Ukraine

[MustBeGood]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PyYVJk3_wFI

 

[spacearrow99]

It was under Eisenhower design for the Soviet Union to take Berlin because the US had to deal with taking out Japan by itself. The US supplied the Russians with trucks for transports that helped the Soviet Union push back the Germans after a bad blunder by Hitler not to take Moscow right away after they had ST Petersburg under siege. Hitler halted the Moscow campaign when the Russians where disorganized and on the verge of Moscow being capture. But Hitler wanted to seize the oil fields in the Caucasus in the south that the German south army was having trouble in, Hitler halted the central army and sent them south and by time he secured the Caucasus, winter hit and they were stopped 10 miles outside of Moscow and the tide turned after the winter and Stalin regrouped, Plus trying to take Stalingrad (Vouhgard today) was stupid in the spring campaign of 1943 after they where stopped outside of Moscow.

The Americans in 1942 with the British open up a second front in North Africa and after d Day open a up a third front causing resources being pulled from the Eastern Front and leaving less to hold on after the Russian regroup to defend a 1.500 mile front with 3 mil Germans vs 6 mil Russians.

Yes the Russians won the European theater. Because they faced 3/4 of the Germans force. But if only one front, IMO the Germans take Moscow in the spring after they where bogged down.

The Russian attack and defeat of the Kwantung Army in Manchuria played a major part in Japanese surrender. The Caucasus oilfields supplied at least 70% of the Soviets oil supply during the war, so Hitler made a another by attacking Moscow. After the Battle of Kursk the Russians were going to win, the biggest contribution the allies give to the Russians was strategic bombing of Germany in WWII. The Germans had send most of their fighters to defend their homeland, so the Russians were basically unopposed during later stages of WWII. 80% of German military casualties occurred on the Eastern Front.

 

[MustBeGood]

The Russian attack and defeat of the Kwantung Army in Manchuria played a major part in Japanese surrender. The Caucasus oilfields supplied at least 70% of the Soviets oil supply during the war, so Hitler made a another by attacking Moscow. After the Battle of Kursk the Russians were going to win, the biggest contribution the allies give to the Russians was strategic bombing of Germany in WWII. The Germans had send most of their fighters to defend their homeland, so the Russians were basically unopposed during later stages of WWII. 80% of German military casualties occurred on the Eastern Front.

The Russians attack Japan in Manchuria after being pressured by Truman after Germany felled too open up a second front in the Pacific theater. That was a little too late as we paid a big price in the island hopping campaign with no help to force Japan into a corner.

The Russians prior to operation Barbarossa had troops in the Manchuria. But no major battles took place and Stalin was allowed to use those troops in a recall back to help give him a over whelming number on troop strength in 43-44 to push back the Germans.

But other factors play in like weak Italy drawing resources away and after D Day that stopped the Germans.

My main point is in 42 if Hitler takes Moscow, the leadership is disrupted and he could of then in the spring of 43 send parts of the Nothernn and Central armies to help out the southern army to clean up the Caucasus in the summer of 43.

 

[MustBeGood]

Operation Barabarossa, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fbs1_2TTW7M

Should of put this link first.

Here is the whole series:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2RlFynulQs&list=PLuvWn0S8Os5c6oVsU0m4ZYnhpVYsyEUa3

On the playlist if a tittle fucks up just re-type it on the youtube search with the video tittle and you should get the complete episode.

 

[spacearrow99]

The Russians attack Japan in Manchuria after being pressured by Truman after Germany felled too open up a second front in the Pacific theater. That was a little too late as we paid a big price in the island hopping campaign with no help to force Japan into a corner.

The Russians prior to operation Barbarossa had troops in the Manchuria. But no major battles took place and Stalin was allowed to use those troops in a recall back to help give him a over whelming number on troop strength in 43-44 to push back the Germans.

But other factors play in like weak Italy drawing resources away and after D Day that stopped the Germans.

My main point is in 42 if Hitler takes Moscow, the leadership is disrupted and he could of then in the spring of 43 send parts of the Nothernn and Central armies to help out the southern army to clean up the Caucasus in the summer of 43.

Stalin had troops in Eastern Siberia before the German invasion of the Soviet Union. He had those troops stationed their in case of an Japanese attacked. This was a major blunder by Stalin. The Japanese didn't have a mechanized army, and Siberia is one of the most harshest places on Earth. The Soviets didn't need to station troops in Siberia; the Siberian terrain would've a stopped the Japanese in case of invasion.

The Kwantung Army was one of the most prestigious units and commands in the Japanese military. When the Soviets defeated the Japanese in Manchuria that shocked the Japanese leadership. And considering the casualties sustained in Operation Downfall would dwarf all of island hopping campaigns combined. The Russians did their part in the Pacific.

 

[MustBeGood]

Stalin had troops in Eastern Siberia before the German invasion of the Soviet Union. He had those troops stationed their in case of an Japanese attacked. This was a major blunder by Stalin. The Japanese didn't have a mechanized army, and Siberia is one of the most harshest places on Earth. The Soviets didn't need to station troops in Siberia; the Siberian terrain would've a stopped the Japanese in case of invasion.

The Kwantung Army was one of the most prestigious units and commands in the Japanese military. When the Soviets defeated the Japanese in Manchuria that shocked the Japanese leadership. And considering the casualties sustained in Operation Downfall would dwarf all of island hopping campaigns combined. The Russians did their part in the Pacific.

Thanks for the history lesson on that part.

My basis was on the youtube series that pointed out after the fail attempt to take Moscow how Stalin move troops from the pacific to help.

Will research that part of the war.

 

[spacearrow99]

http://video.foxnews.com/v/3281428808001/ukraine-will-putin-win/?intcmp=obinsite#sp=show-clips

The Chinese will back the Russians, and will not implement any trade sanctions. India has stayed quiet on the matter. Yes, they do much trade with Russia, but many in India government still don't trust the West. The Russians have many cards to play, if the West impose sanctions. The Europeans know the Russians can impose their own sanctions, and withdraw from Intermediate-Range Nuclear Forces Treaty. The Russians destroyed all of their SS-20s but they have been testing a new missile the Rubezh. Many Western defense analysts think the Rubezh missile violates the IRNF treaty, but they Russians are still testing the missile.

 

[CptHa]

The effects of being at war for a decade are starting to hit home. We simply aren't prepared for a confrontation with Russia right now.

 

[spacearrow99]

Russia knows we want send conventional forces, its just to dangerous. There's a reason the Cold War never went hot. Russia's conventional military capabilities dwarf the capabilities of our recent adversaries. Putin wants to fight for Crimea, and he knows the Russian public's behind him. I highly doubt that all of the Western allies will agree to sanctions against Russia. Victory day is a little over two months away, I don't see putting backing down useless he gets demands met by the West.

 

[sean miguel]

Russia knows we want send conventional forces, its just to dangerous. There's a reason the Cold War never went hot. Russia's conventional military capabilities dwarf the capabilities of our recent adversaries.

The threat of nuclear escalation and Mutually Assured Destruction was the primary reason it never went hot. If it were just a conventional war, NATO would've kicked the shit out of the Warsaw Pact circa 1980's. Even back then, the U.S. and it's allies were much more advanced. Ask the 4th largest military in the world in 1991.

 

[sean miguel]

I'm looking at a map of Russia. Who the fuck needs that much land? There's some serious acreage inequality going on.



C'mon BO.

 

[zeeblofowl_1969]

Like that limp dick Romney would suddenly grow man parts??? He'd do a W and go on vacation.

 

[spacearrow99]

The threat of nuclear escalation and Mutually Assured Destruction was the primary reason it never went hot. If it were just a conventional war, NATO would've kicked the shit out of the Warsaw Pact circa 1980's. Even back then, the U.S. and it's allies were much more advanced. Ask the 4th largest military in the world in 1991.

The Soviets, had developed the Oscar II class SSGNS, SS-20 and R-36 missiles. The U. S. didn't have equivalents to these systems. The R-36 is the reason that most of the U. S. nuclear warheads were placed on our SSBNs. The U. S. was well head of Soviets in submarine silencing technology. The Iraqi T-72s used manually turned turrets and we had complete air superiority during the first Gulf War. The Iraqi air defense network was nothing compared to Russia's current air defense network. The Chinese national air defense network is made up of mostly Russian based systems.

 

[sean miguel]

Like that limp dick Romney would suddenly grow man parts??? He'd do a W and go on vacation.

Speaking of Romney:

and that Sarah Palin is an idiot when it comes to foreign affairs. After all, she can't name one newspaper or magazine she reads.

The U.S. is a fucking joke and putin (as well as I) is laughing his ass off.

Seriously, go Russia.

 

[Rey C.]

While I think there are more than a few reasons why the U.S. (foreign policy) is a joke, IMO, this isn't one of them. Clinton signing the Budapest Memorandum was a mistake (just as NAFTA was). But us not always getting involved in B.S. that really doesn't concern or affect us is a sign to me that we're on the right track... maybe - eh, probably not (this is more like a one shot deal, I'm sure).

Want to see a real joke? Here ya go:

UK seeking to ensure Russia sanctions do not harm City of London
Government document photographed outside No 10 states that 'London's financial centre' should not be closed to Russians

Britain is drawing up plans to ensure that any EU action against Russia over Ukraine will exempt the City of London, according to a secret government document photographed in Downing Street.

As David Cameron said Britain and its EU partners would put pressure on Moscow after it assumed control of Crimea, a government document drawn up for a meeting of senior ministers said that "London's financial centre" should not be closed to Russians. It did say that visa restrictions and travel bans could be imposed on Russian officials.

The picture of the document was taken by the freelance photographer Steve Back, who specialises in spotting secret documents carried openly by officials entering Downing Street. The document was in the hands of an unnamed official attending a meeting of the national security council (NSC) called by the prime minister to discuss the Ukrainian crisis.

The document said Britain should:

• "Not support, for now, trade sanctions … or close London's financial centre to Russians."

• Be prepared to join other EU countries in imposing "visa restrictions/travel bans" on Russian officials.

• "Discourage any discussions (eg at Nato) of contingency military preparations."

• Embark on "contingency EU work on providing Ukraine with alternative gas [supplies] if Russia cuts them off".

• Specific threats to Russia should be "contingent and used for private messaging" while public statements should "stick to generic" point. rofl

• Draw up a technical assistance package for Ukraine "ideally jointly with Germany".

• Pursue the "deployment of OSCE and/or UN (but not EU) monitors in Crimea and eastern Ukraine".

• Push the "UN secretary general Ban to take the lead in calling and creating a forum for engaging Russia on Ukraine".

• Accept an emergency summit of EU leaders to discuss Ukraine. This will now be held in Brussels on Thursday.

 

[sean miguel]

While I think there are more than a few reasons why the U.S. (foreign policy) is a joke

The United States as a nation and as a people are a fucking joke. Stupidity reigns.

 

[horn_dog]

Glad to see some don't wan't the US to be the World Police no more. Too bad most Americans don't agree (Remembering all the boos Ron Paul got during the debates when he said the same).

Don't worry about WWIII happening just yet. Russia and China aren't ready to challenge the West. They need to upgrade their weapons systems, maybe by 2020 they have...

 

[xfire]

I haven't really been following the news as of late, but I can't recall anyone pushing for war with Russia. Palin made a prediction that came true, big whoop, a broken clock is right twice a day. What's Obama doing or not doing that the right-wing can really criticize?

 

[Little Red Wagon Repairman]

(Remembering all the boos Ron Paul got during the debates when he said the same)

I used to boo, be dismissive, and discount him as well. I did it because other people made me believe he was bad for America. When their spell lost its power I saw the logic in Ron Paul and continue to do so. Much of the booing was because he pushed back against the Israelis not willing to be their patsy for another war.

Can we stop being suckers being led by a ring in our nose toward our own downfall? For that to happen we must take possession back of our own brain matter.

 

[spacearrow99]

The Russians and China would lose conventional a war against U. S. the far from their territory. But They have totally integrated air defense networks with state of the art radars and missiles. The U. S. has not faced anything that comes close two those networks and would lose a war fought in Russian or Chinese territory. The Russian inherited some top of the line equipment from the Soviet Union. The U. S. cable networks are really bad, most of their retired military analysts seem to know little about Russian military capabilities. The Russians are investing billions of dollars in numerous industries. The Russian economy will be top economy in Europe in 7 to 8 years. The West's leadership to talk useless rhetoric. The West is hooked on Russian natural gas exports. The West alternatives to Russian natural gas in a decade or more. India and China will be Russia's biggest customers for oil and gas in the coming decades.