Occupy Wall Street... mansions

[Togath]

Here is what pisses me off, I got into a house I should have never been allowed to buy. I barely made anything and was given a big mortgage with nothing down. I had a hell of a PMI payment of $250 a month extra on my house payment. PMI is principal mortgage insurance. It helps off set the bank incase I default on my mortgage. I have never missed a payment and never faulted on my mortgage, yet a ton of people did on thiers. Were they not paying a PMI? A ton of rich people have declared bankruptcy and all the banks needed bailed out by us the tax payer. Where the fuck did all this PMI money go too? Why wasnt it used to pay off the houses that were foreclosed? If they were why am I not seeing any of that return when they sell the house off at a lower price? Why am I not compensated for not only supplying my tax money but also paying extra charges to safe gaurd against this.
Now these CEO's of banks got thier 15 million a year bonus and what not, but do you think I had my PMI reduced or cancelled because I bailed them out and havent missed a single fucking payment? Hell no I didnt, so fuck these institutions and fuck these rich people who do absolutely nothing good for society. Oh dont tell me they donate to this or that program.They do that so they can avoid paying as much on taxes. Usually they donate money to an organization thier spouse or other family member work for. It is all hypocritical.
Just like the stimulous check that went out a few years ago. It was supposed to filter down, but it didnt. The rich bastards just held onto thier money and didnt add into the work force. Government realised it right away and have not done it again since.
Everybody on here suffers under the oppression the rich have over our govenrment. Your a fool to think otherwise. You think you might be ok, but are you truely? Do you do what you love? Do you really feel like the government has you and your families best interest in mind? They could give a rats ass, all these career politicians look at is "what kind of lobbist group will higher me when my term is up"?

 

[luvsemlarge]

Here is what pisses me off, I got into a house I should have never been allowed to buy. I barely made anything and was given a big mortgage with nothing down. I had a hell of a PMI payment of $250 a month extra on my house payment. PMI is principal mortgage insurance. It helps off set the bank incase I default on my mortgage. I have never missed a payment and never faulted on my mortgage, yet a ton of people did on thiers. Were they not paying a PMI? A ton of rich people have declared bankruptcy and all the banks needed bailed out by us the tax payer. Where the fuck did all this PMI money go too? Why wasnt it used to pay off the houses that were foreclosed? If they were why am I not seeing any of that return when they sell the house off at a lower price? Why am I not compensated for not only supplying my tax money but also paying extra charges to safe gaurd against this.
Now these CEO's of banks got thier 15 million a year bonus and what not, but do you think I had my PMI reduced or cancelled because I bailed them out and havent missed a single fucking payment? Hell no I didnt, so fuck these institutions and fuck these rich people who do absolutely nothing good for society. Oh dont tell me they donate to this or that program.They do that so they can avoid paying as much on taxes. Usually they donate money to an organization thier spouse or other family member work for. It is all hypocritical.
Just like the stimulous check that went out a few years ago. It was supposed to filter down, but it didnt. The rich bastards just held onto thier money and didnt add into the work force. Government realised it right away and have not done it again since.
Everybody on here suffers under the oppression the rich have over our govenrment. Your a fool to think otherwise. You think You Might be ok, but are you truely? Do you do what you love? Do you really feel like the government has you and your families best interest in mind? They could give a rats ass, all these career politicians look at is "what kind of lobbist group will higher me when my term is up"?

So rather than take responsibilty for purchasing something you knew you couldn't afford in the first place, you choose to blame those who offered money for loans so that you could buy and eventually own a home.

Typical Socialist cry babies... "Boo-Hoo... those mean lending companies put a gun to my head and made me buy a home."

Get FUCKING REAL!!!! You made your bed, now sleep in it.

 

[Jagger69]

Here is what pisses me off, I got into a house I should have never been allowed to buy. I barely made anything and was given a big mortgage with nothing down. I had a hell of a PMI payment of $250 a month extra on my house payment. PMI is principal mortgage insurance. It helps off set the bank incase I default on my mortgage. I have never missed a payment and never faulted on my mortgage, yet a ton of people did on thiers. Were they not paying a PMI? A ton of rich people have declared bankruptcy and all the banks needed bailed out by us the tax payer. Where the fuck did all this PMI money go too? Why wasnt it used to pay off the houses that were foreclosed? If they were why am I not seeing any of that return when they sell the house off at a lower price? Why am I not compensated for not only supplying my tax money but also paying extra charges to safe gaurd against this.
Now these CEO's of banks got thier 15 million a year bonus and what not, but do you think I had my PMI reduced or cancelled because I bailed them out and havent missed a single fucking payment? Hell no I didnt, so fuck these institutions and fuck these rich people who do absolutely nothing good for society. Oh dont tell me they donate to this or that program.They do that so they can avoid paying as much on taxes. Usually they donate money to an organization thier spouse or other family member work for. It is all hypocritical.
Just like the stimulous check that went out a few years ago. It was supposed to filter down, but it didnt. The rich bastards just held onto thier money and didnt add into the work force. Government realised it right away and have not done it again since.
Everybody on here suffers under the oppression the rich have over our govenrment. Your a fool to think otherwise. You think you might be ok, but are you truely? Do you do what you love? Do you really feel like the government has you and your families best interest in mind? They could give a rats ass, all these career politicians look at is "what kind of lobbist group will higher me when my term is up"?

PMI is required when the mortgagor (the borrower) puts up a down payment of less than 20%. If the mortgagor puts down 20% or more, PMI is waived. It's been my historical watermark for determining whether I could afford to buy a house. If I didn't have the 20% to waive the PMI, I figured I couldn't afford the house. It's a formula that has never failed me (yet!).

That being said, the greed displayed by the banks through the encouragement of marginally-qualifying individuals or families to step up and purchase a home under very dubious financial circumstances was reckless and predatory in nature from my perspective. Lots of people in the banking industry got very wealthy during those boom real-estate times. Then, when everything crashed in September, 2008, those same bankers stuck their hands out and asked the government to keep them afloat. The taxpayers weren't really given a choice in the matter....the bailouts were jammed down our throats. That being the case, it is easy to understand the anger that a large segment of Americans feel against the establishment right now....from the right wing as well as the left. Government and Wall Street are both culpable for this mess....Wall Street for being so out-of-control with greed to deliberately ignore the warning signs as they drove us over the cliff and Government for looking the other way and allowing it to happen in the first place and then giving the banks billions of bail-out dollars in an attempt to cover it all up and make it go away.

This triggered a series of ensuing events that led us to where we find ourselves today. Obama gets (and deserves) a lot of blame for the current situation. However, if you recall, the economy was not even on his radar screen as an issue until 2 months before the election in 2008. His whole platform was geared in other directions and then, suddenly, right after the election, he had to switch gears and try to find some sort of answer to the economic crisis while getting absolutely no cooperation or compromise from the republicans. Gridlock ensued, lots of finger pointing went on and we're now at the boiling point. It's a volatile and historically predictable situation. Justified or not, experience tells us that anytime the masses suffer well beyond their normal capacity, the rich and the government bear the brunt of their rage....usually with dire consequences for the latter.

 

[Will E Worm]

Ummm...yeah doesn't that religion you talk about so much have things in it about taking care of the poor and doing it because you should love your fellow people. There is that whole stuff about the love of money being the root of evil too.

I don't know what your definition of "hoarding" is, but "keeping their money and not giving it away" seems like a pretty good description of it. :1orglaugh

Matthew 26:11 (KJV)
11: For ye have the poor always with you; but me ye have not always.

You ahve the right to save your money. It is not "hoarding."

1 Timothy 5:8 (KJV)
8: But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel.

I thought the government gave them taxpayer funded bailouts as a reward for their greed and incompetence i.e. fucking over the American public. Meanwhile people lost their homes, jobs, ect. and were basically told "too bad, so sad".

I was never for any bailout.

Occupy Wall Street > Tea Party

No. They are fleabaggers.

 

[emceeemcee]

Fleabaggers.

They are fleabaggers.

hive mind is now operational

 

[Will E Worm]

hive mind is now operational

So, we are a "hive" mind even though others have said "Teabaggers?"

:kettle:

 

[Jagger69]

Matthew 26:11 (KJV)
11: For ye have the poor always with you; but me ye have not always.

1 Timothy 5:8 (KJV)
8: But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel.

Ahhh yes, the old "scripture fallback" tactic. OK, I'll see your Matthew 26:11 and Timothy 5:8 and I'll raise you a Luke 18:18-24:

Luke 18:18-24

[18] A certain ruler asked him, "Good teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?"

[19] "Why do you call me good?" Jesus answered. "No one is good -- except God alone.

[20] You know the commandments: 'Do not commit adultery, do not murder, do not steal, do not give false testimony, honor your father and mother.'"

[21] "All these I have kept since I was a boy," he said.

[22] When Jesus heard this, he said to him, "You still lack one thing. Sell everything you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me."

[23] When he heard this, he became very sad, because he was a man of great wealth.

[24] Jesus looked at him and said, "How hard it is for the rich to enter the kingdom of God! [25] Indeed, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God."

Not preaching here by any means....just illustrating that one can manipulate scripture to justify almost any position or viewpoint.

 

[emceeemcee]

So, we are a "hive" mind even though others have said "Teabaggers?"

:kettle:

cry moar

 

[Will E Worm]

Ahhh yes, the old "scripture fallback" tactic. OK, I'll see your Matthew 26:11 and Timothy 5:8 and I'll raise you a Luke 18:18-24:
Not preaching here by any means....just illustrating that one can manipulate scripture to justify almost any position or viewpoint.

I was asked a question about scripture. So, this is not a "fallback" tactic.

Twist and manipulate scripture, Like you just did?

cry moar

Lie more. :stir:

 

[Jagger69]

Twist and manipulate scripture, Like you just did?

Yes. If you re-read my post, you'll realize that that's exactly my point, Willie. On second thought....maybe you won't, but everyone else here will.

 

[Will E Worm]

Yes. If you re-read my post, you'll realize that that's exactly my point, Willie. On second thought....maybe you won't, but everyone else here will.

You did, I didn't.

 

[PirateKing]

I was never for any bailout.

:clap: Congrats.

Yet you seem to imply that people have a gripe with the financial elite for no particular reason other the fact that they're wealthy. They are hoarding money, the money that we gave them so that they can maintain their status while continuing to manipulate the system and continue to make further profit at everyone else's expense. But whatever, maybe you're right and they're all just haters.

 

[BoboBrowne]

I'm not interested in getting into a political pissing contest with strangers on the internet(s), but I am absolutely baffled that anyone can be "right-wing" and openly post on a porn message board. The contradiction and hypocrisy is astounding.

Did I just see scripture quoted on here?!? JESUS CHRIST!

 

[Trident1]

Let's go up to their mansions and whine because deep inside we're jealous.

 

[cindy CD/TV]

I remember learning about another case in the past where the downtrodden masses rebelled against the upper class who they blamed for everything.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Storming_of_the_Bastille

It didn't work out too well for most.

Seriously...read the second paragraph of that Wikipedia page. Substitute Obama for Louis XVI, U.S. for France, Iraq war for American Revolution, Afganistan for Britain, and Republicans for Second Estate.

The similarity is unnerving.

Yep. All we're missing is the guillotine.

It's sad. Ignorant people want to rip off the 'evil' rich people for "hoarding" money. And all because they happen to be rich. Class jealously begets class warfare. If the liberal government wasn't trying to tax "rich" people into oblivion and redistribute it to the poor and minorities (which, in effect, BUYS their votes come election time), companies would be more willing and ABLE to start hiring. Everyone is so focused on the filthy rich (the Warren Buffets and Donald Trumps of the world), but wealth redistribution largely targets the upper levels of the bourgeois class -- i.e. small business owners. Fact. These are the ones who employ the VAST majority of Americans. Fact. THESE are the people sitting on the fence waiting for the other tax shoe to drop. They don't want to start hiring lots of people because they don't know when the libs in Congress are going to ram through a tax hike (or repeal the Bush tax cuts), or pass the next piece of restrictive legislation that will only add to their expenses: e.g., new 'green' energy/environmental standards. These could affect a business directly as an additional operating expense. Or they could have an indirect effect. For example, if Congress approves an unfunded mandate that states must pay for and implement, state governments often pass the costs of those mandates onto taxpayers. Moreoever, many municipalities have dual tax rates (residential and commerical properties paying property taxes at different rates) with the commericial properties often paying a larger proportional share. How much more can we suck from these people? If it costs too much to operate a business, an owner may lay off more workers or, worse, go bankrupt. Taxing the "rich" is the equivalent of a cancerous tumor spreading throughout a body, unwittingly dooming itself by consuming it's host. BTW, the richest 5% pay 59% of all federal income tax. Most of the Occupy punks pay nothing, yet they're protesting. WTF?

 

[Rey C.]

So rather than take responsibilty for purchasing something you knew you couldn't afford in the first place, you choose to blame those who offered money for loans so that you could buy and eventually own a home.

Typical Socialist cry babies... "Boo-Hoo... those mean lending companies put a gun to my head and made me buy a home."

Get FUCKING REAL!!!! You made your bed, now sleep in it.

I think he is sleeping in the bed that he made. According to his post, he's never missed a payment.

IMO, he is asking a very legitimate question. And I'm sure there are a variety of answers... most of them connected to fraud, abuse and/or incompetence. If there was private mortgage insurance (PMI) in place, then the banks' losses would be lessened. PMI is based on loan to value, as Jagger said. So if a "funny" appraisal showed the property to be worth more than it actually was, it's possible that there was no PMI in place... although it's typically done based on sales price or appraised value, whichever is lower.

Borrowers most certainly need to be held responsible for mortgages they took out. But in the case of subprime lending, where the mortgage banks and brokers often had the loans sold even before they closed, there was too much focus on generating fees and income. That's why anyone who could fog up a mirror was offered a mortgage. And if they didn't really qualify, some slick work by a "credit specialist" could solve their problems in short order... for an additional fee, of course.

According to a Fed study from a little over a year ago, over 50% of the people placed in subprime mortgages actually qualified for conforming prime mortgages. So why would a banker place them in a subprime if they qualified for a conforming prime? Because the fees were dramatically higher. The rule of thumbs is that 8 discount points equal 1 percentage point on a mortgage. In addition to other fees, subprimes tended to be priced with rather exorbitant discount points either built in, or tacked on to make the rate appear to be more reasonable. Especially with people who are not well versed in finance, it's not that hard to slide in a discount point here or there in a busy market. And if everyone is doing it, borrowers generally are none the wiser. So what is 2 extra discount points worth on a typical $250K loan? $5K... for doing nothing at all. Say you do that twice a month. So in addition to your regular origination and fee income, would you be willing to slide a few people into the subprime category for an extra $10 grand a month? A conscience is a funny and fluid thing once enough money comes into play.

Just from reading this thread, I can tell that many don't understand why companies hire or don't hire people (tax rates at the margin have little to do with it). Hell, some people don't even know the difference between withholding and actual taxes paid. So how hard is it to fleece the average borrower? Not all that hard... especially if the banker is well dressed and has a kind face - or so I hear.

But without taking sides, Togath's question about PMI is valid and points to one of the reasons why people are as pissed off as they are at banks and financial institutions. Throw in the bailouts, the robo-signing, the bonuses for executives (when the bank itself looks like a fat man tap dancing on thin ice), the unwillingness to lend to small/medium businesses who ARE good credit risks, etc., etc., etc. - it's not that hard to see why even ex-bankers don't like bankers.

 

[cindy CD/TV]

^^^ There was a lot of pressure over the last couple of decades by liberals, Democrats in Congress and lawsuits by community activist organizations (like ACORN, for example) vs. banks/mortgage firms to relax their "discriminatory" lending practices. The collective credo that they used to beat these companies over the head was: Every American has the right and opportunity to own their own home. Sounded like a great idea at the time. Until people started getting what they wanted. With the lending bar lowered, people whom lenders wouldn't have touched with a 10-foot pool were suddently qualifying for mortgages -- big mortgages -- that they couldn't afford. But mortgage companies, again under intense politicial and legal pressure, had told their offices nationwide to simply "make it work" when it came to borderline applicants. Hence, the subprimes were born. And the clock to disaster began ticking. Worse, the resulting housing boom from the flood of mortgages was the equivalent of chumming the waters for investors and financial houses to hitch their securities to. When the bottom fell out (and when those subprimes began to adjust), banks were left holding the bag and people were left without homes.

BTW, say what you want about GW Bush, but his administration saw this coming in 2003 and tried to tighten lending rules. The Dems blocked it. Yet Bush gets ALL the blame for the financial crisis/recession, which started when the housing bubble burst. The housing market implosion is the ground zero, the first domino, of all the economic mess that's followed -- and continues to dog the U.S. now.

 

[Rey C.]

After we sold our mortgage company, I had to serve a "time out" (because of a non-compete agreement) before I could re-enter the industry. The company I went to work for engaged in redlining. I can say that now, but I would not have said it then. We did not offer loans in certain areas of Maryland and almost none of Washington, D.C. We did this by area, not by the individual. Income and credit scores didn't matter. By chance, these were largely minority areas. Yes... "by chance". So I have no issue with Bush, Frank, or anyone else, actually (and finally) making sure that the nation's laws were enforced.

Subprimes have actually been around for a very long time. Revisionist storytelling (and right wing radio?) tell us that they just popped up when Barney Frank began making threatening phone calls to mortgage bankers. But most manufactured housing was financed by what we called subprimes when I got started in the 80's. We didn't do them. But Countrywide made a fortune in that specialty/niche market. Bankers who did them were looked down upon as "dirty fingernails people". But I assume they were around well before then, since trailers and double-wides were around before the 80's, and I doubt they were bought with all cash. But during the Clinton administration, we began seeing subprimes spread into the "regular" housing market. But until greed set in, if you qualified for a conforming prime, you got a conforming prime. Only once people started imitating Attila the Hun (raping and pillaging) were people (50% +/-) re-categorized so they could be more easily taken advantage of. Come on. Who in their right mind is going to try to defend that practice?!

FNMA and FHLMC eventually became a problem because they enabled many of the abuses in the MBS market, and even helped cover them up. But George W. Bush was also a problem, as he wanted to take credit for the rising home ownership rates. Alan Greenspan was a problem, as he spoke of "irrational exuberance" out of one side of his mouth and was screaming "full speed ahead" out of the other.

Hmm. Well, here is George W. Bush... in his own words.



I'm more in the manufacturing sector now - though I realize that if I'd stayed in banking for another 10-15 years, I'd be filthy, fucking rich right now (though my soul would be a putrid lump). But I still dabble in real estate and securities. Just as anyone else can, I can buy and sell mortgages. It's not a practice reserved for investment banks or FNMA. And no matter what spin or revisionist take the right (or the left) wants to put on this, there is more than enough blame to go around. But just as we're seeing that politicians cannot force banks to lend to deserving businesses now, they were not able to force banks to lend to anyone (deserving or undeserving) a decade ago - as long as the laws were followed. So that is a myth. The truth is, investment banks provided TREMENDOUS demand for mortgages, to fill up pools of mortgage backed securities. Not all of these securities were conforming, so FNMA and FHLMC standards were not ALWAYS followed - they had nothing to do with FNMA and/or FHLMC. It's not rocket science. Banks (investment, commercial, mortgage) lend to make money. Mortgage banks and mortgage brokers did anything and everything (legal and illegal) to meet that demand and make money. Pretty simple. And unless they're breaking the law, the government isn't really in a position to force them to do anything. Rush, Glenn, Faux News and the radio talking heads really need to do a better job of telling the truth on this one. Maybe it would help if they had a better (basic) understanding of the banking industry in general, and the mortgage banking sector specifically.

Show me a successful lawsuit filed by ACORN or any other entity against a bank that denied credit to a prospective borrower whose debt to income ratio was above 28/36 and whose credit score was below established minimums. I don't care if the person was a half-Black, half Jewish, gay, disabled person. No bank HAD to make loans to people who did not meet minimum guidelines. And in cases where they did, they did it for the same reason they do most anything else: to make money.

 

[Facetious]

Re: Occupy Wall Street... mansions

I wonder if any of these louts ever made it over to the gates of jeffery immelt's place... or soros', dick fuld's (of lehman bros fame) hanky panky paulson's or any close associate of gold-sachs to name a few ... I kinda doubt it.

 

[1ManRevolution]

Let's go up to their mansions and whine because deep inside we're jealous.

So now that tea party is FOR bailouts? Funny, I recall a few years ago how evil bailouts were and we should just let them fail. Now that liberals are talking the very same thing...It's off a suddenly a different tune for the baggies.