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your opinions on zionism?

then it could be argued it should go back to the oldest reasonably cohesive people that had a claim to it at one time, which is probably the Israelis.

Sadly, too many people seem to believe this without being aware of the facts. Genetic analysis indicates that part or the majority of Palestinians come from the native populations of Jews and Christians who converted to Islam during the seventh century. Genetic analysis also indicates that modern day Palestinians and Jews have shared Neolithic ancestors from the region. So, genetics makes it clear that both groups have historical claims on the land.

The difference is that while the Jewish Diaspora occurred, and Jews emigrated to far flung places like Europe, Russia, North Africa, and so on, the people known today as Palestinian continued to reside in roughly the same area. Then, of course, this happened:

http://www.hamdden.co.uk/Images/Palestinian_land_loss_Map.jpg

Palestinians were forcibly displaced to make room for this new creation, and Jews who had possessed no connection to the region for centuries, suddenly migrated from all around the world to the new state.

The Zionist claim to Palestine is about as logical as an Irish claim on the area around the Rhine and Danube, because they are the earliest known centres of Celtish culture. Just because your people may have historically originated from a place, it does not mean you can push people out of their homes to make room because you'd suddenly like to live there again.
 

PlasmaTwa2

The Second-Hottest Man in my Mother's Basement
I do not care for Israel. For some reason they rub me the wrong way.

Anyone ever notice that people bitch about Iran having nukes, but when it is a widely accepted fact that Israel has a couple, no one cares?

Let them fight it out for the land. It's going to happen eventually, so why not start it...
 

ChefChiTown

The secret ingredient? MY BALLS
what do ya'll think about zionism? i personally believe supporting israel should be our top priority. we should continue paying money to strengthen the country and then we should make sure the enemy middle-east countries are stripped off their military power so that israel is not in harm's way.

Why the fuck should our top priority be to help somebody else? :dunno: Call me crazy, but shouldn't our top priority be to help ourselves? Our mentality, as a country, with this kind shit is so ass-backwards that it's ridiculous.

Starving children in Africa? - We have to help them, right now! Quick, send them millions and millions of dollars to help!

Starving children in our own country? - Eh, give them a can of green beans. They'll be fine.
 
Anyone ever notice that people bitch about Iran having nukes, but when it is a widely accepted fact that Israel has a couple, no one cares?

That's probably because Israel has a track record of being responsible with them. They've had them for some time and though routinely provoked they've never used them. Furthermore Isreal doesn't advocate the extermination of Arab states the way some Arab states do towards Isreal. Throw in the fact Isreal is a stable, westernized democracy while Iran's president Ahmandinejad is a holocaust denier (i.e. completely delusional) and it's easy to understand why this dichotomy exists.
 
Israel is not a democracy. It's a myth. It's easy for them to style themselves as a democracy because they have a controlled population, but if they allowed the refugees to return home--the people they have expelled against all international law-- you would see the facade of democracy fall in a hurry. The biggest mythical sacred cow in western politics is that Israel's interests are compatible with America's interests. They are not. The fact that we bankroll and arm this illegeal colonial settler state is the reason we all have targets on our backs.
 
Well then meredith, since sovereign nations, and powerful ones in particular, are notoriously self-serving, why do we bankroll Israel if Israel doesn't serve our best interests?

(I'm pretty sure I already know your answer, but what the heck...)
 
why? can't we as a human race go beyond religion ism and fight for something more worthy like our souls against the inevitable evil that surrounds the world it doesn't really matter what faith one subscribes to we're all fucked in the end the point is ... nobody's perfect not even Jesus ... if he was there would be no religion anymore ... and Jesus was a Zionist typically all Christians are ... not really ... but yeah anyways if Judea/Christian belief was at its core then the fundamental beliefs of all human beings would be the same ... what I'm saying is religion doesn't have any precedence over science ... we all have to admit where we came from and where we are going ... that is ... hell after one is able to admit that, then and only then can they experience eternal bliss in the heavenly realms:angels:
 

Vagina

Banned
why? can't we as a human race go beyond religion ism and fight for something more worthy like our souls against the inevitable evil that surrounds the world it doesn't really matter what faith one subscribes to we're all fucked in the end the point is ... nobody's perfect not even Jesus ... if he was there would be no religion anymore ... and Jesus was a Zionist typically all Christians are ... not really ... but yeah anyways if Judea/Christian belief was at its core then the fundamental beliefs of all human beings would be the same ... what I'm saying is religion doesn't have any precedence over science ... we all have to admit where we came from and where we are going ... that is ... hell after one is able to admit that, then and only then can they experience eternal bliss in the heavenly realms:angels:

for the last time, it's not a religious matter. its about a homeland for the jewish people. why do you keep saying the same bullshit that every typical anti-semite says?
 
It's about a homeland for the Jewish people on land that was already occupied. The only claim Jews have to it is based on their book of mythology, that most of the world does not subscribe to.
 

Vagina

Banned
It's about a homeland for the Jewish people on land that was already occupied. The only claim Jews have to it is based on their book of mythology, that most of the world does not subscribe to.

That's not true, historical records prove that Ancient Israel existed.
 
For about sixty years at best, and that doesn't invalidate the ownership of the lad by the people who have actually been occupying it for centuries.
 

Vagina

Banned
For about sixty years at best, and that doesn't invalidate the ownership of the lad by the people who have actually been occupying it for centuries.

Look, Jews were there first. The Kingdom of Israel existed. The Jews were exiled and enslaved by the Egyptians and persecuted so many times throughout history. Are you honestly trying to argue that the Jews can't have a land of their own?
 

Will E Worm

Conspiracy...
For about sixty years at best, and that doesn't invalidate the ownership of the lad by the people who have actually been occupying it for centuries.

Evidence of a Jewish presence in Israel dates back 3,400 years, to the formation of the religion. The name "Jews" derives from their origin in Judah. Over the course of this long history, the Jews have several times been dispersed and then returned from exile.

They have been around for awhile. ;)
 
Look, Jews were there first. The Kingdom of Israel existed. The Jews were exiled and enslaved by the Egyptians and persecuted so many times throughout history. Are you honestly trying to argue that the Jews can't have a land of their own?

Yes, if they steal land already occupied by other people. that's exactly what I'm saying.
 
Evidence of a Jewish presence in Israel dates back 3,400 years, to the formation of the religion. The name "Jews" derives from their origin in Judah. Over the course of this long history, the Jews have several times been dispersed and then returned from exile.

They have been around for awhile. ;)

So what?
 
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