Mayhem
Banned
And what exactly is the point you think you're making? What is your definition of "catastrophic levels"? What is your definition of "loss of glaciers"? "Melting ice caps"?
I know, global warming is a liberal hoax, but still...
- Thread starter Johan
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And what exactly is the point you think you're making? What is your definition of "catastrophic levels"? What is your definition of "loss of glaciers"? "Melting ice caps"?
Looks like I am going to have to start talking to you like we talk to Will E. Let's see some data that we are doing more damage to glaciers, causing ice caps to melt or raising sea levels than has EVER happened before. You are one of those claiming we are doomed if we don't change our evil ways. So you or some of your scientist buddies of which i am sure you have many, kindly produce something that proves that the Earth has never experienced anything in climate change in all it's history that reaches the level that it is now . I want to believe I really do. But a few thousand years data ovt of the billions available just ain't cutting it for me. Hell I might even throw in some cash if you can do it.
xfire
New Twitter/X @cxffreeman
My undergraduate degree is a bachelor of science, I took two semesters each of biology and geology as part of my core requirements, point being that my knowledge of biology and geology is basic and rudimentary. Having said that, the earth has gone from one extreme to the other over the last four and a half billion years, of which humans have inhabited this planet for less than 0.20%. Did humans cause plate tectonics, continental drift, Snow Ball Earth? No, of course not. Did humans cause the five mass extinctions? No, humans didn't exist when those occurred. Humans weren't involved with the Cambrian Explosion, from which life as we know it had it's genesis. The consensus among the Ph.D's in the Science building at the university I attended was that man has had little to no effect on the natural cycles of the earth. We don't have the ability to change the climate, we don't have the ability to change weather patterns, we don't have the ability to change solar events that affect the atmosphere, we have no control over the hydrosphere. These things have been here long before human arrival, and will remain long after our departure. What we do have control over is our ability to survive on this planet. Nature is a hostile place, and it's only through adaptation that our species has survived. Humans don't have fur, so we wear clothes. We seek shelter from inclement weather. We use our brains and thumbs to improvise tools. We drink water, not crude oil. The earth has an impressive ability to absorb a great deal of abuse, human flesh is fragile. I'm aware that the popular opinion among conservatives in the politics/religion section is that Ms. Milano isn't a a very bright bulb, but her post above, pretty much nails it, and she apparently didn't have to sit through sixteen semester hours of requisite university science to figure that shit out.
Mayhem
Banned
Well (*sigh*) it looks like I get to Will E you right back. The data exists, it's easy to find, you know this perfectly well and you can dredge it up all by your lonesome.
Aaaand, just like Will, Sam, georges and Philby; you choose to completely ignore that valid questions put to you. If there was a time, "billions" of years ago that there was an extreme warming trend that melted the ice caps, decimated the glaciers, etc ..... what? First of all, I don't recall science reporting that the ice caps ever melted. But in any case, what is the point you are trying to make? And how does the point you think you're making relate to coal fired industry, de-forestation, rampant pollution, depletion of the ozone layer and acid rain? What correlation do you think you are making?
Look! As you know I am a man of faith and I am putting a lot of faith in the science community that they are not selling me a bill of goods. I am on board for now even to the point of purchasing a hybrid vehicle. I even take my little reusable grocery bags to the store and was something I used to laugh at people for doing. So I am playing by the rules. You said a lot in that post yet you answered nothing. Of course you agree with little miss porno she is toeing the company line. I simply want to see a return on my investment and to date no one has proven that what we are experiencing now didn't happen at some point earlier when man could not have played a part in it. Hay-sous baillar Cristo!
The point I am making is that the Earth is pretty resiliant. Doesn't matter if an asteroid slams into us or if we launch 10000 nuclear warheads we will cause temporary damage but the Earth always regenerates itself. I am against deforestation as well but now you are getting ahead of yourself. Nobody is saying that the polar icecaps are melting? Really now. All I am asking is to provide evidence that what we are experiencing is at such a level that it has never happened before and that the only explanation is that man has contributed to it and only man could have caused it.
Mayhem
Banned
I reject the first part of your post entirely. It does matter if the calamaties you mention happen. Either scenario either wipes us all out or wipes out the vast majority of us (depending on the size of the asteroid).
Seriously, if you want me to respect you, you gotta quit saying shit like this. Yes, the Earth will spin on and a few bazillion years a new life-order (I just made that up) will emerge. But see, that's the shit that people like me are trying to prevent. I'd like to keep the Morlocks and the Eloi in the movies, if you don't mind.
The explanations are out there in such quantity that I don't need to post links and go on a point-by-point journey with you. Again BC, you know this and you're making me waste time by pointing out the obvious. This is again, why I lose the need to be respectful when it gets like this. You know for a fact that Googling any combination of "global warming", "climate change", "peer reviewed", "scientific data" will get you all this evidence that you are trying to deny. Not to mention the source after source that myself and others have posted right here as threads, or as replies in threads.
Did you really say "If you want me to respect you" BWAHAHAHAHAHA The question remains unanswered. See I am not sure if you are an atheist or not but if you are even you believe in something you cannot see. You actually have been convinced that throughout history that this is the most dire situation environmentally have ever faced. Every substance that we are using to destroy this planet comes from and originated from this planet yet it is going to destroy it Mariah Milano speaking in absolutes that a certain plant has never grown in a certain place until recently. Oh really? In billions of years that plant may have neuer grown there before lmao. I believe in preservation because it is the right thing to do. Not because I am being spoon fed a bunch of shit that has yet to be proven that it has never happened before. " If you want me to respect you" Still laughing over that one. you actually do have a sense of humor.
Mariahxxx
Official Checked Star Member
BC you just recently said. "I am on record saying that climate change is real!" Now you're being a typical republican demanding more evidence than the entire scientific community? And didn't you just throw your extensive studies in science around when discussing the finite energies and matter in the universe? I believe you did. So what gives? That republican gene just getting the best of you and you can't help it? And yes there have been times when sea levels were elevated and the earth warmed up, but NEVER at this rate.
I went to Missoula Montana last summer with a friend to her aunts cattle ranch in a little town called St Ignatious where the Bison range is. We drove to Glacier National Park and stayed at the hotel there and took the tour on the lakes and hiked and took the helicopter tour that flew us over the glaciers. It was so incredible and beautiful but incredibly sad. They did a study in 1992 of the melting of the glaciers in the park and estimated that by 2030 they would be totally gone, but now the rates has increased to much that they see it happening 10 years earlier. So by 2020, all of the glaciers will be totally gone. In Glacier National Park! As of today there are 24 glaciers in the park when 50 years ago there were 150. All 37 of the named glaciers are gone. That means that streams will dry up and the balance of nature will be turned upside down. Has it ever happened before? Maybe. But never at this rate. Go to Mexico City some time and see the sickening layer of brown air hanging over the city.
Did you know that major glaciers have entirely disappeared from the Andes, and the Himalaya have lost a third of their snow? Do you know what that means for the wildlife and plants that live in those areas? They are seeing record migrations and at first, melting glaciers will expose more growing area for plants. But eventually plants will crowd the area, and reduced water could cause drying and die-offs.
So I ask you, when in history has man dumped so much toxic waste into the air and sea and ground? When I went to New Zealand we rented a car and drove all the way to from Auckland to south island and back. We went to these Maori villages and I was told by a Maori elder that New Zealand has extremely high skin cancer rates because this is where the ozone is the thinnest. I researched it a little bit and sure enough, the thin spot of the ozone is right above New Zealand and Antarctica where there is actually a hole.
The evidence is overwhelming but the loss of money by people like the Koch brothers is causing the propaganda machines to be put into full gear and the funding is limitless. They want you to think using fossil fuel is not a problem. They want you to continue to think oil is the answer and we don't need regulations on drilling and mining. Burning coal? no worry! It's not really bad for the air at all right?
You can ignore science all you want, but how do you ignore no cod in Cape Cod? No glaciers in Glacier National Park? How do you ignore the disappearance of bees? The number of fish with toxic levels of mercury and radiation?
I went to Missoula Montana last summer with a friend to her aunts cattle ranch in a little town called St Ignatious where the Bison range is. We drove to Glacier National Park and stayed at the hotel there and took the tour on the lakes and hiked and took the helicopter tour that flew us over the glaciers. It was so incredible and beautiful but incredibly sad. They did a study in 1992 of the melting of the glaciers in the park and estimated that by 2030 they would be totally gone, but now the rates has increased to much that they see it happening 10 years earlier. So by 2020, all of the glaciers will be totally gone. In Glacier National Park! As of today there are 24 glaciers in the park when 50 years ago there were 150. All 37 of the named glaciers are gone. That means that streams will dry up and the balance of nature will be turned upside down. Has it ever happened before? Maybe. But never at this rate. Go to Mexico City some time and see the sickening layer of brown air hanging over the city.
Did you know that major glaciers have entirely disappeared from the Andes, and the Himalaya have lost a third of their snow? Do you know what that means for the wildlife and plants that live in those areas? They are seeing record migrations and at first, melting glaciers will expose more growing area for plants. But eventually plants will crowd the area, and reduced water could cause drying and die-offs.
So I ask you, when in history has man dumped so much toxic waste into the air and sea and ground? When I went to New Zealand we rented a car and drove all the way to from Auckland to south island and back. We went to these Maori villages and I was told by a Maori elder that New Zealand has extremely high skin cancer rates because this is where the ozone is the thinnest. I researched it a little bit and sure enough, the thin spot of the ozone is right above New Zealand and Antarctica where there is actually a hole.
The evidence is overwhelming but the loss of money by people like the Koch brothers is causing the propaganda machines to be put into full gear and the funding is limitless. They want you to think using fossil fuel is not a problem. They want you to continue to think oil is the answer and we don't need regulations on drilling and mining. Burning coal? no worry! It's not really bad for the air at all right?
You can ignore science all you want, but how do you ignore no cod in Cape Cod? No glaciers in Glacier National Park? How do you ignore the disappearance of bees? The number of fish with toxic levels of mercury and radiation?
Mariahxxx
Official Checked Star Member
"You have to be mature enough to recognize something can be true even if you don't like the consequences of it. That's what it means to be a mature adult." - Niel Degrasse Tyson
"All climate scientists should announce they're going to take their entire life savings and invest in industries that will thrive under the conditions of global warming. All those in denial of global warming -- which tends to be some of the wealthier people of the nation -- won't do that. As global warming unfolds, that will be the greatest inversion of wealth the world has ever seen. That's all it takes," said Tyson, adding with a smile and a shrug, "I could get rich off this." - Niel Degrasse Tyson
I told you I am a big fan of Niel Degrasse Tyson....he was challenged on climate change and global warming and this is what he said. Someone who is a leading physicist in the WORLD: (the best part starts at 2:10)
and here is a study that was done by 21 scientists from 17 different institutes from 7 nations around the world:
"The Arctic is on the move. The North Pole is in the same place, but Arctic conditions have begun to shift. A study of 30 years of satellite data confirms that the difference in temperatures between the seasons has diminished.
Conditions now have shifted the equivalent of four or five degrees of latitude southward. At the same time, vegetation has moved north, colonizing the thawing permafrost.
Studies show vegetation now growing nearly 500 miles further north than it did just a few decades ago.
A team of 21 scientists from 17 institutions in seven nations reports in Nature Climate Change that as the cover of snow and ice has diminished and retreated in the Arctic Circle, the temperatures have begun to increase — at differing rates — during the four seasons. Although conditions differ from region to region, overall the growing season is beginning earlier, and the autumn freeze is starting later.
Conditions in northern latitudes now increasingly resemble those found several hundred miles further south 30 years ago. One of the authors, Bruce Forbes of the University of Lapland in Finland, told the Climate News Network that in his own research region of north-west Siberia “we are seeing more frequent and longer-lasting high pressure systems. In winter, the snow cover comes later, is deeper on average than in the 1960s, but is melting out earlier in spring.”
Climate is a complicated business, and there is always legitimate room for argument about the validity of one selected set of measurements, a potential bias in the observations, or the reliability of comparison data collected two generations earlier.
But vegetables can’t be fooled. Plants grow where they can. If deciduous shrubs are growing taller, and colonizing sites ever further north, then conditions must be getting warmer, and staying warmer."
"All climate scientists should announce they're going to take their entire life savings and invest in industries that will thrive under the conditions of global warming. All those in denial of global warming -- which tends to be some of the wealthier people of the nation -- won't do that. As global warming unfolds, that will be the greatest inversion of wealth the world has ever seen. That's all it takes," said Tyson, adding with a smile and a shrug, "I could get rich off this." - Niel Degrasse Tyson
I told you I am a big fan of Niel Degrasse Tyson....he was challenged on climate change and global warming and this is what he said. Someone who is a leading physicist in the WORLD: (the best part starts at 2:10)
and here is a study that was done by 21 scientists from 17 different institutes from 7 nations around the world:
"The Arctic is on the move. The North Pole is in the same place, but Arctic conditions have begun to shift. A study of 30 years of satellite data confirms that the difference in temperatures between the seasons has diminished.
Conditions now have shifted the equivalent of four or five degrees of latitude southward. At the same time, vegetation has moved north, colonizing the thawing permafrost.
Studies show vegetation now growing nearly 500 miles further north than it did just a few decades ago.
A team of 21 scientists from 17 institutions in seven nations reports in Nature Climate Change that as the cover of snow and ice has diminished and retreated in the Arctic Circle, the temperatures have begun to increase — at differing rates — during the four seasons. Although conditions differ from region to region, overall the growing season is beginning earlier, and the autumn freeze is starting later.
Conditions in northern latitudes now increasingly resemble those found several hundred miles further south 30 years ago. One of the authors, Bruce Forbes of the University of Lapland in Finland, told the Climate News Network that in his own research region of north-west Siberia “we are seeing more frequent and longer-lasting high pressure systems. In winter, the snow cover comes later, is deeper on average than in the 1960s, but is melting out earlier in spring.”
Climate is a complicated business, and there is always legitimate room for argument about the validity of one selected set of measurements, a potential bias in the observations, or the reliability of comparison data collected two generations earlier.
But vegetables can’t be fooled. Plants grow where they can. If deciduous shrubs are growing taller, and colonizing sites ever further north, then conditions must be getting warmer, and staying warmer."
Koch Brothers Koch Brothers Koch Brothers Koch Brothers.. I am telling you that we are definitely living in a period of global climate change. But the jury is still out as to what is the cause. The easiest way to make believers out of skeptics is to prove that it hasn't happened before.
And Milano I was in physics class when you were floating in your daddy's nut sack. the question is not that it is happening but if it happened before. And more importantly what exactly are you doing to combat it? From all of your talk it appears you are doing nothing. My hybrid says that i am.
Mariahxxx
Official Checked Star Member
again the earth will be here, but we won't. the oceans are being fished at rates never before seen. sharks are being killed at rates never before seen as are whales. The food chain is being demolished. Overpopulated countries like India and Africa that have zero regulations are dumping all of their waste into the seas and rivers and burning it. Have you ever gone swimming in Santa Monica? People get ear infections because of the pollution levels in that water. Medical waste was dumped into Santa Monica bay for over a hundred years. in the 1970s you could find bandages and syringes on the beach!!
Surely you cannot believe that all of this isn't killing the conditions we require to live?
Mariahxxx
Official Checked Star Member
I know that the Koch brothers are like gods to you republicans, but you cannot deny their funding of anti-science information. You republicans bitch endlessly about people like George Souros but how is he different? A billionaire using his money and influence to steer people to believing what will benefit his wallet. he's a fucking pig who should be castrated and so should the Koch brothers. They are disgusting human beings. They fund the Heartland institute which has a goal of discrediting climate change research. Why would they fund that? They paid a scientist Richard Muller $150,000 to say he disagrees with the majority of scientists only for him to turn around and admit he now believes in it after he did the research.
I am guilty of not being as emissions conscience as I should be. No question. But I have driven a flex fuel for 5 years. I recycle. I have solar lights on my dock light and my outdoor lighting is 100% solar. I have tried to educate myself on how to be better and what i can do, but I cannot deny that I fly on airplanes and have a boat and enjoy a good steak and use electricity. But at least I fucking admit that its bad! How many people, including an overwhelming number of people on your side refuse to admit that it's bad for us to dump radioactive waste into the drinking water or pollute the seas or burn coal? come on dude.
again you are touting your education in science but look at the good it did lol you are questioning the people who are considered to be the top scientists in the WORLD? come on Zippy you're smarter than that!
I am guilty of not being as emissions conscience as I should be. No question. But I have driven a flex fuel for 5 years. I recycle. I have solar lights on my dock light and my outdoor lighting is 100% solar. I have tried to educate myself on how to be better and what i can do, but I cannot deny that I fly on airplanes and have a boat and enjoy a good steak and use electricity. But at least I fucking admit that its bad! How many people, including an overwhelming number of people on your side refuse to admit that it's bad for us to dump radioactive waste into the drinking water or pollute the seas or burn coal? come on dude.
again you are touting your education in science but look at the good it did lol you are questioning the people who are considered to be the top scientists in the WORLD? come on Zippy you're smarter than that!
I believe that we are killing our environment and because of overpopulation we are draining the earth of natural resources.
Again, I am doing my part to combat it. What are the at least 10 extended vacations that you take a year doing to ease the situation. I actually walk whenever I can and ride a bicycle to the office and to court whenever the weather allows.
Again, I am doing my part to combat it. What are the at least 10 extended vacations that you take a year doing to ease the situation. I actually walk whenever I can and ride a bicycle to the office and to court whenever the weather allows.
HAY-SOUS H.CRISTO! .I said that climate change seems to be exacerbated by human beings . But I have also asked the simple question has the present conditions and rate ever been experienced before. Not a one of you can answer that.
Mariahxxx
Official Checked Star Member
I went to an ecoresort in Mexico once lol Hotelito Desconocido, Jalisco no electricity all rain water and solar power. it was pretty amazing
I don't take 10 vacations a year either. I work at home and only put about 2500 miles a year on my car. Again, I am not perfect but I try to bring awareness to the issue and do my best to limit what I contribute to it.
I don't take 10 vacations a year either. I work at home and only put about 2500 miles a year on my car. Again, I am not perfect but I try to bring awareness to the issue and do my best to limit what I contribute to it.
Mariahxxx
Official Checked Star Member
I can answer and did. These conditions have NEVER been experienced before at the rate that it's happening now. That is an overwhelming conclusion by the entire scientific community. how the fuck wasn't that answered? watch that video I posted of Neil Degrasse Tyson and Lutz the former CEO from GM arguing it.
I'm no expert, but I think ecosystems that are self-regulating work by expansion and contraction. The whole rabbits and fox thing - kill off too many rabbits and it will reduce the fox population. Too few foxes will result in increased bunny populations. It is a pretty violent regulation and humans have exceptional adaption ability. Waxing philosophically, I don't think humans have the ability to really regulate themselves on a large scale. So, does that mean a violent regulation of our ecosystem is inevitable?
To your question blue, not enough. I recycle. No hybrids in my household (although I don't believe they actually help the environment overall - I may be wrong. Feel free to correct me.) I often drive to the gym to use the elliptical. Maybe that is silly and wasteful.
