Anybody who thinks that "Hair Metal" actually has ANYTHING to do with "Actual Metal" never bothered to listen "Actual Metal". Hair metal was a bunch of burnouts who somehow found a loophole in life: "If we play this shitty music, we can get BJs and ride harleys all day without actually working". It was all about image and sex for them, never about music, which is why they sucked, royally, I might add. "True Metal" on the other hand is brilliant in many different capacities, all depending on your preferences and open-mindedness. I'll be the first to say as a "metalhead" that 90% of all the new (to me) metal I hear sucks. However, that 10% is so much better than any other music I've ever heard that it really doesn't matter. And that 10% to me is probably completely different than the next guy's 10%. Don't even start with the musicianship nonsense, because Grunge is equally as guilty of that as most metal. Not to mention the fact that a lot metal players are phenomenal musicians, you just have to know where to look. Bands like Mastodon, High On Fire, Baroness, Amon Amarth, SkeletonWitch, Kylesa, The Hidden Hand, Type O Negative, and Testament all boast amazing talent and songwriting across a bunch of metal genres. I don't **** grunge, even though I don't really listen to it. Alice In Chains are excellent. The Screaming Trees were pretty cool (Lannegan's the fucking man). Pearl Jam has some good tunes. I never really saw the attraction with Nirvana even though Dave Grohl turned out to be quite a music man. I think metal and grunge are linked (even though they didn't think so at the time) because they are/were alternative heavy music for people who were fed up with radio bullshit. In closing, you heard Cinderella on the radio in the late 80's and decided "Metal Sucks". Cinderella most definitely sucked, but that's no reason to throw what might be one of the widest, most diverse genres of music under the "Suck Bus".
Metal Evolution on Vh1
- Thread starter alexpnz
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Good post, TSW. There were a lot of hair bands getting radio play right before grunge broke big, but like you point out, they weren't really metal, more like sugar coated pop. I think Kim Thayil put it best in the grunge episode of Metal Evolution- "those bands sounded like the partridge ****** with fuzzy guitars."
I'll even say that I don't think they were all as bad as MTV and radio made them seem at the time. Grunge was needed when it came around but no one expected it to explode the way it did. If there had been more balance in the push grunge instigated I think all those bands would have benefited, grunge, hair bands, metal, whatever. Instead, it was going from one extreme to another.
My problem with grunge is the attitude, like I posted above, a lot of those guys have chips on their shoulders and their fans can be even worse. They're not all like that but watch the grunge episode of Metal Evolution and you'll see it coming out of Mark Arm, Jack Endino, Jeff Gilbert, and even Kim Thayil to a degree. There really was no reason to have heard Cinderella on the radio in the late 80's and decide that "Metal Sucks". And, even if those bands really truly hated what they heard on the radio they could have just as easily turned the **** off. Hell, I'll be damned if I'm a slave to what I hear on the radio. Then they couldn't even stand Candlebox or Days of the New, bands that they spawned. And don't even talk about Creed or Nickleback. lol What a titty-baby emo worldview.
I'll even say that I don't think they were all as bad as MTV and radio made them seem at the time. Grunge was needed when it came around but no one expected it to explode the way it did. If there had been more balance in the push grunge instigated I think all those bands would have benefited, grunge, hair bands, metal, whatever. Instead, it was going from one extreme to another.
My problem with grunge is the attitude, like I posted above, a lot of those guys have chips on their shoulders and their fans can be even worse. They're not all like that but watch the grunge episode of Metal Evolution and you'll see it coming out of Mark Arm, Jack Endino, Jeff Gilbert, and even Kim Thayil to a degree. There really was no reason to have heard Cinderella on the radio in the late 80's and decide that "Metal Sucks". And, even if those bands really truly hated what they heard on the radio they could have just as easily turned the **** off. Hell, I'll be damned if I'm a slave to what I hear on the radio. Then they couldn't even stand Candlebox or Days of the New, bands that they spawned. And don't even talk about Creed or Nickleback. lol What a titty-baby emo worldview.
I don't even listen to the radio because they don't play metal (at least not around here). Not that I only listen to metal, but they rarely if ever play the non-metal stuff I'm in to like QOTSA, The White Stripes, The Pogues and PJ Harvey to name a few.
Man...is it so hard to be understood? I used Cinderella as a singular example, not my entire argument. I didn't listen to them and then decide that metal sucked. I listened to metal and decided that metal sucked. And don't think I just blithely looked up from my collection of Carpenters albums one day and decided to say it. I've bought the albums, I've been to the shows. Hell, I got Iron Maiden high on the smoke I brought to their "Number of the *****" tour in St.Louis. I knew Rob Halford was gay years before he un-closeted because he hit on me at the same show! (I was quite the little homo-bait when I was a teenager. How's that for sharing?)
The Cinderella point I was trying to make, and I stand by it, is that so many of these "metal" bands sucked so bad, they had to turn to ballads to get air-play. I noticed it at the time and it has been mentioned on these look-back shows.
The Cinderella point I was trying to make, and I stand by it, is that so many of these "metal" bands sucked so bad, they had to turn to ballads to get air-play. I noticed it at the time and it has been mentioned on these look-back shows.
The point I'm trying to make is that you are confused about what metal is. It's not about having to change your sound to get airplay. That's what pussies (hair metal bands) do. True metal doesn't need to change to be accepted. It is what it is. Your argument is partially correct, in that the bands that did it suck (they sucked anyways). True metal accepts the listener as someone who loves it. And because it isn't mainstream or popular or something that's really easy to get into, the people who truly love it a lot more than those people who like something because they heard it on the radio. You have to go find it (the internet has made this much easier). It wasn't just fed to you like radio rock. You love it so much that you have to go find more. That is how metal, in my opinion, works. Mayhem, have you listened to any modern metal that wasn't just something you heard on the radio? I encourage you to try some. I'll even post some examples of several different genres for you if you're legitimately interested in giving it a try. I can practically guarantee you won't like a lot of it, but I'm willing to bet, some of it will surprise you.
Appreciate the offer, but don't bother. I'm content with my Zeppelin/Grateful Dead/Janis Joplin/Guess Who/Alvin Lee collection. Way back when, I lived for Iron Maiden and Nugent, but I really don't listen to it anymore. And honestly, after I started getting into Robert Johnson/Albert King/Stevie Ray Vaughan/Willie Dixon, metal and hard rock just became a part of history for me.
alright, the offer stands for anyone who's interested. perhaps we should use this thread to share our tastes in all things metal?
Have you listened to any Kenny Wayne Shepherd?
Little Red Wagon Repairman
Girls Can't Wrestle
Thanks for the tip. Put it on DVR Series Manager.
alexpnz
Lord Dipstick
Loved the episode on Nu Metal last night.
Jonathan Davis really threw Fred Durst and Limp Bizkit under the bus.
Blaming them for what happened @ Woodstock 99. :stir:
What I really like about this show is ALL the different interviews this dude got.
Anybody from Ozzy and Lars all the way down thru Fred Durst, Scott Stapp and Chad Kroeger.
He really did a great, informative job w/ this series.
Jonathan Davis really threw Fred Durst and Limp Bizkit under the bus.
Blaming them for what happened @ Woodstock 99. :stir:
What I really like about this show is ALL the different interviews this dude got.
Anybody from Ozzy and Lars all the way down thru Fred Durst, Scott Stapp and Chad Kroeger.
He really did a great, informative job w/ this series.
The nu-metal episode was great!!! What an excellent series! The interviews are so good!!!
anyone care to give me an opinion on this?
I'm not a fan of the alternative guitar tuning (C).
Better than G.L.A.M. (Gay L.A. Metal)
By the way, to anyone who thought the Grunge guys were 'anti-metal', they weren't. Their hatred was strictly for the glam/hair rock subgenre scene that was so overblown and bloated in the mainstream. Grunge was the result of an opposite reaction to it, much like Punk rock came from the hatred for the arena rock era that got out of hand. It needed to happen.
pssh... why? what metal bands don't an alternate tuning? I agree that some bands tune way down and it just sounds like sloppy ****, but that guy (matt pike) fucking destroys
okay so that was a wierd ass double-post
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