Virginia Tech Shooter

It will happen again, as it has happened many times before ...

Its gonna be real tough to find a solution to help prevent this from happening again.
There is no "solution." It's happened before. It will happen again.

It happened decades ago when guns were freely allowed on secondary as well as college campuses. It will happen in the future even if guns are outlawed. It will happen again and again, no matter what we try to do.

We need a very well thought out system, I hope someone has an Idea, a real Idea, not just another feel good measure, but something that actually works. It is a tough one.
Nothing "actually works," there is no "real idea," there is no "silver bullet."

The only thing that works "well enough" is ...
A) Teach people to respect life
B) Teach people to respect guns
C) Teach people to respect others
And most importantly ...
D) Teach people to respect themselves

Until then, the lawyers, politicians and media will have their continued field day. There will be copycat killings, posturing, attitudes, expulsions, etc... all in the name of "protecting our ****." And it will accomplish nothing, and be far removed from the simple concepts of A, B, C and, especially, D above.

That begins with responsibility for one's own actions, something that is inversely in the interest of the sensationalist US TV media which caters to the cravings of the 25% of Americans that drive TV ratings. And, unfortunately, a sizable demographic of that 25% are those ages 18-25.
 
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Looks like he did it because he hated rich ****.
He hated rich ****.
The Columbine **** were rich, but geeks, and hated jocks.
Everyone has a fucking excuse to not respect life, others, much less themselves.
They had no interest in being responsible Americans, and dealing with the burden of freedom.

They are now gone, and took people with them, and we have all suffered.
Not with just in their actions, but in our collective, sensationalist-driven, over-analyzing, over-lawyered clusterfuck aftermath.
People asked me what I thought of the VT shootings.
I just have one phrase I've been using ...

"An irresponsible American who knows not what Freedoms he ******."
Much like the Columbine **** before him, much like those over the decades who ****** far more as well.
"Because he didn't respect others, which means he didn't respect himself."
That's the cause, not guns.

Columbine was the alleged worst tragedy.
There is now analysis trying to qualify this as the worst tragedy.
Some have clarified it with a big asterisk as the "worst tragedy in modern times."
Frankly, the worst tragedy is watching ourselves in the mirror -- or lackthereof -- over this ordeal.

OK. sorry, that was in poor taste. I was just trying to make a humorous light of another post, I wasn't trying to make fun of this topic.
Don't worry, there's enough "vulgarity" in all this to pin on almost everyone here, especially those that have a political agenda.
 
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Sir, I said "help prevent" these things. Not stop all together.
Also there can be a system or criteria followed by schools to "help prevent" this stuff which also doesn't create a witch hunt mentality and is effective but obviously not foolproof.
And please prof. if youve ever read any of my past posts here you would know I am one of the last people you need to remind about taking responsablity for ones own actions.
 
Not possible ...

Sir, I said "help prevent" these things.
Not possible, except to go outside the common thinking and realize attacking the "respect" and "worth" aspects are pretty much the common issue. That's really the only way to prevent many things. People keep looking at the immediate results, based on the fear of what could happen, and not where this young man went wrong long before in the first place. It wasn't really a matter of if, but when, and trying to prevent when doesn't go very far.
Also there can be a system or criteria followed by schools to "help prevent" this stuff which also doesn't create a witch hunt mentality and is effective but obviously not foolproof.
Nope, they pretty much create "profiling" and other situations. As much some might be be "well thought out" and "good natured," the threat of lawsuits result in the lawyers default "you have to report it" aspect for administrators. Law, not psychology, takes over, and we all lose.

In other words, to summarize, any prevention will only result in the labeling, prosecution and ********* of rights of law-abiding, considerate, responsible and respecting, innocent individuals. Seen it too many times today -- or let me rephrase that -- I've seen it too many times in public institutions today. ;)

And please prof. if youve ever read any of my past posts here you would know I am one of the last people you need to remind about taking responsablity for ones own actions.
I'm not reminding you. I know what you say has good intentions. I'm just saying that even if 99% of you have the "best intentions" and even "great ideas," the lawyers will ensure they will be implemented to the full aspect of "limiting liability" rather than "limiting loss of life against rights." ;)
 
University Administrations ... Why Several Organizations and Fraternities Exist ...

On the other hand, you also don't want to institute witch hunts on campus for strange students because you will infringe on rights, stigmatize mental health care, and many students won't seek help on their own for fear of adverse repercussions. Within the last year, for example, the US media ran an article on several students across the country who were expelled from school for mental illness or seeking mental health care. It is a fine line universities have to walk.
People forget that University Administrations can be considered political entities -- especially when it comes to either long-established, legacy universities, as well as very large universities. VT (as well as my own Alma Mater) falls in the latter category. University Presidents and their Administrations can cause their own issues, with their pressures, lobbies, resulting policies, crusades, etc..., or just to cover up their own failures.

I've seen it first hand.

When I was in college, my President and his Administration misappropriated funds earmarked for student groups to facilities. The first three times they took a quarter of a million dollars, we (the student body) signed off. The fourth time, totaling a full million, we barked as we were not consulted for yet a 4th time, which was already against the bylaws of the university and could be criminal from a financial aspect (separate, incorporated entities). It was almost 1/6th of our total budget at that point, and that money was earmarked for student organization funding, including many engineering ones (like mine). I.e., we were going to have to cancel large portions of engineering week, at a major engineering college.

He tried to get political, and we instantly barked back that our college (engineering) brings in the most private funding (over $40M/year at the time, much more now). He was personally pissed with the 7 of us representing the engineering college. He then demanded we sign or he would disband student government. While some of the student body backed down, we (representing the engineering college -- 1 of 5 in the university) did not. He not only disbanded student government, but referred some of us personally to the Board of Regents (possibly holding up our graduation), and called for a full audit. But it didn't end there.

The total dismissal of all student representation hit the media statewide, and he was under fire.

So then he fabricated facts for the media, and we were personally and professionally cruxified. We were publicly accused of everything from embezzlement to what could be considered extortion. My parents almost disowned me, and would not listen to a word I said, and cut off any funding while I was in college (although I was working full-time and on-my-feet at that point -- can't say the same for some of my colleagues). Of course, then the university President was stupid.

He directly created a new, student body, and in pure spite, refused to accept any representatives from the engineering college. That pissed off the Dean of the College of Engineering, and we found ourselves a "new ally." It got worse. The Dean of Student Affairs was in charge of personally appointing the new body, and 0 were non-minorities. That then pissed off many people in the college, and caused in-fighting in the University Administration.

In the end, a full year later, the Board of Regents cleared our names, restored the original Student Body, re-appropriated funds and slapped the entire, statewide university system with with countless limitations on the powers of the University Administration. Of course, none of this was reported publicly, and my parents -- to this day -- are still ashamed of me for that time by what they saw on the TV, and twice in my career people still remembered my name from that negative publicity.

Now what does this have to do with the shootings? Nothing, directly. But it does go to show that large universities (my Alma Mater is much like VT in size, focus, etc...) are heavy, political environments. They are not interested in due process, people are wrongly prosecuted for their views and values, and most people never know the truth of anything. Especially not the aftermath. Especially not the innocent. Especially not the ********* on anyone's name or rights.

So when people talk about "what we must do," I say, "nothing, nothing at all, please, for God's sake, please" and definitely not in the aftermath! The results will be more political than anything. And please, for God's sake, don't always believe what you read in the papers when it comes from one source -- especially not a large university and its administration!

In fact, many college fraternities in the United States were founded to ouster their university administrations -- including the fraternity I joined. It's not all about parties or what you see in the movies.
 
Personally, I think either no private citizens should be legally allowed to carry a *** OR every private citizen (who qualifies) should by law have to own a *** and be allowed to carry it concealed.

If the latter were true, there is virtually no way (imo) that this nut would have been able to do what he did the other day in the way that he did it.
As I highly doubt he is going to start shooting on a class knowing that almost everyone in their could be 'packing'.
 
Have they made a connection between Cho and the Girl he ****** in the dorm?
 
It was a terrible thing to happen - no doubt about it

but i've got 2 points to put out there

- he bought the *** shortly before the crime from a virginia *** dealership, after ticking the box on the form to confirm that he did NOT have psychological problems

- on the same day around 150 + people were ****** in Iraq
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just a couple of things to think about
 
Have they made a connection between Cho and the Girl he ****** in the dorm?

This is a six million dollars question. Did Cho **** the Girl and RA in the dormitory that triggered further shooting later on? I do believe there was an "encouter" between the girl in the dormitory and Cho in the past.

There was a gap of almosts 2 hours 30 minutes because Cho knew classes did not start until 9 a.m. and he had to go to the post office and also waited until most went into the class around 9:25 a.m. and chained the entrance to the Engineering Building and started shooting.

Cho basically planned this all and targeted 4 classes and ****** 30 and wounded 15. Cho carried only enough M.O. to **** 50 students/faculty.

If Cho shot each ****** with at least three bullets then he probably ran out of M.O., Cho only carried 17 magazines with 561 bullets (estimated), his luck ran out when all his M.O. were fired. (Many shots were missed)
 
Does anybody buy that he ****** himself bullshit? They said the same thing with the Columbine ****. Every1 knows the cops ****** him. And why are they bringin all these doctors on tv talkin bout he was schizo. Whatever happened to being just plain ol crazy as fuck!?
 
The guy was mentally ill, so they should have kept him in a mental institute before this tragedy happens.
 
Does anybody buy that he ****** himself bullshit? They said the same thing with the Columbine ****. Every1 knows the cops ****** him. And why are they bringin all these doctors on tv talkin bout he was schizo. Whatever happened to being just plain ol crazy as fuck!?

Dude, if the cops ****** this *** it would be the top story in the news. Cho committed suicide. He saved one bullet and when the time came he used it.
 
For the fuckin life of me i cannot understand why a metal detector was not/and is not at all these places.Whats the fuckin point of Campus Security when a total Nutcase can just walk straight in and start blowing people away?
It is now overdue that we carry on the type of security now seen at airports.:2 cents:
 
Have you ever been to a college campus?

For the fuckin life of me i cannot understand why a metal detector was not/and is not at all these places.
Have you ever been to a college campus? It's not like there are a couple "front doors" that you can secure. It's a sprawled out, wide open collection of buildings (sometimes inter-woven with the town/city they are in) and various locations, many just "open." Especially for an institute the size of Virginia Tech. So posting guards and metal detectors at every dorm, classroom and other building would not only be extremely cost prohibitive, but it wouldn't and couldn't secure many locations anyway.

So you've either never been to a college campus (and thinking of high schools) or are still in high school yourself. I assume the former, because all of your past posts suggest you are well into adulthood.
 
There is no "solution." It's happened before. It will happen again.

I agree with the Professor. You can't prevent things like this from happening short of mind reading and even that's questionable.

The only real life analogy I can think of is when I come home from work or class. I walk through the same door tens of thousands of times for the past god knows how many years. One day, the handle on my book bag catches on the door handle, and I fall and bang the fuck out of my hip. No logical reason. Nothing. **** happens all the time, and there's really no good reason for it.

My concern at this point is how to react in a situation like this. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I've heard diving under desks is the first mistake you can make.
 
It is impossible to control every person in the campus. You have a lot of possibilities to entry in a campus. A guy with a heel holster+a para ord or a glock and dressed like someone who does maintenance at the school (electricity, computer or other stuff) could have committed a crime like that as well. Never understimate people and their intelligence.
Also a stricter law forbidding mentally ill people to own weapons should have been instored.
 
On one side, you want to ensure that those who are a risk to themselves or others get a proper psychiatric evaluation and whatever mental health treatment they require. On the other hand, you also don't want to institute witch hunts on campus for strange students because you will infringe on rights, stigmatize mental health care, and many students won't seek help on their own for fear of adverse repercussions. Within the last year, for example, the US media ran an article on several students across the country who were expelled from school for mental illness or seeking mental health care. It is a fine line universities have to walk.

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cheers,

This one paragraph really says alot about situations like Vt and Colombine.
The post is reality.
I disagree that nothing can be done to prevent this crap from happening.
Preventing, not Stopping, theres a difference.
Its possible to impliment a protocol, or system. or course of action(call it what you want), to help prevent this from happeng more.
It is a thin line to walk without infringing on peoples rights. But there could be a standard set in place.

Also, with something like 350 million people in North America alone, I'm surprised this doesnt happen more often.:2 cents:
 
Re: Have you ever been to a college campus?

Have you ever been to a college campus? It's not like there are a couple "front doors" that you can secure. It's a sprawled out, wide open collection of buildings (sometimes inter-woven with the town/city they are in) and various locations, many just "open." Especially for an institute the size of Virginia Tech. So posting guards and metal detectors at every dorm, classroom and other building would not only be extremely cost prohibitive, but it wouldn't and couldn't secure many locations anyway.

So you've either never been to a college campus (and thinking of high schools) or are still in high school yourself. I assume the former, because all of your past posts suggest you are well into adulthood.

You are correct Professor i have never been to a college campus and im really sorry to hear they are set up like that in america because this will happen again and again.
Even though this has happened once in Australia,from what i have read and heard most Universitys here have the one main entrance and nowhere near the amount of Police control which is understandable given the size difference.
 
Er, um, er, I just can't even respond to that ...

You are correct Professor i have never been to a college campus and im really sorry to hear they are set up like that in america because this will happen again and again.
Er, um, er, I just can't even respond to that.
It's kinda hard to get 50,000 people in the same area, commonly with over half of those as full-time undergrads, typically as many as 15,000-20,000 on-campus between 10am-2pm.

Furthermore, the whole concept of the American college campus is room, labs, free-thinking areas, research, etc...
My Alma-Mater has a 400 acre campus with dozens upon dozens of buildings and halls and a 1,000 acre research area with hundreds of companies.

Even though this has happened once in Australia,from what i have read and heard most Universitys here have the one main entrance and nowhere near the amount of Police control which is understandable given the size difference.
Er, they must be really small.
 
Let's hope it's a false alarm

BREAKING NEWS: Lockdown at Virginia Tech amid report of gunman on campus

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