Iraq Uncensored

[Blackjack]

hey, considering the fact that in the 2nd world war millions of people died under inhuman circumstances, nobody won this war. And in the end, there is no possibility to win a war, just a huge possibility that those, who didn't have anything to do with it, lose it.
A wise man once said that "war means, old people talk and young people die". dunno where I got that from, but I think that it's something worth remembering.

 

[McRocket]

"war means, old people talk and young people die".

I like that one. But I would add,

'war means; rich, old people talk and everyone else dies.

 

[McRocket]

No chance.

If he could have took us....it would have happened plain and simple.

He didnt b/c WE (The British) kicked ass.

No Country saved our butts ...not even The US who "think" they won WW2.

We saved ourselves.

I don't agree. But just as well I was never proved right.

 

[LetoII]

i actually didn't want to continue this, but i can't help. i'd like to say something about Al Quaeda, too.

most people associate Al Quaeda with pure evilism, conscienceless terrorist who declared war to the western civilization because they detest our way of life and our lack of faith. only few know who they really are, and why they became terrorists in the first place.

let's have one more look into the past. same scenario: Americans vs. Russians. this time the focus is on Afghanistan ! the Russians have occupied the country, which was, of course, a thorn in the American's side. something had to be done - with a minimal effort of their own resources (of course). that was when the US government approached and recruited Osama Bin Laden ! him and another 100,000 young fanatics from the arabian countries. the Muhadjin, the so-called freedom fighters were actually mercenaries for America. they were recruited, equipped and trained by US forces. even the name "Muhadjin" was an american invention !!!
for ten years the Muhadjin fought the Russians in Afghanistan. about 30,000 russian soldiers died by terroristic assaults from America's mercenaries, and eventually they managed to banish the Commies. what happened then ? nothing ! as far as the US were concerned the job was done. time to go home. "yeah, we know your country looks terrible after this war, but hey, it's not our country !"
since then every day 10 people are dying due to the remaining land-mines in Afghanistan. that's 3,650 dead per year. you do the math. where's the annual commemoration for that ??? WTC-crash ? perfect media presence ! two towers, two planes, bang bang, the world is appalled - that is shown within 2 seconds. until they've shown how 3,000 people are stepping on a land-mine in Afghanistan....you see where this is leading.
the people in Afghanistan had been used like toilet paper. there's no way to blandish this.
when the Muhadjin decided to free their folks in Chechenya, they became true terrorists in our eyes, because the western world had already affiliated with the mass-murderer Putin (what he's doing in Chechenya - those are true ethnic cleansings !!!).

as i said, the Muhadjin had been used like toilet paper. and on 9/11 they came back to kick the ass they've been wiped on - again, there's no way to blandish this.

don't get me wrong. i do not endorse Al Quaeda's actions (do not confuse reason with justification), but i can totally comprehend their motivation !!

Al Quaeda doesn't hate America for being rich and powerful and christian, but because the US government has seriously fucked up their country and because they still don't stop meddling in the middle east !

 

[MightyKrendall]

One last thing is left for me to say to the pro-Bush-guys:
Sapere aude!
For those who don't know Kant, don't know why, but I think there are not many of you guys who know him or what he did, translated it means:
Have the courage to use your mind!

See, there's where I have a problem. I don't mind if you don't agree with Bush or what the country's doing. That's your choice. But I don't like the implied insult to my intelligence just for supporting Bush. I've listened long and hard about why we're in this war, what we're trying to do, and what our goals are. I happen to agree with them and I think they're the best way to deal with terrorism. Other people disagree, and that's cool. Just don't say I'm an idiot just because my deductions differ from yours.

 

[MightyKrendall]

I'd like to add that LetoII's post is exactly why we're so objective over who we've allowed to fight alongside us. History has shown why the philosophy of "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" doesn't work.

Also, the reason we're spending so much time in Iraq to make sure things are in place is so that we don't create another regime of hatred.

 

[Brino]

See, there's where I have a problem. I don't mind if you don't agree with Bush or what the country's doing. That's your choice. But I don't like the implied insult to my intelligence just for supporting Bush. I've listened long and hard about why we're in this war, what we're trying to do, and what our goals are. I happen to agree with them and I think they're the best way to deal with terrorism. Other people disagree, and that's cool. Just don't say I'm an idiot just because my deductions differ from yours.

One question though, Why Iraq? Why do you support Bush fighting Iraq and doing nothing about all the other countries who support terrorism even more than Iraq did? This is seriously something that bugs the crap out of me because I just don't get it. If Bush were at least consistently fighting terrorism all over the world then maybe I'd have a little more respect for him. Instead Bush chooses to focus on Iraq and leaves other countries who supported terrorism alone. Why do you support that? Do you support that?

 

[XanderJack]

Sorry MightyKrendall, but come on. You have listened to the reasons and goals we are in this war. Where did you hear those reasons and goals from, Bush. I am sure he wouldn't tell a lie to cover up his real motives would he. No way, not our president he couldn't lie. Please, use common sense. How can any republican, or conservative read LetoII's post, which is fact, and be for this war. Bush downright lied, that is also a fact, hear that a FACT.

 

[McRocket]

Sorry MightyKrendall, but come on. You have listened to the reasons and goals we are in this war. Where did you hear those reasons and goals from, Bush. I am sure he wouldn't tell a lie to cover up his real motives would he. No way, not our president he couldn't lie. Please, use common sense. How can any republican, or conservative read LetoII's post, which is fact, and be for this war. Bush downright lied, that is also a fact, hear that a FACT.

Yeah, Bush probably lied. I think he did, that's for sure. But ALL President's have lied (imo). Remember this one...
'I did not have sexual relations with that woman'. (Or words to that effect)

And with that the business of the nation was paralyzed for months while this nonsense played itself out.

I never trust President's. Never. I don't care what party they are from. They all want to be elected and they all want to stay elected. And they will do almost anything to hang onto that power.
This world would be a MUCH better place if we assumed that everything politicians say is a lie unless they prove it is not. Everything.

But, like when I fantasize about having sex with one of the babes on here - that is living in a dream world.

 

[XanderJack]

Lets not compare Clinton's lie with Bushes, not saying you are mcrocket. The fact that Clinton was impeached for getting a blowjob, yet Bush hasn't been impeached for lying to the nation and killing 1,000+ U.S. soldiers, is just fucking amazing. And just quite sad.

 

[MightyKrendall]

One question though, Why Iraq? Why do you support Bush fighting Iraq and doing nothing about all the other countries who support terrorism even more than Iraq did? This is seriously something that bugs the crap out of me because I just don't get it. If Bush were at least consistently fighting terrorism all over the world then maybe I'd have a little more respect for him. Instead Bush chooses to focus on Iraq and leaves other countries who supported terrorism alone. Why do you support that? Do you support that?

Well, the eventual big target is Iran. The problem is we think Iran might have nukes (though all reports currently say they don't). What Bush is trying to do is basically a repeat of the Soviet collapse by having the people within Iran revolt agaisnt the terrorist regime. The best way to do that is to free the countries around them, like Iraq. The hope is that the people within Iran will see that freedom is possible and they'll actively help us in bringing down Iran.

 

[MightyKrendall]

Lets not compare Clinton's lie with Bushes, not saying you are mcrocket. The fact that Clinton was impeached for getting a blowjob, yet Bush hasn't been impeached for lying to the nation and killing 1,000+ U.S. soldiers, is just fucking amazing. And just quite sad.

What, exactly, is Bush's lie? WMDs? Like I said earlier, the intelligence of every major country said Iraq had WMDs. So what else?

 

[Brino]

Well, the eventual big target is Iran. The problem is we think Iran might have nukes (though all reports currently say they don't). What Bush is trying to do is basically a repeat of the Soviet collapse by having the people within Iran revolt agaisnt the terrorist regime. The best way to do that is to free the countries around them, like Iraq. The hope is that the people within Iran will see that freedom is possible and they'll actively help us in bringing down Iran.

Two Things:

So why all of a sudden are we afraid of attacking a country because they have WMD's? We thought Iraq had WMD's and we still attacked them.

The People of Iran by and large like their government. Iran isn't like Iraq, as far as I know they don't have torture rooms and they don't kill their citizens on mass. They aren't likely to want to overthrow their government.

 

[Blackjack]

let me just set the records straight. I didn't mean to call you an idiot, even though I have to admit that it can be understood that way. What I wanted to express was that you should simply believe everything your glorious president says, just because he is your president. I apologize to everyone who felt insulted by my post

 

[hooterwngs]

I was there for the war, it is something like that over there, however when i was there the people there loved us throwing flowers at us saying we love america. Today its hard to trust anyone over there

 

[McRocket]

I was there for the war, it is something like that over there, however when i was there the people there loved us throwing flowers at us saying we love america. Today its hard to trust anyone over there

If you don't mind the question. Do you think the US should have gone into Iraq? And if so, how would you have done it different.
If you don't want to talk about it, I understand.

 

[hooterwngs]

If you don't mind the question. Do you think the US should have gone into Iraq? And if so, how would you have done it different.
If you don't want to talk about it, I understand.

Yes I do think they should have, but only to help the people after we removed Saddam we should have just left and let them do what they wanted to instead of trying to have them do what we want.

 

[JerseyRocks]

the problam with just removing saddam and leaving is they all be killing each other trying to take over, and it would be a bigger mess than we have now, the only responsible thing to do now is stay till they have some sort of goverment set up, which could take years till its stable.

he should have just let the U N weapon inspectors in, it looks like he had nothing to hide anyway and maybe he could have prevented this

 

[McRocket]

I agree with hooterwngs (for what it is worth). Would you like strangers coming in and telling you how to run your country? Would Americans have liked it if the world had invaded Amerrica during the Civil War and said, 'no more fighting and no more slavery. Like it or not. Because we don't agree with it.'?
I guarantee you those foreign troops would have been attacked just like US troops are being attacked now.
It is one thing to throw Saddam out (the Iraqi's seemed to really appreciate that). It is another thing to ram your ideas down their throat at virtual gunpoint. It is their country. As long as there is no genocide - if they want to have a civil war. That is their business. I bet you a real civil war would have killed not many more then have died under US occupation.

Boot out Saddam. Have organized, UN recognized elections, fix as much of their infrasstructure as you can and then get the heck out of there. That is what I think the US should have done. (which is apparently what Hooterwngs already said).

 

[tietliplover]

Here is a good link all video's and pics http://www.fallujah.us/videos/ Warining: Some video's miet have gore.