Most say it's the guns. I say, it's today's society

[Jagger69]

I'm not gun nut but I do believe in protection of the second amendment. However, I don't think anyone has any real useful need to keep an AK-47 around either so some restrictions for access to guns and very strict restrictions to certain types of guns should be in place.

That said, I do believe that our current society (American society that is) is a primary contributor to the problem. Look at the TV shows, the movies, the video games....they universally glorify the use of violence, particularly gun and/or weapon violence. Check out this trailer for Grand Theft Auto 5:



This is the kind of shit your 10-year-old kid is continually playing on his PS3 with your blessing. Then, you become outraged and feign shock when something like Sandy Hook happens??!! You shake your head and ask "How could someone do something like that?". What a travesty. It's called "classical conditioning" folks and the manifestation of this current culture of violence has been as deliberate and effective on our society as the ringing of the bell was on Pavlov's Dog. Look in the mirror, America. What you see is what you get.

"Lost in a Roman wilderness of pain
And all the children are insane" - Jim Morrison from The End

 

[Harley Spencer]

I'm not gun nut but I do believe in protection of the second amendment. However, I don't think anyone has any real useful need to keep an AK-47 around either so some restrictions for access to guns and very strict restrictions to certain types of guns should be in place.

That said, I do believe that our current society (American society that is) is a primary contributor to the problem. Look at the TV shows, the movies, the video games....they universally glorify the use of violence, particularly gun and/or weapon violence. Check out this trailer for Grand Theft Auto 5:



This is the kind of shit your 10-year-old kid is continually playing on his PS3 with your blessing. Then, you become outraged and feign shock when something like Sandy Hook happens??!! You shake your head and ask "How could someone do something like that?". What a travesty. It's called "classical conditioning" folks and the manifestation of this current culture of violence has been as deliberate and effective on our society as the ringing of the bell was on Pavlov's Dog. Look in the mirror, America. What you see is what you get.

"Lost in a Roman wilderness of pain
And all the children are insane" - Jim Morrison from The End

Wrong. It's in these nut jobs own deranged brains that prompts them to commit such brutal crimes. Otherwise, everyone of the millions of people who play violence oriented video games and watch films revolving around robberies, murders, rapes, and torture would also be psycho killing machines.

Why do people need to find something or someone else to blame for shit like this? Stop playing the blame game. It's moronic, quite frankly.

 

[Briana Lee]

I typed out a whole essay response to this but realised none of it makes any difference anyway. People will always believe what they want to believe whatever anyone says....

 

[Harley Spencer]

That's a good point. There's been mass and wanton murder throughout human history and that is the heart of the problem. But these instances where a gunman goes into a school, theatre etc. and randomly kills people for no rhyme or reason is something we haven't seen until recently. Guns aren't the issue. This guy could've easily waited until school let out and plowed his car into 20 kids as they lined up for their school buses. It's not the method but the madness.

Wrong again.

- In the 1980s, a man who was fired from his job killed 7 of his co-workers.

- In 2003, a guy set fire to a subway train which led to the fire spreading, killing 198 people and injuring 143 people.

- In 1996, 18 people were killed in a murderous/suicidal attack in a school.

- In 1974, 25 were killed in a hostage situation of 115 people in a school.

- In 1964, a man killed 8 students and 2 teachers in an elementary school.

- In 1966, a man killed 13 people, an unborn child, and wounded 32 others in Texas. He also murdered his wife and mother before the shooting.

- In 1980, a prison riot resulted in the death of 33 inmates and 200 injured inmates.

- In 1986, a man massacred 30 people and injured 15 people in a restaurant (some of the murders were before the restaurant, but the same day).

- In 1996, a man went on a shooting spree and killed 35 people, injured 21 people.

- In 1954 and 1957, two separate killing sprees, a total of 57 people were killed by one man and injured 30.

- In 1927, a man went on a killing rampage for no apparent reason, killing 8 people and injuring 3, then committing suicide.

- In 1913, a man shot 20 people and villagers then killed him.

- In 1952, a man killed 9 people on a killing spree. Before that spree, he was previously occupied as a police officer, who was known for being assigned to investigate his own murders.

- In 1987, an angry man killed 20 people, beat his wife, and injured 12 others. He commit suicide by hanging himself.

- In 1956, a Filipino man killed 16 people on a spree where he entered 4 different houses, killing all of the inhabitants.

There are many, many more cases of mass murders. I do agree with you that they are pure madness, but I can not agree that mass murders have only taken place recently.

 

[L3ggy]

I'm not gun nut but I do believe in protection of the second amendment. However, I don't think anyone has any real useful need to keep an AK-47 around either so some restrictions for access to guns and very strict restrictions to certain types of guns should be in place.

That said, I do believe that our current society (American society that is) is a primary contributor to the problem. Look at the TV shows, the movies, the video games....they universally glorify the use of violence, particularly gun and/or weapon violence. Check out this trailer for Grand Theft Auto 5:



This is the kind of shit your 10-year-old kid is continually playing on his PS3 with your blessing. Then, you become outraged and feign shock when something like Sandy Hook happens??!! You shake your head and ask "How could someone do something like that?". What a travesty. It's called "classical conditioning" folks and the manifestation of this current culture of violence has been as deliberate and effective on our society as the ringing of the bell was on Pavlov's Dog. Look in the mirror, America. What you see is what you get.

"Lost in a Roman wilderness of pain
And all the children are insane" - Jim Morrison from The End

I've grown tired of people blaming video games for the violence people commit, sure people who have done terrible in recent years have happen to play games like CoD, MoH, Doom and whatnot, but the games are not to blame. I've played games like that, but you don't see me picking up a firearm and go on killing spree. Why? Because I'm sane, and I've been taught not to do such things by my parents.

It's not like the games themselves pick up a gun and do the killing. Blaming the games is utter nonsense.

 

[vodkazvictim]

I say fuck off sam.

 

[Harley Spencer]

I typed out a whole essay response to this but realised none of it makes any difference anyway. People will always believe what they want to believe whatever anyone says....

I totally think you should post it. There's no harm in it.

 

[Harley Spencer]

I've grown tired of people blaming video games for the violence people commit, sure people who have done terrible in recent years have happen to play games like CoD, MoH, Doom and whatnot, but the games are not to blame. I've played games like that, but you don't see me picking up a firearm and go on killing spree. Why? Because I'm sane, and I've been taught not to do such things by my parents.

It's not like the games themselves pick up a gun and do the killing. Blaming the games is utter nonsense.

Right?! That's what I keep saying. It's such a retarded excuse. People really need to stop finding reasons to blame incidents on, and instead look at it for what it is. The cause is not the person's upbringing, the person's surroundings, the person's access to video games and movies, the person being bullied in school, the person being deprived of sex, or whatever other ridiculous reason. The cause is simply the person's fucked up brain. Otherwise, every single human being who has ever been bullied, ever played a video game involving guns, ever watched a movie involving guns, ever been abused by their parents, would go on mass killing sprees.

Where are you brains?

 

[Briana Lee]

I totally think you should post it. There's no harm in it.

Well there's 2 reasons why I can't....first I deleted it & didn't save it (whoops) and the second is that I don't want to fuel the OPs trolling. I've already made my feelings clear regarding how I feel about Sam exploiting this situation to push forward his own political views in another thread. The 'man' is disgusting.

 

[L3ggy]

Not necessarily on-topic, but why do parents use games like CoD as a substitute for a babysitter?

 

[Mr. Daystar]

Not necessarily on-topic, but why do parents use games like CoD as a substitute for a babysitter?

So when things like this happen, they can escape the personal accountability, and blame everyone, and everything else. I think this is horrific, but the fact is, and always be, that evil people will do evil things, and no law will ever stop someone that has no regard for the law. This fuck head was 20 yrs old, not old enough to legally own the handguns he had, and he got them from a different state. Gun laws would not have stopped this tragedy....guns are inanimate objects, they are simply a tool. He could have just as easily plowed down as many with a car while they played at recess.

As far as personal agenda's, the gun grabbers are having a feild day with this, and are far more despicable in their attempts to exploit it to their advantage then ANY OTHER group. In fact, I don't believe one tear out of obamas eye was real. I have no doubt in my mind he heard about this, and the first thing he did, was gather his minions to start working on a plan to usurp our rights, and methodically planned every action he preformed on TV yesterday.

 

[twat36975248664224]

Easy your child can play the game for hours on end, even online with his friends. And now and days some parents are so worried about other people committing crimes against their child. So if they are playing a video game there are home safe and sound and don't have to worry about them in the outside world.

 

[sean miguel]

Wrong again.

- In the 1980s, a man who was fired from his job killed 7 of his co-workers.

- In 2003, a guy set fire to a subway train which led to the fire spreading, killing 198 people and injuring 143 people.

- In 1996, 18 people were killed in a murderous/suicidal attack in a school.

- In 1974, 25 were killed in a hostage situation of 115 people in a school.

- In 1964, a man killed 8 students and 2 teachers in an elementary school.

- In 1966, a man killed 13 people, an unborn child, and wounded 32 others in Texas. He also murdered his wife and mother before the shooting.

- In 1980, a prison riot resulted in the death of 33 inmates and 200 injured inmates.

- In 1986, a man massacred 30 people and injured 15 people in a restaurant (some of the murders were before the restaurant, but the same day).

- In 1996, a man went on a shooting spree and killed 35 people, injured 21 people.

- In 1954 and 1957, two separate killing sprees, a total of 57 people were killed by one man and injured 30.

- In 1927, a man went on a killing rampage for no apparent reason, killing 8 people and injuring 3, then committing suicide.

- In 1913, a man shot 20 people and villagers then killed him.

- In 1952, a man killed 9 people on a killing spree. Before that spree, he was previously occupied as a police officer, who was known for being assigned to investigate his own murders.

- In 1987, an angry man killed 20 people, beat his wife, and injured 12 others. He commit suicide by hanging himself.

- In 1956, a Filipino man killed 16 people on a spree where he entered 4 different houses, killing all of the inhabitants.

There are many, many more cases of mass murders. I do agree with you that they are pure madness, but I can not agree that mass murders have only taken place recently.

Your examples are kinda vague (1987 - an angry man killed a bunch of people) and not all of them have to do with gun violence. Can you be more specific? America and it's "love affair with guns" is under indictment here - not random acts of violence from around the world in the last century.

 

[Harley Spencer]

Your examples are kinda vague (1987 - an angry man killed a bunch of people) and not all of them have to do with gun violence. Can you be more specific? America and it's "love affair with guns" is under indictment here - not random acts of violence from around the world in the last century.

Just google "mass shootings" or "school shootings" and you'll find plenty of historical accounts from around the world involving people going crazy and murdering a bunch of people. My point was that these events are not only recent. But if you really insist on me providing more details, here you go:

(In order from the examples I posted above)

1. Used a shotgun.

2. This was fire. But so what? It's still a massacre.

3. This was a 43 year old man armed with 4 hand guns.

4. 3 Palestinian terrorists. They used grenades and automatic weapons, killing 22 children and injuring 28 children.

5. Can't find that one again, sorry.

6. Charles Whitman. He purchased a Universal M1 Carbine, 2 ammunition magazines and 8 boxes of ammunition, telling the cashier that he was using it to hunt wild hogs. Then he drove to a gun shop where he bought 4 more carbine magazines, 6 boxes of ammunition, and a can of gun cleaning solvent. Then he went to Sears and got a 12 gauge semi-automatic shotgun and a rifle case. Back home with these items, in his garage he sawed off the barrel of the shotgun, packed it with a remington 700 6mm hunting rifle into his locker, which also held a 6mm bolt-action hunting rifle, a .36 calibre rifle, a .30 calibre carbine, a 9mm Luger pistol, another pistol and a revolver, and over 700 rounds of ammunition, 3 knives, a machete, and other items such as vitamins and crap. The massacre took place as he sniped out a number of students from the top of a tower at the University of Texas.

7. This took place in the New Mexico State Penitentiary. It was a hostage situation in which case inmates took officers hostage, inmates killed inmates, inmates raped and beat each other. I suppose this doesn't necessarily fit in with one single person going on a mass killing spree or a school shooting, but nevertheless, it was terrible. And it was 30 years ago.

8. The man had a revolver and a knife. Some of the people were found to have been killed by an Uzi, so it is suspected that some of the murders were by police officers.

9. Took place in Australia. The man reportedly told his neighbor, "I'll do something that will make everyone remember me." He used a Colt AR-15 semi-automatic rifle. The main part of the massacre took place in a restaurant where he sat down, ordered food, commented, "There's a lot of wasps in here," to no one in particular, then moved to the back of the cafe, set up a video camera, and within 15 seconds he fired 17 shots, killing 12 and injuring 10. He then killed 8 other people around another side of the cafe and wounded 5, blah blah blah, I'm not telling this entire friggin story.

10. First spree, he killed 21 people with an axe. His second spree, he was armed with a stolen police rifle, 50 rounds of ammunition and an axe. He just started killing people. Within 10 hours he shot 10 men, 8 women, 8 children, killed 5 men with the axe, burned 2 women and a child, and strangled a teenage girl.

11. Well I couldn't find he above incident again (the page I'm looking at has TONS of massacres listed), but I did find another one in the same year where an American man killed 44 and injured 58 in a school in which he was the treasurer for. First he killed his wife and then he set his farm buildings on fire, which served as a distraction as he bombed the school. So no, not guns in this situation, but it doesn't fucking matter. It's absolutely terrible and it happened 85 years ago.

12. This man killed his wife and 4 children, then in town he set fires and shot 20 people. Shot here meaning he had a gun.

13. I'm tired of researching these people again. This guy: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tore_Hedin

Alright like I said, I'm tired of re-researching these people just to prove a point to someone who is doubting me, which is doubting history. And since when did this become just about America? There are crazy people all over the world, not just in America, and you didn't say anything about America only when I mentioned the Holocaust and WWI and other wars. It doesn't matter. This shit isn't recent, it is recorded throughout history all over the world, nothing has changed. Nothing that matters in this instance in any case. Sure, things have changed over time, such as blacks no longer being slaves and granted the same rights as everyone else, America getting it's first black president, porn being more widely accepted and sexuality progressively becoming more openly expressed and less inhibited, women becoming more independent, etc. But seriously, why are you looking for a reason as to WHY these things are happening? What's it matter? It's always happened, it will continue to happen because psychopaths will never cease to exist unless someone miraculously discovers a cure for craziness.

 

[ApolloBalboa]

So when things like this happen, they can escape the personal accountability, and blame everyone, and everything else. I think this is horrific, but the fact is, and always be, that evil people will do evil things, and no law will ever stop someone that has no regard for the law. This fuck head was 20 yrs old, not old enough to legally own the handguns he had, and he got them from a different state. Gun laws would not have stopped this tragedy....guns are inanimate objects, they are simply a tool. He could have just as easily plowed down as many with a car while they played at recess.

As far as personal agenda's, the gun grabbers are having a feild day with this, and are far more despicable in their attempts to exploit it to their advantage then ANY OTHER group. In fact, I don't believe one tear out of obamas eye was real. I have no doubt in my mind he heard about this, and the first thing he did, was gather his minions to start working on a plan to usurp our rights, and methodically planned every action he preformed on TV yesterday.

I'll agree with you on the accountability issue. For whatever reason, people aren't willing to accept that they're the purveyors of their own faults if there's another person or thing to blame. "I got fat from McDonald's? It's their fault for making me obese, not the fact that I ate there 3 times a day" "My kid likes violence in all shapes and forms? It's GTA and horror movies' faults, not the fact that I let him be exposed to all those things willingly."

As for the gun issue, it's true that no law is infallible, but why is the idea of not being able to own automatic weapons and things like that such a travesty to people? Why do people need to have in their hands guns that can fire off hundreds of rounds per minute for anything, whether it's hunting or home protection? What's wrong with that law being enforced?

And finally, I believe every tear out of Obama's eyes were real, and I'm not even an ardent supporter. How can anyone not be moved to tears by an act so horrible as this, whether or not they have a political agenda?

 

[Mr. Daystar]

I'll agree with you on the accountability issue. For whatever reason, people aren't willing to accept that they're the purveyors of their own faults if there's another person or thing to blame. "I got fat from McDonald's? It's their fault for making me obese, not the fact that I ate there 3 times a day" "My kid likes violence in all shapes and forms? It's GTA and horror movies' faults, not the fact that I let him be exposed to all those things willingly."

As for the gun issue, it's true that no law is infallible, but why is the idea of not being able to own automatic weapons and things like that such a travesty to people? Why do people need to have in their hands guns that can fire off hundreds of rounds per minute for anything, whether it's hunting or home protection? What's wrong with that law being enforced?

And finally, I believe every tear out of Obama's eyes were real, and I'm not even an ardent supporter. How can anyone not be moved to tears by an act so horrible as this, whether or not they have a political agenda?

There is nothing wrong with the law being enforced. I wish they would drop the hammer on those fucktards. In Ohio, it's a mandatory sentence of 8 or 10 years in prison, if you commit a crime with a gun. I think it should be 20! Problem is, the prisons are so crowded with people they shouldn't be, they can't do that. There are many laws on the books, but courts and lawyers plea these scumbags down, and then parole them, and they do it again. Criminals get they're guns illegally, so adding laws will do nothing to help, they have to enforce what they have before they make new ones.

It's not even an issue whether it's "Needed"....as a law abiding American citizen. it's my Constitutional right. That's very important. If you're from America, or immigrated here, and plan on seeking citizenship, you know the history of WHY, that's so important, if not...you should read about what our founding fathers were subject to, what they achieved, and how they achieved it. The Amendments were written in order of importance....it might not be the first thing they were concerned with, but number 2 is pretty fucking important! The shooting sports a are lot of fun, why should I be forced to make a sacrifice, when I abide by the law, practice safety!

I disagree, I just cannot trust him.

 

[ApolloBalboa]

There is nothing wrong with the law being enforced. I wish they would drop the hammer on those fucktards. In Ohio, it's a mandatory sentence of 8 or 10 years in prison, if you commit a crime with a gun. I think it should be 20! Problem is, the prisons are so crowded with people they shouldn't be, they can't do that. There are many laws on the books, but courts and lawyers plea these scumbags down, and then parole them, and they do it again. Criminals get they're guns illegally, so adding laws will do nothing to help, they have to enforce what they have before they make new ones.

It's not even an issue whether it's "Needed"....as a law abiding American citizen. it's my Constitutional right. That's very important. If you're from America, or immigrated here, and plan on seeking citizenship, you know the history of WHY, that's so important, if not...you should read about what our founding fathers were subject to, what they achieved, and how they achieved it. The Amendments were written in order of importance....it might not be the first thing they were concerned with, but number 2 is pretty fucking important! The shooting sports a are lot of fun, why should I be forced to make a sacrifice, when I abide by the law, practice safety!

I disagree, I just cannot trust him.

If people want to own a handgun because they want to feel safe or use it for sport, they're free to under the 2nd Amendment, there's nothing more to say about that at this point. I make this point again though, why (outside of it being your right) does anybody outside of the military or law enforcement feel the need or think they have the right to a weapon that they keep in their house that can fire off 100 rounds a minute? Why does any normal gun-loving citizen require that much firepower?

 

[STDiva]

If people want to own a handgun because they want to feel safe or use it for sport, they're free to under the 2nd Amendment, there's nothing more to say about that at this point. I make this point again though, why (outside of it being your right) does anybody outside of the military or law enforcement feel the need or think they have the right to a weapon that they keep in their house that can fire off 100 rounds a minute? Why does any normal gun-loving citizen require that much firepower?

The same reason people eat 5lb burgers with a gallon of soda.

 

[Mr. Daystar]

The same reason people eat 5lb burgers with a gallon of diet soda.

Fixed.

 

[STDiva]

Fixed.

Truth. With diet, that meal only take 3 months off their life, instead of 6.