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Ukraine
- Thread starter mikexmoran
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- news of 2014 ukraine
Ace Boobtoucher
Founder and Captain of the Douchepatrol
Get back on topic, all youse twunts. What was the topic again? How many friends and/or business associates do you have in federal prison? Compare your answer to the president of the United States. No, that doesn't seem right. Something about Poland or Lithuania or some such.
Jagger69
Three lullabies in an ancient tongue
Yeah, while I really don't approve of Obama's handling of much of our foreign policy, it's laughable that some here are trying to imply some other scenario that the big, bad republicans would be able to pull off under these circumstances if they had the chance. I mean, what alternative is there short of a nuclear war which, hopefully, no one wants? Putin wants to protect his navy bases in the Crimea. Totally understandable. For such a huge nation, Russian has remarkably little sea access that isn't icebound for much of the year. Vladivostok, Murmansk and St. Petersburg cannot supplant the warm-water ports that Russia has in the Black Sea so it is a very tenuous issue for Putin. He stands to lose face as much or more than Obama does in this standoff. I am hopeful that cooler heads will prevail on both sides and an amicable solution can be found. It isn't necessary for Russia to annex certain parts of Ukraine in order to maintain their bases (much like the situation we have with Guantanamo). How this is accomplished without going to extremes is the question.
Putin knows that most Russians fee the Crimea is a part of Russia. He cannot lose face since Merkel, and other world leaders basically called him a lunatic. The Black Sea Fleet is at least Russia's third most important fleet. The Russians were expanding their secondary base for the BSF at Novorossiysk, in the event their lease with Ukraine for the BSF was not renewed. The Russians really want the shipyards in the Crimea where the Soviet aircraft carriers were built. The Northern and Pacific Fleets are the most important fleets in the Russian Navy. Those two fleets have all of Russia's SSBNs. The Russians have the most powerful icebreaker fleet in the world, among them are the only nuclear icebreakers currently in service.
I made a mistake the Soviet carriers were not built on the Crimea.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/world...b955b8-a48c-11e3-a5fa-55f0c77bf39c_story.html
The Soviet military had a blank budget when came to the military spending. I think this article has good points, but states little on Russia' military capabilities.
vodkazvictim
Why save the world, when you can rule it?
Ukraine's Crimea seeks to become independent state
Associated Press By MARIA DANILOVA
KIEV, Ukraine (AP) — The Crimean parliament voted Tuesday that the Black Sea peninsula will declare itself an independent state if its residents agree to split off from Ukraine and join Russia in a referendum.
Crimea's regional legislature on Tuesday adopted a "declaration of independence of the Autonomous Republic of Crimea." The document specified that Crimea will become an independent state if its residents vote on Sunday in favor of joining Russia in the referendum.
Western nations have said they will not recognize the vote as legitimate. But the move might be used as an attempt to ease tensions with Crimea existing as a self-proclaimed state without Russia moving quickly to incorporate it into its territory.
After a brief war between Russia and Georgia in 2008, some leaders sin Georgia's breakaway provinces of Abkhazia and South Ossetia also asked to join Russia, but their request was never granted.
Meanwhile, Ukraine's acting president on Tuesday called for the formation of a national guard and for the mobilization of reserves and volunteers into the country's armed forces.
Oleksandr Turchynov asked the national parliament to approve turning the country's Interior Ministry troops into a National Guard "to defend the country and citizens against any criminals, against external and internal aggression."
Turchynov said that the mobilization will include those who have previously served in the army and volunteers.
Russian forces have strengthened their control over Ukraine's Crimea region in the run-up to a referendum set for Sunday on whether to split off and become part of Russia.
Ukrainian Prime Minister Arseniy Yatsenyuk, who will fly to Washington to meet with Barack Obama on Wednesday, called on Western nations to defend Ukraine against a nation "that is armed to the teeth and that has nuclear weapons."
Meanwhile, Ukraine's fugitive president, Viktor Yanukovych, accused the country's new government of fomenting civil war.
Yatsenyuk asked Russia, the U.S. and European Union member Britain to abide by a treaty signed in 1994, in which they pledged to guarantee Ukraine's security in exchange for giving up its Soviet-era nuclear weapons.
"We are not asking for anything from anyone," Yatsenyuk told parliament. "We are asking for just one thing: military aggression has been used against our country. Those who guaranteed that this aggression will not take place, must from the one side pull out troops and from the other side must defend our independent, sovereign state."
Parliament was to vote later Wednesday on the motion on mobilization and the appeal to the West.
Yanukovych, speaking in the southern Russian city of Rostov-on-Don, repeated the Russian claim that the new Ukrainian authorities are kowtowing to radical nationalists, and that they posed a threat to Russian-speaking eastern regions.
Yanukovych, who fled last month after months of protests, said he would soon return to Ukraine.
Associated Press By MARIA DANILOVA
KIEV, Ukraine (AP) — The Crimean parliament voted Tuesday that the Black Sea peninsula will declare itself an independent state if its residents agree to split off from Ukraine and join Russia in a referendum.
Crimea's regional legislature on Tuesday adopted a "declaration of independence of the Autonomous Republic of Crimea." The document specified that Crimea will become an independent state if its residents vote on Sunday in favor of joining Russia in the referendum.
Western nations have said they will not recognize the vote as legitimate. But the move might be used as an attempt to ease tensions with Crimea existing as a self-proclaimed state without Russia moving quickly to incorporate it into its territory.
After a brief war between Russia and Georgia in 2008, some leaders sin Georgia's breakaway provinces of Abkhazia and South Ossetia also asked to join Russia, but their request was never granted.
Meanwhile, Ukraine's acting president on Tuesday called for the formation of a national guard and for the mobilization of reserves and volunteers into the country's armed forces.
Oleksandr Turchynov asked the national parliament to approve turning the country's Interior Ministry troops into a National Guard "to defend the country and citizens against any criminals, against external and internal aggression."
Turchynov said that the mobilization will include those who have previously served in the army and volunteers.
Russian forces have strengthened their control over Ukraine's Crimea region in the run-up to a referendum set for Sunday on whether to split off and become part of Russia.
Ukrainian Prime Minister Arseniy Yatsenyuk, who will fly to Washington to meet with Barack Obama on Wednesday, called on Western nations to defend Ukraine against a nation "that is armed to the teeth and that has nuclear weapons."
Meanwhile, Ukraine's fugitive president, Viktor Yanukovych, accused the country's new government of fomenting civil war.
Yatsenyuk asked Russia, the U.S. and European Union member Britain to abide by a treaty signed in 1994, in which they pledged to guarantee Ukraine's security in exchange for giving up its Soviet-era nuclear weapons.
"We are not asking for anything from anyone," Yatsenyuk told parliament. "We are asking for just one thing: military aggression has been used against our country. Those who guaranteed that this aggression will not take place, must from the one side pull out troops and from the other side must defend our independent, sovereign state."
Parliament was to vote later Wednesday on the motion on mobilization and the appeal to the West.
Yanukovych, speaking in the southern Russian city of Rostov-on-Don, repeated the Russian claim that the new Ukrainian authorities are kowtowing to radical nationalists, and that they posed a threat to Russian-speaking eastern regions.
Yanukovych, who fled last month after months of protests, said he would soon return to Ukraine.
Jagger69
Three lullabies in an ancient tongue
Crimea certainly has historically been a part of Russia and, 3rd most important fleet or not, the Black Sea presents their only outlet to the Mediterranean so I'm relatively certain that they don't want to give the bases up either. I'm certain you are correct about the shipyards. However, when I said that he would lose face, I meant at home, not abroad. I don't believe that Putin spends a lot of time worrying about how Merkel or any of those outside the borders of the Russian Federation perceive him.
This is such a bad idea. An independent state that has to assume debt, is denied military and other resources...Unify the country. Get Russia's occupying troops out, and lets get this shit sorted.
The problem is Germany in NATO.
They depend heavily on trade with Russia. Without them, all John Kerry's words is just hot air paper tiger.
Germany will get in line, eventually. Russia can't continue as they are. It'll grow beyond NATO very soon, is my guess.
SabrinaDeep
Official Checked Star Member
I don't remember all this fuss when Montenegro left Serbia through a referendum; to the contrary. What goes, comes back, ladies and gentlemen.
The Black Sea bases are must haves for the Russians, but their importance relieve to the rest of Russia's Fleets is overstated by Western media. Yes, I meant the same thing about Putin losing face at home, by surrendering to the demands of the West on Crimea. Russia has a very mucho society. Putin plays to his audience with his shirtless exploits. The Russians are a tough people. I think sanctions will backfire on the West. Russia's democracy is imperfect, but Putin's power comes from his popularity among the Russian people.
Philbert
Banned
I guess that's more due to Russia's ability to obliterate the Western hemisphere as opposed to Serbia's ability to annoy Montenegro.
That's seems to be the big failing of the Democrats and Liberals...they fail to incorporate reality into their thought processes...people don't think Republicans have the answers, they just know the Otrama admin doesn't.
Russia is a mama Grizzly and if we fuck with her "cubs" or her business she'll get a bit grumpy and tear us a new one...she can do this and practical considerations are tantamount now, later right and wrong may enter into it.
Crimea...you are fucked, welcome to the Russian Federation.
The best action the admin can take is nothing...better to not fuck up and to let it happen as it will, the Russians can be dealt with later.
They WILL overextend at some point, they see the past as a shining goal for the future...not a good vision for a megacomplex country like Russia.
Yep...the loud ring of truth.
That is something too think about.
I was grading a paper last night and it was one of those rare times that you see a sophomore giving an analytic perspective instead of restating facts. It was a paper on the economic impact of the Good Friday Treaty of 1998. Interesting analysis and I wouldn't mind discussing this, but it made me think.
There are parallels between Northern Ireland and Crimea. Shades of a land occupied, a divided population in the region whose majority supports the occupation, a divided land if not nation. It is still being played out to see where Crimea lands, but there are comparisons. Cultures are different. I hope there is less grief.
Erin Go Bragh!
...Just a tangential and early St. Patrick's Day Wish to you...not a move to discuss the trouble in Ireland.
There are parallels between Northern Ireland and Crimea. Shades of a land occupied, a divided population in the region whose majority supports the occupation, a divided land if not nation. It is still being played out to see where Crimea lands, but there are comparisons. Cultures are different. I hope there is less grief.
Erin Go Bragh!
...Just a tangential and early St. Patrick's Day Wish to you...not a move to discuss the trouble in Ireland.
While I see your point, and I applaud your student for thinking analytically, I think there is a vast difference between Ireland and the Ukraine in this resistance movement. The Ukraine has not had an armed militia movement for generations. The Soviets put an end to that. This is, perhaps, more like Ireland just getting set up with armed resistance.
That all said, the loss of life, and the global political implications here are lamentable. Lets hope things get solved soon, and not by Russian troops "restoring order."
That all said, the loss of life, and the global political implications here are lamentable. Lets hope things get solved soon, and not by Russian troops "restoring order."
Yup, you got the gist of what I was saying.
Unless the troops are wearing powder blue helmets I don't want to see any troops "restoring order"
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