War, what is it good for?

[Supafly]

You say the Palestinian civilians in Gaza "need to pack up and leave".

I ask again: How do you suggest they do so?

Let me simplify:
You and your family are Palestinians in Gaza right now. You despise Hamas and have never voted for them. You decide you "need to pack up and leave".
Please tell us exactly what you do in the next few days and weeks.

You pack the essentials, and make for Egypt. They take in Gaza inhabitants

Egypt signaled a measure of willingness on October 12 for its border with the Gaza Strip to become an outlet for Gaza residents seeking refuge. As fighting raged into a sixth day and Israel’s retaliatory strikes for the weekend massacre by Hamas caused mass displacement among Palestinians, the Foreign Ministry in Cairo said it was preparing to use the Rafah crossing on the Egypt-Gaza border to bring in aid.

https://www.fdd.org/analysis/2023/10/12/egypt-signals-openness-on-its-gaza-border-as-crisis-mounts/

There will be more.

If you were against Hamas all the time, you should have left Gaza years ago. It is a little country wqith an administratzion very openly terrorist. If you do not think that through, that is what happens eventually, and now the hammer falls.

 

[tvstrip]

Black ops headshot. The Mossad is the best intelligence service their is. They could just be patient and put a round through his melon from 3 or 4 hundred yards out.

100%. They could take out the key hamas leadership with minimal casualties if they wanted to.

Does Canada give them any funds? America is pumping 3 billion a year into that country. 3 billion that could be used to help the elderly, children, and homeless vets and citizens, so I get it. I don't even pay taxes anymore, and I hold a grudge for the 35 plus years I did pay taxes.

As a matter of fact, they don't just give money, they give them weapons too:

https://www.justpeaceadvocates.ca/end-canadian-support-for-israeli-military/

Canada sold $20 million worth of weapons to Israel in 2020. It provides explosives and related components to the Israeli military. Arming Apartheid: Canada’s Arms Exports to Israel finds that Canada’s arms exports to Israel reached a 30-year high in 2020. The transfer of military goods to a violent occupying force is inconsistent with Canada’s obligations under international treaties.

https://www.cjpme.org/arming_apartheid

The annual value of Canada’s exports of military goods to Israel have been accelerating in recent years, and in 2020 reached their highest level in over three decades, even when adjusted for inflation.
This current trend has continued despite the well-documented problem of ongoing Israeli violence against Palestinians, including (but not limited to) repeated military offensives in the Gaza Strip and armed violence conducted in the context of a military occupation.

And those figures are backed up by the Canadian government:
https://www.international.gc.ca/tra...ds-2022-marchandises-militaires.aspx?lang=eng

Tl;dr: Yes, Canada sends money and weapons to them

 

[tvstrip]

You pack the essentials, and make for Egypt. They take in Gaza inhabitants
https://www.fdd.org/analysis/2023/10/12/egypt-signals-openness-on-its-gaza-border-as-crisis-mounts/

Did you read the article you linked to? It doesn't say Egypt will take in refugees. What is says is that it is looking to open the border to send aid into Gaza via Rafa, the ONLY crossing that exists:

Cairo said it was preparing to use the Rafah crossing on the Egypt-Gaza border to bring in aid.

And even that isn't certain because it's not safe for those aid trucks to go into Gaza

Egyptian officials said aid shipments from Qatar and Jordan will land in Sinai’s Al Arish International Airport, with their cargo awaiting a humanitarian corridor into Gaza for delivery. Israel has not yet formally offered to open up such a corridor, however.

Let's get some other credible sources to weigh in on Oct 13 as to whether Palestinians can get into Egypt:

https://apnews.com/article/israel-h...pt-sinai-war-894d45535fed1049a0076453ca99c555

Israel sealed off the Gaza Strip, stopping all entry of food, water, medicine and fuel to its 2.3 million people, while bombardment has leveled swaths of its cities. That has left Egypt’s Rafah crossing as the sole access. But repeated Israeli airstrikes at the Palestinian side of the crossing have forced it to stop operating, Egypt’s Foreign Ministry said, leaving trucks of aid stopped on the Egyptian side.

A senior Egyptian security official told The Associated Press that Egypt has taken “unprecedented measures” to prevent a breach to its borders with Gaza. Thousands of security forces have been deployed at the border, he said.
In 2008, Hamas militants blasted through the border fence with Egypt, allowing hundreds of thousands of people to flood into Sinai. The state-run al-Ahram daily reported that Egyptian authorities warned Hamas’ leaders in recent days against any repeat of that.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/rafah-border-gaza-egypt-israel-1.6994234
No way out for civilians in Gaza, with Egypt's border crossing closed

Those who have been displaced can move, but they can't actually leave the territory because the Egypt-controlled Rafah border crossing remains sealed, and Israel is not allowing any alternative paths out.
"Nobody can leave Gaza — nobody," said Bushra Khalidi, a policy lead with Oxfam, speaking with CBC News Network from the West Bank on Thursday.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/10/13/egypt-gaza-border-palestinian-refugees-israel/
As Israel pummels besieged Gaza, Egypt resists opening up to refugees

But Cairo, wary of political fallout and security risks, is determined to prevent an exodus of refugees to Egypt — warning it could be a death knell for the Palestinian dream of statehood.
The crossing point at Gaza’s southern edge has been effectively closed since Tuesday after Israeli airstrikes damaged infrastructure in the area.

If you were against Hamas all the time, you should have left Gaza years ago. It is a little country wqith an administratzion very openly terrorist. If you do not think that through, that is what happens eventually, and now the hammer falls.

The situation hasn't changed in years, especially since Hamas came into power. The Gaza border with Israel is one of the most heavily fortified in the world. And while Egypt has taken in some refugees over the years, they had to stop because they were literally the only ones who were doing so, and there was no way they could take in the entire population.

Do you honestly think that people would willingly choose live to live in a place like that? The idea that people in Gaza could "have left years ago" is pure fantasy and not remotely connected to reality.

 

[Supafly]

Well, the population of Gaza elected Hamas as their Admin, and have not managed to push for a new vote. Yeah, as so many other islamic countries, they aren't so big on democracy. Kind of proves my point. They made their bed with Hamas, now they have to sleep in it.

As a German, I stand by Israel and that they shall NEVER have to fear external enemies again, and I see it like this:

There actually are no Palestinians.

So the muslim citizens of the occupied strips should be distributed to other countries. Noone wants them? Why is that, I ask. Because they live on the tit of way too many sponsors, instead of working and living on their own wages.

Send them to Iran, and make Gaza a part of Israel.

 

[Harpsman]

Jesus wept! Some of the suggestions here are so 'going with the narrative' I wonder can some people not think for themselves.

After discussing the Billions of Military aid given to Israel we now have

Because they live on the tit of way too many sponsors

Palestinians being labelled spongers who should just pack up and move on. Move along to a nice fresh patch in the 15 x 5 mile strip of land you are imprisoned in, with no water, food, fuel or electricity. A hellhole of a place where conditions are controlled by the very people who should have some historical understanding of man's inhumanity to man.

 

[Harpsman]

Pack up and leave seems to be a fatal decision.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-middle-east-67108364

 

[Mr. Daystar]

https://www.yahoo.com/gma/rules-war-apply-israels-actions-234600923.html

Here's a funny article to read. Funny how, you ask? Because it suggests that the rules are being followed, and funnier because the US has warned Israel. Now that's comedy right there.

The only way one can play by the rules, is if everyone does, but no one does, so out the window they go. Israel could handle this without massive air strikes, and missile attacks, and the Palestinian people that aren't with hamas, could help, by turning on them, and aiding in their locations, but they won't.

 

[tvstrip]

Courtesy of @Orban89

 

[Mr. Daystar]

https://www.yahoo.com/gma/exclusive-us-send-2nd-aircraft-212428273.html

A second carrier group is on it's way, somebody knows something. Of course it's great to see how we're spending all of our resources babysitting other countries. Fortunately the politicians and other countries won't have to pay, because the tax payers are hard at work.

 

[tvstrip]

Well, the population of Gaza elected Hamas as their Admin, and have not managed to push for a new vote.

I would have thought that as a German, you would have more compassion and understanding for people in a situation like this.

To my point: imagine a population in a dire situation elected someone as their Admin who looks promising, and when it turns out he wasn't a good choice, they have a difficult time managing to push for a new vote to dislodge him from power. It then takes the total destruction of the country for a regime change. Does this sound familiar?

 

[Supafly]

Yes, and that is what will happen. Gaza in its form today will cease to exist.

 

[tvstrip]

Yes, and that is what will happen. Gaza in its form today will cease to exist.

In case I was being too subtle, do you realize the analogy I was alluding to in the above post? Just want to make sure it is not lost in translation.

 

[Supafly]

That is your opinion / perspective.

I am looking at the current situation, the build-up in the region, and, well, neither of us has a way to stop what is going down.

So, we will see what the confilct will resolve to, and if you don't like what happens, I am sorry for you.

 

[Harpsman]

Yes, and that is what will happen. Gaza in its form today will cease to exist.

Do you not consider Israel's behaviour as war criminality?

 

[Supafly]

It does not matter what I consider it to be.

 

[Luxman]

Do you not consider Israel's behaviour as war criminality?

Hamas's greed and hatred intentionally murdered and kidnapped defenseless children, women and men.
Now Hamas are hiding like cowards using the hostages and innocent Gaza civilians as human shields.
Blood for blood has been the most basic human law for justice, probably for millions of years.
Many more lives will be lost before they even consider any type of peace negotiations.

 

[tvstrip]

In light of benny's suggestion that Palestinians in Gaza just "move to the south" of the country to avoid the land invasion, it's helpful to realize how small Gaza really is.
https://www.newsweek.com/gaza-strip-size-us-cities-maps-1833863#slideshow/2292665

Imagine how realistic it would be to evacuate half of the entire areas of cities like NYC/Boston/Washington/LA, while facing daily airstrikes, and having no food, water, electricity, etc.

 

[tvstrip]

That is your opinion / perspective.

What is your opinion / perspective on the Bombing of Dresden?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_Dresden_in_World_War_II
https://peacepalacelibrary.nl/blog/2011/dresden-1945-allied-war-crime

And yes, it does matter what you consider it to be.

 

[Supafly]

No it does not. The participants will make their decicions without taking into account the perspectives of some geezers on a porn forum.
But, as you ask about Dresden:

That had to happen in order for the WW2 to end. Nice try, though.

 

[Mr. Daystar]

I'm not a geezer, I'm a curmudgeon.