War, what is it good for?

[Mr. Daystar]

Exactly. Let's not forget that the US took out al-Qaeda leader al-Zawahiri inside his house, without even injuring anyone else. Let alone killing everyone in the neighbourhood.

That's because we were killing a criminal, not ethnically cleansing a neighborhood.

 

[tvstrip]

That's because we were killing a criminal, not ethnically cleansing a neighborhood.

I was responding to this:

They have high end tech, hell most of it came from the US, and we tend to be fairly accurate with our delivery of munitions.

Point being, the US high end tech now has the ability to be extremely accurate and minimize collateral damage. To the point where you can kill a single person without even injuring anyone else in the house. If the US is going to give tech to the idf, maybe that's the stuff they should be asking for?

The problem is, from what we've seen, the idf doesn't care about this sort of thing.

 

[Mr. Daystar]

I was responding to this:


Point being, the US high end tech now has the ability to be extremely accurate and minimize collateral damage. To the point where you can kill a single person without even injuring anyone else in the house. If the US is going to give tech to the idf, maybe that's the stuff they should be asking for?

The problem is, from what we've seen, the idf doesn't care about this sort of thing.

Well it all kind of fits together. They COULD do just as well as we do, but then they wouldn't kill off as many people as they want. My point being they know EXACTLY what they're doing, and they stand straight faced, and lie to us, without a single drop of remorse. If any other country has our tech, it's Israel. They think they're fooling the world, and they have for many years, but people are starting to notice. Look around dude, people are getting really pissed off about Israel, and they're starting to not be afraid to say it. That's a good thing, but they also don't realize that once Palestine does get a state, if they get a state, they will still sponsor terror, as will every other muslim shithole in the region, and they will continue to try and ethnically cleanse the Jews. Both sides want the other obliterated, they just won't come right out and say it. It's more about religion, then land.

 

[tvstrip]

From what I've read Israel only targeted Hamas missile and military sites, most of which were built near Palestinians homes.

bibi is saying that he wants to rescue the hostages as well.

Here's something I don't see addressed: hamas is keeping the hostages in their most heavily guarded sites, as they won't anyone escaping or being rescued. Did it occur that the bombing of hamas targets on the scale that they are, will only increase the chance they will accidentally bomb the hostages? Or are the hostages also acceptable collateral damage?

 

[tvstrip]

Well it all kind of fits together. They COULD do just as well as we do, but then they wouldn't kill off as many people as they want. My point being they know EXACTLY what they're doing, and they stand straight faced, and lie to us, without a single drop of remorse. If any other country has our tech, it's Israel. They think they're fooling the world, and they have for many years, but people are starting to notice. Look around dude, people are getting really pissed off about Israel, and they're starting to not be afraid to say it. That's a good thing, but they also don't realize that once Palestine does get a state, if they get a state, they will still sponsor terror, as will every other muslim shithole in the region, and they will continue to try and ethnically cleanse the Jews. Both sides want the other obliterated, they just won't come right out and say it. It's more about religion, then land.

For sure, world opinion is changing fast, and no longer taking israeli's BS. And I think that's great.

On the latter point, that's why I'm saying that israel NEEDS to commit to the rebuilding of Palestine, along with giving it statehood. But they've shown no interest - listen to what they say: all they care about is destroying hamas. Not a word about what happens after that.

@Mr. Daystar I get your concerns that they'll just become "another" Muslim country, but let me throw this out there:
Gratitude is a universal concept. All Races, religions, nationalities understand it. Heck, it's not just a human concept, as even animals understand it.
If (and that's a FUCKING HUGE "IF") israel builds up Palestine to the living standards that israel enjoys, the Palestinian people, Muslim or not, will be grateful for it. That will put a damper on them being an extremist israel/west hating country.

Germany and Japan are Western allies because of this. Even countries like Taiwan don't resent WWII Japan, because even under annexation, Japan built them up to a first world nation. The Soviets were also masters of this too. Even today, China is gaining huge support/influence in Africa, because they are supporting tons of building/infrastructure projects there.

People don't forget grudges, but they don't forget gratitude either.

 

[tvstrip]

Gaza looks like a wasteland from space in these before-and-after photos
https://apnews.com/article/satellit...ruction-gaza-4477db1cfc39f38ac6cfff55330a7635

And if israel does want to commit to rebuilding, there's no shortage of work

 

[Mr. Daystar]

For sure, world opinion is changing fast, and no longer taking israeli's BS. And I think that's great.

On the latter point, that's why I'm saying that israel NEEDS to commit to the rebuilding of Palestine, along with giving it statehood. But they've shown no interest - listen to what they say: all they care about is destroying hamas. Not a word about what happens after that.

@Mr. Daystar I get your concerns that they'll just become "another" Muslim country, but let me throw this out there:
Gratitude is a universal concept. All Races, religions, nationalities understand it. Heck, it's not just a human concept, as even animals understand it.
If (and that's a FUCKING HUGE "IF") israel builds up Palestine to the living standards that israel enjoys, the Palestinian people, Muslim or not, will be grateful for it. That will put a damper on them being an extremist israel/west hating country.

Germany and Japan are Western allies because of this. Even countries like Taiwan don't resent WWII Japan, because even under annexation, Japan built them up to a first world nation. The Soviets were also masters of this too. Even today, China is gaining huge support/influence in Africa, because they are supporting tons of building/infrastructure projects there.

People don't forget grudges, but they don't forget gratitude either.

I've got no hope for that strip, No one over there wants peace. No one over there wants anything more then absolute control. I just can't see it ever happening. As far as Japan and Germany goes, they aren't muslim countries. This will never work out, because muslims will not accept anybody who is not muslim. I know people say it's wrong to generalize, but if you think about all of the years they had to come to an agreement, but they haven't been able to. Even the muslim countries that say they can accept Israel, IF Palestine is given a state, will support terror on the side, under the table, because for generation, for centuries, they've hated each other because that worship God the wrong way. I guess I'm just a "glass is half empty" kind of thinker, but I don't think it's ever going to happen.

 

[Supafly]

The people that represent the people that call themselves the Palestinians are 74 of 132 seats Hamas, 45 of 132 are Fatah, PLO (3), ...

The Palestinians have a pretty obvious course they chose, and they harvest what they planned and sowed over the years.

I think that Gaza and West Bank should be dissolved, and the inhabitants moved to brother countries consisting of fellow islamic citizens.

This happened in Europe after Germany lost the second World War, fittingly also after trying to wipe out all the Jews in the world.

Muslim extremism is a cancer in these lands that needs to be cut out.

 

[tvstrip]

Interesting testimony from one of the rescued jewish hostages:

Israeli media, also traumatized by Hamas attack, become communicators of Israel's message
https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/worl...communicators-of-israel-s-message/ar-AA1j2YJb

When 85-year-old Israeli woman Yocheved Lifshitz was released from Hamas captivity last week, she was warmly welcomed home. Then she began to speak.
Addressing reporters from a wheelchair at a hospital, Lifshitz described a harrowing experience in Hamas captivity but also said she had been fairly treated. Israeli media instantly seized on that nuanced portrayal as a blow to the country's messaging that Hamas are savages.

A panel of reporters on the top-rated Channel 12 news also appeared flummoxed by her description of captors who were polite, fed their hostages, kept their quarters clean and and provided medical care. They criticized officials for not coaching her before she appeared before reporters.

 

[Mr. Daystar]

That seems to be Israel's style. All a part of that victim card. Same shit the dems do in America, when they try to grab guns. Of course the rep. do it. when trying to stop abortion. No one is honest, no one wants truth and justice, and they think we're all to stupid to know what fucking garbage they all are. indisputable truth, that both sides are lying pigs.

 

[gmase]

Interesting testimony from one of the rescued jewish hostages:

Israeli media, also traumatized by Hamas attack, become communicators of Israel's message
https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/worl...communicators-of-israel-s-message/ar-AA1j2YJb

The kidnappers treated the hostages fairly. Yes, that is better than treating the hostages unfairly. Not taking hostages in the first place would be optimal.

• Hamas is also claiming 50 have been killed by air strikes.
• 30 children are among the hostages

The same article reports "The Hamas-run Health Ministry reported Thursday that the total death toll has soared past 7,000 Palestinians, including 2,913 minors. More than 800 children in Gaza remain missing." That number will increase as hostilities continue.

I revert back to my an earlier post: "How did Hamas think Israel would retaliate to their attack?"

I think that Gaza and West Bank should be dissolved, and the inhabitants moved to brother countries consisting of fellow islamic citizens.

Why? The two-state solution has been the preferred solution for some time. It seems to make sense to me.

This happened in Europe after Germany lost the second World War, fittingly also after trying to wipe out all the Jews in the world.

Muslim extremism is a cancer in these lands that needs to be cut out.

Extremism in all forms does need to be marginalized. Then you have this by Barry Goldwater: "Extremism in defense of liberty is no vice. Moderation in pursuit of justice is no virtue.” That leads to discussions about what are vices and virtues!

 

[Luxman]

Crowd storms Russian airport after arrival of flight from Israel - Oct 30, 2023

 

[gmase]

Interesting testimony from one of the rescued jewish hostages:

Israeli media, also traumatized by Hamas attack, become communicators of Israel's message
https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/worl...communicators-of-israel-s-message/ar-AA1j2YJb

Experiences vary.
https://news.yahoo.com/german-israeli-shani-louk-confirmed-102851187.html
https://nypost.com/2023/10/30/news/shani-louk-kidnapped-at-israeli-music-festival-found-dead/

This girl was abducted from the music festival and then paraded through Gaza unconscious and in her ‘underwear.’ They identified her through a skull fragment - but her body has not been recovered.

 

[Luxman]

Fact Check: Al Jazeera 'Pre-Shot' Footage of Dead Bodies in 2023 Israel-Hamas Conflict?
https://news.yahoo.com/fact-check-al-jazeera-pre-204600222.html

 

[tvstrip]

The kidnappers treated the hostages fairly. Yes, that is better than treating the hostages unfairly. Not taking hostages in the first place would be optimal.

Probably worth clarifying that this is not to say that the kidnappers are good people - kidnappers are shits who deserve to die, no matter how you cut it.

The point I was hoping to make was that they are being kept in secure buildings with access to food and necessities. Places like hamas buildings/bunkers - exactly the types of places that are being bombed.

 

[Mr. Daystar]

Probably worth clarifying that this is not to say that the kidnappers are good people - kidnappers are shits who deserve to die, no matter how you cut it.

The point I was hoping to make was that they are being kept in secure buildings with access to food and necessities. Places like hamas buildings/bunkers - exactly the types of places that are being bombed.

That's a classic muslim move. Even regulated state armies, like Iran, when we fought them, like to stash prisoners, and munitions near, or in civilian buildings, because they know we won't target them. I think they learned it from the Germans, in WWII. They know we play by rules, and obviously, they don't. That's why we'll never beat them, because we won't fight like them, and they won't observe rules of warfare. It's something that Israel is well aware of, and likely why they really don't seem to care about collateral damage. They know that 8 year old little boy, will one day grow up to hate Israel, not only because of how they act, but simply because they aren't muslim. If the Jews were gone, they would be trying to exterminate the Christians, or I should say will, try and destroy.

 

[tvstrip]

It's something that Israel is well aware of, and likely why they really don't seem to care about collateral damage.

It's bad enough when you don't care about Palestinian civilians, but that gets kicked up a notch when you don't care about your own becoming collateral damage as well.

Israeli hostage negotiations:

 

[Mr. Daystar]

That's because Christians, and Jews....in fact almost every religion puts a value on life, and feels taking them, and your own, is wasteful, or sinful, depending on who and how. Allowances are made for war, and justice, but never for suicide or anger and hatred. The muslims don't hold that value. They reward suicide for the cause, or violence for the cause. If muslims were being held prisoner in a civilian building, not only would their counterparts not think twice about bombing it, the muslim prisoners would gladly give their lives up for the cause, their religion, and to see their enemy die, and the people doing the bombing of those targets know that. It's very hard to go to war with an ideology. During both Gulf wars it was stressed heavily that this is a war on terror, not islam, but that isn't true, because they are one and the same. You can't destroy terror, or terrorism. The idea is instilled into them from birth. They are brought up to believe anyone that isn't muslim, is a threat, and an infidel.

 

[tvstrip]

Do you think we can agree that there is a difference between the average Muslim and an extremist jihadi?

 

[gmase]

Do you think we can agree that there is a difference between the average Muslim and an extremist jihadi?

I can agree with that.