One Porn Star's Political Opinions...

[Elwood70]

So now we're trying to believe in the Greek Gods??? OMG so zeus and Thor and Neptune are real??????????

It's funny that you posted this today....

 

[Mariahxxx]

yo udo know that the big bang theory would prove proof of being able to create matter. and because matter exists that means there is proof that God made it? you're heads polluted full of propaganda with the rest.

and dogon people arent proof that God exists lol they are proof that THEY exist, nothing more.

I saw the videos. either one provides PROOF of God. matter can be created by a collider but the right has fought tooth n nail to block the funding because if it provides overwhelming proof of creation of matter then what will your baseless argument be?

 

[eric2136]

yo udo know that the big bang theory would prove proof of being able to create matter. and because matter exists that means there is proof that God made it? you're heads polluted full of propaganda with the rest.

and dogon people arent proof that God exists lol they are proof that THEY exist, nothing more.

I saw the videos. either one provides PROOF of God. matter can be created by a collider but the right has fought tooth n nail to block the funding because if it provides overwhelming proof of creation of matter then what will your baseless argument be?

Niether the theory of Color Glass Condensate (CGC), nor the Big Bang theory, in any way, contradict the basic law of Physics which is that matter cannot be created or destroyed. This Law of Conservation refers to the creation of new matter, not the description or identification of new phases of already existing matter. In other words, if you had a pie that represented all existing matter, the creation of new matter would be that whole pie plus a new additional slice.

Color Glass Condensate is a hugely speculative theoretical concept describing the creation of a new state or phase of matter from already existing matter. The existing matter being the atom which is allegedly split by the Large Hadron Collider atom smasher. The distinction being that if you take the newly discovered phase of matter released from the smashing of the atom (CGC), and then add the newly identified elements of matter with already recognized phases of matter also released from the smashing, all of these parts in total together do not equal a greater mass or number than the whole of the atom that was orginally split.

Likewise, the Big Bang theory does not provide a theory for the creation of new matter, but rather describes the transition of existing matter from one state to another thus creating the universe. To quote wikipedia:

''...The Big Bang theory is the prevailing cosmological model that describes the early development of the Universe. According to the theory, the Big Bang occurred approximately 13.798 ± 0.037 billion years ago, which is thus considered the age of the universe. After this time, the Universe was in an extremely hot and dense state and began expanding rapidly. After the initial expansion, the Universe cooled sufficiently to allow energy to be converted into various subatomic particles, including protons, neutrons, and electrons."

The Big Bang theory, in no way, even attempts to speculate where all matter orginates, but rather addresses the process by which existing matter was transformed from one state into what we now know as the Universe.

Proof 1
So again, since matter cannot be created or destroyed, If a Supreme Being did not create it, then what is the
origin of all matter ?

Proof 2
Your comments about the Dogon people of Mali don't make any sense, and thus I ask you again to explain the origins of their astronomical wisdom if they did not get it from Supernatural beings as they stated. And if you cannot provide a plausible alternative explanation, which you know you can't. then humble yourself and admit defeat.

 

[Rattrap]

1) Proof of God would be the existence of matter. The Big Bang theory is completely theoretical, but evenstill it, nor any other law of sceince or physics, doesn't propose to explain the origins of matter. It is a basic rule of physics that matter cannot be created or destroyed, so if a Supreme being didn't create it, then where did it come from.

2) The Dogon people of Mali are REAL PEOPLE. They are an ancient tribe that had astronomical knowledge of stars and planets that THEY COULD NOT SEE WITH THE NAKED EYE, and that was not discovered by modern western astronomers with telescopes untill centuries later. They say they got it from supernatural beings. If you disagree then where did a small ancient tribe living in the middle of the jungle get such information before even the invention of modern science.

Perhaps you should look at the video and consider the materials and then admit defeat.

Proof 1
So again, since matter cannot be created or destroyed, If a Supreme Being did not create it, then what is the
origin of all matter ?

Proof 2
Your comments about the Dogon people of Mali don't make any sense, and thus I ask you again to explain the origins of their astronomical wisdom if they did not get it from Supernatural beings as they stated. And if you cannot provide a plausible alternative explanation, which you know you can't. then humble yourself and admit defeat.

You should know that both the cosmological argument for the existence of God, as well as your comments on the people of Mali, contain the large inherent logical fallacy that proponents of these never seem to notice. Think Occam's Razor. A 'supreme being' is incredibly complex, and (as the Abrahamic texts like to describe it) by the same conservation law you've used over and again, impossible.

Here's the fallacy, simply laid out: because we can't explain (yet) where matter began, it must have been from some supreme being. That's you hearing hoofbeats in Texas and thinking zebras. It's the utter height of a false dilemma to say that either we can scientifically explain something now, or it's some incredibly unlikely being. This applies to both your 'proofs'.

 

[eric2136]

Your whole analysis is a cop out, you have said nothing new substantively regarding the proofs, because you don't know anything new...merely bantering pointless philosophic rhetoric in detraction. You have not fashioned an argument for or against the existance of a Supreme Being and tried to defend and research your position, you have said nothing in furtherance of the core issue that I can even comment on. Try to fashion some original position of you own regarding this topic and I will deal with you accordingly.

You should know that both the cosmological argument for the existence of God, as well as your comments on the people of Mali, contain the large inherent logical fallacy that proponents of these never seem to notice. Think Occam's Razor. A 'supreme being' is incredibly complex, and (as the Abrahamic texts like to describe it) by the same conservation law you've used over and again, impossible.

Here's the fallacy, simply laid out: because we can't explain (yet) where matter began, it must have been from some supreme being. That's you hearing hoofbeats in Texas and thinking zebras. It's the utter height of a false dilemma to say that either we can scientifically explain something now, or it's some incredibly unlikely being. This applies to both your 'proofs'.

 

[Rattrap]

Your whole analysis is a cop out, you have said nothing new substantively regarding the proofs, because you don't know anything new...merely bantering pointless philosophic rhetoric in detraction. You have not fashioned an argument for or against the existance of a Supreme Being and tried to defend and research your position, you have said nothing in furtherance of the core issue that I can even comment on. Try to fashion some original position of you own regarding this topic and I will deal with you accordingly.

Yes...logically dismantling your positions is nothing new. People have been doing it long before you and I were born. If you know this, why do you still cling to the fallacious logic?

I ask earnestly, but judging from your dismissal of what you don't like to hear, you're not interested in discussion, just talking. That's a shame.

 

[larss]

Suitably enough by the Barenaked Ladies.

 

[eric2136]

Your flawed logic is no match for the truth. But since you are so confidant and itching to talk, tell me then, what is your explanation for how a primitive African tribe had detailed complex astronomical knowledge of celestial bodies that can't be seen by the naked eye from earth centuries before modern science discovered them by telescope ?

Yes...logically dismantling your positions is nothing new. People have been doing it long before you and I were born. If you know this, why do you still cling to the fallacious logic?

I ask earnestly, but judging from your dismissal of what you don't like to hear, you're not interested in discussion, just talking. That's a shame.

 

[larss]

Your flawed logic is no match for the truth. But since you are so confidant and itching to talk, tell me then, what is your explanation for how a primitive African tribe had detailed complex astronomical knowledge of celestial bodies that can't be seen by the naked eye from earth centuries before modern science discovered them by telescope ?

It's obvious.
They are Space Aliens. :yoda:

 

[Rattrap]

Suitably enough by the Barenaked Ladies.

I will readily admit I only began watching that show when I heard the intro was done by the Barenaked Ladies.

Your flawed logic is no match for the truth. But since you are so confidant and itching to talk, tell me then, what is your explanation for how a primitive African tribe had detailed complex astronomical knowledge of celestial bodies that can't be seen by the naked eye from earth centuries before modern science discovered them by telescope ?

The burden of proof is on you, not me. You are the one claiming that because we don't have a ready explanation, the explanation is automatically 'God'. If you have any real logical bone in your body, you know this to be an erroneous conclusion. The only logical conclusion one can make in the absence of evidence or logical deduction is that we don't know. What we don't know ≠ God. This is where Occam's razor is most valuable.

Here's the problem with your 'truth': by definition of the supernatural, it lies outside what we can prove. Therefore the only arena it has is logic, and logic refutes your truth. The only thing you're left with is an evolutionary quirk of sentience that caused man to assign quick explanations to things he did not understand.

It's obvious.
They are Space Aliens. :yoda:

While you jest, this is still more likely than 'God'.

 

[eric2136]

Ehh I'm sorry but that's a bunch of bullshit..you don't respond to the question posed because you obviously don't have a clue of the answer, and then attempt to go on some pseudo-intellectual nonsene esoteric rant to cover up the fact that you don't know what the hell you are talking about. You don't know anything about the Dogon people or Sirius B. If you' haven't reviewed the video and can't answer the question honestly, then I'm certainly not going to debate you about a subject you know nothing about.

The burden of proof is on you, not me. You are the one claiming that because we don't have a ready explanation, the explanation is automatically 'God'. If you have any real logical bone in your body, you know this to be an erroneous conclusion. The only logical conclusion one can make in the absence of evidence or logical deduction is that we don't know. What we don't know ≠ God. This is where Occam's razor is most valuable.

Here's the problem with your 'truth': by definition of the supernatural, it lies outside what we can prove. Therefore the only arena it has is logic, and logic refutes your truth. The only thing you're left with is an evolutionary quirk of sentience that caused man to assign quick explanations to things he did not understand.

 

[Rattrap]

Ehh I'm sorry but that's a bunch of bullshit..you don't respond to the question posed because you obviously don't have a clue of the answer, and then attempt to go on some pseudo-intellectual nonsene esoteric rant to cover up the fact that you don't know what the hell you are talking about. You don't know anything about the Dogon people or Sirius B. If you' haven't reviewed the video and can't answer the question honestly, then I'm certainly not going to debate you about a subject you know nothing about.

...and that, ladies and gentlemen, is the tall-tell sign of defeat in denial.

Thanks for the discussion, anyway. It seems it's wasted on you, but hopefully other readers will find it...enlightening.

 

[Mariahxxx]

rattrap nailed it!

because we don't know yet doesn't mean by default "hey, it must be God" lol so are you saying we're done learning? is there nothing new left to discover?

the collider smashed 2 atoms together which in fact, produces matter now you'll say, "where did the atoms come from" and again because we don't yet know, the answer must be a supreme being.

the bible says he created us in his image right? so where did he come from? surely then he must have a mommy and daddy right?

I think that rattrap said this perfectly and Eric your replies are a perfect example of the absolute refusal to admit that logic and sense says that believing in the invisible man is fucking crazy when you really get factual about it. but what christian gets factual?

and if big bang is such a hoax, why has the right, namely evanglical and catholic groups lobbied so hard to keep it from being funded? Why do the religious groups spend millions in lobby money to oppress science grants and programs in schools? hhmmmm, I wonder???

 

[eric2136]

...and that, ladies and gentlemen, is the tall-tell sign of defeat in denial.

Thanks for the discussion, anyway. It seems it's wasted on you, but hopefully other readers will find it...enlightening.

I certainly would have welcomed a discussion, but instead all I got was a person to lazy to edify himself on a subject, but instead decided to attempt, in vain, to debate said subject, that he knows absolutely nothing about, in vague philosophic generalities. If you ever care to learn something about the issue Mariah and I were discussing, and enter the discussion in an intelligent informed manner, with your own orignal well thought out ideas supported with research and evidence, I will certainly be glad to listen, before I stomp you into submission yet again. LOL

And remember, you can gain no enlightenment from a state of willful ignorance...

 

[Mariahxxx]

and because we don't know how the dogon people know what they know,,,,we can also assume that they don't know just as columbus knew the world was round when every said it was flat...how did he KNOW? maybe at the time of their existence they had much better eye sight that humans do today? they didnt have reading lamps that caused eye strain and they didnt have a written language so the eye strain was minimal. maybe their diet was high in certain vitamins that allowed them better eye sight and they studied the stars which isnt uncommon in indigenous tribes. Paganism is the worship of nature, and why is that? because without science to explain things, they worship what appears to be a super natural explanation. it gives people comfort to say "must be a god" rather than to feel ignorant and not be able to explain things you see before you. the old question of "how did we get here" and the meaning of life haven't gone anywhere. but people take relief in not having to give a credible answer, they just say "my faith tells me..." meaning, my BLIND faith in something I cannot prove.


Eric, just because we can't yet explain something doesn't mean it is proof of God.

ask the church of Scientology their explanation. its VERY detailed and sure seems like it's an answer. but I'm sure you think they are batshit crazy like I do. My hair dresser is one, and Clearwater FL is the spiritual headquarters and it looks like a million clones walking around every day. I've ehard it all from them and they are fucking insane and I tell them so lol but we laugh about our differences and they just think I'm crazy for not believing in Zenu the 3 trillion year old creator lol

 

[Mariahxxx]

Eric he offered an answer of simple logic, "if we don't know it doesn't = God" you seem VERY defensive dude.

 

[larss]

Scientologists do make me laugh, following the teachings of a Science FICTION author who earned more through his cult than he ever did through his fiction. Still, it is no less believable than an omnipotent being.

 

[eric2136]

we don't know how the dogon people know what they know... maybe at the time of their existence they had much better eye sight that humans do today? they didnt have reading lamps that caused eye strain and they didnt have a written language so the eye strain was minimal. maybe their diet was high in certain vitamins that allowed them better eye sight and they studied the stars which isnt uncommon in indigenous tribes.


Eric, just because we can't yet explain something doesn't mean it is proof of God.

Ok Mariah well since you watched the documentary, then you know that Sirius B can barely be seen by some of the most powerful telescopes man can create, much less the naked eye by a small tribe in the jungle. Also it is not just the fact that they knew of the existance of such celestial bodies, they also had detailed knowledge about the orbital pattern and duration, as well as the density of Sirius B. Detailed information about a star that the western world couldn't see and didn't even know existed untill centuries after the Dogon were celebrating it in their cultural heritage.

Eric he offered an answer of simple logic, "if we don't know it doesn't = God" you seem VERY defensive dude.

He was full of shit, in philosophy, Occams' Razor logically suggests that the simplest explanation is usually correct. http://explorable.com/occams-razor The simplest, and the only answer available is that the Dogon people were telling the truth and they recieved their knowledge from a supernatural origin. There is no evidence otherwise, and no one has even simply attempted to provide any other plausible alternative.

You say I'm so defensive, yet you seem hell-bent to deny the explanation that the Dogon give only because it doesn't fit your pre-concieved notion of what can or can't exist.

Paganism is the worship of nature, and why is that? because without science to explain things, they worship what appears to be a super natural explanation. it gives people comfort to say "must be a god" rather than to feel ignorant and not be able to explain things you see before you. the old question of "how did we get here" and the meaning of life haven't gone anywhere. but people take relief in not having to give a credible answer, they just say "my faith tells me..." meaning, my BLIND faith in something I cannot prove.

I disagree with your definition of Paganism. Paganism doesn't mean the worshipping of nature. Paganism is a broad term typically pertaining to indigenous and historical polytheistic and non-theistic religious traditions - primarily those of cultures known to the classical world such as Greee and Rome. In a wider sense, it has been used as a label for any non-Abrahamic folk/ethnic religion.

The wicca and/or shamansitic traditions, both of which I adhere too, don't worship nature, but rather hold nature as sacred. And holding nature, in all it's forms, as sacred, has nothing to do with not having knowledge to explain things. In fact, a greater understanding of science tends to strengthen faith amongst those most enlightened.

And in terms of the two proofs I provided: 1) the orgins of matter, and 2) the origins of Dogon astronomical wisdom, how is you saying that you don't know the answer any more credible than me attributing an explanation to supernatural forces that you have a bias against, or just maybe don't respect or understand ?





[/QUOTE]

 

[Mariahxxx]

Eric. because they know it doesnt mean it is because told them so. How many people think they win the lottery because God did it for them? Or how many times did your car break down and you said "God why are you doing this to me?" when in reality all mechanical things break?

Because it happened and it cannot be explained, does NOT mean it is by God.

Ok they say God gave them this information right? Well God told 3 of the Republican candidates to run this past election. do you believe that??????? do you believe that God doesn't speak to very many people yet he chose Michelle Bachman to speak to AND give her some pretty shitty advice? same for Herman Cain and Rick Santorum? so you think that was God speaking to them? They have as much credibility as anyone else who claims God spoke to them so why not believe them????? what's the difference?

Albert Einstein was an athiest and he discovered the atom, which cannot be seen by ANY naked eye. so does that mean God told him to look???

Still waiting for proof. because an Indian tribe believes that God gave them this information means zip. they also believe that if they eat a Tiger's cock they can fuck longer and father more male children. they believe they can do a dance and make it rain and they believe that every little thing that happens to them is from God, because they know nothing else to explain otherwise.

you're only saying if there isn't an answer at this time then that's proof their's a god.

so tell me what kind of god would allow children to be raped and molested? what kind of God would kill 3000 people in his name with airplanes being flown into buildings and the fire being so brutally painful that they chose to jump from 100 stories to escape the horror of it?

you're a kool aid drinker if you think that anything unanswered is proof of God. that's just ignorant

 

[Mariahxxx]

pagans worship the sun and the moon our calendar is from paganism. surely you don't deny that??????????

and now I just realized why this argument is going nowhere...you believe in wicca and shamanism that says everything I need to know.

AGAIN CITING THINGS THAT ARE NOT YET EXPLAINED DOES NOT PROVE THAT THERE IS A GOD. IT ONLY PROVES THAT WE HAVENT FIGURED IT OUT.......YET. THATS WHY YOU RELIGIOUS LOONYS KEEP FIGHTING SCENTIFIC ADVANCEMENTS.

FACT!