What football clubs do you people support?

[sonny forelli]

So Sven tried the players that Sutty mentioned and they drew 1-1 with Japan, it might only be a warm up but things are looking bad. About what you said with Gerrard and Lampard i could'nt agree with that more, England started off alright for the first 30 minutes then just lost out to Japan in every form. Hey Terri, love your work, definatley in the top three of my fav pornstars , even if you do think the Dutch will win euro 2004. LMAO.

that is bullshit

 

[Sutty]

Sonny, there's no point arguing with B23k. It's obvious he knows more about football than any single person on this planet. In fact I don't know why he hasn't applied for the Liverpool or Chelsea jobs.

 

[b23k]

I don't see how Sven could pick Richard Wright if he can't even get a game at his club.

Nicky Butt has been giving the chance throughout this season so why should'nt Wright be given the chance?. Beckham is also a quality player capable of lasting 90 minutes and could potentially be one of the greats as could Gerrard (my opinion). B23k it said that Taylor has taken the u21 job and he's signed a new young player from Preston.

That's true, but likewise I don't think Butt should be in England's starting line up for the same reasons.

I didn't say Beckham wasn't a quality player or that he can't last 90 mins.....I said he isn't a no 10, he's not a playmaker, his contribution from the middle of the park is not so great that he needs to be moved there.

Gerard and Lampard would do very well as a central pairing in the middle, with Beckham on the right. Instead England choose to play Gerard out of position, curb Lampard's natural attacking instincts, and push Beckham inside for no special reason.

That all seems very odd, if you want to have a successful team, its common sense that you play players in position's that they have had success in.

 

[b23k]

Sonny, there's no point arguing with B23k. It's obvious he knows more about football than any single person on this planet.

No Sutty don't be so sensitive. I know my football, am willing to give my opinions and back them up with some evidence for my thoughts.

If you are either intimidated by that, or are too insecure to give your own opinions for fear of being proved right or wrong.....thats really your fucking problem.

I'm happy to discuss football with people like Durty, who are willing to offer their own view and also take in a different opinion.

People like yourself, who become offended and defensive when someone expresses some knowledge or opinion on a matter, that you may or may not agree with.........I can do without.

I'll continue to say what i like........and you can continue to sit on the fence.

 

[b23k]

what fuck does that mean in english

It means you're a fucking prick, who can only come up with irrelevant comments like "fuck the germans", "that is bullshit", "what fuck does that mean in english"

Oh and for the last time, to see if it gets through your head "BECKHAM IS NOT A PLAYMAKER".......get it?

Nah, you probably don't.

 

[sonny forelli]

YOURE THE FUCKING PRICK b32K, talking bullshit

 

[Sutty]

But you see B23k, you are never wrong, that is your problem. When people give their opinion, you shove it right back in their face. That was my point, It's as if you KNOW EVERYTHING.
I will always give my opinion on a subject, but never act as if i know it all or know what is going to happen, and when you say i sit on the fence, well that's your opinion but i certainly won't get any abuse when any of my predictions go wrong.

 

[sonny forelli]

YOURE THE FUCKING PRICK b32K, talking bullshit

yes BECKMAN IS A PLAYERMAKER HE HAS DONE IT IN THE PAST FOR CLUB ANS COUNTRY

 

[sonny forelli]

b23k have you ever seen beckham play?

 

[sonny forelli]

hey b23k i can say what fuck i like, so fuck you

 

[sonny forelli]

c,mon england

 

[b23k]

But you see B23k, you are never wrong, that is your problem. When people give their opinion, you shove it right back in their face. That was my point, It's as if you KNOW EVERYTHING.
I will always give my opinion on a subject, but never act as if i know it all or know what is going to happen, and when you say i sit on the fence, well that's your opinion but i certainly won't get any abuse when any of my predictions go wrong.

"I'm never wrong" its not my problem, if it was a problem i wouldn't be successful at what i do.

Also, I haven't said anything about "right" or "wrong" all i do is give my views and why i think them....if i am proved "right" then so be it, if i am proved "wrong" then so be it.......i really don't give a shit.

This is how i discuss football with my friends, thats how i'm discussing football here. When someone gets something badly wrong they get some banter thrown at them, its part of the fun.

If you were upset that i don't think England will win Euro 2004, tough shit. England have never been to a major football final in my lifetime.....so why should i give them the prestige that you would like me to give them, when they have never done anything to warrant it?

And as for your reaction to my banter with the Brasilians on here, its quite clear you an "outsider" to the subject were the only one "upset" "annoyed" "frustrated" by it, whatever word you wish to use.......cos as you can see the likes of darkman who i have had some banter with before, understands that the rivalry is part in jest and part serious.

Of course an Argentine thinks his team will win.......
Of course a Brasilian thinks his team will win........
Of course an Englishman thinks his team will win.......

You seem to care alot about whether anyone will take the piss out of you if your opinions prove to be wrong.......good thing your job is not to talk football or profit from it, otherwise you'd be sacked what with you being so worried about being wrong.

Lets get it clear, I think Italy will probably win Euro 2004...and I believe Argentina will win the 2004 Copa and the tournament at the Olympics.

If i'm wrong you can take the piss as much as you like AS LONG AS YOU GOT THE ANSWERS RIGHT YOURSELF, and if i'm right i don't want your applause.

Whats the point, i'll ignore your posts, and you can ignore mine then we can both be happy?

Although i give you credit, at least you can put forward some kind of argument as opposed to this Sonny F. character who seems like he didn't get an education.

 

[Felthat]

Children, children, tsk tsk.

Play nice eh?

 

[Fresh Prince]

alright... I am jumping in here with my two cents... Beckham, also being one of my favorite players as well, is a playmaker. No doubt about it. Fergie may have kept him out on the right because he undoubtly is one of the best crossers in the world, and with Scholes being a true attacking midfielder and most of Manchester United's attack built to the outside and crossed, Fergie put him in the best place needed... on the outside, the attack went through him 75% of the time. Hence the reason why he was the leading assist person for Man United several years running, including their gloriful year of 99. Quieroz slid him into the center, because he knew Beckhams potential as a playmaker and Real Madrid play a very direct style of football, hell I would too with the likes of Ronaldo up top. Figo generally being an outside midfielder was placed out wide because of his ability to take players on 1 on 1 and cross... same reason he takes the spot kicks as well is not only because he makes them, but because he is good at the 1 on 1 and excellent at placement. So David Beckham being a playmaker and not as much of a direct player was naturally moved to the middle, and with Zidane, made up a dream midfield. Did it work? Yes, because once again Beckham was the leading assist person this year for Real. Now you can throw back the arguement that it was his or Quieroz's fault and that Real didn't finish very well, so it doesn't matter what Beckham did. Well, put this in mind. How stupid is Madrid's administration when they sell Morientes and Makalele in the preseason for cash they don't need, two key players, are top of the table, doing well in the Champions League in January when the transfer window opened, yet have the next to the worst defensive record in the league and only really won one game in the Champions League big... and don't buy any defenders at the request of their coach? Highly stupid. Querioz asked for the purchase of a couple of defenders to beef up his backline and never got them. It was just a matter of time. And I know it doesn't help with all the media crap surrounding Beckhams affair with the tramp. But still, you have to have defense... another prime example why... look at my team Man United... were in the same position as Madrid right up until they lost Rio Ferdinand. Ended up just better than Madrid did. And did they purchase a defender in the window? Nope. Just a great striker that couldn't play when they needed him and wasn't there when they won their only silverware for the season.

Beckham is a playmaker... playmaker doen's mean he scores goals... it means he creates, as he does. Someone that scores alot is called a frontrunner or a goal scorer or Thierry Henry. Even though Becks took the imfamous number 7, I truely believe he is a number 9.

 

[Fresh Prince]

The Euro's... you can argue with me all day on this one... but trust me, here is how it pans out.

Finals: France and Czechoslovakia
Semi's: England and Portugal
Quarters: Holland, Sweden, Italy, and Spain

France win out in a PK shootout after a 2-2 draw...

no arguing here... just my opinion that I know will be correct.

 

[b23k]

alright... I am jumping in here with my two cents... Beckham, also being one of my favorite players as well, is a playmaker. No doubt about it. Fergie may have kept him out on the right because he undoubtly is one of the best crossers in the world, and with Scholes being a true attacking midfielder and most of Manchester United's attack built to the outside and crossed, Fergie put him in the best place needed... on the outside, the attack went through him 75% of the time. Hence the reason why he was the leading assist person for Man United several years running, including their gloriful year of 99. Quieroz slid him into the center, because he knew Beckhams potential as a playmaker and Real Madrid play a very direct style of football, hell I would too with the likes of Ronaldo up top. Figo generally being an outside midfielder was placed out wide because of his ability to take players on 1 on 1 and cross... same reason he takes the spot kicks as well is not only because he makes them, but because he is good at the 1 on 1 and excellent at placement. So David Beckham being a playmaker and not as much of a direct player was naturally moved to the middle, and with Zidane, made up a dream midfield. Did it work? Yes, because once again Beckham was the leading assist person this year for Real. Now you can throw back the arguement that it was his or Quieroz's fault and that Real didn't finish very well, so it doesn't matter what Beckham did. Well, put this in mind. How stupid is Madrid's administration when they sell Morientes and Makalele in the preseason for cash they don't need, two key players, are top of the table, doing well in the Champions League in January when the transfer window opened, yet have the next to the worst defensive record in the league and only really won one game in the Champions League big... and don't buy any defenders at the request of their coach? Highly stupid. Querioz asked for the purchase of a couple of defenders to beef up his backline and never got them. It was just a matter of time. And I know it doesn't help with all the media crap surrounding Beckhams affair with the tramp. But still, you have to have defense... another prime example why... look at my team Man United... were in the same position as Madrid right up until they lost Rio Ferdinand. Ended up just better than Madrid did. And did they purchase a defender in the window? Nope. Just a great striker that couldn't play when they needed him and wasn't there when they won their only silverware for the season.

Beckham is a playmaker... playmaker doen's mean he scores goals... it means he creates, as he does. Someone that scores alot is called a frontrunner or a goal scorer or Thierry Henry. Even though Becks took the imfamous number 7, I truely believe he is a number 9.

Well on the playmaker issue, we will have to agree to disagree. For me, and everyone I have come across with (until now of course), the issue of Beckham being classed a playmaker has never come up. Yes, he gains assists from taking corners and putting in free kicks, but football is not like American Sports, its not just a numbers game. I'm talking about general play, Beckham is not seen as a playmaker and never has been. Its not a criticism of him, just a fact, as I see it anyway.

A playmaker is IMO, a no 10 (I don't just mean the shirt on his back, but the style of the player), someone who will generally play through the middle and is the bridge between the midfield and the attack.

There is a big difference in my eyes in comparision of the responsibility of players like Zidane, Ronaldinho, Aimar.......to say a Beckham. However, its not a big deal. Beckham is a very good player, excellent at what he does (work rate, delivery and set pieces).......but I would never put him in a 10 position.

Real didn't sell Morientes, he was loaned out because Real felt Portillo could do the job as understudy.....they were proved wrong on that issue.

And with Makelele, the circumstances of his departure were exactly the same as those of his arrival to Real......money, he wanted more, they said no, so he went.

Real's refusal to acknowledge the fact they needed a bigger squad, a quality CM and a quality DM were their biggest faults.....personally I was delighted as my money was on Valencia from the beginning (as i said so on this very board)

Now they are addressing those issues as they have signed Walter Samuel and are looking at some other targets also.

Anyway, i've enjoyed the discussion with Durty and the Fresh Prince....as for the other characters well they have been introduced to my "Ignore list".

 

[b23k]

The Euro's... you can argue with me all day on this one... but trust me, here is how it pans out.

Finals: France and Czechoslovakia
Semi's: England and Portugal
Quarters: Holland, Sweden, Italy, and Spain

France win out in a PK shootout after a 2-2 draw...

no arguing here... just my opinion that I know will be correct.

Thank god for that, someone not afraid to give some predictions!

Be careful though Fresh Prince, Sutty might not take too kindly to someone who actually has a view on how things will pan out!

 

[Fresh Prince]

To me, no 10 has always been the goalscorer... Pele, Thierry Henry, Christian Vieri... 90% of the frontrunners wear the number 10... I did when I was younger for my goalscoring capabilities... I have had 8 or 12 ever since because of my playmaking, not my goal scoring... we can go back and forth about Beckham for years about whether he is a playmaker or not... personally I think he is... ask yourself this though... Becks is center at Real, center on the England national team, played center for Man United when he started out until in 95 when Fergie moved him to the right... he has been an attacking midfielder most of his life but gained the reputation of the right because of Man U's success... why doesn't the center suit him as a playmaker when he has played it most of his life? Personally I think his hype has been from his free kicks and hot ass girlfriend... and those two things don't constitute a football player. I think those have taken away from the true Becks that no one talks about... the complete player.

As for the numbers... believe me, I agree with Americans getting caught up in them, I am as far from that as any American because I enjoy the beauty, technical and tactical skill, and the passion for the game as it truely is. But, number don't lie, and I merely pointed them out to show you he creates.

 

[b23k]

I think maybe there is a little misunderstanding in the interpretation. In Argentina, when we think of a "playmaker", we associate it with the number 10.

I don't mean that all playmakers where 10, or that anyone wearing 10 is a playmaker.....some teams are too shit, or simply don't have a system that caters to a playmaker.

For example also, when we think of a DM it is usually associated with the number 5 or 6, the out and out goalscorer is 9, the attacking mid is 8 etc etc

I fundamentally disagree with you about Beckham playing his professional life in the centre, i'm afraid that is just plain wrong.

Yes, when he first broke in at man.utd he was considered a Centre midfielder (box to box) not a playmaker, Fergie put him on the right early on and he stayed there his entire career in England....so i don't know where you get him being a centre mid for man.utd from, Keane and Scholes have been in the Centre for man.utd for years...not Beckham.

Its only ONE season at Real he has played Centre, and he is NOT used as a playmaker, Zidane is. Beckham is left to do much of the donkey work that was left behind when they lost Makelele. He has a great fitness level, and Real took advantage of that asset of his game.

And for England, again, i'm sure the England fans on here (even Sutty maybe) can tell you Beckham has won the majority of his caps at right mid, not centre mid. He is playing more in the Centre now........and as far as i can see its a mistake, as England already has good centre mid's and so Beckham is better placed on the right.

The hype around Beckham is insane, its really quite unbelievable how it all exploded and he became this icon of the world. I remember seeing him play in a pre-season tournament in Nottingham when he was coming through, he scored a cracking goal v Forest, and i kept an eye out for him etc etc Like you do when you see a new player that looks good...I would never have imagined the global icon he has become, that really has become totally detached from football......now its his hairstyle, his fashion, his tatoos......its ridiculos.

I'd have to disagree with you about twat spice, I never liked her, and even less so when she became a skeleton.....I always wanted to fuck the original Geri though, when she had tits, not since where she has become some yoga freak, got skinny etc etc

I think most people will tell you, England fans or neutrals like myself, that Beckham is not England's most important player....its Gerard. The guy is a pure leader, and he can defend and he can chip in with a few goals.

Anyway to be honest my friend, i don't really care about England enough to keep talking about them, so i'll leave it there!

I'm too angry right now with a Colombian Referee to give this any further attention!

ps. I never dispusted Beckham creates goals, that is obvious, he takes set pieces, its supposed to be that way.......that isn't the definition of playmaker, that makes him a dead ball specialist.

We are going in circles really you are right, i'll leave you with this...When you think of the style and influence on a team that Zidane has (i.e beating players, playing the ball that cuts open the back 4, and scoring some goals)......do you think of Beckham? I don't.

When you think of the style and influence on a team that Totti has (i.e beating players, playing the ball that cuts open the back 4, and scoring some goals)......do you think of Beckham? I don't.

When you think of the style and influence on a team that Ronaldinho has (i.e beating players, playing the ball that cuts open the back 4, and scoring some goals)......do you think of Beckham? I don't.

Thats my point, those are playmakers, they win tournaments, Beckham doesn't have that level of influence and he'll never win on the International stage.

Beckham has been shut down in the past by disciplined defences, essentially his crossing is reduced, or like when Real played Man.Utd last year in Spain, Roberto Carlos murdered Beckham and he was never in the game......playmakers like Zidane, Aimar, Ronaldinho, Totti etc because they are central, because almost EVERYTHING goes thru them.....thats why, in Argentina at least, they are known as playmakers.

 

[Sutty]

Thank god for that, someone not afraid to give some predictions!

Be careful though Fresh Prince, Sutty might not take too kindly to someone who actually has a view on how things will pan out!

If you open your eyes B23k, and look in the Euro 2004 thread you will see that I have predicted pretty much the same as the Fresh Prince - France and the Czechs.