No, I think you misunderstood what I was saying....That the reason religion and God are being turned away from is BECAUSE of the PEOPLE OF THOSE RELIGIONS, I didn't say anything about Godlessness and so on. Jesus also had a problem with religious leaders in his time because they did the same thing...using religion as a means to persecute, control, and condemn others...again the blame was on the religious leaders even then, as it is now, and Jesus was pretty clear about who was to blame, and it wasn't non believers. Thanks for the put down though.
For the record, it wasn't a put down. I simply thought you went too far in your condemnation of non-believers. Atheists aren't 'Evil' any more than Theists are 'Good' (capital 'G'). In fact, atheists reject the distinction, as well as the existence of such abstract concepts as 'Piety' and 'Sin'. There is only right and wrong, just and unjust behavior, on the atheist perspective.
Here is what you said:
...people who don't want to believe there is any God, no matter who that may be to anyone else, will lie and do their best to make believers feel inferior, stupid, childish.
At the same time, it is believers fault there is so many that hate religion, so many now that would not even consider God, because of Christians, Jews, Muslims and nearly every faith using their beliefs to justify killing others, belittling others, torturing and forcing others to believe as they do.
...when Jesus was here...he didn't spend time condemning homos, prostitutes, people who didn't believe in him, and people of other faiths.... no, he condemned the leaders of the church! He even said that there was a 'Special Place in Hell' (I'm paraphrasing here) for them because they had caused so many to turn away from God. Exactly what is happening now.
to which I responded:
Do you have any idea how long people have been making reactionary statements like this, that "Godlessness is beginning to prevail" and "we're all doomed" and other such crap? Let's just say you're not the first.
What shall we call the leaders of the church who cause others "to turn away from God"? Rather than call them non-believers, shall we call them 'untrue believers'?
The point I was making had nothing to do with
who was responsible for people pulling away from religion. I neither draw a distinction between true believers and untrue believers, nor accept that many have been caused "to turn away from God;" at least, not in the sense you intended, not as a phenomenon that is "happening now."
One of the things that all religious demagogues claim is that humanity is wasting away, morally and otherwise, due to irreligion, heresy or bad faith. All doomsday cult leaders - your David Koresh's and Marshall Applewhite's - make pronouncements like this, and even more level-headed (but not homicidal or suicidal) religious leaders claim a decline in religious belief, or the tendency to turn to sin. Many other reactionary figures blame natural disasters or massacres like the Newtown shooting on our "sinful ways" or on those who "don't believe." The Fred Phelps whacko's of Topeka think every horrible thing that happens is a gift from God because it confirms that "God Hates Fags." All kinds of awful things are attributed to lack of faith or lack of
true faith.
So what I was reacting to was the notion that "people are turning away from God," as though this was some kind of event or recent trend, or even a recently
claimed trend. In fact, it is frequently claimed by many people for various reasons, and moreover, it isn't even true.
I don't deny that religious people get persecuted, nor do I deny that religious people sometimes become disenchanted with their church and turn away. But the idea that this is "happening" - all over the place, as it were - is nothing more than religious rhetoric, and the propaganda of proselytizers.
I don't count you among these people, I just didn't care for your adopting their sentiment.
