Outlawing guns in the US ...

[Member2019]

Trust people, or don't attempt at all ...

Well, I couldn't see the point in regurgitating an entire history book when it pretty much falls on deaf ears anyway. There are about as many open minded people contributing to this "debate" as there are porn haters. So giving an entire history lesson in one post would just result in a response like "well, that's your opinion, but I'm still right."

Just because your latter point may be reality doesn't remove the reality of what you stated was very much over-simplified to the point that it was largely false in conclusion.

Trust people to think for themselves and reach the same appreciation for civics, or don't attempt at all.
People who don't understand why the study of civics of a nation is important are the ones that are truly self-destructive.

 

[pathfinder]

Prof Voluptuary, that's your opinion, but I'm still right.
Very well said and you're right in saying I over-simplified certain things. And thanks for the civics refresher.... really.

And on another note... what are your feelings on outlawing guns in the US?

 

[Facetious]

Get Over It . . . Weenies !!

Time for recess . . . professor . . ?



Gun Violence on the rise in city elevators arty:~:blowjob:~:helpme:~:nannerf2:~:nannerf1:

All The Best ~

 

[georges]

1) If only, if only, if only... if only you could put an ounce of the passion you have for bearing arms, D-Rock, into opposing the other "obviously wrong" things that are happening *right now*. Guns are not being outlawed, there is no slavery. But freedom of speech is limited in the media, and we are illegally invading and murdering people. If only that were as obviously wrong to you, and if only every other person in America that feels as strongly about the right to bear arms, could take just a portion of that passion and put it towards the other things that are obviously right and just, or against the other things that have always been wrong, that are happening as we speak.

2) In any case, it's pretty hilarious/nonsensical to hear someone from the place you're from - the place that invented the modern form of western media brainwashing, and the place where it works the best, talking about brainwashed Europeans. We have a lot of different beliefs in Europe in large numbers. The media has much less effect and is much broader across the spectrum, as free media surveys confirm. There is no rallying cry that 95% jump up and agree with, like "support the troops" or "trust the dusty documents". Or "live free or die". Or "home of the free land of the brave." Those archetypal universally agreed upon pieces of propaganda don't apply in Europe. There are some rallying cries, but only a portion believe in them.

3) That's why I always say America is so brainwashed. It's not a diss. It's not meant to be. It's just blatantly obvious. I mean, when 90 plus percent of a population believes in certain ideologies, which are repeated in every school on every tv channel and in every mainstream media outlet - then you know something very very very weeeeeird is going on. I wish all'o'yall good'ol'boys could see through it.

"The average age of the world's greatest civilizations has been 200 years. These nations have progressed through this sequence:

"From bondage to spiritual faith;
from spiritual faith to great courage;
from courage to liberty;
from liberty to abundance;
from abundance to selfishness;
from selfishness to apathy;
from apathy to dependence;
from dependency back again into bondage."

4) AGREED! But can't you see, that's what's already happening here? It's a new form of dependency, a new form of bondage, and we're surrounded by apathy. We're practically alreasy there! They're using our trillions for their oil wars so they can raise our own oil prices... I mean we are SO there. It'll only get worse, really. And guns have absolutely absolutely absolutely nothing to do with it. They're not gonna save us, they're not even a real issue right now, it should be a community decision not a nationwide one anyway. But there are SO many ways we're being tricked back into a modern form of bondage. And the only thing people seem to jump to their feet about is whether they can hold a gun... and what the dusty documents say. The dusty documents have been torn to tatters by our leaders and misused and manipulated by them a thousand times. THEY DON'T WORK. Not today.

Which is why I said in confusing times - no-one really knows wtf is going on - they cling to guns and dusty documents. Neither will save you from the bondage. Or help, even slightly. Your leaders, our leaders, know ways around both. They already have you getting ready to aim those guns at the wrong people (immigrants and the poor).

1) Oh the Irony, you have million of illegals, taking your jobs, acting like scum trash ghetto boyz being responsible of murders, manslaughter and yet you don't even mention it.

2) In every country, you have media manipulation and people who can't think by their own fucking selves. And even in Europe for example in France, the media said Sarkozy would solve everything yet he made the situation far worse than it was. Yet you have the nerve to blame that America is so brainwashed. A very big bunch of post 1985 born european people for the most are brainwashed, very illiterated, lacking culture, unpractical, irrealistic, dumb, lazy and idiotic (retarded should also be included in the list of these adjectives) and yet again you blame everything on America and Americans .

3) If you hate America so much, so why don't you leave it for ever and drop your American citizenship and go back to Iran???? You are a passionate hippie communist so you are brainwashed as well. You back up systematically Michael the Fat Pig Moore and Hillary who are both fugly socialist pigs (sorry but I need to say that). Don't even hope that the USA will have a "mother theresa" social system because it is everyone for his own head which is right and everyone is entitled to carry and own gun, want it or not.

4) Guns are for the citizen's protection against thieves, ghetto trash, rapists, drug dealers, pimps, bullies and all kind of shitbags who run across the streets.

 

[georges]

I should add to that, there are various degrees of brainwashing and "believing the hype", and we're all guilty of it to some degree or in some way or other. And I don't want anyone to confuse my statement that there is far more successful brainwashing in America than in Europe for any kind of general statement about all Americans or Europeans.

There are *lots* of Americans that don't believe all or some of the bullshit, and there are *lots* of Europeans that do. That needs to be said.

Please post proofs. You also have a lot brainwashing in Europe so stop thinking that in Europe, people are less brainwashed than in the USA. All the people who believed in the €, europe of 27 who will never be a leading union and the european constitution have been brainwashed to the core and lied.

 

[BlueBalls]

Every countries government uses spin and propaganda to get its people on its side so dont get all high and mighty when someon questions it, you make yourself look brainwashed if you stand by everything your country does, and i dont think even your leaders want you to do that, but what do i know im only a brainwashed european!!!

 

[Roughneck]

And also as much as I want to try to understand where you're coming from Fox and McRocket the rhetoric surrounding your statements makes you come off like angst filled teenagers in an intro to debate high school class.

You can even show proof in the form of "hundreds of incidents where guns are used in self defence" * and it still won't change anything....


cheers,
R.

*: And yes, I've had folks laugh at that link and merely dismiss it as "right wing propaganda".... never mind the fact that all them articles posted there are real life news events (under)reported by the media.

Oh wait! I forgot that the media is "biased" towards "Conservative, right wing groups" here in the US. All they do is spew propaganda - especially when conservative governments are in power!

My bad! Never mind....

 

[georges]

No idea, but I've probably been there.

It's horrible what happened to your neighbours, but if they'd had a handgun in the house, then there would either be (a) some dead burglars, or (b) the illegals may have taken the gun and killed them, or (c) they may have had guns of their own, and when she pulled out the handgun, they may have killed her and the family.

So if you add the gun to the picture, people are going to get killed, one way or another. The way it actually went down, nobody was killed but just severely traumatized. It's horrible but it's better than shootings.

I don't much care for Jehovah's Witnesses but they are right - people in this country worship their flag and their country - and it's scary. Patriotism is the virtue of the vicious. And so is the second amendment.

Peace
Fox

It is better to defend your property than to act and react like a victim. Like Dirty Harry said "Nothing wrong with shooting as long as the right people get shot". Who will mourn dead thieves/illegals? Scum/illegals who liked them.
There are other way to kill Burglars to chop their hands with an axe or a machette or kneecapping. Shooting a thieve is better than being hurt or raped or killed. None will mourn a low life. Jeovah's witnesses live in their confined crystall ball and holy rooms. They mainly escape the reality because it is too harsh for them to deal with it. Patriotism is a sign of being proud where you born and it shows your will to defend your land against any form of oppression and invasion. Claiming that anyone who is a patriot and a defender of the 2nd amendment is vicious, makes no sense and is utterly childish (if not stupid). What is vicious is mudslinging, insulting and criticizing the citizens and the country that have accepted you as a fellow citizen of their country no matter regarding your dislike of the country's constitution.

 

[Roughneck]

I tried to edit my older post but system wouldn't let me... so here goes:

And also as much as I want to try to understand where you're coming from Fox and McRocket the rhetoric surrounding your statements makes you come off like angst filled teenagers in an intro to debate high school class.

You can even show proof in the form of "hundreds of incidents where guns are used in self defence" * and it still won't change anything....

Somehow, someone will come up with the argument that "for the sake of others, you must learn to sacrifice the safety of yourself and/or your family"

... or...

"It doesn't happen this way in Canada/Norway/insert "x" country here; so why can't you freaks in the US understand and learn?".


THAT, pretty much; is what most of these threads amount to anyway. (For reference: do a quick search on the number of "US sucks" threads in existence on the boards versus practically "anything else sucks" topics). Contrast this empirical fact versus the reality in the world (yes, the US has issues. But so do many other nations around the world - nobody is virgin pure).

I rest my case.

I've long been critical of many aspects of US government policy - hell, I suffered war, death and devastation as a consequence of US policy. I was robbed of the best years of my life thanks to the insane policies of the Federal Government. I've never ever denied the fact that US administrations over the past few decades have become stridently more authoritarian and less libertarian - a fact that flies in the face of our founding documents. Many people like to jeer at the fact that while our Constitution (and it's makers) intended to establish liberty - there was still existent the issue of slavery/bigotry/imperialism... conveniently forgetting that their own history also had slavery/bigotry/imperialism in the past. Hardly ever is there any mention of the fact that - as imperfect as we were - we are the OLDEST form of "representative government" in the world.... especially amongst those who clamor for "Democracy" in this country today....

I find it hilarious how so many others point fingers at the US while letting themselves off the hook.



cheers,
R.

*: And yes, I've had folks laugh at that link and merely dismiss it as "right wing propaganda".... never mind the fact that all them articles posted there are real life news events (under)reported by the media.

Oh wait! I forgot that the media is "biased" towards "Conservative, right wing groups" here in the US. All they do is spew propaganda - especially when conservative governments are in power!

My bad! Never mind....

 

[georges]

Two had knives 4"-5" non folding. The other had a thing I've seen only on T.V., kinda like a small machette with a bend in the middle making the tip forward. Nasty looking thing, they all dropped there stuff when they met my neighbor & son with there AK-47's with stacked 30 round clips, I just had my AR-15 with stacked 40 round clips, I should have took my shotgun. We all talked about it later, a little to dark to be shooting rifles, but thats what was near me. Later Fox!!! :wave2:

A mossberg 590 a1 pump gun with slugs or a winchester 1300 defender with slugs is ideal for scum hunting. There is another way of killing scum, a bow/crossbow with special hunting arrows. The arrows have a special tip with 4 blades which is as good as a shot a 45 acp. I have seen some deers and wildcats killed with these arrows, imagine what it can do on burglars or thieves. Another possibility is the 500s&w revolver, a first shot, first kill weapon which leaves zero chances of survavibility to the scum even with an armored vest. With near 2,5 tons of muzzle energy and a velocity of 1500feet per seconds, no scum stands a chance.

 

[Roughneck]

Yep, you're right! Your bad! We both know it's easy to find stats to back up anything you want. And you putting your stamp of approval on something called "gun defense blog" is like me using something like "the anti-american blog" to back up my claims. It kind of damages credibility.

Dear **********,

All those "articles" on that website I linked are links to real world events, reported by real world news agencies.

Nobody is telling tall tales here. You can exercise your index finger some more and using your mouse click the actual links and read the actual stories.

I also don't think you under stand sarcasm. I'm disappointed - I thought you were of English extraction (of were at least brought up in England). You of all people ought to have a better understanding of "the Queen's language" than an American.

Stats can make you think or allow you to prove anything at all... I think it is much more important to think things through logically, and equally important to look at things from the human viewpoint and not the economic or military viewpoint.

In other words: "It's not the truth till I say so..."

Or....

"Truth is what I think it ought to be".

Same ol', same ol'. I expected no different from thee.
"All talk, no hat".

cheers,

PS: Do you think you are the high priest of "all that is human" to speak of the "human view point"? I link a website that posted stories (as reported by news media) where real life people defended themselves from becoming victims of crime - crime they did not invite and did not deserve.... and you're response is to disparage this by your "standards" of "human view point" ?

From this post of yours, it's patently obvious to me that by your standards of 'humanity', you have greater sympathy for criminals than (would be) victims....

Again, for the umpteenth time - if you want to refute what I've posted: show the evidence. Post links that show that the stories I've posted through that website are false. Provide "back up" to your assertions - .... else recognize that your "assertions" will remain "assertions" - not "arguments".

I am not holding my breath....

 

[georges]

1) Thanks for your typically kind and respectful words. America should not be blamed as a government or a population for everything, only for what it is directly responsible for, i.e., accountability. And blame is useless. I'm more about trying to fix and change things, than focus on past events.

You use passionate like it's a bad thing. I've never lived in Iran. I'm from England. I don't hate America just all the blood on our hands and the lies, I want America to be what it claims to be and more. You're more of an extremist than I am in human terms. I don't have racial or national prejudices and I don't think one country is better than another, so in those ways I think I'm a lot less of an extremist and more of a globalist - which encompassed everything and is therefore not extreme - than you or any right winger around. Some of my reform ideas are extreme, but my beliefs in every nation, race and opinion being equally valid should be universal. They should be the starting point for everyone. "I will have my favourite country to live in and my preferred system of government and my ideas but I will never fall into the fallacy that I or my beliefs or my country or my government are more important than anyone else's." If we all start with that as a basis, then 90% of the problems in the world will vanish. Can you honestly say - some of you - that it holds true for you?

2) Yep, you're right! Your bad! We both know it's easy to find stats to back up anything you want. And you putting your stamp of approval on something called "gun defense blog" is like me using something like "the anti-american blog" to back up my claims. It kind of damages credibility. Stats can make you think or allow you to prove anything at all... I think it is much more important to think things through logically, and equally important to look at things from the human viewpoint and not the economic or military viewpoint.

1) Would you have been not mudslinging America and Americans, I wouldn't have reacted that way. People elected that government, yes I know you would have prefered a mother theresa socialist government but these people voted for something else. You will not fix nor change anything in the USA with any of your views. I am not extremist, I am very disciplinarian, very pragmatic and very oriented on law abidence. I am tolerant with people who are tolerant and respectful with other people and rules/customs of their country/or the country where they migrated in. You are more a communist than a globalist because you want the state controlling people's inalienable rights and you think everything is due to you. Remember the communist witch hunts ordered by Mc Carty. Mc Carty was right to hate communism. Communism is extremism and it represents extreme far leftism. Communism made 20 millions deaths if not more. Communism caused a lot bad things like ruin, social misery, poor people, continuous conflicts and insanity. Never the problems will vanish because the man is a wolf for the man like the famous latin proverb says "homo mene lupus".

2) We live in a happy world and everything is pink, this is how you see the world, like a hippie not like a realistic down to earth person. Way to fail. Fact is that you don't take take things logically but emotionnally. In politics, there is no place for emotions, in politics, pragmastim, sense of realism, sense of duty, sense of analysis and forward thinking are some of the most important qualities to have. You unfortunately have none of these qualities that is why you will never be a politician.

 

[BlueBalls]

Georges the bile you spit is totally unjustified, cant you see both sides of the argument.

 

[ninetysixcavy]

I find it hilarious how so many others point fingers at the US while letting themselves off the hook.

It does seem like America is the only country not exempt from such harsh criticism. I mean, correct me if I'm wrong, but I rarely hear Americans bashing/criticizing/bithcing about other countries and their fucked up state of affairs - partuicularly on this board.

 

[titsrock]

It does seem like America is the only country not exempt from such harsh criticism. I mean, correct me if I'm wrong, but I rarely hear Americans bashing/criticizing/bithcing about other countries and their fucked up state of affairs - partuicularly on this board.

Oh, just go read the "Soccer" or "Universal Healthcare" threads...

 

[McRocket]

So....what you all are typing is that I am right and that most of you are more or less wrong?

Well, I think you all maybe being a little too hard on yourselves. But if it will make you feel better...I agree.

So to sum up, America's system of government is better then most countries. And worse then some.

Ohh...and that most (if not all of you) are white men - the group more then any other that is responsible for most of the problems in the world today (and especially yesterday). And the group that (outside of possible military service) knows less about hardship and adversity and discrimination then any other major 'group' on the planet; but consistently believes that they have 'had it tough'.



Now that THAT is settled. Back to the 2'nd Amendment debate.

What did we all decide about that one again?

We deferred to my point that most lovers of the 2'nd Amendment are either rather paranoid or rather short sighted or both.
But don't worry, most of you still have most of your lives ahead of you. And I am sure that at least some of you will see the light one day.

Well, it took awhile, but we all got there in the end.
And we did it together...now group hug.

:1orglaugh

 

[titsrock]

Re: And that was another Amendment ...

Prof-Thanks for taking the time to reply with a lengthy, well-thought response to my post from earlier. I would like to stipulate that my post answering your OP was a rambler. I went to areas beyond the 2nd Amendment. I'd like to cherry-pick some of the things you replied with here.

Before I do that...I think we should give ourselves a pat on the back for taking this thread seriously and doing a pretty good job of posting responses and not ad hominem attacks.

Prof-my basic belief is that the Constitution and Bill of Rights are like a grande ol' Colonial House that has not kept up with the size of our American Family and has not kept up with "modern life." We need some remodeling, NOT overhaul. I am not in favor of changing the 3 branches or the system of checks and balances...but some of the original text and Ammendments need to be "updated." I would classify myself as a free-flowing documentalist, I guess.

Regarding Possession versus Ownership of Guns:

There is the continuing argument/counter-argument on what local and state rights can override those of the federal.
In general, if it's ...

A) A right that the local/state and trying to deny, and ...
B) It is a Constitutional Law

The federal always wins.
In other words, it's a "Civil Right" ... literally, and I'm not being argumentative, just pointing out the obvious.

There are many local and state laws that do address this, required permits for possession outside of the home.

These permits are meant to control possession within an ownership society. I want to remove possession completely away from "Population Centers." No guns in the homes of New York or LA, for example. If New Yorkers want to own a gun, they need to house it offsite--in the mountains or wherever.

RE: Loopholes in ethics reform...hell Professor..it doesn't seem like ANY piece of legislation is created without any loopholes these days...Ethics Reform bills are as corruptible as a Farm Bill.

Militias are not about "planned" wars, they are about citizens protecting themselves, including during wars quite unplanned.
People will survive holocausts, they always do, and they have a right to protect themselves today for it.
Among the countless other rights to protect themselves, which differ none at all from the viewpoints of Franklin, Jefferson, etc...

We have a National Guard and we have a Military. A community Militia is irrelevant in today's world. There is only 1 Army that "might" think about an invasion against us--China--but moving Armies around takes time. Moving planes, firing missiles, moving Subs...this is smarter warfare today. Taking out our satellites and communications..smarter warfare. The way to neutralize America is to take out our Electricity Grids. Using Chemical weapons..more deadly. I think, economically speaking, it was possible in 1779 for Thomas Jefferson to *buy* the service of a group of farmers to act as his own private Army and he could've *taken over* America from within. The protection of militias for citizens within a country was to prevent an aristocratic-led revolution, in my opinion. That kind of risk is not relevant today.

You must be Einstein's secret love child if you can guess how "papa" would think today!!:lovecoupl:rofl:

 

[geraldhp42]

And I've learned that despite an increased vocabulary and capability for complicated sentence structure, discussions online are not much different than recess scuffles.

 

[ChefChiTown]

You're all wrong about the 2nd Amendment portion of this debate...

 

[McRocket]

Re: What the fuck does any of this have to do with the 2nd Amendment?

What the fuck does any of some of this shit that has been posted have anything to do with the 2nd Amendment?
What the fuck does any of some of this shit that has been posted have anything to do with the organization of the US government?
What the fuck does any of some of this shit that has been posted have anything to do with the Constitution and due process?

None!

True. And for that, I apologize to the moderators.

BTW, would you care to glance at a few threads were you went on and on about subjects completely unrelated to the thread's topic?

I will provide the links for you if you wish?

Now what about that group hug?