That's definately the hardest part about being an A's fan, you can't buy any of the jerseys because they never seem to last.
2008 MLB Thread
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That's definately the hardest part about being an A's fan, you can't buy any of the jerseys because they never seem to last.
It's amazing to think of the good players that have started on the As the last 15 years and moved on to someplace else.
It doesn't bother me so much when my favorite sports teams do it. I was always more a fan of the colors as the saying goes than the people in them. Just as long as it will make my team better in the long run.
So true. Let's see, I've gone through, (in no particular order)... a McGwire, Canseco, Henderson, Lansford, Steinbach, Hudson, Mulder, Zito, Harden, Tejada, Giambi, Hernandez, Blanton, Haren, and Swisher jerseys in the past decade or so. My wife usually gets me one every Christmas, and I'm sure she's frustrated by the here on day gone the next tendency of the players on my team.
I don't really mind too much, because of these two words: Billy Beane. I have full faith in him like I've never had in an GM I've ever known of. I've never seen anyone get the most potential out of the most obscure players than he has. And it's becoming less and less obscure every year.
shayd;2397989I said:
No offense,but what the fuck has Billy Beane done for your team lately? He's has to be the worst GM in the league.All the A's do is develop talent for other teams.I will admit that giving up Mulder and Zito was definitely the right thing to do considering their ineffectiveness,one due to injury and the other just plain 'ol suck.And I understand them giving that pitcher to the Cubs (shit,can't even remember his name right now),he can barely go 5-6 innings,but some of the other moves are head scratchers.
Dumping Haren was probably the stupidest thing to do ever.They would've had a good one two punch with him and Duqushire(sp.?),but they pissed that away.What did they even get from AZ for Haren,prospects?Seems like a waste to me.
I'm personally of the opinion that the A's have absolutely no intention of even trying to win anything anymore with the ridiculous moves that they make,but that's just my :2 cents:.
It's always good policy for a club to get rid of the overpaid, past-prime, aging relic...look at Pedro, Nomar, Mo Vaughn...they never amounted to shit after they left Boston. Same will most likely happen with Manny. He's already done everything he can in his career. There's nothing left for him to do...We all know why Clemens "amounted to shit" hintimpdaddy:nono:
You might want to check your facts again. Mo Vaughn had two good seasons with Anaheim after Boston 'got rid of him'. Pedro Martinez had a good season with the Mets the season after Boston 'got rid of him'. You are wrong on these two and you will be wrong with Ramirez. The man can still mash with the best of them, and he has a lot to prove.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/v/vaughmo01.shtml
http://www.baseball-reference.com/m/martipe02.shtml
Yeah,from what I remember,Vaughn really wasn't that good as soon as he went to the Mets,although,having 181 strikeouts in his second season in Anaheim really doesn't count for a good season either,no matter what the rest of your stats are.That's just waaaaay too many strikeouts.
Nobody is calling him Tony Gwynn. Vaughn still had two good seasons with the Angels no matter what you say. Mo still batted a respectable .270 and drove in over 100 runs. That is a good season. it definitely wasn't "nothing" like titsrock alluded to.
Mo Vaughn got injured in what, his first game as an Angel? I remember watching it on ESPN. He was never the same player after that injury and HARDLY WORTH THE $80mil contract the Angels gave him. Come on. Keep things in perspective. That was one of the worst free agent signings in modern baseball.
Pedro hasn't done shit for the Mets because he's too fragile. He isn't the dominator he once was. He's done. He's been in the league since...hmm..FOREVER--the Dodgers/The Expos/The Red Sox/The Mets..that's a lot of seasons he's logged. He's done.
Nomar has been a flop in LA. Derek Lowe has pitched great, for the most part, but the Dodgers can't score runs for him. He loses way too much.
Credit to Epstein to know when a player has bottomed out. Manny has bottomed out and will play hard for the Dodgers for the remaining 2 months of the season. Get a huge contract..and then it's time for "Manny being Manny" nonsense...
Yes. Perspective, let's keep that in mind. Your original statement was that he didn't amount to shit after Boston let him go. Why bring the contract up now? That is not for you to decide if he was worth $80 million dollars. Yes, Vaughn got injured in the first game and still averaged 30+ homeruns and 100+ RBI in two seasons with Anaheim. Big Mo still produced after Boston let him go.
Just like Mo, Pedro produced after Boston let him go. Look at his 2005 season. 15-8 and a 2.32 ERA. If that is amounting to shit, post Red Sox, what isn't?
No. Credit to Epstein for getting rid of head cases, not "bottomed out players".
I think that you misread my post.I felt that he played well for the Angels but anytime someone strikes out 181 times in a season,that's not good no matter how you look at it,even if he had a good average and 30+ homers.When he went to the Mets,that's when he was done.
I do think that you are right though Spunner,he didn't suck as soon as he left Boston.Same with Pedro.
Although,6 years for $88 million,and only playing two years of that contract didn't look good either.I can't say that I blame the Angels for making that deal,but the fact remains that it was a bust of a deal but it ultimately worked out in the Angel's favor after trading him to the Mets.
Spunner is absolutely right. The stats don't lie. They can't lie. It's all about the stats. And Manny is one of the most consistent hitters of the modern generation; if you don't agree then just look at the stats, you'll see that I'm not lying. He's hitting .303 with 21 HRs and 70 RBI so far this season. Where is all this bottomed out/washed up talk even coming from? Not from evidence, that's for sure.
The game against the Angels today was the best game I've seen the Yankees play all year. If they would show this much heart every game they would be damn near unbeatable. They ususally just roll over and die when they get behind.
If his role is to hit home runs and drive in runs, which was Mo's role, then the strikeout numbers aren't that significant. Don't get me wrong, a groundout is better than a strikeout, without a doubt; it gives the fielders a chance to make an error and/or for the baserunners to advance. However, just look at Ryan Howard, he's leading the NL in RBI and he's second in the MLB in home runs, yet he has 143 strikeouts in just 418 at-bats; last season he hit 47 home runs and drove in 136 runs, but struck out a single-season record 199 times. Even in his MVP year where he hit .313 with 58 home runs and 149 RBI he struck out, guess what, 181 times, the exact number you were saying is "not good no matter how you look at it." *zell eating his words*
Not eating my words,I just meant that striking out 181 times isn't a good thing,period.I didn't mean that just because a guy has 181 strikeouts he's necessarily having a terrible year.You brought up the exact reason why it's better to put the ball in play than to set a new strikeout record.
Oh and nice of you to leave out the fact that while Howard had 47 HRs and 136 RBIs,he only hit .268,and his slugging % and OBP were also down from the previous year,plus he grounded into more DPs than he ever had in his short career.All that to say,looking back at it,even with gaudy HR and RBI totals,what did he(supposedly the best player on the team) do to help his team win? The answer,not much because they got swept out of the first round of the playoffs,and I'm sure that having 199 strikeouts that season didn't help out either.
And if you would have been paying attention,I did say in bold print that I thought that he (Big Mo)didn't suck immediately after leaving Boston(which means while he was in Anaheim).
After reading it,I guess it seems like I kinda contradicted myself,but I hope that I've explained my opinion more clearly.
RBI is the most overrated statistic in all of sports and is not very good to evaluate players on. Keep in mind that 30 home runs also wasn’t that outstanding when he did it considering it seems like the entire league was putting up those numbers. I also don't see why somebody's contract can't be figured in against them. If somebody has a huge salary and doesn’t perform they are hurting their team in more ways than just there performance, even in baseball with no salary cap or real revenue sharing. In a lot of situations it's much better to have somebody a lot cheaper than to have somebody that is only marginally better but cost a ridiculous amount more because at least with the cheaper player you can spend money elsewhere. In fact somebody that's going to be costing more when there performance is almost guaranteed to decline the next few years, if for nothing else than do to age at least, is one of the best reasons to let them go. Anybody that thinks Manny is going to hold his level of production for the next couple of years short of pulling a Barry Bonds (and even he most likely used drugs to do it) is probably in for a big surprise, especially if they give him a contract like he has now. So in a sense not only can you blame the lack of person with a huge contracts productivity on him you can also blame the lack of other parts of the team where they could have shored things up.
Strikeouts on the whole aren't that big of a deal as long as everything else is good. An out is an out. At least striking out you don't ground into a double play. That makes up much for the slight chance a fielder makes an error or the occasional potential sacrifice.
As far as Billy Bean goes he's not psychic and even he will make mistakes from time to time but with...maybe...the sole exception of the New England Patriots the last decade he has run the best sports organization since almost all of us on the board have been alive. Even now part of the reason he doesn't seem quite as ahead of other like in the past is because many other teams started doing what Bean was doing and started emulating him in some respects, especially the Red Sox. I don't know of any other team that has done more with less for as long as the As have. It's also better to be good every year and have a reasonable chance each year than to set everything up for one year when you know your still not the strongest team and still probably won't make it when it's going to mortgage your teams future for the next five after that. Also like with the Red Sox they almost always know when to let players go.
Strikeouts on the whole aren't that big of a deal as long as everything else is good. An out is an out. At least striking out you don't ground into a double play. That makes up much for the slight chance a fielder makes an error or the occasional potential sacrifice.
As far as Billy Bean goes he's not psychic and even he will make mistakes from time to time but with...maybe...the sole exception of the New England Patriots the last decade he has run the best sports organization since almost all of us on the board have been alive. Even now part of the reason he doesn't seem quite as ahead of other like in the past is because many other teams started doing what Bean was doing and started emulating him in some respects, especially the Red Sox. I don't know of any other team that has done more with less for as long as the As have. It's also better to be good every year and have a reasonable chance each year than to set everything up for one year when you know your still not the strongest team and still probably won't make it when it's going to mortgage your teams future for the next five after that. Also like with the Red Sox they almost always know when to let players go.
I was kinda going along with you until you started to praise Beane.If you think that the A's have one of the best organizations in sports,then ask yourself this question,when was the last time that the A's won or even been to the World Series for that matter?
If you're satisfied with being just good enough and competitive,then go right ahead rooting for for a team that will tease you once every 3 to 4 years and won't have shit to show for it in the end.
The A's are trying to do what the Marlins have successfully done,and that's win a championship,blow it up and win it again.Sure it took 10 years to do,but look at the Cubs,Indians,hell look at most of the league!A lot of teams build and rebuild and in the end,they come up short time and time again.
Trying to defend Billy Beane is like trying to defend Adolph Hitler.Sure he created the autobahn,but look at what else he did.
And yes,it's a good thing to be good every year,but when you keep knockin' on the door and no one is answering,then heads will roll eventually.Do you think that the fans out in NY are happy with the Yankees coming up short every year?I don't think so.
No, you're not eating your words, but you should be.
Yeah, .268, that's not bad. The league batting average is .262; but the league home run and RBI average is quite a bit lower than 47 and 136. In fact, those two stats were both good for second in the NL last season. And of course his slugging percentage and OBP were down from the year before, he hit .313 with 58 home runs the year before. And yet, his OBP last season was .392, compared to his career OBP of .382, and his slugging percentage was only two points lower than his career average. Double plays? Wow, you're really reaching for relevant points to make here, since this isn't one.
Another irrelevant point, up until this point we had only been discussing the number of strikeouts he accumulated during the regular season, the regular season in which he and his Phillies won the NL East, so bringing up the fact that they lost in the playoffs is just another example of you reaching for relevant points to make. Sadly, you didn't achieve that here either. And the 199 strikeouts surely didn't help he and the Phillies win their division either, that's quite obvious since strikeouts, from the perspective of batting, is a negative statistic which produces an out.
Yeah, you definitely did contradict yourself:
There's that, which I've clearly explained is a completely incorrect statement, and then there's this:
Ready to eat your words now?
