Relax. Our firearms are still safe from being seized.

[marquis2]

Slavery was during a time when the country was essentially two countries, and as for me, my ancestors weren't even here. And...I live in the north, in a state that never once partook in slavery. Not once - other than sending their boys to die to free the slaves. And yet we have one of the best states in the Union. Ironic, isn't it. Slavery...yeah it created America... Another load of bollocks the lemmings have lapped up.

And, my friend, I'll choose to not have to wonder if some scumbag does or does not have a lethal weapon. As a law-abiding citizen, it is my right, and moreover the duty of me in a neighborhood which was once good, to see to it that my family, friends and neighbors are free from any would-be perps.

And the last part of you paragraph is a bit of a ramble. :dunno: In fact yes, the criminal element do use the taxpayers dollars to work the system in the US, just like yours. That is correct. I just do not have any clue how backward the men in your country have become (NOT ALL, of course) - brainwashed, no less- to actually have had your cranium so diluted that you actually would find a man at fault for popping two scum - career criminals, no less - to the point you actually think he is the devil himself.

There was a similar case here in the states where two fuckers got popped for trying to rob folks. The media had a field day with that one, and even had the audacity to label the guy "racist," figure that. And who showed up to help the career crooks? The Reverend himself, Al Sharpton. Yeah, what a class act that is!

I'm trying to remain civil here, so apologies if my post sounds heated. :wave2:

The Founding Fathers included a lot of slave owners including George Washington.Actually there has never been legal slavery in England , only in the colonies (see the Mansfield case 1772)
As to being brainwashed, I see the signs of this in the arguments of the gun lobby.This though isn't surprising as it's the culture people grow up in that shapes their outlook.What you see as backward I see as civilised.We don't value posessions here more highly than life and if you kill anyone you will be thoroughly scrutinised as to whether it was justified ,avoidable or excessive.Of course being legal doesn't make something right and an illegal act isn't always wrong.Juries are on the whole just ordinary people who weigh up the facts and decide for themselves.I was surprised by the "guilty" verdict in the Martin case , in fact I was surprised that the act was considered to be murder because there was no premeditation.Obviously the police and jury knew something I don't.
We come from different places and with different experiences.I am happy to live in an unarmed state, you like your guns.So be it.

 

[Hot Mega]

We come from different places and with different experiences.I am happy to live in an unarmed state, you like your guns.So be it.

Why do you keep harping on the valuing of possessions over life angle? There are many examples where simple robbery can escalate into assaults or worse for a variety of reasons. Certainly criminals don't mind taking life over property no matter the means of accomplishing it.

There is maybe one US jurisdiction I know of, Louisiana (I believe) where it is justifiable to defend property with force. That's aside from the quite understandable desire of bringing harm to someone who has stolen what you've worked hard to acquire...but that's not usually defensible in court.

What IS defensible is the notion of an innocent person who has their home invaded, feeling violated and threatened then defending themselves against the threat of being further victimized by way of physical harm.

But your last statement round-abouts to the bottom line. If you don't like firearms, don't think they're safe or whatever...don't own them. Further, why should you care who does in imposing your standard of belief on them??

Pretty arrogant and paternalistic don't you think?

 

[marquis2]

If you are genuinely feeling that your life or safety is under serious threat and there is no ther way then you can lawfully take any action necessary.This has got to be a reasoned assessment, the mere fact that an intruder is present is no evidence of a physical threat on its own.And criminals often do mind taking life over property , most intruders are there for the gain and have no intention of causing bodily harm.It's bad business to injure a householder although may well do so to get away.
You Miss my point.If you don't like firearms (and I quite enjoyed using them in the armed forces but see no possible need for them in everyday life) you can't avoid them by not owning them if lots of other people have them.As I say, it's not the guns YOU have it's the ones that could be used against you that are the problem.

It certainly isn't arrogant or paternalistic to say we should agree to differ because of our different experiences.

 

[Hot Mega]

If you are genuinely feeling that your life or safety is under serious threat and there is no ther way then you can lawfully take any action necessary.This has got to be a reasoned assessment, the mere fact that an intruder is present is no evidence of a physical threat on its own.And criminals often do mind taking life over property , most intruders are there for the gain and have no intention of causing bodily harm.It's bad business to injure a householder although may well do so to get away.
You Miss my point.If you don't like firearms (and I quite enjoyed using them in the armed forces but see no possible need for them in everyday life) you can't avoid them by not owning them if lots of other people have them.As I say, it's not the guns YOU have it's the ones that could be used against you that are the problem.

It certainly isn't arrogant or paternalistic to say we should agree to differ because of our different experiences.

Not sure what fantasy world you live in but it most certainly isn't a real one. I'm sure a reasoned assessment will go over well with your wife as she lay there in front of you getting raped and tortured.

Criminals kill robbery victims for allot of reasons. The number one reason is not to leave a testifying witness. Will the average thief avoid situations that involve confronting a homeowner. Probably so, but I'm not going to be the one banking on getting the average thief.

If they simply flee after having discovered you're there then you don't have the right to use force as you are in no danger. But until they successfully say whoops, wrong house you have no idea what they're capable of. The last thing that will be happening by the average person is a "reasoned assessment".

You argue the point of the "gun" that can be used against you...Let's look at it this way; in the case where a criminal with malicious intent happens upon a potential victim ...they don't need a "gun". Some of the most gruesome crimes in US history didn't involve a firearm.

If it were an assailant with a knife, bat, brick or whatever...I would prefer the victim have a firearm.

 

[LaLiLuLeLohan]

There is maybe one US jurisdiction I know of, Louisiana (I believe) where it is justifiable to defend property with force. That's aside from the quite understandable desire of bringing harm to someone who has stolen what you've worked hard to acquire...but that's not usually defensible in court.

There's actually a few states. Any state that has the Castle Doctrine or a form of it. Florida has it. Texas as well. There are others, but I'm too lazy to look it up.

Castle Doctrine is not so much about defending property with deadly force, but allowing you to determine the risk of an intruder or an attack without having to ask yourself what a district attorney would say.

Anyway, what's funny to me is the idea that we're supposed to find somebody with the audacity to break into our home in order to take our shit and we're to immediately suppose they are both rational and have a regard for our well being.

 

[Hot Mega]

There's actually a few states. Any state that has the Castle Doctrine or a form of it. Florida has it. Texas as well. There are others, but I'm too lazy to look it up.

Castle Doctrine is not so much about defending property with deadly force, but allowing you to determine the risk of an intruder or an attack without having to ask yourself what a district attorney would say.

Anyway, what's funny to me is the idea that we're supposed to find somebody with the audacity to break into our home in order to take our shit and we're to immediately suppose they are both rational and have a regard for our well being.

Most states have a version of the "Castle Doctrine" and it's a small minority that don't. That merely amounts to defending yourself with force if you feel threatened by an intruder...irrespective of what you consider your "castle" (car, boat, home, etc.).

I thought it was Louisiana which had broader language for defending property...I could be wrong..maybe it's Texas.

 

[LaLiLuLeLohan]

Most states have a version of the "Castle Doctrine" and it's a small minority that don't. That merely amounts to defending yourself with force if you feel threatened by an intruder...irrespective of what you consider your "castle" (car, boat, home, etc.).

I thought it was Louisiana which had broader language for defending property...I could be wrong..maybe it's Texas.

The broader language thing suggest Texas, but it might be both states. Joe Horn shot two men, while they were fleeing, after breaking into his neighbors' home. He was never charged with a crime because, in Texas, that's allowed so long as the neighbor requested your vigilance.

I believe that Texas law still allows you to shoot a cop if he is arresting you for a crime you did not commit. But that might have changed after the Horn case put Texas laws into the national discussion.

 

[Peashooter]

If you own a firearm: be responsible with it! It's not a toy!

Also, buy knives, learn how to effectively use them. They can be better in some cases than a firearm. :hatsoff:

Exactly. I grew up with firearms and both of my children already know how to shoot. I keep my firearms locked up until I take my revolver out at bedtime, and I actually don't allow toy guns in my home. They look realistic (sometimes), and some children do not know how to distinguish a real firearm from a toy one. One of the worst things kids can do is think that it's ok to point a "toy" gun at someone or have one pointed at them. If they're at someone else's house, where firearms may not be secure, they may accidentally point a real one at each other and that's when horrible accidents can occur. Firearm enthusiasts need to be responsible, or they themselves may be the ones that cause the rest of us to lose our rights.

And I agree about the knives. I'm currently looking for a good knife, been checking out Busse and Strider. You may run out of ammo, have a jam, etc. and need a quick backup plan.

 

[Will E Worm]

If you don't like firearms stay away from them. Have nothing to do with them. It's been said over and over and over. I don't see why people want to take something away from someone else all because they don't like it. I hate a lot of things but I am not pushing for a ban and strip it away from the people who like it.

:hatsoff:

From our cold, dead hands! :ak47:

 

[Hot Mega]

I believe that Texas law still allows you to shoot a cop if he is arresting you for a crime you did not commit. But that might have changed after the Horn case put Texas laws into the national discussion.

I'm lazy...show me that one. That is simply the stupidest fucking thing I've heard of in a modern society. That's what we have courts, judges and juries for.

 

[Will E Worm]

And that's why you're not American.

:hatsoff:

Guns are unnecessary today. It ain't the 1800s pioneer days where there were no police and where animals and "natives" were real threats to people.

Liberals are the unnecessary element in today's society.

This is America and as Bloodshot Scott put it, "And that's why you're not American." :tongue:

A true American wants freedom and those who would take that freedom away can leave America.

 

[Hot Mega]

Liberals are the unnecessary element in today's society.

This is America and as Bloodshot Scott put it, "And that's why you're not American." :tongue:

A true American wants freedom and those who would take that freedom away can leave America.

Second stupidest thing I've heard. The country was founded on the basis of liberal ideals and principles. It is liberalism in the true sense of the ideology that is at the heart of the concept of the right to defend one's self with force.

Don't bother looking for a response Will E. I'm use to you debating without a point or bullets as it were.

 

[Will E Worm]

Second stupidest thing I've heard. The country was founded on the basis of liberal ideals and principles. It is liberalism in the true sense of the ideology that is at the heart of the concept of the right to defend one's self with force.

Liberals just need to relax and deal with it. :tongue:

 

[Kingfisher]

Sure the firearms are going to be fine. It's the bullets I'm worried about now. Commie-fornia has passed a bill. AB-962. A ammo restriction law. Goes into effect next Feburary.
No more ordering ammo off the internet, limits on how much you can buy in stores, and big brother watching you when you do buy them.

That Nazi idiot bastard Schwarzenegger signed off on it. And he's a traitor. Thankfully he's getting fired soon, but the damage is done unless it gets repealed.

 

[Peashooter]

Sure the firearms are going to be fine. It's the bullets I'm worried about now. Commie-fornia has passed a bill. AB-962. A ammo restriction law. Goes into effect next Feburary.
No more ordering ammo off the internet, limits on how much you can buy in stores, and big brother watching you when you do buy them.

That Nazi idiot bastard Schwarzenegger signed off on it. And he's a traitor. Thankfully he's getting fired soon, but the damage is done unless it gets repealed.

That's crazy, I hadn't heard about that. I knew I should have bought some reloading equipment and a shit load of supplies. Ammo has actually been dropping in price here (KY), but it's still scarce.

 

[LaLiLuLeLohan]

I'm lazy...show me that one. That is simply the stupidest fucking thing I've heard of in a modern society. That's what we have courts, judges and juries for.

No, the law allows shooting a cop during the arrest, so long as it's a false arrest. As I remember, it was an old law dating back from the cattle era and was never amended due to its obscurity. I'm guessing it was originally enacted to counter abuse from law enforcement back then.

I'm trying to find the law's exact language, but google isn't helping much.

 

[LaLiLuLeLohan]

Sure the firearms are going to be fine. It's the bullets I'm worried about now. Commie-fornia has passed a bill. AB-962. A ammo restriction law. Goes into effect next Feburary.
No more ordering ammo off the internet, limits on how much you can buy in stores, and big brother watching you when you do buy them.

That Nazi idiot bastard Schwarzenegger signed off on it. And he's a traitor. Thankfully he's getting fired soon, but the damage is done unless it gets repealed.

Whatever happened to microstamping in Kalifornia? Didn't that pass, only to be proven impossible?

 

[Lucky7000]

I don't worry about Obama much... I worry about everyone else. Here in NY not too long ago an extremely intrusive gun control package was passed, and in plenty localities across the nation and within the federal government there are plenty who would jump at the first chance they get to do... something. Anything. Though it's getting harder and harder as it proves unpopular, not to mention with the Heller ruling.

As with all our rights, we must remain ever vigilant. Never assume for a minute that anything is safe or guaranteed, never take anything for granted. When people take any fundamental aspect of society for granted, that's when things start going downhill fast.

 

[Kingfisher]

Whatever happened to microstamping in Kalifornia? Didn't that pass, only to be proven impossible?

Seems they can't get the technology to work right. But they're still trying to get it passed.
When you really think about it, you have a small "punch" next to the firing pin, which will "stamp" the bottom of the brass casing. You need a fair amount of pressure, and not all casing at the same. Like wolf ammo. Which is steel with a coating.
All I would do is disassemble the upper, and file off the tip of the stamp. That gets rid of that technology in about 10 minutes.

As for ammo, this is how stupid this is. I can go to three different next door states and buy as much ammo as I want, money permiting. This is supposed to "stop the gang members" from buying ammo. Politicians clearly have not removed their collective heads from their own asses because when was the last time you saw a gang member ordering handgun ammo off the internet.

Plus this anti-handgun ammo crap, covers .22lr as well. Because that round is used in rifles and handguns. Stupid! Stupid! Stupid!
All this is, is one limpdick lawyer who wants to get his name on the books to further his career and exploited a hole, instead of his boyfriends.

 

[LaLiLuLeLohan]

Seems they can't get the technology to work right. But they're still trying to get it passed.
When you really think about it, you have a small "punch" next to the firing pin, which will "stamp" the bottom of the brass casing. You need a fair amount of pressure, and not all casing at the same. Like wolf ammo. Which is steel with a coating.
All I would do is disassemble the upper, and file off the tip of the stamp. That gets rid of that technology in about 10 minutes.

As for ammo, this is how stupid this is. I can go to three different next door states and buy as much ammo as I want, money permiting. This is supposed to "stop the gang members" from buying ammo. Politicians clearly have not removed their collective heads from their own asses because when was the last time you saw a gang member ordering handgun ammo off the internet.

Plus this anti-handgun ammo crap, covers .22lr as well. Because that round is used in rifles and handguns. Stupid! Stupid! Stupid!
All this is, is one limpdick lawyer who wants to get his name on the books to further his career and exploited a hole, instead of his boyfriends.

Yeah, I don't know any state law that forbids selling ammo, in store, to somebody from another state. So Cali's broke and is handing revenue to places like Nevada? Brilliant.

Not only is it completely ineffective, but it's gonna create a whole new illegal industry: ammo trafficking.

Cali laws seem to embody the Clinton AW Ban. Just a bunch of artificial bullshit to make Liberals feel a bit safer.