Most say it's the guns. I say, it's today's society

[Briana Lee]

Unfortunately I dont think a damn thing is going to change even after this massacre. This is going to keep happening and every time we're going to have the same discussion and nothing is going to change. I'm for gun control but people misconstrue what that actually means. I'm not for a total ban on guns, though I do think we should reinstate the assault weapons ban, and this is isn't even a matter of 2nd amendment. All I want to do is make it harder for wackos to have guns, how can anyone disagree with this? Those of us who do support gun control need to be more concrete as to what we mean when we say we support gun control and not demonize those responsible gun owners.

You're totally right. I mean why the hell do normal American citizens need to own assault weapons anyway?! For what reason?!

 

[ApolloBalboa]

It's interesting, I just came across this yesterday, and it bears many similarities to the tragedy that just happened, as well as many others in the past. I guess the question that this poses is, why can England be so proactive when it comes to dealing with situations like these, and we still debate that "there's no harm in having all types of guns be available for everyone, we just can't let everyone have all types of guns"?

Hungerford Massacre and its resulting action The Firearms (Amendment) Act 1988.

Is what just happened the catalyst for our nation to follow Britain's example?

 

[knight99]

Briana Lee[/URL][/B], post: 7221037, member: 586426"]You're totally right. I mean why the hell do normal American citizens need to own assault weapons anyway?! For what reason?!

Why not?Just because people own them doesn't mean there going to go off and kill people with them.Most use them for hogging and hunting big game.

In most cases ,yes, these killers have high powered assault rifles,but most are stolen or converted hunting rifles.

 

[L3ggy]

Guns for hunting? Pft! Just give me a sword and I'll charge the beasts.

 

[eponymous]

Oh trust me, I am 100% with you on that...if you read my posts that you quoted that statement I made from, you'd clearly see that some of the examples I posted involved massacres where the deaths resulted from weapons other than just guns. One was an axe, some involved knives, one was a bombing, one was fire. However, most of them did involve guns...

Forgive me. It may have seemed from the way I introduced my point that I was taking issue with what you said, when in fact I was only attempting to add to it.

 

[eponymous]

Why not?Just because people own them doesn't mean there going to go off and kill people with them.Most use them for hogging and hunting big game...

Somebody who knows more about guns than I do should chime in, but I sincerely doubt that anybody hunts with MAC 10's, Mini Guns and Street Sweepers...

 

[Doc Scurlock]

You're totally right. I mean why the hell do normal American citizens need to own assault weapons anyway?! For what reason?!

They need it for when the government comes in and starts telling them what to do in their own home. They need them to defend their bunker and to blow up the government tanks that Obama will start rolling across their lawns. These people be a little paranoid and crazy and think the USA is Syria or something.

 

[Sam Fisher]

The Real Root Causes of Violent Crime: The Breakdown of Marriage, Family, and Community

A review of the empirical evidence in the professional literature of the social sciences gives policymakers an insight into the root causes of crime. Consider, for instance:

- Over the past thirty years, the rise in violent crime parallels the rise in families abandoned by fathers.

- High-crime neighborhoods are characterized by high concentrations of families abandoned by fathers.

- State-by-state analysis by Heritage scholars indicates that a 10 percent increase in the percentage of children living in single-parent homes leads to a 17 percent increase in juvenile crime.

- The rate of violent teenage crime corresponds with the number of families abandoned by fathers.

- The type of aggression and hostility demonstrated by a future criminal often is foreshadowed in unusual aggressiveness as early as age five or six.

- The future criminal tends to be an individual rejected by other children as early as the first grade who goes on to form his own group of friends, often the future delinquent gang.

On the other hand:

- Neighborhoods with a high degree of religious practice are not high-crime neighborhoods.

- Even in high-crime inner-city neighborhoods, well over 90 percent of children from safe, stable homes do not become delinquents. By contrast only 10 percent of children from unsafe, -unstable homes in these neighborhoods avoid crime.

- Criminals capable of sustaining marriage gradually move away from a life of crime after they get married.

- The mother's strong affectionate attachment to her child is the child's best buffer against a life of crime.

- The father's authority and involvement in raising his children are also a great buffer against a life of crime.

http://www.heritage.org/research/reports/1995/03/bg1026nbsp-the-real-root-causes-of-violent-crime

 

[Sam Fisher]

Youth violence and family breakdown

Youth violence is on the rise in Canada, and the Ontario provincial government released a two million dollar report on November 14, 2008 identifying the root causes and how to address the problem. It identifies ten root causes including racism, poverty and family issues, and proposes thirty major recommendations for the province to consider. On family, however, The Roots of Youth Violence avoids even grappling with the research consensus that shows family structure matters for child development.

http://arpacanada.ca/index.php/issuesresearch/family/442-youth-violence-and-family-breakdown

Youth Violence: Do Parents and Families Make a Difference?

https://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/jr000243f.pdf

Declining Socio-Economic Conditions Blamed for Rise in Youth Violence

http://www.bahamasb2b.com/news/2012...-blames-for-rise-in-youth-violence-26131.html

 

[knight99]

Guns for hunting? Pft! Just give me a sword and I'll charge the beasts.

:cmon: I want to see the video of you fighting a wild hog or better yet a bear with a sword.

Somebody who knows more about guns than I do should chime in, but I sincerely doubt that anybody hunts with MAC 10's, Mini Guns and Street Sweepers...

I never said anything about those guns.I'm talking about the rifles used to protect our homes like the Ak47 ,ar 15's. The guns you mention are used by so called wanna be gangsters. How many people actually run around with a " street Sweeper"? Most of the time these people are getting these guns from who?The people at the army bases.I can go right now and get a Street Sweeper for 300 bucks from the same people everyone is arguing should be the only one's allowed to have guns.

Not matter what guns don't kill people,people kill people. Dont Blame the Guns, a lot of people would be alive right now if they had a gun!

 

[Deepcover]

I've grown tired of people blaming video games for the violence people commit, sure people who have done terrible in recent years have happen to play games like CoD, MoH, Doom and whatnot, but the games are not to blame. I've played games like that, but you don't see me picking up a firearm and go on killing spree. Why? Because I'm sane, and I've been taught not to do such things by my parents.

It's not like the games themselves pick up a gun and do the killing. Blaming the games is utter nonsense.

That's understandable and you're right no question about it but not everyone is you or thinks like you and not everyone in the world is sane. Many people (not all) would react differently if they have played a video game that uses a lot of firepower and others would not. But I think what it comes down to is the obsession, it's the rush or the need that would make one want to do such an act that is almost unbearable to imagine. We all get influnced by a lot of things in society. Sexuality, controversy, art, politics, human rights, laws, religion, cigarettes, chicks, studs, toys, heroes, villians, money, fantasies, music, movies, video games, and yes violence....I think when one has a serious obsession that's too much for them to bear, where the obession or the rush takes over, could be one of the first clues to a much later serious problem and maybe that happened to be the case for the shooter. Now I don't know much about the man who went on a rampage on Friday but imo one has to go through his personal demons and understand what made him want to commit such an act. What amazes me to this day is there has been a # of shooting sprees throughout the years and sadly many more in the years to come...and yet society hasn't learned how to prevent these things from happening again. We're always either pointing fingers or using a shortcut to an easy excuse that causes arguments not . In a way it's pretty scary and shocking.

 

[eponymous]

I never said anything about those guns.I'm talking about the rifles used to protect our homes like the Ak47 ,ar 15's. The guns you mention are used by so called wanna be gangsters. How many people actually run around with a " street Sweeper"? Most of the time these people are getting these guns from who?The people at the army bases.I can go right now and get a Street Sweeper for 300 bucks from the same people everyone is arguing should be the only one's allowed to have guns.

Not matter what guns don't kill people,people kill people. Dont Blame the Guns, a lot of people would be alive right now if they had a gun!

I admit, I didn't fully state my thinking in that post. I was reacting rather than responding. I'm sorry about that.

You were responding to Briana's post, which referenced assault weapons in general, not necessarily assault rifles. I could be wrong, but I think her point was that we really don't restrict the sale of any guns despite the fact that some have no legitimate uses period. The only possible purpose for an Uzi is to mow down large numbers of humans. Whether a lot of people wander down the street with one is beside the point. There's no justification at all for someone to have one as it's totally impractical for hunting & sport. Yet whenever the assault weapons ban is brought up for a vote in Congress, assault rifles like the ones you mentioned and fully automatic weapons like the ones I mentioned are always defended equally by the gun lobby, and often the defense centers around the the rights of hunters and sportsmen, and I've always found that argument incredulous where Uzi's & Street Sweeper's are concerned.

On the other hand, AK's aren't terribly practical for hunting either, are they? They're notoriously inaccurate, and their chief benefit is that they're rugged in all weather types and rarely malfunction, right? AR-15's can be modified to work well as hunting rifles, but aren't there like 50 other better rifles that don't double as semi-automatic assault rifles?

I also have to wonder: are rifles of any kind really useful for defending one's home? Maybe if you live in the wilderness and you're able to see them (whoever "they" are) coming. But are they practical for close quarters? This isn't a rhetorical question, I'm really asking because I've always been told they're not. Might as well try swinging a baseball bat in a closet.

And if you look to one of my posts below, you'll see that I agree with you that guns aren't to blame, but the people who use them. My problem with your position, though (viz., that it doesn't matter, that people can always get guns) is that you seem to think that's the end of the story. Simply resigning ourselves to that doesn't take a single step toward preventing future killing. We can pass sensible gun legislation in this country without violating the rights of law-abiding people, but we won't get anywhere if we begin by assuming there's nothing we can do.

 

[L3ggy]

:cmon: I want to see the video of you fighting a wild hog or better yet a bear with a sword.

I eat hogs and bears for breakfast

 

[(TLF) CHAMPION5]

Anyone who says lets change gun laws or ban certain guns, clearly has no idea what they are talking about.

lol if we ban or change gun law's what do you think would happen? Ill tell you it will get worse, just look at all the illegal substances meth, heroin, marijuana and etc all these are illegal but yet they are being flooded onto the streets of every neighborhood in america.

We cant change what comes into this country or what happens to people but have the right to defend it with are right to bear arms, you take these guns away from the people that abide by the law and use them to protect their family and friends and yet the crimanals will still have access to these sort of weapons.

Guns dont kill people, man does. For example if that guy in CT was to have a knife and slit the throats of all those kids, think about how many more he would have killed being silent and taking people out without a single peep. And nobody would have known what was going on.

Sayings guns kill people is like saying spoons made me fat.

 

[L3ggy]

Did they?

 

[ApolloBalboa]

Anyone who says lets change gun laws or ban certain guns, clearly has no idea what they are talking about.

lol if we ban or change gun law's what do you think would happen? Ill tell you it will get worse, just look at all the illegal substances meth, heroin, marijuana and etc all these are illegal but yet they are being flooded onto the streets of every neighborhood in america.

We cant change what comes into this country or what happens to people but have the right to defend it with are right to bear arms, you take these guns away from the people that abide by the law and use them to protect their family and friends and yet the crimanals will still have access to these sort of weapons.

Guns dont kill people, man does. For example if that guy in CT was to have a knife and slit the throats of all those kids, think about how many more he would have killed being silent and taking people out without a single peep. And nobody would have known what was going on.

Sayings guns kill people is like saying spoons made me fat.

A knife can serve other purposes besides slitting someone's throat. What were guns designed to do? Kill people.

Therefore, guns kill people.

 

[(TLF) CHAMPION5]

A knife can serve other purposes besides slitting someone's throat. What were guns designed to do? Kill people.

Therefore, guns kill people.

Like I said saying guns kill people is ignorant, its like saying spoons made you fat or mcdonalds gave you diabetes. People are so quick to blame guns instead of the hand that draws it.

Do you think guns get up walk over load themselves and go to a school or whatever and start shooting random people? Naw never

Guns are made to defend your rights and freedom and protect your family and loved ones, so trying to ban guns in society ends up hurting innocent people not the criminals! Do you think banning drugs has stopped criminals? No

If you love the USA, you gotta love guns cause without them there would be no red, white or blue.

 

[eponymous]

Anyone who says lets change gun laws or ban certain guns, clearly has no idea what they are talking about.

lol if we ban or change gun law's what do you think would happen? Ill tell you it will get worse, just look at all the illegal substances meth, heroin, marijuana and etc all these are illegal but yet they are being flooded onto the streets of every neighborhood in america.

We cant change what comes into this country or what happens to people but have the right to defend it with are right to bear arms, you take these guns away from the people that abide by the law and use them to protect their family and friends and yet the crimanals will still have access to these sort of weapons.

Guns dont kill people, man does. For example if that guy in CT was to have a knife and slit the throats of all those kids, think about how many more he would have killed being silent and taking people out without a single peep. And nobody would have known what was going on.

Sayings guns kill people is like saying spoons made me fat.

Pure sophistry.

First of all, who here said anything about banning guns? That would be impossible, and everyone knows it, even the staunchest advocates of gun control. You're right that banning something creates a black market for it. It's why there's a black market for illegal drugs, and why there was bootlegging during Prohibition.

But here's the thing: if we care enough about something, we don't let that stop us. We don't allow minors to buy alcohol or cigarettes, so why do we let just anyone buy guns? Hell, in some cases we go even farther. We actually do ban child pornography despite the fact that there will always be pedophiles who want it. It's called doing something instead of giving up.

Second, "change gun laws"? What gun laws? We don't have any, and even those we do have are toothless and easily circumvented.

Third, most people don't think guns are to blame. Almost everyone thinks it's the people who use them irresponsibly.

And yes, if somebody wants to kill someone, they'll find a way. They'll use a knife, or run them over with their car, or bludgeon them with a hammer, or maybe just use their bare hands or poison them. But what really pisses me off about the unbridled availability of guns is the number of people we never get to punish because they take the coward's way out, like the KC player who killed his wife a couple weeks ago. Had he not had a gun, he still could have killed her, but he would have been a lot less likely to kill himself without a gun. In taking his own life, he deprived us of being able to put his ass in jail for the rest of his life, or even putting him to death if that's the law.

It should be at least as hard to get an assault rifle as it is to get a driver's license.

Finally, I just have to take issue with this little nugget:

if that guy in CT was to have a knife and slit the throats of all those kids, think about how many more he would have killed being silent and taking people out without a single peep. And nobody would have known what was going on.

What the eff are you talking about? You really think people wouldn't have noticed somebody walking around slitting people's throats? It's a public place with a lot of people, I think someone would have noticed.

I will now graciously refrain from making any more comments in this thread (at least for a while) as I've more than said my share here today.

 

[L3ggy]

If you love the USA, you gotta love guns cause without them there would be no red, white or blue.

That makes no sense.

 

[knight99]

I eat hogs and bears for breakfast

Pics?