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*2020 US Presidential Elections* - Candidates, Statistics, Campaign Timelines, Debates

I'm surprised that *anyone* is surprised it's so close.

Biden is a wet blanket candidate. He's flotsam. He's another Hillary Clinton. He's a candidate the Democrats knew wouldn't rock the boat too much and would hopefully do just enough to beat Trump.

And it might just work, but it was a hell of a risk after 2016. But what we're seeing over there, and we've seen the same in the UK, is the problem of a two party state for the left-wing. For Conservatives / Republicans, it's a perfect system because they're almost all pulling in the same direction. And even if they aren't, as we've seen with that spineless turd Lindsay Graham, they'll eventually fall into line because the alternative is too horrendous to comprehend.

The left is split though. Biden is a centrist, you couldn't even call him centre-left. He's so far removed from what so many on the left want. Sanders would have been politically a risk, too, but that's because he's the complete opposite of Biden. But he would have energised the youth and minorities into voting in greater numbers.

The Democrats are dealing in assumption. In 2016 they assumed that nobody would be crazy enough to vote for Trump. Even Trump's camp assumed that. They didn't make the effort and they lost. In 2020, they assumed Biden's connection to Obama would be enough to energise the aforemention electorate. But they've not bought it. The Democrats are a busted flush. They've lost one and are barely crawling over the winning line (maybe) against DONALD TRUMP. Donald fucking Trump. But nobody should be surprised that it's close and, win or not, they will definitely lose in 2024. They need to decide what they are as a party.

I'll never argue against the weakness of the democrats, but a 2x4 with a face sharpied onto it should have beaten not only trump, but all republicans, handily. It's been a decade of a republican controlled senate and what have they done apart from a deficit-exploding tax handout for billionaires and 70-odd attempts to repeal Obamacare, with no idea what they're going to replace it with? trump has never had above a 50% approval rating at any point in his presidency, he's spent most of it hovering around the 35% mark, but the popular vote only has a few percent difference.
So, ignoring the dems and their impotence, the republicans should have beaten themselves. Where is this extra 10 to 15 fucking per cent coming from? How is pretty much every senate republican safe? How did they gain 10 seats in the house? Aside from the trumpa loompas, who has been looking at this congress and thinking "yup. more of that!"? Nobody! Therefore there has to be more trumpa loompas lurking around than the 35% we've been assuming by his favorability polls.

And THAT, is why I'm a little shocked and very concerned. If the US has that many, we could too.

I loath the Republicans (both the party and it's supporters) and at this point will never vote for another one the rest of my life, and I have voted for some before. If I find a Democrat I consider too loathsome or reprehensible in the future I will just not vote out of principle as that as bad as I see the Republican party has gotten. For the sake of transparantcy, I consider myself an independent and have been one my entire adult life. I guess if a gun was held to my head and I was forced to label myself as part of a political group the closest definition would be as a progressive. I'm not somebody that likes the Democrats though, but I don't dislike them nearly as much as I dislike the the absolute batshit craziness the Republicans have become. The Dems have flaws, some deep, but as I'm not an adherent of either the logical fallacies of whataboutism or false equivalence I don't consider them "just as bad" like some out there do.

With that said I do agree with some of what you say here, and it's something that always infuriates me with the Democrats. They seem to be the grandmasters of bringing a knife to a gun fight. The Republicans (especially modern ones) will use just about any underhanded trick to retain power or get ahead if they think it's technically legal or if they just think they can get away with it. They will also mindlessly circle the wagons in a scary level of blind fanaticism. Republicans will stick to a single issue or sometimes a very small handful no matter how much nearly everything else is against their best interest or often even if it makes them completely hypocritical in a greater sense of things. They will live in a worldview that doesn't coincide with reality more often than the Dems, and I think the Dems too often forget all that and underestimate what they are up against. They are pretty much up against people with semi-cult levels of devotion that borders on religious ferver.

The Dems will have more numbers. Will have a cause that while sometimes can't be described as "just" at least isn't insane. They will usually use more science, analytical rational thinking, empirical and rational evidence. They are willing to at least be more self critical and call out themselves more than the Republicans. Overall they support more issues that on the surface should the in the best interest of the majority (and usually half-ass it as they give in the the rich elite or their own corporate masters)...and then when the time for battle comes they bring the damn knives the the gunfight and sit around bewildered as to why they lost or why they haven't pulled ahead a long time ago. Republicans are masters of tailoring their message to their supporters no matter how stupid or sometimes vile it might be because it will get their supporters to forget all the other large amount of stuff they do that isn't in their supporters best interest. Democrats on the other hand have pretty much distilled their message to their supporters as "So, hey guys, we aren't quite as bad as the other side. Do you think you can vote for us. It's not like you have much of a choice.", and have done that for over the past 40 years. That doesn't exactly rile up their base or other supporters. It's hard to get enthusiasm with that philosophy. They need to go all in on what their supporters and the majority of the people want, and not sell out to other interest while doing it.

Of course being up against gerrymandering, an outdated electoral collage system, and damn near cult doesn't help either.

The dems knife is called "principles" and the repubs gun is called "lack of principles". I'm not saying the dems are all angels, but they generally try to be consistent in their statements, and not break any laws, and do things that they think will help the most Americans, and one of their biggest flaws is that they still somehow imagine that republicans are also guided by those principles, despite the infinite supply of evidence to the contrary.
 

John_8581

FreeOnes Lifetime Member
Rudy Giuliani vows lawsuits in Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, Michigan, Georgia, Nevada and Arizona on behalf of the Trump campaign ...

https://rumble.com/vaxthv-rudy-giul...ans-for-pennsylvania.html?mref=23gga&mc=8uxj1

Rudy Giuliani in Philadelphia.JPG


=====

He's out of his mind. Joe Biden voted in Delaware. But according to Rudy, "Joe Biden voted in Pennsylvania. Not once. Not twice. Not fifty times. But five thousand times ... "

People overseeing the vote count are both Republican Party and Democratic Party observers. But he wants one hundred and twenty thousand mail-in votes in Philadelphia thrown out. The first judge (a Democrat) said, "No. Let them keep counting."

Rudy then had some choice words for the corrupt Philadelphia political machine. He called them, "Democrats are doing everything in their power to steal this election. He then called them Democratic Party hacks for Joe Biden."

This election is not going to be settled until two weeks before Christmas.
 
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gmase

Nattering Nabob of Negativism
draw2.jpg with a couple more days left? We should know by the end of today how many votes Trump loses by in Pennsylvania.

@tvstrip put it well:
IMO a similar divide exist on the right, but they've managed to overcome it. The biggest split IMO among conservatives is right wing ideas and the extremist/downright ridiculous behaviour of twump. I believe that the majority of those who voted republican are NOT racist redneck hicks, but normal, sane people who have conservative ideals, whether they be fiscal, religious or otherwise. The challenge for them was whether those ideals was enough to tolerate the antics of potus, and in the end, unlike the dems in 2016 they still voted for him.
I live amongst these people and identify with them in many ways. I'm sane with conservative, realistic fiscal ideals. My social ideals are 'radical'. As for religion, to each their own. Sexual proclivity, to each their own. Everyone should have equal rights regardless of anything (sex, color, religion, et al.). Guns should be well-regulated. Law and order should be maintained. Taxes are necessary and have a place in our society. We want the benefits, we need to pay for them. Radical!

Mongo:
Lumping all Republicans into one bucket is like lumping all Democrats in one bucket. Each has a diverse tent and labeling either group is doing a disservice to both them and you. I voted for Biden, but have little in common with protesters who also voted for Biden. I didn't vote for Trump, but have more in common with my neighbors who likely did vote for him.

My hope is Biden and McConnell can work together to get things moving again for everyone.
 

gmase

Nattering Nabob of Negativism
Today's Trump:
  • STOP THE COUNT!
  • ANY VOTE THAT CAME IN AFTER ELECTION DAY WILL NOT BE COUNTED!
Why do I get the feeling we will be hearing about this for 4 years? Just remember how Republicans whined about "liberals" whining about 2016. "They can't get over Hillary losing!" We will see how high-pitched the Republican's can get and how long they'll be chirping about Trump getting beat by the "worst presidential candidate in [the] history of US politics."

[I edited my comment (deleted 'Trump kicking') to fix an error which did not change the meaning or intent of my comment.]
 
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Why do I get the feeling we will be hearing about this for 4 years? Just remember how Republicans whined about "liberals" whining about 2016. "They can't get over Trump kicking Hillary losing!" We will see how high-pitched the Republican's can get and how long they'll be chirping about Trump getting beat by the "worst presidential candidate in [the] history of US politics."
I don't think so. Many Republicans have been avoiding ot antagonize Trump 'cause they were scared of him endorsing a primary opponent which would have heavily jeopardized their chance to keep their seat but behind closed doors they do not like Trump. Many of them are gonna distance themselves from Trumpism. They probably won't riticize Trump directly but they won't oppose policies Trump wouldn't endorse.

My guess is that the Republican party is gonna be fractured between those who will keep supporting Trumpism and those who will move on and get back to pre-Trump republicanism
 

gmase

Nattering Nabob of Negativism
I don't think so. Many Republicans have been avoiding ot antagonize Trump 'cause they were scared of him endorsing a primary opponent which would have heavily jeopardized their chance to keep their seat but behind closed doors they do not like Trump. Many of them are gonna distance themselves from Trumpism. They probably won't riticize Trump directly but they won't oppose policies Trump wouldn't endorse.

My guess is that the Republican party is gonna be fractured between those who will keep supporting Trumpism and those who will move on and get back to pre-Trump republicanism
You've been reading these threads. You haven't come across the memes and other comments?
 
You've been reading these threads. You haven't come across the memes and other comments?
Most of the board's Republicans are Trumptards. The few moderate republicans have left over the course of the last 4 years.
 

Theopolis Q. Hossenffer

Every Nation Needs a God-Emperor!
I believe Trumpism is too ingrained now in what was the Republican party. Too many members like the way it is and anyone not getting with the program is not welcome. The other former Republicans might just as well start a new Party. The Rationalists? Lotta posts on the reasons for this, some by me.
 
Even though, I am neither American nor living anywhere nearby, Trump being a conservative (at least by name and party) is in demand at certain parts in the world, notably the Arab part. I was accosted yesterday by a "I do not like Trump" guy who told me that he would have preferred if Trump hadn't lost due to his views on abortion, gay marriage and guns.
 
Mongo:
Lumping all Republicans into one bucket is like lumping all Democrats in one bucket. Each has a diverse tent and labeling either group is doing a disservice to both them and you. I voted for Biden, but have little in common with protesters who also voted for Biden. I didn't vote for Trump, but have more in common with my neighbors who likely did vote for him.

I'm not lumping republicans into one bucket, I'm lumping trump supporters into one bucket. The difference between you and them is that even if you liked his policies, you weren't willing to give up your morals for them. It doesn't matter why anyone supports trump and his sycophants, I'm sure there are a thousand different reasons. But every single one of those who voted that way were willing to accept the lying, the corruption, the blatant incompetence, the human rights violations, the racism and bigotry, and the complete lack of moral compass of this administration and vote for more of it.
The fact that so many could do that is a very real concern, because the next trump might not be an idiot, they might be someone with a darker purpose than just lining their own pockets and the ability to organize and motivate, and they have a ready made army who have shown that they're all too happy to toss out their principles for anyone who promises them what they want.
trump might lose the presidency, but the danger of these people hasn't gone anywhere, and I don't think it's just an American problem. The fight is far from over.
 
Yeah people putting in their lot with the likes of Trump in some sort transactional support for a few of the issues they share or to gain in their own or their party's wants or power have come as close as you can in real life to a faustian bargain. Even worse for those people that pretend to have any religious devotion while doing it or just think of themselves a good person. I feel completely legitimate in not only having no respect for the likes of people that have done that, but also feel justified in those people being deservingly reviled. It's not like their is some minor tax differences or conflict in naming in bridge somewhere. If people chose a scumbag like Trump with all the vile things he's done so they could get billionaires and big bussinesses even more tax breaks(pretty much his only significant legislative accomplishment), disproportionately scapegoat immigrants for troubles they had relatively little cause in but it makes them feel good, nominate a few Supreme Court justices in a shady manner and one who themselves seems like a scumbag, wanting to stop abortions while utterly not giving a shit about people after they are born, don't like homosexual people having the same rights as everybody else when it almost in no way effects them, because some SJWs antics somewhere irritated them a little, or because they felt the need to have a magazine for their gun they can fit 50 bullets into, then to be frank those people can fuck off. If the situation was reversed and it was a Democrat who did what Trump has done I would feel the same way.

It's bad enough it's only a minor step away form the thought process of a person in WWII era Italy that said, "You know I don't really like the genocide, the concentration camps, the dictatorship, the war crimes, the aggressive war that will be our fault and will kill millions, but I really love the way that Mussolini guy makes the trains run on time so I'm going to support him. Then being upset and playing the victim by claiming they only have some political differences when fellow people and history end up despising them.
 
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Theopolis Q. Hossenffer

Every Nation Needs a God-Emperor!
I'm not lumping republicans into one bucket, I'm lumping trump supporters into one bucket. The difference between you and them is that even if you liked his policies, you weren't willing to give up your morals for them. It doesn't matter why anyone supports trump and his sycophants, I'm sure there are a thousand different reasons. But every single one of those who voted that way were willing to accept the lying, the corruption, the blatant incompetence, the human rights violations, the racism and bigotry, and the complete lack of moral compass of this administration and vote for more of it.
The fact that so many could do that is a very real concern, because the next trump might not be an idiot, they might be someone with a darker purpose than just lining their own pockets and the ability to organize and motivate, and they have a ready made army who have shown that they're all too happy to toss out their principles for anyone who promises them what they want.
trump might lose the presidency, but the danger of these people hasn't gone anywhere, and I don't think it's just an American problem. The fight is far from over.
My sentiments exactly.

Even though, I am neither American nor living anywhere nearby, Trump being a conservative (at least by name and party) is in demand at certain parts in the world, notably the Arab part. I was accosted yesterday by a "I do not like Trump" guy who told me that he would have preferred if Trump hadn't lost due to his views on abortion, gay marriage and guns.
Lotta that going around. If this keeps up either the Last Man Standing Rule will go into effect(last man standing after the war wins) or if you are not male, white, religious,(outwardly anyway), and believe women belong in the home you better be careful. As I have said before, humans are Tribal and have advanced technologically faster than their minds and culture can adapt. Someone from the 17th century could have been dropped into the 18th with little problem, however from the 19th or early(pre 1950) 20th into today and be lost.
 
I feel completely legitimate in not only having no respect for the likes of people that have done that, but also feel justified in those people being deservingly reviled. It's not like their is some minor tax differences or conflict in naming in bridge somewhere.

Yup, been here for a while. No respect for these people. Not having to coexist with them is the primary reason I'm glad I don't live in the states anymore.

Edit: Beau of the Fifth Column just made a video discussing exactly this. It's a very good watch.
 
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mcconnell plans to wield veto power over Biden's cabinet picks. If Joe thinks he's going to reunite congress he's setting himself up for a fall. Once again, dems make the fatal mistake of expecting decency from republicans.

Edit: apparently the trump approach of appointing "acting" cabinet officials doesn't need permission from the senate. I hope Joe is ballsy enough to take that route.
 
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