done by criminals during a crime or by people defending themselves from the same.They are done by so-called up till then law abiding citizens in heat of the moment arguements who have access to a handy gun.And over 1/2 of all suicides are with a gun.Yes most law abiding citizens who own and use guns do so responsibly but their will always be those who lose control as I mentioned during arguments (many times alcohol is involved) and use them to kill people they know or family members or to commit suicide.Guns make such things easier to do and IMO their is no denying that.

That's the mistake FOMM....the argument isn't for them making us as some collective safer. A firearm potentially makes a person safer in specific circumstances where there is the potential for them to be victimized.

To suggest a firearm or any other weapon has no bearing on the one's subjectivity to victimization undercuts the whole logic of a knee to the groin, pepper spray, stun gun, etc. Pretty illogical conclusions IMO.

 

[BlueBalls]

Oh thank god.

I was worried there for a second.

 

[Bloodshot Scott]

No way did I criticise you as crazies or anything else.I criticised the delusion you have that firearms render you safer.
Certainly we have our problems here but in general firearms aren't one of them. There was an outcry about "gun crime" some time ago, the numbers involved were in single figures which gives some sort of perspective. If there is an armed criminal at large some of the police involved will be permitted to draw weapons, they must be specially trained and account for every round.
I'm not saying that there aren't times when a gun may save the day but as they say, hard cases make bad law.There will be many other cases where the gun will make things worse.
Effectively we've had a ban since around 1920 since when all firearms are supposed to be licensed and kept in a secure safe.These safes are inspected regularly by the police and nobody except the licence holder must have access to the key.Recently handguns have been totally forbidden.I can't therefore give figures for before or after the ban, they rise and fall from year to year but a single gang war can distort the figures.As you can imagine the ban really only affected the legal owners. Although even these have been known to use them wrongly I doubt if the ban had much effect on gun crime.The five year mandatory jail sentence for possession of an illegal firearm may have some effect though.

Do you support the career criminal's (in the video I provided) right to SUE the guy who shot his waste-of-space ass, on the taxpayer's dollar? If this is the logic in England, count me out from ever visitng and spending my dollars there.

 

[mrtrebus]

Do you support the career criminal's (in the video I provided) right to SUE the guy who shot his waste-of-space ass, on the taxpayer's dollar? If this is the logic in England, count me out from ever visitng and spending my dollars there.

artysml:

 

[Philbert]

artysml:

Really...BloodscotScott...leave the asylum to the inmates...we've got the good dentists.
I do like the Scotts, Welsh, and the Irish, imagine that...true characters.
mrtrebus, MrsJolly, etc...leave'em there.
Although I'd like to see them spout some of their Anti-gun trash to a few of da boys in da hood...I'd pay to see that!
I've met a few hardcore Brits...them I liked.
Not all are like the Brits who twin the UberLibs we have here...

 

[Bloodshot Scott]

artysml:

I respect your country a great deal, but it took our form of democracy for you guys to get with the program to get out of the medieval age, remember. We were light years ahead of you, and still are.

 

[mrtrebus]

Really...BloodscotScott...leave the asylum to the inmates...we've got the good dentists.
I do like the Scotts, Welsh, and the Irish, imagine that...true characters.
mrtrebus, MrsJolly, etc...leave'em there.
Although I'd like to see them spout some of their Anti-gun trash to a few of da boys in da hood...I'd pay to see that!
I've met a few hardcore Brits...them I liked.
Not all are like the Brits who twin the UberLibs we have here...

Why on gods green earth would one want to talk to a few of da boys in da hood, whoever da boys are & wherever da hood is?
Oh well, I commend you for liking everyone in Scotland, Walesland & Ireland. . .

 

[Bloodshot Scott]

Why on gods green earth would one want to talk to a few of da boys in da hood, whoever da boys are & wherever da hood is?
Oh well, I commend you for liking everyone in Scotland, Walesland & Ireland. . .

Oh trust me, you have no idea. Google - East Los Angeles, Cabrini Green, Gary IN, Detroit, Philadelphia.

 

[mrtrebus]

Oh trust me, you have no idea. Google - East Los Angeles, Cabrini Green, Gary IN, Detroit, Philadelphia.

No thanks, I'd rather not. :wave2:

 

[Trident1]

Friday[/URL][/B] on my mind, post: 4218878, member: 44516"]Actually it is a delusion.

Not for me.


Besides when the zombies come............I'm prepared.

 

[Philbert]

Not for me.


Besides when the zombies come............I'm prepared.

Hey...I saw Zombieland...that's my idea of GunControl...hit what you aim at!:thumbsup:

 

[Trident1]

Hey...I saw Zombieland...that's my idea of GunControl...hit what you aim at!:thumbsup:

Practice practice practice.

 

[bearwresler]

my dad was friends with a guy that ouned a gun store here in Canada and he was robed,the robbers killed him just so they could get a couple of hand guns, they did get caught but they are both out of jail allready
i beleave that they should never have got ous of that store alive.

 

[marquis2]

I respect your country a great deal, but it took our form of democracy for you guys to get with the program to get out of the medieval age, remember. We were light years ahead of you, and still are.

Yes, you were years ahead of us in abolishing slavery weren't you?And your liberal alcohol laws are still the envy of the Western world.

Regarding being safe by having a gun, this reminds me of when I was teaching chess to my son.He was so involved in what HE was going to do he overlooked what I was doing.Fine, so you have a gun and you know what you are going to do.The bad guy may though have other plans.It only works when you have a gun and he doesn't.

To another poster, why leave suicides out of it? Suicide is quite often attempted as an impulse and with many methods the victim can and does change his mind after a while.

As for the right of the burglar to sue when he has been injured,I'm sure that right exists in the US too.Whether it succeeds is another story.
This is European law rather than British.A householder has a duty of care to anybody entering his premises or land to ensure that they are not at risk.The broken glass that used to be placed on top of walls has all gone.My own view is that uninvited people come at their own risk but that's not the law.

 

[Bloodshot Scott]

Yes, you were years ahead of us in abolishing slavery weren't you?And your liberal alcohol laws are still the envy of the Western world.

Regarding being safe by having a gun, this reminds me of when I was teaching chess to my son.He was so involved in what HE was going to do he overlooked what I was doing.Fine, so you have a gun and you know what you are going to do.The bad guy may though have other plans.It only works when you have a gun and he doesn't.

To another poster, why leave suicides out of it? Suicide is quite often attempted as an impulse and with many methods the victim can and does change his mind after a while.

As for the right of the burglar to sue when he has been injured,I'm sure that right exists in the US too.Whether it succeeds is another story.
This is European law rather than British.A householder has a duty of care to anybody entering his premises or land to ensure that they are not at risk.The broken glass that used to be placed on top of walls has all gone.My own view is that uninvited people come at their own risk but that's not the law.

Slavery was during a time when the country was essentially two countries, and as for me, my ancestors weren't even here. And...I live in the north, in a state that never once partook in slavery. Not once - other than sending their boys to die to free the slaves. And yet we have one of the best states in the Union. Ironic, isn't it. Slavery...yeah it created America... Another load of bollocks the lemmings have lapped up.

And, my friend, I'll choose to not have to wonder if some scumbag does or does not have a lethal weapon. As a law-abiding citizen, it is my right, and moreover the duty of me in a neighborhood which was once good, to see to it that my family, friends and neighbors are free from any would-be perps.

And the last part of you paragraph is a bit of a ramble. :dunno: In fact yes, the criminal element do use the taxpayers dollars to work the system in the US, just like yours. That is correct. I just do not have any clue how backward the men in your country have become (NOT ALL, of course) - brainwashed, no less- to actually have had your cranium so diluted that you actually would find a man at fault for popping two scum - career criminals, no less - to the point you actually think he is the devil himself.

There was a similar case here in the states where two fuckers got popped for trying to rob folks. The media had a field day with that one, and even had the audacity to label the guy "racist," figure that. And who showed up to help the career crooks? The Reverend himself, Al Sharpton. Yeah, what a class act that is!

I'm trying to remain civil here, so apologies if my post sounds heated. :wave2: