Pentagon crash 9/11

[McRocket]

Well, I personally do not believe that it was anything but a passenger plane that hit those three targets that day that changed the western world.
However, if someone put a gun to my head and said was I sure. I would have to say no.

I wasen't there. So I cannot say. But I have seen little to no conclusive evidence to the contrary of what was reported.

However, Juballs is (imo) one of the most decent types on here. And he seems rather level headed. And he is not ramming it down our throats (like I sometimes try and do - me bad - lol). He seems to be calmly suggesting his alternative ideas.
He is merely making a suggestion and asking for proof. Now will he convince anyone in this thread? I dunno. It sounds like not. So far he hasen't convinced me. And based on what I have seen, I doubt he will. But he has got me thinking on the subject. And that can only be (imo) a good thing - obviously to a point.
I think it is good to ALWAYS question everything we are told until absolute proof is furnished. Of course, that is usually not possible. So there has to be some trust. But I for one think that trust should always be earned , not given away. And as long as people on here who ask us to consider other alternatives (like Juballs is) in a calm and non-combative way, I think that is a good thing.

And if he starts busting our ass about it in an abusive way...then ban him (lol). What the heck is he doing on here anyhow? Anyone seen a picture of his wife? Guys with women that good looking should not be allowed on here (lol).

 

[D-rock]

Me, I am an Occam's Razor type of person when it comes to this. The simplest answer is probably the correct one. While I acknowledge that conspiracies probably do happen, and I trust my government or any other for that mater about as far as I can shot put the planet we are all standing on, this would have to be the biggest conspiracy ever conceived by far. There is just too much evidence to change or hide short of all of us living in the matrix.

 

[thsdaysfreakish]

read this link it discusses it at full length,
it was a plane, eyewitnesses, and all
http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/august2004/110804factsstraight.htm
another thing we did not invade mexico, france germany etc
mexico, attacked america do you remember the alamo and then also a few years later mexico came across border and attacked america, then we declared war
France gave america and the allies permission to use Normandy as landing for the invasion, , so don't say all this bullshit about us invading other countries, its ridiculous, and if you want to know more info on the Iraq war and why we are there and the things that led up to it, read Tom Clancy's book about General Zinni, and the long going effort to stop Saddam, but everyone is allowed their own opinion,

 

[juballs]

Well, I personally do not believe that it was anything but a passenger plane that hit those three targets that day that changed the western world.
However, if someone put a gun to my head and said was I sure. I would have to say no.

I wasen't there. So I cannot say. But I have seen little to no conclusive evidence to the contrary of what was reported.

However, Juballs is (imo) one of the most decent types on here. And he seems rather level headed. And he is not ramming it down our throats (like I sometimes try and do - me bad - lol). He seems to be calmly suggesting his alternative ideas.
He is merely making a suggestion and asking for proof. Now will he convince anyone in this thread? I dunno. It sounds like not. So far he hasen't convinced me. And based on what I have seen, I doubt he will. But he has got me thinking on the subject. And that can only be (imo) a good thing - obviously to a point.
I think it is good to ALWAYS question everything we are told until absolute proof is furnished. Of course, that is usually not possible. So there has to be some trust. But I for one think that trust should always be earned , not given away. And as long as people on here who ask us to consider other alternatives (like Juballs is) in a calm and non-combative way, I think that is a good thing.

And if he starts busting our ass about it in an abusive way...then ban him (lol). What the heck is he doing on here anyhow? Anyone seen a picture of his wife? Guys with women that good looking should not be allowed on here (lol).

thank you mcrocket... i expected this from a person of your knowledge and class... i do not ask any of you to believe me, i am only offering my point of you and asking that you take it into consideration... just buy a tape watch it, make your decision, but dont just believe what you have been told

 

[D-rock]

read this link it discusses it at full length,
it was a plane, eyewitnesses, and all
http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/august2004/110804factsstraight.htm
another thing we did not invade mexico, france germany etc
mexico, attacked america do you remember the alamo and then also a few years later mexico came across border and attacked america, then we declared war
France gave america and the allies permission to use Normandy as landing for the invasion, , so don't say all this bullshit about us invading other countries, its ridiculous, and if you want to know more info on the Iraq war and why we are there and the things that led up to it, read Tom Clancy's book about General Zinni, and the long going effort to stop Saddam, but everyone is allowed their own opinion,

This may be a matter of semantics but their is a difference between conquering and invading a country, and if either you or I or anybody else got the terms confused, or used them a little too interchangeably I apologize. To invade just means to enter by armed force, which we have certainly done many times. Whoever has or doesn’t have the permission to go into a country by force is entirely a matter of opinion. I am sure all the countries that have opposed us thought the opposite way when it happened. Whoever was in the right is again a matter of opinion.

 

[ilovepornpics]

this is a very interesting topic. i first saw this about 10 months ago and disregarded it at first, but then i have read more into it. seems possible but how could you cover up something as big as that. people say they saw a fighter jet, ok its seems that someone would have said something about it. plus, there was no plane wreckage? ok if it wasn't there seems like that might have been brought up as well. i have heard alot of this i don't know what to believe. its seems like something bush would do, but this is like the bigggest cover up ever, if its true.

 

[om3ga]

How odd...
I've never disputed the facts behind American Airlines Flight #77 crashing into the Pentagon, or heard conspiracy theories disputing these facts until now.
If anything, I've always wondered about the Boeing 757 that was en route from Newark NJ to San Francisco, which crashed just outside Pittsburgh (United Airlines’ Flight 93). The official line is that the plane crashed after the passengers on board (who were informed about the other hijackings on 9/11 by cell phone) intervened to prevent the plane reaching its target.
However the conspiracy theory I've heard was that the US Air Force shot down Flight 93 and that the "passenger uprising" is a cover story:

http://www.konformist.com/911/93.htm

Ultimately - people believe what they want to believe.

 

[BNF]

..and ultimately many people are wrong.

I do not think that the members (including myself) who believe that there was a plane/ that did crash, are wrong in justifying and strongly disagreeing with the conspiracy theorists. It is absolutely no different than attacking nazi holocust deniers. In some cases, just the suggestion of a conspiracy is offensive and intentionally misleading. Just because people do not consider watery facts does not mean they are closed minded. It may simply mean that they are aware, secure and educated on the facts.

Conspiracies like these are insulting to everyone that died on the plane and the family members left behind. Why people want to create chaos out of simplicity is human nature - but it is what leads us to our downfalls.

The simple answers are the ones that lead to the truth in life.

 

[master-bator]

Someone mentioned this to me, and then I got a link this morning.

I take no political side on this question/issue, so please don't flame me for any contrary opinions. Like an Oliver Stone movie, it might need to be taken with a grain of salt rather then literally. My apologies if it pisses anyone off, I just thought it was interesting for this sig. Please remove any presumed opinions of me from any replies or discussions. :2 cents:


http://www.freedomunderground.org/memoryhole/pentagon.php#Main

Good post man it really makes you wonder.....but enough of the controversy

 

[McRocket]

How odd...
I've never disputed the facts behind American Airlines Flight #77 crashing into the Pentagon, or heard conspiracy theories disputing these facts until now.
If anything, I've always wondered about the Boeing 757 that was en route from Newark NJ to San Francisco, which crashed just outside Pittsburgh (United Airlines’ Flight 93). The official line is that the plane crashed after the passengers on board (who were informed about the other hijackings on 9/11 by cell phone) intervened to prevent the plane reaching its target.
However the conspiracy theory I've heard was that the US Air Force shot down Flight 93 and that the "passenger uprising" is a cover story:

http://www.konformist.com/911/93.htm

Ultimately - people believe what they want to believe.

Now THAT makes as much sense as anything. Obviously at some point the Air Force WAS going to shoot that plane down. So the passengers and crew would have been dead anyway. And it sure is nice that the government can turn a slightly embarrassing situation (shooting down an airliner) into a heroic rallying cry ('Let's roll').
I have no idea which is true. But it is interesting to me.

 

[McRocket]

..and ultimately many people are wrong.

I do not think that the members (including myself) who believe that there was a plane/ that did crash, are wrong in justifying and strongly disagreeing with the conspiracy theorists. It is absolutely no different than attacking nazi holocust deniers. In some cases, just the suggestion of a conspiracy is offensive and intentionally misleading. Just because people do not consider watery facts does not mean they are closed minded. It may simply mean that they are aware, secure and educated on the facts.

Conspiracies like these are insulting to everyone that died on the plane and the family members left behind. Why people want to create chaos out of simplicity is human nature - but it is what leads us to our downfalls.

The simple answers are the ones that lead to the truth in life.

I have NO idea why this would insult their memories. They are dead either way. And they are heroes either way. What difference does it make?

 

[AFA]

Just a small side point.

I was flying over Washington not long after 9/11. We were in thick cloud cover, and I carry a GPS when I fly just to pass the time, so I knew exactly where we were, the speed, altitude, heading, every turn the pilot took. As we passed Washington, I looked out and against the clouds saw the silhouette of an F-117 pulling away from the rear of the plane, an escort to make sure the pilot didn't take it down.

I also saw a group of vapor trails over NY, change direction at very high speed in tight turns at a very high altitude following 9/11.

I don't think anything like this was going on before 9/11 because it took everyone by surprise, so don't think flight 93 on 9/11 plane was shot down.

 

[domshooter]

First of all i would like to say that that video was bullshit. they were just taking a wack at Bush and the Govt, didnt you all notice hitlers speech in the first couple seconds. and theyre tryin to say that OUR OWN GOVT killed, no MURDERED thousands of ITS OWN CITIZENS just to launch us into a war. about the plane not bein found lemmi say sumthin: most airplanes are made of alluminum, and alluminum turns to liquid at high temperatures. the jet fuel burned melted the plane, and all passengers to nothingness, into a ball which punceh through the walls of the pentagon and melted on the othere side. whatever was left of the plane were small hardened pools of metal. the tapes bein taken and not released, they dont have to be given out. the freedom of information act says that all information in america can be seen by anyone, but it doesnt say that it has to(at least that what i remember). i love my country, and i support bush, not to say i like EVERYTHING hes done, but i support him. But i dont think that it should even be conceived that our govt would do this to us! thank you

 

[McRocket]

Just a small side point.

I was flying over Washington not long after 9/11. We were in thick cloud cover, and I carry a GPS when I fly just to pass the time, so I knew exactly where we were, the speed, altitude, heading, every turn the pilot took. As we passed Washington, I looked out and against the clouds saw the silhouette of an F-117 pulling away from the rear of the plane, an escort to make sure the pilot didn't take it down.

I also saw a group of vapor trails over NY, change direction at very high speed in tight turns at a very high altitude following 9/11.

I don't think anything like this was going on before 9/11 because it took everyone by surprise, so don't think flight 93 on 9/11 plane was shot down.

Interesting.

Are you sure, btw, that it was an f-117. They carry no gun or air-to-air misslies. Despite the name stealth fighter. It couldn't shoot down a bird if it wanted to.

 

[Porn_adicct]

read this link it discusses it at full length,
it was a plane, eyewitnesses, and all
http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/august2004/110804factsstraight.htm
another thing we did not invade mexico, france germany etc
mexico, attacked america do you remember the alamo and then also a few years later mexico came across border and attacked america, then we declared war
France gave america and the allies permission to use Normandy as landing for the invasion, , so don't say all this bullshit about us invading other countries, its ridiculous, and if you want to know more info on the Iraq war and why we are there and the things that led up to it, read Tom Clancy's book about General Zinni, and the long going effort to stop Saddam, but everyone is allowed their own opinion,

Actually, texas was part of mexico at the time

 

[McRocket]

First of all i would like to say that that video was bullshit. they were just taking a wack at Bush and the Govt, didnt you all notice hitlers speech in the first couple seconds. and theyre tryin to say that OUR OWN GOVT killed, no MURDERED thousands of ITS OWN CITIZENS just to launch us into a war. about the plane not bein found lemmi say sumthin: most airplanes are made of alluminum, and alluminum turns to liquid at high temperatures. the jet fuel burned melted the plane, and all passengers to nothingness, into a ball which punceh through the walls of the pentagon and melted on the othere side. whatever was left of the plane were small hardened pools of metal. the tapes bein taken and not released, they dont have to be given out. the freedom of information act says that all information in america can be seen by anyone, but it doesnt say that it has to(at least that what i remember). i love my country, and i support bush, not to say i like EVERYTHING hes done, but i support him. But i dont think that it should even be conceived that our govt would do this to us! thank you

That's interesting about the metal melting.

I am not directing this specifically at you - by any means. But what you said got me thinking.
Americans seem to me to be the most patriotic and loyal citizens of a country in the world. I wonder if the day will come soon that they (and all people of the world) will think of themselves as citizens of the world first and American's second. Because right now I think it is the other way around (and for most people for that matter).
This world (imo) will never be great for all until loyalty to one's country comes a distant second to one's race - i.e. the human race.
Just a thought.

And, in terms of supporting my government. I don't care who they elect. I support no one on anything until they prove to me just exactly why I should support them. Because they say I should or it's patriotic is not good enough.
To me, patriotism is another way of saying blind loyalty.

 

[D-rock]

There was a time before the Civil War in the US that people thought of themselves as citizens of the state where they lived first and of the country second. It seems like a silly thing today. Almost everybody sees himself as an American now. What you suggest is different I think. One of the main differences is cultural. While different people in different states weren't the same I know. It seems they where basically the same or close enough to be relatively indistinguishable; Even though I will admit there was some major issues between the states hence the Civil War. Now it’s different. Even today comparing us to other countries, even western countries, their is just too much of a difference to make a true world community work short of some far off Star-Trek future like utopia of mankind. The sad truth is that humanity won't even be able to decide what human rights really are or how things should be run. Everybody believes they what they do is right, even me.(ok there are some people out there that are scum and do what they do even if they think its evil) I'm sure a lot of terrorist think they are doing what is right for humanity. What happens when somebody wants to institute communism on the world because he thinks it’s in the best interest of the world? What do you think will happen if we even suggested other countries lift their gun control laws because we feel we have the right to bear arms, or even if we just wanted to let them have cut throat capitalism? Short of God coming down now and directly telling us what he wants, all we really do is ague with each other because we feel our way is superior to somebody else’s. Nobody wants to be told what to do by somebody else. That is why I think a world first community will never work. Its almost better to have sections that are allowed to live their own way IMO, I wish it wasn't that way, I wish for the end of hatred and greed, I wish we could just get along, but human nature gets in the way. Nothing can stop that reality. What it comes down to is this. Whether we believe in a higher power or not, most of us have a ideal or belief that we feel is right.(and again I will admit that includes me) That we think is a “universal truth of the universe”. Getting everybody to believe in a universal truth is impossible.

As far as patriotism goes I agree. Remember though, patriotism means different things to different people. To me it means not only upholding the beliefs and liberties that you think are a sacred to you and your country, but also standing up and defending the liberties of your fellow countrymen. Even if someday the situation is dire enough that it requires you to sacrifice your life so the people that come after you will always have the benefit of the beliefs and liberties you fought for. That is what patriotism is to me anyway. Are there people that use it to for blind loyalty? Yes, and I find it very incredibly sad.

 

[D-rock]

Sorry about the double post, but the post above was in response to Mcrocket's post. The browser just froze up when I tried to quote him, so I just posted it instead.

 

[AFA]

Interesting.

Are you sure, btw, that it was an f-117. They carry no gun or air-to-air misslies. Despite the name stealth fighter. It couldn't shoot down a bird if it wanted to.

I didn't know that about it. The shape was pretty unmistakable black against the white clouds. I can't explain why he would tail us if he couldn't shoot, we were over D.C.

 

[AFA]

That's interesting about the metal melting.

I am not directing this specifically at you - by any means. But what you said got me thinking.
Americans seem to me to be the most patriotic and loyal citizens of a country in the world. I wonder if the day will come soon that they (and all people of the world) will think of themselves as citizens of the world first and American's second. Because right now I think it is the other way around (and for most people for that matter).
This world (imo) will never be great for all until loyalty to one's country comes a distant second to one's race - i.e. the human race.
Just a thought.

And, in terms of supporting my government. I don't care who they elect. I support no one on anything until they prove to me just exactly why I should support them. Because they say I should or it's patriotic is not good enough.
To me, patriotism is another way of saying blind loyalty.

Insightful. It might take until Star Trek in the 23rd century to realize one planet. :crying: