Another agenda, partisan politics.:2 cents:
Pushback time: Idaho threatens to sue
- Thread starter Will E Worm
- Start date
Another agenda, partisan politics.:2 cents:
Socialism is on the opposite end of the political spectrum of Fascism. Nazism is fascism. That Hitler named his party the National Socialist Party shows how popular and widespread socialist ideas were amongst the working masses of Germany at the time.
But Obamacare is not socialist in the least bit. There are different varieties of socialism.
Bourgeois socialism aims to pass measures that will subdue the anger of the toiling masses without endangering the capitalist system itself. Bourgeois socialism is practiced to greater and lesser degrees (depending on how strong and angry the toilers are) in Western Europe and Canada.
National socialism aims to prevent the working class from coming to power when the capitalist class is unable or unwilling to rule. It comes in two forms. The first is "real existing socialism" as existed in the USSR, the Eastern Bloc, Yugoslavia, China, and continues to exist in North Korea today. The means of production are taken into state ownership and administered by middle class bureaucrats. The second form of national socialism is fascism. Fascism arises when the capitalist class in rendered unable to rule. Rather than trying to rule themselves and eventually failing (as real existing socialism always does), the middle classes join in a ruling bloc with the capitalist class, helping to prop up their rule and system through a form of super capitalism. They turn democracy on its head, with corporate powers ruling society through their control of a massive state apparatus staffed by middle class bureaucrats. Fascism existed in Germany, Italy, Spain, Chile and a few other countries.
Proletarian socialism has sprung up a few times, only to be smashed to bits by capitalist governments and counterrevolution. It existed during the Paris Commune (1871), the St. Louis Commune (1877), the Bavarian revolution in Germany (1919), the Shanghai Commune (1925), the Spanish revolution (1936), May in France (1968), the Hungarian Revolution (1956), and in the early stages of the October Revolution in the Russian Empire (1917). Proletarian socialism aims to eliminate classes and wage slavery on a world scale through working class revolution and the replacement of private ownership of the means of production with public ownership and democratic control of industry.
There are other branches of socialism (feudal socialism, clerical socialism, etc.), but none are relevant to this discussion.
That said, Obamacare is a corporatist measure, not a socialist measure of any kind. Whereas socialized healthcare is a state controlled system, Obamacare is simply an attempt to taking the burden of paying for healthcare off of capitalist employers while simultaneously pumping more money into the private insurance giants by forcing everyone to take out a policy. This follows the model of Japan and South Korea.
Obamacare with neither destroy or preserve the system that exists in the US. It's simply an attempt by a certain section of the ruling class to "perfect" its rule. Every single industrialized country and many developing countries have some form of universal healthcare (including those that are much stronger economically than the US). See map: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/e/e7/Universal_Health_Care_World_Map.svg
The countries that don't have universal insurance are in the poorest parts of the world: Africa, Central America, the Caribbean, the Near East and Southeast Asia.
Besides, the US government already pays about 60% of healthcare costs in this country.
In order for real socialized medical coverage, in which anyone would be able to work into any public hospital anywhere and receive care with no questions or money asked, to come into being here, we'd have to dismantle the insurance giants all together. That kind of thing won't come from either of the two major parties, which are tied by thousands of strings to the insurance corporations.
But Obamacare is not socialist in the least bit. There are different varieties of socialism.
Bourgeois socialism aims to pass measures that will subdue the anger of the toiling masses without endangering the capitalist system itself. Bourgeois socialism is practiced to greater and lesser degrees (depending on how strong and angry the toilers are) in Western Europe and Canada.
National socialism aims to prevent the working class from coming to power when the capitalist class is unable or unwilling to rule. It comes in two forms. The first is "real existing socialism" as existed in the USSR, the Eastern Bloc, Yugoslavia, China, and continues to exist in North Korea today. The means of production are taken into state ownership and administered by middle class bureaucrats. The second form of national socialism is fascism. Fascism arises when the capitalist class in rendered unable to rule. Rather than trying to rule themselves and eventually failing (as real existing socialism always does), the middle classes join in a ruling bloc with the capitalist class, helping to prop up their rule and system through a form of super capitalism. They turn democracy on its head, with corporate powers ruling society through their control of a massive state apparatus staffed by middle class bureaucrats. Fascism existed in Germany, Italy, Spain, Chile and a few other countries.
Proletarian socialism has sprung up a few times, only to be smashed to bits by capitalist governments and counterrevolution. It existed during the Paris Commune (1871), the St. Louis Commune (1877), the Bavarian revolution in Germany (1919), the Shanghai Commune (1925), the Spanish revolution (1936), May in France (1968), the Hungarian Revolution (1956), and in the early stages of the October Revolution in the Russian Empire (1917). Proletarian socialism aims to eliminate classes and wage slavery on a world scale through working class revolution and the replacement of private ownership of the means of production with public ownership and democratic control of industry.
There are other branches of socialism (feudal socialism, clerical socialism, etc.), but none are relevant to this discussion.
That said, Obamacare is a corporatist measure, not a socialist measure of any kind. Whereas socialized healthcare is a state controlled system, Obamacare is simply an attempt to taking the burden of paying for healthcare off of capitalist employers while simultaneously pumping more money into the private insurance giants by forcing everyone to take out a policy. This follows the model of Japan and South Korea.
Obamacare with neither destroy or preserve the system that exists in the US. It's simply an attempt by a certain section of the ruling class to "perfect" its rule. Every single industrialized country and many developing countries have some form of universal healthcare (including those that are much stronger economically than the US). See map: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/e/e7/Universal_Health_Care_World_Map.svg
The countries that don't have universal insurance are in the poorest parts of the world: Africa, Central America, the Caribbean, the Near East and Southeast Asia.
Besides, the US government already pays about 60% of healthcare costs in this country.
In order for real socialized medical coverage, in which anyone would be able to work into any public hospital anywhere and receive care with no questions or money asked, to come into being here, we'd have to dismantle the insurance giants all together. That kind of thing won't come from either of the two major parties, which are tied by thousands of strings to the insurance corporations.
Will E Worm
Conspiracy...
^
Are you staying on the topic of your own thread, WillE, or inciting more meaningless lies and bullshit? Just askin', though not really carin'.
To directly address the topic of this thread my comments are as such:
Idaho is one of the dumbest and poorest states. It's so dumb and useless that it should be merged with a real state like Oregon or Washington because this grande piece of toilet paper legislation will only end up FORCING THE STATE to use tax payer money for frivolous lawsuits. Tax payer money that a dumb state like Idaho should spend on educumacatin' dem ranchers chitlins' :hatsoff:
Are you staying on the topic of your own thread, WillE, or inciting more meaningless lies and bullshit? Just askin', though not really carin'.
To directly address the topic of this thread my comments are as such:
Idaho is one of the dumbest and poorest states. It's so dumb and useless that it should be merged with a real state like Oregon or Washington because this grande piece of toilet paper legislation will only end up FORCING THE STATE to use tax payer money for frivolous lawsuits. Tax payer money that a dumb state like Idaho should spend on educumacatin' dem ranchers chitlins' :hatsoff:
Will E Worm
Conspiracy...
titsrock
Idaho should secede and base their health care system on bartering potatoes
The above is provided as incontrovertible evidence of the dumbing down of America :hatsoff:
The above is provided as incontrovertible evidence of the dumbing down of America :hatsoff:
Will E Worm
Conspiracy...
I agree you're comments are dumbing us all down. :tongue:
Your comments are so scarce you should find another board.
Will E Worm
Conspiracy...
There's no sense arguing with conspiracy theorists. Just pass them aluminum foil to add to their hat and call it a day.
Hopefully my post will be read by someone who would otherwise have been influenced by this rubbish and they will decide to do some research on their on.
The saddest part about this whole thing is that the general population in the United States is so politically-ignorant and used to scare monger tactics that someone can actually say something like "Socialism = Nazi = Obama is a Communist" without being laughed out of the room.
It's no coincidence that the only country in the developed world where this is possible is also the only one with no Labor Party or universal healthcare. :wave:
Fascism arose to counter the socialism of the USSR. The NAZIs in particular, took power after a failed socialist revolution in Germany. They were supported by the capitalist world as a bulwark against the USSR. They were defeated by the Union of Socialist Soviet Republics.
"Fascists accuse liberalism, as a bourgeois movement, and Marxism, as a proletarian movement, for both having created anarchy through support of democracy, Freemasonry, materialism, plutocracy, positivism, and rationalism." - Fascism: A Readers' Guide : Analysis, Interpretations, Bibliography. , Walter Laqueur.
PS. You want some real conspiracy-ready material? Check this: the pledge of allegiance was composed by Francis Bellamy, a well known Christian socialist. OMGZ!
I actually feel sorry for you Will E. You have absolutely no idea of what it is to be a real Christian. Your brand of what you call Christianity has nothing to do with being a Christian. :tongue:
You worship hate, ignorance, intolerance, misinformation, the King of England from the 1600’s and not Jesus.
You worship hate, ignorance, intolerance, misinformation, the King of England from the 1600’s and not Jesus.
Will E Worm
Conspiracy...
Because you can't n00b. :tongue:
Conspiracy fact, fixed for you.
There is no such thing as a Christian socialist.
You have no idea what true Christianity is.
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