Obamacare Fuck Up

[larss]

He knew the inmate relocation would be a problem when he was running in the campaign in '08, or either he never considered it. You only have two choices with Obama. Incompetency or lying.

I'd go the third route that he thought that the problems could be overcome.

Are you really this stupid? Hell you're not even proficient at creating a straw man. The inclusion of gays as to what constitutes a legal marriage in his mind came after he was elected.

He doesn't have to revoke his initial statement. We all know, and moreover, people that voted for him knew he was lying. His flip flop proves us out.

I am not sure what you are trying to prove with this video. He states that he believes that marriage is between a man and a woman. That he does not think that his own definition should be part of the constitution. He states that he supports the rights of same sex couples to be legally bound. Where is the lie?

Are you being deliberately obtuse? I am just trying to see things from your perspective. To do this I need the information that proves or at least backs up your point of view.

He said PERIOD! Without exception. Again, he is either incompetent or a liar. I personally think he is both.

You may be right. Personally I think that circumstances change and that ACA as drafted was not what became law.

Your little Tony was a born liar? I'll tell you something, if the constitution allowed for it, you could send him over here to replace Obama any day of the week. Why am I not shocked that a self professed person that "doesn't like America" or "never cared much about America" as you said on the USA Europe thread would think anything other than Blair was a liar? He was too friendly with the U.S. Seemed like a decent fellow to me. But then again, I could be wrong, you know more about your PM than I do, and I know and live under the governance of our president and you don't.

I have never said that I "don't like America" or that I "never cared much about America" to my recollection. I have checked the suggested thread and cannot see where I have said anything that could even be interpreted as having said that.
The UK has had a good relationship with the US for a lot longer time than under Blair - it was under Thatcher/Reagan that it was probably at its best.
Blair was all smoke and mirrors when it came to domestic policy. One of the big issues at the time that he originally came to power was the Euro and whether or not the UK should join the single currency. At the time, John Major was saying that we should wait and see and that he would not make a firm decision on staying out or joining. Blair continued to press accusing him of not having a firm policy. Funnily enough Blair did not commit either and when asked the same question (in or out of the Euro) about a week after winning the election he repeated almost word for word what Major had said before the election.

Actually that is only the Afghanistan death toll.
My point was that two border agents were ****** as a direct result of Fast and Furious and Obama tried to pass it off as a Bush policy.

If the policy was running under Bush but without the name then surely it was a Bush policy. I think I am right in saying that the policy was in place in one state (Arizona?) during Bush but was expanded under Obama as Fast and Furious.

Stop calling cigarettes fags.

I don't.

 

[Jack Davenport]

I'd go the third route that he thought that the problems could be overcome.

Then he should have that same attitude when it comes to the economy instead of blaming Bush 5 years later.

I am not sure what you are trying to prove with this video. He states that he believes that marriage is between a man and a woman. That he does not think that his own definition should be part of the constitution. He states that he supports the rights of same sex couples to be legally bound. Where is the lie?

Are you being deliberately obtuse? I am just trying to see things from your perspective. To do this I need the information that proves or at least backs up your point of view.

This a fundamental belief. You don't "evolve" into changing your mind 2 years later.While he said that there should not be a constitutional amendment he was crystal clear that in his opinion that marriage was between a man and a woman. Let's just say I am skeptical in place of a not so flattering term as lie.

IYou may be right. Personally I think that circumstances change and that ACA as drafted was not what became law.

You are right. The law that was ****** is not the law we have now. But some things were academic, whatever the law became, "keeping your policy if you liked it" was what sold the American people on it.

II have never said that I "don't like America" or that I "never cared much about America" to my recollection. I have checked the suggested thread and cannot see where I have said anything that could even be interpreted as having said that.
The UK has had a good relationship with the US for a lot longer time than under Blair - it was under Thatcher/Reagan that it was probably at its best.
Blair was all smoke and mirrors when it came to domestic policy. One of the big issues at the time that he originally came to power was the Euro and whether or not the UK should join the single currency. At the time, John Major was saying that we should wait and see and that he would not make a firm decision on staying out or joining. Blair continued to press accusing him of not having a firm policy. Funnily enough Blair did not commit either and when asked the same question (in or out of the Euro) about a week after winning the election he repeated almost word for word what Major had said before the election.

Thatcher had a crush on Reagan. But the Soviet Union's aggression during the early 80's gave them common ground. I remember when Blair was first elected. The opinion was that he was extremely liberal. I never saw it. He must have had a conversion of sorts after taking office. I used to watch Prime Minister's questions religiously when Blair was PM and it seems that the British PM is held with a shorter leash than our president. I would love to see our own president have to appear before congress where questions could be thrown out at him as it happens in British government. perhaps your comments about America were in regard to WWII

IIf the policy was running under Bush but without the name then surely it was a Bush policy. I think I am right in saying that the policy was in place in one state (Arizona?) during Bush but was expanded under Obama as Fast and Furious.

Blaming Bush for what occurred under Fast and Furious is like saying Obama is responsible for the Iraq and Afghanistan wars.

II don't.

Can I bum a light?

 

[larss]

This a fundamental belief. You don't "evolve" into changing your mind 2 years later.While he said that there should not be a constitutional amendment he was crystal clear that in his opinion that marriage was between a man and a woman. Let's just say I am skeptical in place of a not so flattering term as lie.

In what way has he changed his mind? I have to say that I am of the same opinion as far as thinking that marriage is between a man and a woman but that this is my own belief and this should not stop same sex couples having the same rights as a "conventional" married couple. If this means that in law that are called "married" then that is the way it should be rather than making up a new status to cover same sex couples. I have not changed my belief on what is marriage as such even though gay couples can now get "married".

You are right. The law that was ****** is not the law we have now. But some things were academic, whatever the law became, "keeping your policy if you liked it" was what sold the American people on it.

Fair enough.

I used to watch Prime Minister's questions religiously when Blair was PM and it seems that the British PM is held with a shorter leash than our president. I would love to see our own president have to appear before congress where questions could be thrown out at him as it happens in British government

PMQ's is a total waste of time. It's all just spin. There was a bit about it on BBC Radio 4 yesterday afternoon. One of Blair's spin doctors who helped him with preparation for PMQs was asked about how honest the answers that Blair gave were. He avoided answering that one.

...perhaps your comments about America were in regard to WWII

Correct - just a bit of snide one upmanship. And the US has been trying to make up for its late entry into that conflict ever since

Blaming Bush for what occurred under Fast and Furious is like saying Obama is responsible for the Iraq and Afghanistan wars.

Correct. It still stands that the policy did exist under Bush. I'm not sure that you can actually blame the Obama for what did occur under F+F either. Surely the ATF themselves fucked this one up.

Can I bum a light?

No. I quit some years ago. You can cadge a copy of the book I used, though.

 

[Jack Davenport]

In what way has he changed his mind? I have to say that I am of the same opinion as far as thinking that marriage is between a man and a woman but that this is my own belief and this should not stop same sex couples having the same rights as a "conventional" married couple. If this means that in law that are called "married" then that is the way it should be rather than making up a new status to cover same sex couples. I have not changed my belief on what is marriage as such even though gay couples can now get "married".




Fair enough.


PMQ's is a total waste of time. It's all just spin. There was a bit about it on BBC Radio 4 yesterday afternoon. One of Blair's spin doctors who helped him with preparation for PMQs was asked about how honest the answers that Blair gave were. He avoided answering that one.


Correct - just a bit of snide one upmanship. And the US has been trying to make up for its late entry into that conflict ever since



Correct. It still stands that the policy did exist under Bush. I'm not sure that you can actually blame the Obama for what did occur under F+F either. Surely the ATF themselves fucked this one up.


No. I quit some years ago. You can cadge a copy of the book I used, though.

I am going to use my exchange with you the past couple of days as a template on how I should conduct myself in discussing issues in the future. This was a lot more pleasant to read than fighting with trolls.

 

[Nester6]

Dude, he's not going to be impeached, they aren't going to repeal the law. It needs VERY SERIOUS work, and it's a fucked up thing, but he didn't lie because he's a Democrat, or black....he lied because he's a filthy politician, and they all lie.

The pharmaceutical companies, the malpractice suites, the welfare fraud, the corporations that own hospitals, and the insurance companies ALL NEED TO BE FIXED, before any type of universal health care will work, period. obama should be worried about the elderly only being able to afford taking half of their prescribed medications, due to outrageous costs, before he worries about everyone getting healthcare....and the priority for this health care should be looked at. Elderly first, welfare slugs last...the rest sorted out in the middle somewhere.

The whole thing is a fuckin mess.

 

[larss]

I am going to use my exchange with you the past couple of days as a template on how I should conduct myself in discussing issues in the future. This was a lot more pleasant to read than fighting with trolls.

Thank you. I hope I learned something from the exchange as well. We might not necessarily agree on all things but I think that a frank exchange of ideas can leave both parties better off as long as they are open minded.

 

[Little Red Wagon Repairman]

President Obama apologizes to Americans who are losing their health insurance.

"Let me be clear. I shoulda been more clear."

 

[Nester6]

President Obama apologizes to Americans who are losing their health insurance.

"Let me be clear. I shoulda been more clear."

Obama's fuck up now gave new life to Republicans and assures them of the House and many more votes as a result! Arrogant socialist!

 

[xfire]

Arrogant socialist!

He's a pretty lousy socialist.

 

[JesusWasGay]

Im new here and after reading thru some of these posts I find is very strange that a bunch of pretty xtreme rt wingers are here on a porno website discussing politics. I would think there would be better suited forums for you to spew your beliefs than a site like this. I went to Cornell and grew up upper middle class in eastern Virgina to very republican parents. I listened to the craziness of what they were into and it made me a pretty staunch liberal by the time I left HS for University. I dont think that you can define Obama as a socialist when you look at the pounding the middle class continues to take and the increases in profits for nearly every major US corporation and the market is breaking records daily. Yes, Obamacare has a very ***** socialist side to it but it enriches the most corrupt corporations in the US, the insurance companies. How can you call it a socialist program when people have to buy insurance? For it to be defined as socialist it would be run by the government and paid for by the government entirely which it is not.

I think that you radical tea party guys are lost in the woods here. Remember where you are. We cannot point a finger at this guy in the white house when he walked into a disaster to begin with unless we point at the people who put us in this debacle to begin with. Free reign to companies fucked the average American. De-regulation has been a horrible thing for most of us and a wonderful thing for a very few. You can say the man lied about getting things done but I hardly believe that anyone could have foreseen the opposition to everything he tries to do from the right. They have refused to work with him on anything and when you cant get compromises from the other side, how do you expect anything to get done?

Just my 2 cents. I don't know if this is the best place for my first posting, but what the hell!

 

[Jack Davenport]

Im new here and after reading thru some of these posts I find is very strange that a bunch of pretty xtreme rt wingers are here on a porno website discussing politics. I would think there would be better suited forums for you to spew your beliefs than a site like this. I went to Cornell and grew up upper middle class in eastern Virgina to very republican parents. I listened to the craziness of what they were into and it made me a pretty staunch liberal by the time I left HS for University. I dont think that you can define Obama as a socialist when you look at the pounding the middle class continues to take and the increases in profits for nearly every major US corporation and the market is breaking records daily. Yes, Obamacare has a very ***** socialist side to it but it enriches the most corrupt corporations in the US, the insurance companies. How can you call it a socialist program when people have to buy insurance? For it to be defined as socialist it would be run by the government and paid for by the government entirely which it is not.


There are plenty fiscally conservative,

I think that you radical tea party guys are lost in the woods here. Remember where you are. We cannot point a finger at this guy in the white house when he walked into a disaster to begin with unless we point at the people who put us in this debacle to begin with. Free reign to companies fucked the average American. De-regulation has been a horrible thing for most of us and a wonderful thing for a very few. You can say the man lied about getting things done but I hardly believe that anyone could have foreseen the opposition to everything he tries to do from the right. They have refused to work with him on anything and when you cant get compromises from the other side, how do you expect anything to get done?

Just my 2 cents. I don't know if this is the best place for my first posting, but what the hell!

I find it more curious that someone that joins a porn board for the first time gravitates to the politics section for their first post and a rather lengthy one at that.

 

[JesusWasGay]

Ive been browsing through all of it. I am active on political forums but when I saw that this site had a politics and religion category I was intrigued. I was surprised and amused. So I tossed in my 2 cents.

 

[Jack Davenport]

Ive been browsing through all of it. I am active on political forums but when I saw that this site had a politics and religion category I was intrigued. I was surprised and amused. So I tossed in my 2 cents.

Fair enough

Welcome to the board! Party on dude.

 

[georges]

the Obama image that sums everything

 

[mikexmoran]

He's a pretty lousy socialist.

I need to be generous with my rep because I couldn't rep you again.

 

[xfire]

I need to be generous with my rep because I couldn't rep you again.

I do appreciate the sentiment. :coolthumb:

 

[Straight Shooter]

The downside of ACA is that the administration, whether they like it or not, have to own anything negative that happens in the healthcare industry. Before the ACA, people lost their their coverage all the time and their premiums went up often as well. These are year to year policies. But now with the ACA in place, any time someone loses their coverage or their premiums go up, it's attributed to Obamacare. It's idiotic but that's just the way it is and the administration is going to have to live with it

 

[wdoall]

From 2001-2008 insurance premiums went up 150% (most in an 8 year span) and denied claims went up over 400% after deregulations because to paraphrase Bush, "it isn't fair the insurance industry lost money because of 9/11"
And lets not forget that insurance profits went from 2.4 billion to 12.8 billion in that time

 

[mikexmoran]

I'm absolutely in favor of the intent of the law. I'm not sure of the success of it. I'm not writing off. It still needs to play out. I could be a net positive thing or it could be a law that can be executed and saddles the middle class. I just don't know. I believe the intentions are good.

I've been a broken record on this. Obama's failure was to ram this thing through without support from the other side. You can argue that it wouldn't have had support and it wouldn't have ****** without the Super Majority. That may be true. It is still true that he did this unilaterally (perhaps he was just following orders) and he takes some of the responsibility for the opposition doing what they can to make it fail.