Why Atheism.

[Rattrap]

As we know at this very moment,there is no definite proof of if there's a god or not.I think that Christianity is a joke along with Islam,but that doesn't mean that there isn't any higher beings.Notice I said higher beings and not "Gods",meaning that maybe they set things in motion,but they are not controlling the actions and events that take place on this planet.

From what I've seen, the logical arguments for whether God(s) exist (for that's the only real realm one can debate such an existence because, as you say, no evidence exists) all point to deism for as far as their logic holds (which admittedly, isn't that far). No logical argument I've seen makes a case for an active, intelligent Abrahamic being.

I am agnostic because I'm not egotistical enough to say that there definitely are no higher beings,because I have no proof that there isn't,just like anyone else.

Bring in the Flying Spaghetti Monster, or its original form, Russell's teapot. Here's a good excerpt from its Wiki article:

Peter Atkins said that the point of Russell's teapot is that no one can prove a negative, and therefore Occam's razor suggests that the more simple theory (in which there is no supreme being) should trump the more complex theory (with a supreme being).[3] He notes that this argument is not good enough to convince the religious, because religious evidence is experienced through personal revelation or received wisdom which cannot be objectively verified and are not accepted forms of scientific evidence.

In his books A Devil's Chaplain (2003) and The God Delusion (2006), Richard Dawkins used the teapot as an analogy of an argument against what he termed "agnostic conciliation", a policy of intellectual appeasement that allows for philosophical domains that concern exclusively religious matters.[4] Science has no way of establishing the existence or non-existence of a god. Therefore, according to the agnostic conciliator, because it is a matter of individual taste, belief and disbelief in a supreme being are deserving of equal respect and attention. Dawkins presents the teapot as a reductio ad absurdum of this position: if agnosticism demands giving equal respect to the belief and disbelief in a supreme being, then it must also give equal respect to belief in an orbiting teapot, since the existence of an orbiting teapot is just as plausible scientifically as the existence of a supreme being.[5]

Carl Sagan uses Russell's teapot in the chapter "The Dragon In My Garage" in his book The Demon-Haunted World, and says "Your inability to invalidate my hypothesis is not at all the same thing as proving it true."[6]

 

[Mr. Numb3rs]

 

[PlasmaTwa2]

You're all retarded. Except for johnny and zell.

 

[Shifty]

Reason and intelligence dictate atheism.

 

[dirtylittleholly]

Every day I thank god I'm an atheist.

True dat. lol :angels:

 

[Deepcover]

Funny what emotional trauma does to critical thought, no? Fortunately, we have many scientific examples and explanations for things like that. Though really, you don't even need all that to explain deathbed conversions. There's a very simple explanation to that: fear.

Fear of what? Death. I'll explain death for you: when you die, that's it. There is no existence after. How could I possibly know that, you ask? The same way I know when I let go of a pencil, it'll fall toward the earth until stopped by something. Or how momentum and inertia works. Logic and experimentation. All credible knowledge points to our 'existence' being comprised simply as electrical wiring in a few pounds of gray matter. When that matter suffers trauma, the wiring gets fucked up and we lose part of our existence (Alzheimer's, amnesia, concussions, etc.). It logically follows, then, that when this wiring shuts off completely, that's it folks - done. Gone. Nadda. Not even something to notice yourself no longer existing. No darkness, heaven or hell.

Think of it this way: it's just like you were before you were born!

That's fine and i'm sure you're right but it also seems to me you would only believe in the existence of God if you witness that experience by your own two eyes but even science can't explain that or what's on the other side of death. I don't read the Bible 24/7 but there is some (not all) strong points to it and for many centuries the stories is still remembered. Think of the movie "Mean Streets" Harvey Keitel is living in sin/guilt yet he wants to do the right thing. He knows in his heart that he is weak and that God and the Church is strong and that's why he must seek out for redemption even if it may cost him his life. Imo there is some truths to it all. Maybe i'm judging but how come people who don't believe in God rather believe in money? Or why do atheists (some not all) seem to have an ignorant attitude towards life or in those who have a strong sense in faith and the caring of others? Can science answer those questions for me? Can I ask science for forgiveness?

 

[zell]

From what I've seen, the logical arguments for whether God(s) exist (for that's the only real realm one can debate such an existence because, as you say, no evidence exists) all point to deism for as far as their logic holds (which admittedly, isn't that far). No logical argument I've seen makes a case for an active, intelligent Abrahamic being.


Bring in the Flying Spaghetti Monster, or its original form, Russell's teapot. Here's a good excerpt from its Wiki article:

Totally not what I meant.The thing with Dawkins and the late Christopher Hitchens is that their main battle is against The Bible and they can't seem to see past that.I personally am truly on their side with that,because I also think that The Bible is pretty ridiculous,especially considering that it's all pretty much stolen stories anyway,but not even the biggests skeptics and atheist will even bring that fact up.

Nonetheless,one of my main points of argument is that these guys claim to be on the side of science,yet a majority of theoretical physicists believe that there are multidimensions in space,yet no one is willing to explore the possibilities of beings existing in any of those mutidimensions.

In all,both sides just need to shut the fuck up.Leave your religion out of politics,and live your life and the world will be a better place.

You're all retarded. Except for johnny and zell.

Thanks.

 

[Hypergalaxy]

Why common sense and facts.

 

[Rattrap]

That's fine and i'm sure you're right but it also seems to me you would only believe in the existence of God if you witness that experience by your own two eyes but even science can't explain that or what's on the other side of death.

Given what I know about the brain's ability to distort reality to incredible lengths, I wouldn't believe in God even if I did see one with my own two eyes. Still wouldn't change the logical conclusion of the matter.

Or why do atheists (some not all) seem to have an ignorant attitude towards life or in those who have a strong sense in faith and the caring of others?

Ironically, I find this to be the opposite more often than not. Put it this way: do you think people will value their life and those around them more when they know this is all they get - one life - or when they figure they've got eternity in heaven waiting for them after?

People will be malevolent, of course, regardless, just as others will be benevolent regardless. But the people on the fence...

Totally not what I meant.The thing with Dawkins and the late Christopher Hitchens is that their main battle is against The Bible and they can't seem to see past that.I personally am truly on their side with that,because I also think that The Bible is pretty ridiculous,especially considering that it's all pretty much stolen stories anyway,but not even the biggests skeptics and atheist will even bring that fact up.

Nonetheless,one of my main points of argument is that these guys claim to be on the side of science,yet a majority of theoretical physicists believe that there are multidimensions in space,yet no one is willing to explore the possibilities of beings existing in any of those mutidimensions.

The thing is, the Abrahamic God (or any other active, intelligent God) is the only one that matters; deism is irrelevant. Calling the big bang God or saying that God got the ball rolling or any of these things simply don't matter; if God isn't involved now, it makes no difference whether God started the big bang or the big bang got itself going. This make sense? Not sure if I'm quite explaining it right...It's why the popular Atheist writers go after the Abrahamic religions. Extra-dimensional beings are simply beyond the scope of pragmatic discussion at this point in our scientific technology and understanding (but importantly, any effects, were there any, would fall into the scope of the falsifiable, a step up from religious claims).

Whether you think there once was or wasn't a God now dormant/uninterested doesn't affect how you act in the world. An active God 'telling' you, say, gays are bad but you should be sucking off infant foreskins, on the other hand, most definitely affects how you act in the world. And more importantly, affects those around you. Which is why folks like me rail against it.

In all,both sides just need to shut the fuck up.Leave your religion out of politics,and live your life and the world will be a better place.

Man, I couldn't agree more. But just one look at the Republican primary race and you can plainly see religion has absolutely poisoned the politics of the US. Religion has always sought to seek control over others. We have thousands of years of bloody history to prove it.

 

[windlockatc]

^ I used to think you were a thoughtful poster until I read that.

Being a lapsed Catholic myself, I find it hard to condemn people who disbelieve or who struggle with their faith. I still pray and I even pray for some of the more obnoxious people I've encountered, but I don't for the militant atheists. The man Jesus sent his followers out to evangelize with the admonishment that if they preach to someone who is unwilling to listen they should brush the dust from their sandals and move on. I think atheists should follow that same protocol and shut the fuck up when they encounter someone they are not going to convert.

I myself am a struggling Christian and do the same thing. It's difficult to condemn those who reject god.

 

[Booblicker426]

"Man, I couldn't agree more. But just one look at the Republican primary race and you can plainly see religion has absolutely poisoned the politics of the US. Religion has always sought to seek control over others. We have thousands of years of bloody history to prove it."~Rattrap

Hi everyone...i may not know anyone from here since i rarely sign on due to school work and such.
@Rattrap = Awesome Name....I used to watch that cartoon when I was younger.

About your comment, I am not much of an "arguing" kind of guy, but.... I am a bit rusty on History, but what bloody history are you pertaining to?
do you happen to have a title of a book or a link for your argument?

Also your statement about "Given what I know about the brain's ability to distort reality to incredible lengths, I wouldn't believe in God even if I did see one with my own two eyes. Still wouldn't change the logical conclusion of the matter."~Rattrap
I thought the point of being an "Atheist" was a way to express the Lack of belief in a Higher Being

I have met a lot of people in my time some of a religion and some that consider themselves Atheist(some of who are friends of mine as well)...and the Atheist's tell me..they would believe in a higher deity...if...and only if they saw that deity with their own 2 eyes.

"Given what I know about the brain's ability to distort reality to incredible lengths"~Rattrap
You speak as if we don't exist at all. If so, how is it that we are communicating within the realms of the internet typing on our keyboards on physical matter?

 

[Rattrap]

@Rattrap = Awesome Name....I used to watch that cartoon when I was younger.

Why, thanks. Always was one of my favorites!

About your comment, I am not much of an "arguing" kind of guy, but.... I am a bit rusty on History, but what bloody history are you pertaining to?
do you happen to have a title of a book or a link for your argument?

I'm referring to any of the following: the Crusades, the frequent religious violence that breaks out in modern times in Africa, the Middle East, and elsewhere, the Spanish conquistadors with their arrival to the Americas, etc. Basically, open up a history book about a conflict, and more often than not I'd wager, you'll find religion's touch.

Also your statement about "Given what I know about the brain's ability to distort reality to incredible lengths, I wouldn't believe in God even if I did see one with my own two eyes. Still wouldn't change the logical conclusion of the matter."~Rattrap
I thought the point of being an "Atheist" was a way to express the Lack of belief in a Higher Being

Not sure I understand.

I have met a lot of people in my time some of a religion and some that consider themselves Atheist(some of who are friends of mine as well)...and the Atheist's tell me..they would believe in a higher deity...if...and only if they saw that deity with their own 2 eyes.

"Given what I know about the brain's ability to distort reality to incredible lengths"~Rattrap
You speak as if we don't exist at all. If so, how is it that we are communicating within the realms of the internet typing on our keyboards on physical matter?

Ah, no, don't get me wrong; we're here, for all pragmatic purposes. We could wax into the realm of Matrix-like realities and the like, but these simply aren't pragmatic avenues of discussion or thinking. What I'm saying is, people all over see a man on the moon because we're biologically wired to seek patterns, see things that aren't there. This is why people see Elvis in peanuts and Satan in smoke. These are only mild examples of distortions of reality, but they're done all the time by perfectly healthy people. I look at trees and see faces in the bark. It's simply part of our nature - but that doesn't mean Elvis and Satan are present. Throw in drugs or a lack of necessary chemicals for the brain at times of stress (say, near-death experiences[SUP]1[/SUP] for one example) and the human mind can come up with all sorts of crazy shit. Purple elephants, God, whatever!

My point being, personal experience proves nothing - not even my own. Human beings are perfectly able to see whatever they want to see, whatever they think they should see, whatever they've been told they will see. This is why science and logic are such powerful tools for knowledge. Of course, the people performing the logic or experiments are susceptible to see what they want no less than anyone else - that's why scientific research is published with means to reproduce the experiment, to reduce the human error.

And it works! As you say here we are, tapping away at keyboards on computers - purely logical machines!



[SUP]1[/SUP]http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=peace-of-mind-near-death&WT.mc_id=SA_CAT_SP_20110912: "Peace of Mind: Near-Death Experiences Now Found to Have Scientific Explanations - Seeing your life pass before you and the light at the end of the tunnel, can be explained by new research on abnormal functioning of dopamine and oxygen flow"

 

[freeryan]

"Why don't you believe in god?" "Which god?" "Mine." "Why yours and not the others?" "Because I don't believe they exist." "BINGO!"

 

[C.K. Lawrence]

Free will. It is your choice. :hatsoff:

 

[Red Spyder]

I may need to rewatch that episode of "Through the Wormhole" with Morgan Freeman about the existence of the human soul, it was rather interesting trying to prove/disprove its existence. The short version: what happens to the information in our brains? According to physics, information cannot be destroyed (or something like that) and it is tied to the universe, so when our bodies die, it just leaves our body or I don't know...anyway, don't really remember too much about it because it was a long time ago and I was drinking while watching it. Go watch it!

 

[bobjustbob]

Being an aethiest is really just being realistic.

You take the wasted energy and effort lost in believing and pursuing the ficticious and can apply it to more healthy pursuits like -

Being able to walk down the street with your head held high knowing that you answer to only yourself and that some high and mighty know it all isnt judging you based on their archaic rule system

You can stand on your own two feet, unlike some brainwashed sheep who follow the herd because they lack the self awareness to get by without the crutch that is religion.

Live without the persecution of others who claim their fictitious beardie man or six armed elephant is better, superior blah blah blah

When you believe as you have said, and that these beliefs stand above all of the others, that is your religion.

 

[DP_LOVER]

In its basic form, religion acts as a comfort blanket for those who believe; lead a good life, treat others well and you will be rewarded. Theres a lot to be said for this, whether its karma, going to 'heaven' after you die or just simply the good feeling you get after doing a good deed, if more people lived their lives this way then the world would be a better place. It is when religion becomes more than just a guide, that problems occur.

One thing I am fundamentally against, is people trying to force their beliefs onto others. Whether Christian, Muslim, atheist or other i truly believe that if you find comfort in whatever belief system you chose to live your life by, and that it does not affect others around you then carry on. What I do not like is when I see people in the streets preaching about how they need to 'find God' in order to be saved, or when I hear an atheist dispelling the beliefs of others and pointing out the flaws in their religion.

I consider myself an atheist, and i admit that when i was younger i would perhaps try and influence others to believe as i did, and to explain why i thought that there was no God, but now im older i realise that makes me as bad as someone shouting in the street, or knocking on your door and preaching. I have read the God Delusion, and although Dawkins makes some very good and, in my opinion, valid points, i did feel at times that the book was an advert for the world of atheism. he talked about how the world 'opened up' to him, and how he could see 'all the glory of nature' once he had removed the religious ideologies that surround us. Whilst i share his enthusiasm for the natural world in which we live in, i do not need someone to tell me that life will be better if we discount God, just as I dont need someone telling me that my world will be better if i believe in a God.

 

[Red Spyder]

You know, the reason why I don't think myself as an atheist is to avoid being associated with pseudo-intellectual smug assholes like this:

"Ooooh, look at me!!! I'm an atheist!! I'm smarter than thou!"

Religion may not have all the answers, but neither does science. Maybe together they both could provide them, the problem is closed minded individuals on both sides of the issue. On one side "that theory is blasphemous" on the other side "shut up, you retard". Instead of keeping an open mind like "that theory COULD be possible" and "maybe God DOES exist" instead of just trying to outscream each other.

But I think atheists will NEVER even consider the existence of God because they got more to lose if they are wrong about it than Christians got to lose about, let's say, being wrong on evolution. Think about it, if Christians are wrong on evolution and we all did come from monkeys, it's "oops, who would have thunk!? okay,we're wrong" But if atheists are wrong about the existence of God, it's eternal damnation.

 

[fkknuckle]

Atheists and bible thumpers make my penis soft!

 

[STDiva]

You know, the reason why I don't think myself as an atheist is to avoid being associated with pseudo-intellectual smug assholes like this:

"Ooooh, look at me!!! I'm an atheist!! I'm smarter than thou!"

Religion may not have all the answers, but neither does science. Maybe together they both could provide them, the problem is closed minded individuals on both sides of the issue. On one side "that theory is blasphemous" on the other side "shut up, you retard". Instead of keeping an open mind like "that theory COULD be possible" and "maybe God DOES exist" instead of just trying to outscream each other.

But I think atheists will NEVER even consider the existence of God because they got more to lose if they are wrong about it than Christians got to lose about, let's say, being wrong on evolution. Think about it, if Christians are wrong on evolution and we all did come from monkeys, it's "oops, who would have thunk!? okay,we're wrong" But if atheists are wrong about the existence of God, it's eternal damnation.

At least science is pursuing answers. Religion just believes and that's enough.