The distinction between information and evidence is semantical. In all cases the best evidence, or information, will prevail. There has never been any signifigant study done by chemtrail detractors, because their argument is that of ignorance and laziness. Thus the conclusive findings of scientific studies such as that conducted by the chemtrail proponent Belfort Group, is, by default, the best available evidence, and the scientific precedent regarding the matter.
Chemtrails : Aluminum & Other Poisons Falling From The Sky
- Thread starter eric2136
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The distinction between information and evidence is semantical. In all cases the best evidence, or information, will prevail. There has never been any signifigant study done by chemtrail detractors, because their argument is that of ignorance and laziness. Thus the conclusive findings of scientific studies such as that conducted by the chemtrail proponent Belfort Group, is, by default, the best available evidence, and the scientific precedent regarding the matter.
bobjustbob
Proud member of FreeOnes Hall Of Fame. Retired to
There is nothing in the Belfore Report that says chemtrails are real.
As I already said, for the purposes of simplicity and clarity, the Belfort Group refers to chemtrails as "persistent contrails". The reason being that all contrails are chemtrails, because all jets release, in addition to water vapor, a certain level of chemical emissions in the contrails including Carbon Dioxide, Nitric Oxide, Sulfur Oxide. etc. These "regular" contrails, although very dangerous and illegal in their own right, are distinguished, in part, from the phenomenon of chemtrails in that "persistent contrails" are designed and disseminated for certain purposes using specific patented technology which is detailed in the report. This is all explained in the Section 1 Executive Summary on page 7 of the report after the index. Then follows a 70 page detailed analysis of the subject matter.
So your statement that the Belfort Gorup doesn't discuss chemtrails and/or persistent contrails is absurd, as that is the central thesis of the report.
I have several databases of information on several different topics, on and off the computer. Although I tend to store a lot of PDF files on the computer because they can be so long.
bobjustbob
Proud member of FreeOnes Hall Of Fame. Retired to
No Eric. You claim that you are getting sick from chemicals being sprayed on you and you can describe the clouds that are doing so. A claim that neither you or your group of scientist have yet to prove.
Ok, now I'm not even quite sure what you are saying at this point. If you are waiting for someone to prove to you that contrails or persistent contrails, which you can see with your own eyes, exists, than you are by yourself on that one champ, and you will be waiting a LONG time lol If you are somehow trying to dispute the legitimacy of a report conducted by the scientific community regarding the chemical make-up of chemtrails. A report that you haven't seen or read, and that is the established best evidence and/ or information regarding the subject, then, again, that obviously is equally ridiculous.
You're right I was sick, but, thank God, I have improved 97% in large part from what I learned regarding this subject. And now I can look forward to surviving another year in arguably the best health of my life (knock on wood)…so you can continue to engage in your ignorant and pointless paralysis thru lack of analysis if you want, but if you ignore the warnings in this thread, you do so at your own peril, and I put that on my life.
bobjustbob
Proud member of FreeOnes Hall Of Fame. Retired to
You don't know what I am talking about? Your first 3 posts in this thread.
Claim #1. You and others are getting sick from the lines in the sky. Nothing you have presented points to your illnesses coming from them.
Your second post: A conglomeration of symptoms from an unknown person that in no way can be pinpointed to any exact source. No evidence, just someone's speculations.
Your 3rd post is a report on seasonal allergies. Why did you post this? Is this in some way your attempt to blame something else on your chemtrail tirade? Again, not a single smidgen of proof to your made up claim.
As far as the Belfore Report goes, it does not support and claim that chemtrails exist or that they can be identified. The report details what goes into jet fuel. The fact that jet emissions are toxic just like automobile emissions. There is no secret that weather manipulation has been experimented with including cloud seeding. No place in the report does it verify the claims that governmental spraying is affecting the health of people on the ground. Nor does it support any claims that anything found on the ground can be attributed to chemtrails.
Add to this that the report addresses the chemtrail debate as lacking scientific evidence and needs to rework the methods for gathering their findings.
Claim #1. You and others are getting sick from the lines in the sky. Nothing you have presented points to your illnesses coming from them.
Your second post: A conglomeration of symptoms from an unknown person that in no way can be pinpointed to any exact source. No evidence, just someone's speculations.
Your 3rd post is a report on seasonal allergies. Why did you post this? Is this in some way your attempt to blame something else on your chemtrail tirade? Again, not a single smidgen of proof to your made up claim.
As far as the Belfore Report goes, it does not support and claim that chemtrails exist or that they can be identified. The report details what goes into jet fuel. The fact that jet emissions are toxic just like automobile emissions. There is no secret that weather manipulation has been experimented with including cloud seeding. No place in the report does it verify the claims that governmental spraying is affecting the health of people on the ground. Nor does it support any claims that anything found on the ground can be attributed to chemtrails.
Add to this that the report addresses the chemtrail debate as lacking scientific evidence and needs to rework the methods for gathering their findings.
bobjustbob
Proud member of FreeOnes Hall Of Fame. Retired to
What page is this on?
Exactly. Everything you said is complete and utter bullshit. Not only have you not seen nor read the Case Orange Report, but you can't even spell Belfort correctly. Get a clue. LOL
bobjustbob
Proud member of FreeOnes Hall Of Fame. Retired to
Thank you for correcting my spelling.
Page 40: "Most of the people posting the 'chemtrai 'observations on the Internet are not academically qualified to do so."
"Because the phenomenon is basically Internet driven, there is no support whatsoever from scientists, political parties or environmental organizations. It is striking that the representative of the ecologist party (Grüne) in Vienna even expletively states that the subject is a mere conspiracy theory and there is neither time nor resources available to study the subject."
" all the available information on the Internet does not permit verification of any 'chemtrail' claim. Anonymous reports, such as the testimony of Agent Deep Shield' who claimed to be an insider in the 'chemtrail' business, does again not improve credibility."
Page 40: "Most of the people posting the 'chemtrai 'observations on the Internet are not academically qualified to do so."
"Because the phenomenon is basically Internet driven, there is no support whatsoever from scientists, political parties or environmental organizations. It is striking that the representative of the ecologist party (Grüne) in Vienna even expletively states that the subject is a mere conspiracy theory and there is neither time nor resources available to study the subject."
" all the available information on the Internet does not permit verification of any 'chemtrail' claim. Anonymous reports, such as the testimony of Agent Deep Shield' who claimed to be an insider in the 'chemtrail' business, does again not improve credibility."
It would be obvious to anyone doing anything more than a cursory examination of the report , that your quotes are from the section of the Case Orange Report dedicated to responsibly recounting arguments from the detractors of chemtrail phenomenon, and the reason that the Belfort Group refers to chemtrails as persistent contrails. That reason being to neutralize ignorant criticism from the topic based on an over sensationalized term, and rather focussing the reader into concentrating on the reality of the situation and the spraying that is being done . Again, a point which I made several posts ago. Although I do find it interesting that in a 70 page report on the subject, you would key in on that section in a vain attempt to misrepresent the basic premise of the report which is that jet contrails, and chemtrails/persistent contrails exists and are dangerous to human health and the environment.
Executive Summary page 7
"…Contrails are not the harmless emissions of aircraft at high altitude that only have an esthetic impact on the sky as meteorologists suggest. They do not only contain huge amounts of water vapor, but also significant amounts of Carbon Dioxide, Nitric Oxide, Sulfur Oxide and soot that have a significant impact on public health. In that respect it is noteworthy that derogations for emissions of Hydrocarbons and Carbon Monoxide have been granted for engines of some military aircraft, which exceed civil regulatory levels in a very significant way. Chapter 3 contains a detailed description how contrails are formed, its detailed chemical composition plus a very interesting case study of the KC135 tanker & E-3 Sentry (AWACS) aircraft, the latter being operated on a Luxemburg registration without complying to civil standards.
Persistent contrails have a devastating impact on eco-systems on Earth. They develop in men made Cirrus cloud that can cover a significant part of the sky. It is scientific evidence that those aviation-induced clouds already occupy 3 to 5% of the sky in Europe and this figure increases by 1 to 2% per decade…"
2. NOMENCLATURA:
A distinction is made between contrails, distrails, wingtip vortices and 'chemtrails'. In this research paper only contrails and chemtrails are subject to an in-depth study.
5.3.3. Safety and health aspects of climate modeling through aviation: page 66
According to D. Mitchell and W. Finnegan seeding the atmosphere with aerosols containing oxides of metals as part of a geo-engineering project have some drawbacks:
(A)Increase of the rates of strategic ozone destruction. (C)Decrease in solar radiation altering the hydrological cycle with more frequent droughts. (E)Less solar power.
"…The questions arises how extremely high concentrations of Aluminum and in a lesser extend Barium, measured in the center of Paris (for example PTE = Paris Tour Eiffel) in November 2008 and included in appendix 23 should be interpreted as there are no fixed standards to determine an alarm level for this type of contamination.
The aerotoxic syndrome:
Symptoms of skin, eyes, nose and respiratory irritation immediately after exposure. Further exposures exacerbate the symptoms, often leading to other respiratory and cardiovascular effects. Symptoms of gastrointestinal discomfort immediately after exposure. While these recede with cessation of exposure there is a suggestion that nausea and diarrhea can persist.
Some symptoms of impairment of neurophysiologic function immediately after exposure, such as headache, dizziness, disorientation and intoxication. These symptoms
become more debilitating after time with loss of cognitive function and memory problems emerging. General symptoms of exhaustion to chronic fatigue, with suppression of the immunity system with food intolerance, allergies and chemical sensitivities (MCS or Multiple Chemical Sensitivity) some time after exposure.
6.1. CONCLUSIONS AND RECOMMENDATIONS: page 68
1. Manipulation of climate through modification of Cirrus clouds is neither a hoax nor a conspiracy theory
3. The technology to organize spraying actions on a global scale is widely available. Both civil and military aviation is used for that purpose. The mix, containing oxides of metals and chemical components, can either be dispersed through special designed pods or directly incorporated into the jet fuel. This research paper is well documented in this respect.
4. Since the patents are owned by the main defense contractor for the U.S. armed forces (Raytheon) or the U.S. department of defense itself and given the history record it is obvious that current climate manipulation programs are organized and directed by the United States government. 5. The spraying actions in Europe are only possible with prior approval and intense co-ordination on top government level and industry on executive level. The general public is intentionally kept unaware of the existence of such projects. 6. "…[T]he spraying actions... have a potential detrimental effect on health. There is sufficient scientific evidence available in this research paper to support this thesis.
Additionally, note that the observations regarding the amount of chemtrail research being done, on the internet and otherwise, was reflecting on the current status at that time prior to 2010 when the report was released. With this report, and since then, the universe of knowledge regarding this topic has increased even more, very significantly, as evidenced by the myriad of even more recent sources presented in this thread.
Case Orange - Belfort Group Report on Contrail Science (TSV)
saive.com
"...On Saturday 29 th of May the Belgian Belfort-group organised in Ghent an international symposion on the subject :
The illegal spraying of harmful substances in the atmosphere by airplanes also known as ‘chemtrails’ …"
One of the highlights was certainly the presentation of "Case Orange", a scientific report, which has been compiled on behalf of the Belfort-group and of humanity by a team of experts with relevant aviation background. This is very important : the authors are inside experts.
The fight for a world without chemtrails will not be easy, but now we have a peacefull weapon which offers evidence based prove that the phenomenon is not internet gossip or conspiracy theory but – to put it blatantly – that we are being sprayed.
This has been going on for years and it’s not going to stop ! According to the conference of 18-22 th February of the AAAS they are planning to put to 20 million tons of aluminium into the atmosphere.
I have already delivered this ‘Case orange’-document in an outprint copy personally to the Brussels headquarter of UNO and Nato and eight embassies (USA, UK, Germany, France, Iran, Russia, China, Venezuela).
The Quote From The Front Page of The Case Orange Report
"... If we can stand up to them, all Europe may be free and the life of the world may move forward into broad, sunlit uplands. But if we fail, then the whole world, including the United States, including all that we have known and cared for, will sink into the abyss of a new Dark Age made more sinister, and perhaps more protracted, by the lights of perverted science…"
Winston Churchill, This was their
finest hour' speech to the House of Commons, June 18th 1940.
:
Case Orange - Belfort Group Report on Contrail Science (TSV)
saive.com
"...On Saturday 29 th of May the Belgian Belfort-group organised in Ghent an international symposion on the subject :
The illegal spraying of harmful substances in the atmosphere by airplanes also known as ‘chemtrails’ …"
One of the highlights was certainly the presentation of "Case Orange", a scientific report, which has been compiled on behalf of the Belfort-group and of humanity by a team of experts with relevant aviation background. This is very important : the authors are inside experts.
The fight for a world without chemtrails will not be easy, but now we have a peacefull weapon which offers evidence based prove that the phenomenon is not internet gossip or conspiracy theory but – to put it blatantly – that we are being sprayed.
This has been going on for years and it’s not going to stop ! According to the conference of 18-22 th February of the AAAS they are planning to put to 20 million tons of aluminium into the atmosphere.
I have already delivered this ‘Case orange’-document in an outprint copy personally to the Brussels headquarter of UNO and Nato and eight embassies (USA, UK, Germany, France, Iran, Russia, China, Venezuela).
The Quote From The Front Page of The Case Orange Report
"... If we can stand up to them, all Europe may be free and the life of the world may move forward into broad, sunlit uplands. But if we fail, then the whole world, including the United States, including all that we have known and cared for, will sink into the abyss of a new Dark Age made more sinister, and perhaps more protracted, by the lights of perverted science…"
Winston Churchill, This was their
finest hour' speech to the House of Commons, June 18th 1940.
bobjustbob
Proud member of FreeOnes Hall Of Fame. Retired to
Re: Chemtrails : Aluminum & Other Poisons Falling From The Sky
There you make the sidestep away from your original claim of persistent spraying of chemicals making people sick on the ground. There is no link. The Mitchell - Finnegan findings are from cabins with faults allowing engine emissions in. I know you haven't read it so here is the link.
http://www.aerotoxic.org/aerotoxic-association/
Do you see anything in this link to associate what is happening in an aircraft cabin to any claim of what is on the ground? It was a reference from the Belfort Report.
There you make the sidestep away from your original claim of persistent spraying of chemicals making people sick on the ground. There is no link. The Mitchell - Finnegan findings are from cabins with faults allowing engine emissions in. I know you haven't read it so here is the link.
http://www.aerotoxic.org/aerotoxic-association/
Do you see anything in this link to associate what is happening in an aircraft cabin to any claim of what is on the ground? It was a reference from the Belfort Report.
bobjustbob
Proud member of FreeOnes Hall Of Fame. Retired to
Re: Chemtrails : Aluminum & Other Poisons Falling From The Sky
That thread you just posted really shows your desperation to believe in this bullshit.
Case Orange - Belfort Group Report on Contrail Science (TSV) saive.com
This is new research? It's the Belfort Report in a pdf file.
A commercial and video of the presentation of the report written a few months after it was written.
Quotes from the original report.
A meeting held months before that commercial
"...evidenced by the myriad of even more recent sources presented in this thread."
That is your idea of a myriad of recent sources? Happy New year. It's 2014. Go buy yourself a calendar and learn to use words in proper context.
That thread you just posted really shows your desperation to believe in this bullshit.
Case Orange - Belfort Group Report on Contrail Science (TSV) saive.com
This is new research? It's the Belfort Report in a pdf file.
A commercial and video of the presentation of the report written a few months after it was written.
Quotes from the original report.
A meeting held months before that commercial
"...evidenced by the myriad of even more recent sources presented in this thread."
That is your idea of a myriad of recent sources? Happy New year. It's 2014. Go buy yourself a calendar and learn to use words in proper context.
Re: Chemtrails : Aluminum & Other Poisons Falling From The Sky
Notwithstanding the myriad of negative environmental impacts cited in The Case Orange Report, The Mitchell - Finnegan findings discuss those individuals in closest proximity to the toxic fumes and chemical jet fuel additives in bleed air i.e.. air supplied direct from the jet engines. It is mixed inside the aircraft with recirculated cabin air at a ratio of 50/50. Although some of the air is subsequently recirculated, all of the air originates from the jet engines. It is already been established the the Aluminum Oxide and many other toxic additives are added to the jet fuel for the purpose of disspersion.
"…The seeding material, comprised of a pressed composite of reagent Bismuth metal, Aluminum and Gilsonite (natural Hydrocarbon) could be either dissolved or suspended in the jet fuel of commercial airliners and later burned with the fuel to create seeding aerosol. The mix could be directly injected into the hot engine exhaust, which should vaporize the seeding material, allowing it to condense as aerosol in the jet contrail. In this respect it is noteworthy that the Secretary of the U.S. navy is in possession of patent 3,899,144, dated August 12th 1975, claiming the invention of specific contrail generation apparatus for producing a powder contrail having maximum radiation scattering ability for a given weight material.146 The document again consists of 85% metallic particles and 15% colloidal Silica and Silica gel in order to produce a stable contrail that has a residence period of 1 up to 2 weeks as the Mitchell and Finnegan surveyclaims.1...
The Case Orange Report goes on to say what continued long-term effects of those chemical fumes and/or mists have on human health. This is the most direct evidence possible of the danger of chemtrails. "The aerosol trails contain particles that linger for hours, get dispersed by the wind and eventually fall to the earth."
http://www.examiner.com/article/wea...and-geo-engineering-what-is-happening-the-sky
It has also been established that those chemicals are found in extremely high concentrations on the ground in areas where they are spraying.
"..In addition to inhaling nano aluminum, such spraying will saturate the ground, water, and vegetation with high levels of aluminum. Normally, aluminum is poorly absorbed from the GI tract; but nanoaluminum is absorbed in much higher amounts. This absorbed aluminum has been shown to be distributed to a number of organs and tissues including the brain and spinal cord. Inhaling this environmentally suspended nanoaluminum will also produce tremendous inflammatory reaction within the lungs, which will pose a significant hazard to children and adults with asthma and pulmonary diseases."
Chemtrails, Nanoaluminum, and Neurodegenerative and Neurodevelopmental Effects
By Russell L. Blaylock, M.D.
http://globalmarchagainstchemtrailsandgeoengineering.com/images/
The negative effects of the aerosol heavier-than-air metallic chemicals that bleed onto flight personnel is an unintended incidental result, but substantiate the negative effects of the chemicals on humans. The intended purpose, however, is the dispersion of millions of tons of these chemicals on human populations. So. if anything, by even mentioning the The Mitchell - Finnegan "bleed air" findings, you are just further substantiating and making my point for me.
Notwithstanding the myriad of negative environmental impacts cited in The Case Orange Report, The Mitchell - Finnegan findings discuss those individuals in closest proximity to the toxic fumes and chemical jet fuel additives in bleed air i.e.. air supplied direct from the jet engines. It is mixed inside the aircraft with recirculated cabin air at a ratio of 50/50. Although some of the air is subsequently recirculated, all of the air originates from the jet engines. It is already been established the the Aluminum Oxide and many other toxic additives are added to the jet fuel for the purpose of disspersion.
"…The seeding material, comprised of a pressed composite of reagent Bismuth metal, Aluminum and Gilsonite (natural Hydrocarbon) could be either dissolved or suspended in the jet fuel of commercial airliners and later burned with the fuel to create seeding aerosol. The mix could be directly injected into the hot engine exhaust, which should vaporize the seeding material, allowing it to condense as aerosol in the jet contrail. In this respect it is noteworthy that the Secretary of the U.S. navy is in possession of patent 3,899,144, dated August 12th 1975, claiming the invention of specific contrail generation apparatus for producing a powder contrail having maximum radiation scattering ability for a given weight material.146 The document again consists of 85% metallic particles and 15% colloidal Silica and Silica gel in order to produce a stable contrail that has a residence period of 1 up to 2 weeks as the Mitchell and Finnegan surveyclaims.1...
The Case Orange Report goes on to say what continued long-term effects of those chemical fumes and/or mists have on human health. This is the most direct evidence possible of the danger of chemtrails. "The aerosol trails contain particles that linger for hours, get dispersed by the wind and eventually fall to the earth."
http://www.examiner.com/article/wea...and-geo-engineering-what-is-happening-the-sky
It has also been established that those chemicals are found in extremely high concentrations on the ground in areas where they are spraying.
"..In addition to inhaling nano aluminum, such spraying will saturate the ground, water, and vegetation with high levels of aluminum. Normally, aluminum is poorly absorbed from the GI tract; but nanoaluminum is absorbed in much higher amounts. This absorbed aluminum has been shown to be distributed to a number of organs and tissues including the brain and spinal cord. Inhaling this environmentally suspended nanoaluminum will also produce tremendous inflammatory reaction within the lungs, which will pose a significant hazard to children and adults with asthma and pulmonary diseases."
Chemtrails, Nanoaluminum, and Neurodegenerative and Neurodevelopmental Effects
By Russell L. Blaylock, M.D.
http://globalmarchagainstchemtrailsandgeoengineering.com/images/
The negative effects of the aerosol heavier-than-air metallic chemicals that bleed onto flight personnel is an unintended incidental result, but substantiate the negative effects of the chemicals on humans. The intended purpose, however, is the dispersion of millions of tons of these chemicals on human populations. So. if anything, by even mentioning the The Mitchell - Finnegan "bleed air" findings, you are just further substantiating and making my point for me.
Re: Chemtrails : Aluminum & Other Poisons Falling From The Sky
The even newer research has been presented in the previous postings in the this thread which you obviously haven't watched. The purpose of the additional info and video was to highlight the Belfort Groups usage of the term chemtrails in their informational video. The Churchill quote should be self-explanatory in terms of identifying the central thesis of the Groups findings.
The even newer research has been presented in the previous postings in the this thread which you obviously haven't watched. The purpose of the additional info and video was to highlight the Belfort Groups usage of the term chemtrails in their informational video. The Churchill quote should be self-explanatory in terms of identifying the central thesis of the Groups findings.
bobjustbob
Proud member of FreeOnes Hall Of Fame. Retired to
"The Case Orange Report goes on to say what continued long-term effects of those chemical fumes and/or mists have on human health. This is the most direct evidence possible of the danger of chemtrails. "The aerosol trails contain particles that linger for hours, get dispersed by the wind and eventually fall to the earth."
http://www.examiner.com/article/weat...pening-the-sky
The links post to articles written by activist, with no scientific credentials, on the Internet, just as mentioned in the Belfort Report. You are running in circles here. Could you please post where your 2 quoted paragraphs came from?
http://www.examiner.com/article/weat...pening-the-sky
The links post to articles written by activist, with no scientific credentials, on the Internet, just as mentioned in the Belfort Report. You are running in circles here. Could you please post where your 2 quoted paragraphs came from?
Additionally, for the remedial like Bob, you can go back to post #8 and review some more recent analysis of the subject matter, in particular the third video in that post at the 31:00 mark where the speaker discusses recent findings of aluminum in mountain snow and pond water where they are spraying at 24,000 to 61,000 times the regular natural occurring amounts. So like i said Bob, the ass clown, get a clue. I would post the vid again, but I don't like to subsidize stupidity LOL
bobjustbob
Proud member of FreeOnes Hall Of Fame. Retired to
"as evidenced by the myriad of even more recent sources presented in this thread."
And then you post shit from 2009. You are losing your traction here. Slide on the ice till you fall on your ass.
And then you post shit from 2009. You are losing your traction here. Slide on the ice till you fall on your ass.