North Korea/South Korea

[Facetious]

It cracks me up when you google earth North Korea (satellite) . . there are no city centers anywhere! the whole blasted thing is simply ''North Korea'' and that's that. :1orglaugh

Oh, and the nighttime satellite images of Norko . . completely pitch f-en black from it's Northern reaches all of the way down to it's southern border.

Kooks!

 

[vodkazvictim]

Better than doing nothing and sitting back before something worst comes their way. At least it shows they won't mess around with this little NK midget instigator. Since when should a country sit back and say if this happens again you'll be sorry. Worst than a woman who stays with an abusive husband and keep saying she will leave if it gets worse or if it continues.

I do believe North America should stay out of it for the most part. Unless of course the missiles should hit one of our bases over there. Then we can step in and take care of this North Korean gargoyle.

Whimsy old chap I think we may have a misunderstanding here; I'm not against punishing NK, I just think that destroying a city will do nothing to punish the dictator 'cos he doesn't give a shit about his people and by punishing the people we will unite them against us.

I propose using strikes against what he does care about; his military capability. NK is a backwards little excuse for a nation, essentially it's Iraq in GW1. It will not be a real challenge to defeat the military and if we don't target the civilians, get out of there and leave the SK in control once we're done with the military then there will be no insurgency.
We'd win, the NK & SK people would win by their country finally being reunited.

If a war begins on the Korean peninsula, America doesn't stand a chance. Maybe Obama needs to speed up the return of troops from Iraq and Afghanistan, so that they can be redeployed in Korea...for their seventh tour. Looks like, if this escalates, the draft might be...you know...

I'm afraid you're very wrong there. The SK could win this one on their own.
Why? The most important aspect of an army is morale; the average NK soldier (remember; INFANTRY ARE THE ONLY UNIT THAT CAN WIN WARS ALONE) has NO interest in defending the status quo in NK. NK maintains an army as large as china's but has a FRACTION of the population. Look at NK & compare it to SK; why would any NK fight AGAINST reunion of the two countries under SK control? They could finally reunite their country, the NK would get the benefit of living in a democratic society where they have rights and all the luxuries of modern civilisation, the SK would gain an influx of unskliled low-wage workers to do all those jobs you need such people for and they wouldn't be regarded as immigrants. Lets not forget that Germany has become a European country to emulate since reunification; it's a good idea.
Under KJI NKs science has suffered; they don't have the tech advantage in combat vehicles. Not even close. NK military has a budget of a mere $6 billion.
Have a look at their MBT: It's pathetic.

So far I've only shown you the disadvantages of NK military. The advantages of SK military are GREAT: They operate F15s which have a formidable combat reputation. They also operate K1 & K2, modern, effective MBTs.
SK Is famed for technology; when it comes to military vehicles, tech can give a hell of an edge if you've made it reliable.

Hmm it would be unwise for the US and China to meddle in this, they have bigger worries (each other).
Hower, victory would either side would mean big changes in the regional balance of power. When North Korea wins, Japan will be in direct danger and either way ask for instant US help (which will drag the US in). Alternatively, when South Korea wins, the Chinese will have a country which is suitable for containing China directly at their borders.

Besides that, I don't think it'll turn out to be big. NK and SK have so much to lose, they are almost equally powerful. They will only fight with assistance from a bigger force I think.
This is just some muscle felxing before the new leadership takes over in NK. Kim will have to make a nice introduction for his son right?

Interesting point.

Don't worry, the US is spending just as much on defense as the rest of the world combined. (A few years ago it was just as much as the next 20 countries or so, but because of all the little insignificant states and the lower end of the spectrum it now it literally 50% of the world share.)
Oh... and rising. And you have the stopping power of water on your side, lot's of water.

This is the money phallacy; just because you spend so much it does NOT mean that yu get value for money. There are a whole load of scams in us military procurement.
However the american military is at least motivated and, frankly, I can't see anyone NOT joining i nan attack on NK if deemed necessary by UN. So other militaries would likely join the fight.
NK Military on the other hand have NO reason to fight to preserve the status quo in their country.

Move along. Nothing here. We have no money and troops to do anything. We have no financial interest (i.e. OIL LUST) in this part of the world.

I would recommend to our South Korea friends to try diplomacy. It's cheaper.

^^A more realistic view here...

The real losers of this attack is North Korea's starving public. The food situation is bad this year and this ensured that the last stream of food aid will be cut off. China provides some, but not enough to prevent a famine.

Yep. Why they don't revolt/jump ship I'll never understand.

 

[busenbust]

Saber-rattling -- that is all.

 

[D-rock]

I'm afraid you're very wrong there. The SK could win this one on their own.
Why? The most important aspect of an army is morale; the average NK soldier (remember; INFANTRY ARE THE ONLY UNIT THAT CAN WIN WARS ALONE) has NO interest in defending the status quo in NK. NK maintains an army as large as china's but has a FRACTION of the population. Look at NK & compare it to SK; why would any NK fight AGAINST reunion of the two countries under SK control? They could finally reunite their country, the NK would get the benefit of living in a democratic society where they have rights and all the luxuries of modern civilisation, the SK would gain an influx of unskliled low-wage workers to do all those jobs you need such people for and they wouldn't be regarded as immigrants. Lets not forget that Germany has become a European country to emulate since reunification; it's a good idea.

North Korea's soldiers are the best treated people in the North, probably to keep up their effectiveness and to go the extra length to ensure loyalty, and sometimes they are the only ones that get fed. What's more you're talking about a country that's isolated, withholds and highly manipulates information, is tyrannical, has a brutal and power hungry leadership that doesn't want to give up power, exploits their own people's desperation, and uses systemic often harsh levels of conditioning and brainwashing at all levels of their country and culture. The level and success at which they do it would put even what the old Soviets did to the Eastern Block countries to shame. There is a reason North Korea is the worst place on the planet. You are trying to trying to apply rational thought processes to people that don't think rationally. You also can't apply ethics or moral ways of thinking to people that are as nihilistic as they are or who have warped those things so much to be unrecognizable and are a mockery of what decent people think.

I think if you actually knew about the populace of North Korea I think you would probably be shocked by the alien mindset a good number of them have.

 

[vodkazvictim]

North Korea's soldiers are the best treated people in the North, probably to keep up their effectiveness and to go the extra length to ensure loyalty, and sometimes they are the only ones that get fed. What's more you're talking about a country that's isolated, withholds and highly manipulates information, is tyrannical, has a brutal and power hungry leadership that doesn't want to give up power, exploits their own people's desperation, and uses systemic often harsh levels of conditioning and brainwashing at all levels of their country and culture. The level and success at which they do it would put even what the old Soviets did to the Eastern Block countries to shame. There is a reason North Korea is the worst place on the planet. You are trying to trying to apply rational thought processes to people that don't think rationally. You also can't apply ethics or moral ways of thinking to people that are as nihilistic as they are or who have warped those things so much to be unrecognizable and are a mockery of what decent people think.

I think if you actually knew about the populace of North Korea I think you would probably be shocked by the alien mindset a good number of them have.

Didn't work for the Soviet Union.
While I agree that I am trying to apply rationality to a country that doesn't think rationally, I'd be interested to see exactly WHY you think you're so much better informed on NK than I am. A source for your statements perhaps? Have you been to NK?
Then how are the families of the Soldiers treated? How do you know this?
Something else to think about: These guys can't develop decent military gear for themselves and the Russkis have already shown (Iraq) that they only sell monkey models to loony states. That means that very early in any conflict anyone attacking NK would have air supremacy and then all hell can break loose with either strategic bombing, high level tactical bombing (UAVs could really shine in this scenario) or low level tactical bombing. Lets not forget how exceedingly nasty A10 is.

 

[Supafly]

Hey Kim Jong-il - Look who is coming around:



Better shut the fuck up.

 

[Bloodshot Scott]

Hey Kim Jong-il - Look who is coming around:



Better shut the fuck up.

Doesn't it just make you Europeans feel all cozy inside to know there actually someone in the world who will stand by their allies and stand up for reason?

 

[Zolf J. Kimbly]

Zolf,

If we shipped you and your family to the North, I believe that would be a step in the right direction.

Regards,

Bloodshot :hatsoff:

 

[RogueAlan]

Didn't work for the Soviet Union.
While I agree that I am trying to apply rationality to a country that doesn't think rationally, I'd be interested to see exactly WHY you think you're so much better informed on NK than I am. A source for your statements perhaps? Have you been to NK?
Then how are the families of the Soldiers treated? How do you know this?
Something else to think about: These guys can't develop decent military gear for themselves and the Russkis have already shown (Iraq) that they only sell monkey models to loony states. That means that very early in any conflict anyone attacking NK would have air supremacy and then all hell can break loose with either strategic bombing, high level tactical bombing (UAVs could really shine in this scenario) or low level tactical bombing. Lets not forget how exceedingly nasty A10 is.

No arguements, if NK chooses to push south, they'll be using last decades hardware... BUT if China or Russia supply even third generation hardware as a 'sestabilizing influence' the capital is a stone's throw from the DMZ. And the civilians don't have even fourth generation armaments (oh to have more countries... and yes that includes the US, like Isreal) do they?

Sadly, a twisted little man apparently bent on extending some new monarchy on the backs of his people will, i suspect, without a second thought risk killing thousands of innocents to demonstrate a point. And I am skeptical as to whether we will step in.

If you are China it's a perfect test bed before jumping across the strait to 'retake Taiwan.'

And maybe most frightening, unlike the rock throwing terrorists who occassionaly manage to fill a diaper with PETN (right order of letters?) NK has nukes.

Suffice to say no east asian travel plans for my family. Frankly, I am staying home and checking the ammunition and food stores! But I hope the country where tactial role playing video games are a national sport can outmaneuver the little squirrel in the dark glasses!

 

[Supafly]

Doesn't it just make you Europeans feel all cozy inside to know there actually someone in the world who will stand by their allies and stand up for reason?

Yes it does

Please stop putting us all in one box.

I am one of the guys who believe that Armies are actually of some use.

We can't settle everything by sanctioning other countries by trade embargos.

When that fails, you need to send the troops.

 

[~~whimsy~~]

Well I sure am glad I didn't take that teaching job in South Korea.

Why don't you make a thread about it just to make sure? :elaugh:

 

[vodkazvictim]

No arguements, if NK chooses to push south, they'll be using last decades hardware... BUT if China or Russia supply even third generation hardware as a 'sestabilizing influence' the capital is a stone's throw from the DMZ. And the civilians don't have even fourth generation armaments (oh to have more countries... and yes that includes the US, like Isreal) do they?

Sadly, a twisted little man apparently bent on extending some new monarchy on the backs of his people will, i suspect, without a second thought risk killing thousands of innocents to demonstrate a point. And I am skeptical as to whether we will step in.

If you are China it's a perfect test bed before jumping across the strait to 'retake Taiwan.'

And maybe most frightening, unlike the rock throwing terrorists who occassionaly manage to fill a diaper with PETN (right order of letters?) NK has nukes.

Suffice to say no east asian travel plans for my family. Frankly, I am staying home and checking the ammunition and food stores! But I hope the country where tactial role playing video games are a national sport can outmaneuver the little squirrel in the dark glasses!

^^Agreement level: 100%
Maybe mines could help stop NK reaching the capital.

 

[Legzman]

what? This could get good...

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[CptHa]

If the North decides to try anything, they'll get creamed. The NKAF doesn't have the resources to provide top cover for their army. They are still flying MiG 19s and most of their pilots get around 20-30 hours at best a year. US pilots get that same amount in about 3 weeks. You need to look no further than the Gulf War to see what happens when one side has complete air superiority.

 

[vodkazvictim]

If the North decides to try anything, they'll get creamed. The NKAF doesn't have the resources to provide top cover for their army. They are still flying MiG 19s and most of their pilots get around 20-30 hours at best a year. US pilots get that same amount in about 3 weeks. You need to look no further than the Gulf War to see what happens when one side has complete air superiority.

They do have some MiG29 variants, but I bet they've got fuck all flight time in them and I don't know if they have any AWACS. Regardless, they won't be top quality MiG29 variants and they won't know how to use 'em right, which means you were right; they'll get creamed.

 

[vodkazvictim]

http://english.chosun.com/site/data/html_dir/2010/09/29/2010092900781.html

 

[PlasmaTwa2]

If the North decides to try anything, they'll get creamed.

Of course in a war the North will lose without Chinese help, but it isn't like the South is going to come out of this perfectly fine. A war with the North would set South Korea back decades, especially if the North is drastic enough to use one of their nuclear weapons (which I find highly unlikely, but still).

 

[vodkazvictim]

Of course in a war the North will lose without Chinese help, but it isn't like the South is going to come out of this perfectly fine. A war with the North would set South Korea back decades, especially if the North is drastic enough to use one of their nuclear weapons (which I find highly unlikely, but still).

If it's a non-nuclear war and the NK don't use artillry to strike civilian targets then it would be an oriental desert storm: SK will win easily because they will gain air supremacy quickly and it's unlikely NK tanks will be able to penetrate SK tanks.

 

[STDiva]

If it's a non-nuclear war and the NK don't use artillry to strike civilian targets then it would be an oriental desert storm: SK will win easily because they will gain air supremacy quickly and it's unlikely NK tanks will be able to penetrate SK tanks.

More pornstars need to be named after wars.

 

[bustybbwlover]

don't worry Sarah Palin is on it:

Obviously, we've got to stand with our North Korean allies. We're bound to by treaty...

http://www.smh.com.au/world/sarah-palin-confused-on-koreas-20101125-18899.html