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I get angry when Americans make generalizations about Finland, Sweden, Norway..

bobjustbob

Proud member of FreeOnes Hall Of Fame. Retired to
Fixing the old boys network in the legal system is a very difficult task. Judges have to be lawyers and politicians are usually lawyers or lawyer backed. Tort reform needs to be done but that still won't fix the overall problem. I'm stumped for answers.

On taxes I say close the loopholes. There are far too many that complicate the system. That will make it fair for all. No need to jack up tax rates. Georges is right. Close down the nanny state. When Clinton limited the time for collecting welfare, unemployment continued to decline and the feds got to create a budget surplus. Was this magic? No. People saw the end of free money and got off their dead asses and went to work. The flood of people entering this country for the handouts also declined. Before that all you needed to do was have a baby and sit on your ass the rest of your life. Want more money? Have another baby. Don't get married otherwise the gravy train stops. Corporate welfare? They seem to be doing a very good job of paying that money back. Of the $605 billion paid out $457 billion has been paid back. 75% in 4 years.
 
All countries around the baltic sea are baltic countries. :)

The most annoying thing is being called communist and when Sweden is being compared to China and the Soviet Union.
And that is coming from the land of the free which have just one more party than any dictatorship.
Also the swedish centre right is to the left of the american democrats, which makes me wonder just how far to the right the republicans really is.
 
All countries around the baltic sea are baltic countries. :)


That's true, but for me the Baltic countries is reminiscent of Estonia, Lithuania and Latvia.


baltian.maat.png
 

vodkazvictim

Why save the world, when you can rule it?
Fixing the old boys network in the legal system is a very difficult task. Judges have to be lawyers and politicians are usually lawyers or lawyer backed. Tort reform needs to be done but that still won't fix the overall problem. I'm stumped for answers.

On taxes I say close the loopholes. There are far too many that complicate the system. That will make it fair for all. No need to jack up tax rates.
100% agreement up 'til here...
Georges is right. Close down the nanny state. When Clinton limited the time for collecting welfare, unemployment continued to decline and the feds got to create a budget surplus. Was this magic? No. People saw the end of free money and got off their dead asses and went to work. The flood of people entering this country for the handouts also declined. Before that all you needed to do was have a baby and sit on your ass the rest of your life. Want more money? Have another baby. Don't get married otherwise the gravy train stops. Corporate welfare? They seem to be doing a very good job of paying that money back. Of the $605 billion paid out $457 billion has been paid back. 75% in 4 years.
[0% agreement from here. Stats please for the corporate welfare? Because corporations over here aint paying much back.
 

bobjustbob

Proud member of FreeOnes Hall Of Fame. Retired to
0% agreement from here. Stats please for the corporate welfare? Because corporations over here aint paying much back.

Here's the state of the USA bailout plan.
http://projects.propublica.org/bailout/

Of 78 banks that got over $100M in bailout money only 17 are still in the red. 21 out of 22 that got $1B are paid in full. All paid back plus interest.

How did the community development banks do? 6 of 74 community banks paid the government back. This does not include the 2 federal government programs that got $190B in bailout not paid back yet. AIG Insurance paid back their $68B plus $5B interest. Citigroup and Bank of America got $45B each and has paid back with $12.5B and $4.5B respectively in interest. Chase, Morgan Stanley, Wells Fargo, Goldman, all paid in full with over $1B in interest each.
 

vodkazvictim

Why save the world, when you can rule it?
Here's the state of the USA bailout plan.
http://projects.propublica.org/bailout/

Of 78 banks that got over $100M in bailout money only 17 are still in the red. 21 out of 22 that got $1B are paid in full. All paid back plus interest.

How did the community development banks do? 6 of 74 community banks paid the government back. This does not include the 2 federal government programs that got $190B in bailout not paid back yet. AIG Insurance paid back their $68B plus $5B interest. Citigroup and Bank of America got $45B each and has paid back with $12.5B and $4.5B respectively in interest. Chase, Morgan Stanley, Wells Fargo, Goldman, all paid in full with over $1B in interest each.
If private banking is so good, why did they need a bailout?
If capitalism is so good, why is there an economic collapse every 20 years and why is Japan bumping along the bottom.
 
Well the Goths brought down the Roman Empire, so they have that to answer for.
 

bobjustbob

Proud member of FreeOnes Hall Of Fame. Retired to
If private banking is so good, why did they need a bailout?
If capitalism is so good, why is there an economic collapse every 20 years and why is Japan bumping along the bottom.

The capitalist model is resilient to change. Markets go up and down. The private market reacts better to change than government. The people don't have to wait for policy to decide what to do with their money. I gave you the numbers. Private firms paid back and government ones didn't. They all got into the same troubles for the same reasons.

The auto bailout? Well, at average $70 per hour and $26 hour to start, something had to give or lose 3 million of these jobs. Was it worth the money? Japan will find out their way to get out. They've had a couple of devastating events there like a tsunami and a nuclear situation.
 

vodkazvictim

Why save the world, when you can rule it?
Oddly, I get angry when the REST OF THE WORLD makes generalizations about the US. Love ya.

H
How is this odd?
It is entirely natural to object to having generalisations made about your country, especially by those who have never been to the country in question.
Well the Goths brought down the Roman Empire, so they have that to answer for.
So, you're saying that we should continue to punish the Germans for the actions of Hitler and the Hitlerites?
The capitalist model is resilient to change. Markets go up and down. The private market reacts better to change than government. The people don't have to wait for policy to decide what to do with their money. I gave you the numbers. Private firms paid back and government ones didn't. They all got into the same troubles for the same reasons.

The auto bailout? Well, at average $70 per hour and $26 hour to start, something had to give or lose 3 million of these jobs. Was it worth the money? Japan will find out their way to get out. They've had a couple of devastating events there like a tsunami and a nuclear situation.
The Capitalist model is resilient to change? We don't even live within Capitalist societies which is why the banks got their bailouts.
The private market flops, which is why the banks needed their bailouts.

The private ones would choose not to pay if they could. Leave it to the market to control things and they wouldn't.
If the private banks were so good, then why did they need government support? Capitalism can produce vast wealth quickly, but is inherantly unstable. Only stable growth can produce the best results. Socialism provides that while Capitalism does not.

I'm afraid I can't speak much on the auto bailout, other than to say that I'm not aware of anyone outside america who regards american cars as teh best.
Japan's been bumping along the bottom for 20 years. Isn't doing the same thing (Capitalism) and expecting a different result (get out of financial paralysis) one definition of insanity?
 

bobjustbob

Proud member of FreeOnes Hall Of Fame. Retired to
The bail outs are loans paid back with interest. The privates scaled back and re tuned their operations quickly to pay back the loans. The government makes a profit from this. That saved jobs and allowed lending institutions to continue doing business. They all had a choice to shut down or default but who ultimately defaulted? The community banks and federal institutions that only came into existence from handout money that created them.

We teach our kids this stuff when they are young. Hand kids money whenever they want it and the will always expect it. When you cut them back they think it's not fair. Make them work for their money and they will learn to budget it and develop a work ethic.
 

vodkazvictim

Why save the world, when you can rule it?
The bail outs are loans paid back with interest. The privates scaled back and re tuned their operations quickly to pay back the loans. The government makes a profit from this. That saved jobs and allowed lending institutions to continue doing business. They all had a choice to shut down or default but who ultimately defaulted? The community banks and federal institutions that only came into existence from handout money that created them.
If the privates were as efficient as you suggest then they would never have needed the loans. Under a truly Capitalist system they would not have survived. Capitalism is not a viable long term system.
Capitalism continually attacks jobs. The logic always being that you can hire less people to do more and nothing will go wrong. It goes wrong every time.

So they defaulted. The fact remains that the privates wouldn't have survived without support. So what we conclude from this is that the crisis of Capitalism destroys all the banks, private or not unless they get support, which isn't Capitalistic.
Talking of work ethic, you do realise that the bankers and leading capitalists have been busily screwing the hard working poor (the lifeblood of the nation) out of what little they can earn? That destroys their work ethic. Is it any wonder that productivity is falling? If you look after the workers, they work harder and the country prospers.

So, you do have a point that only the private banks paid back. You have a point on this one issue. Now let me put to you the following examples of workers ownership and the Soviet Union being employed to produce superior products to Capitalism.

1: The T34 was produced by the Soviet Union. It's widely acknowledged to be the best tank of WW2.

2: The AK47 followed shortly afterwards. Since 1947 the AK47 and it's variants, eg AK74 (same basic model) has been the premier firearm in the world. More AK models exist than any other weapon. And it isn't just because they're illegally copied for free in the 3rd world (People could copy M16s after all, and DO copy MP5s)
It's because they work. The AK47 is a byword for reliability and whereas NATO firearms draw criticism for their small round, the 7.62 AK47 round is low powered enough to fire (unlike 7.62 NATO) in a rifleman role, it will knock a man out of the fight temporarily even if it doesn't penetrate body armour (remember that 5.56 NATO is widely derided for lacking power).
The AK model served before the M14 that was replaced by the M16 and outserved the original M16.
The american army has attempted multiple times to replace the M16. Each time has cost a pretty penny, yet failed.
The Russian army still uses an AK pattern rifle. In fact, a derivative of their current main service rifle (AK74) that uses the same ammunition currently serves as a PDW. It is in fact smaller than the FN P90 PDW - which uses different ammunition (but of a similar size) to the M16 family.
Since Russia became officially Capitalist she has attempted to replace the AK pattern rifles produced under the Soviet Union. Those AK pattern rifles still serve.
Why? because false though the Soviet Union was, it's Socialist influence produced superior products to Capitalism.

3: Since the introduction of the current american tank, the M1 abrams, their have been 3 seperate attempts to develop a barrel launched anti tank guided missile for it, which would allow it to engage enemy MBTs at extreme range.
Attempt 1 cost a pretty penny, but failed to produce a result.
Attempt 2 cost a pretty penny, but failed to produce a result.
Attempt 3 cost a pretty penny, but failed to produce a result.
Meanwhile, while the american army and the Capitalist system was sleeping, the Soviet Union enabled all it's MBTs to barrel launch Anti tank Guided Missiles to enable them to engage enemy MBTs (not unlike the M1 abrams) from extreme range. this means that tanks built in the Soviet Union can destroy an M1 before the M1 even gets within range to fire upon them. Why? because false though the Soviet Union was, it's Socialist influence produced superior products to Capitalism.

4: When a war that threatens the nation itself is on, survival comes before profit, in that situation, Keynesian economics is utilised to provide maximum productivity. Why? Because Capitalism isn't the most efficient system.

5: When a business is failing due to the inneficiencies of Capitalist style leadership, if the business is necessary to the health of the nation, it is nationalised and placed under workers control to rescue it.
Why? because the workers know what's best and the bosses blindly pursue profit, which leads to the downfall of the business.
Examples include British rail and Hawker Siddeley. Which produced the venerable Harrier.

6: During the 70s (I think) Capitalism underwent a financial crisis (as it does, every 20 or so years, unstable system that it is).
During this time america had to limit her production and flights of her F4 phantoms. The Soviet Union was suffering no such crisis and even upped production of their competing MiG27, just to make a point.

7: When Germany unified, it test flew it's MiG29's against (equivelant) F16s. The result? In a dogfight scenario. the MiG29 had the advantage.
Why? Because it had an off-boresight targetting system that the F16s didn't.
The Su27 also had such a system. It's equivelant F14s and F15s lacked the system. meaning that should the cold war have gone hot, experienced Soviet pilots would have been able to degenerate combat into a WVR dogfight (see the failure of the BVR centric Phatom during Vietnam) most of the time and then use their off boresight targetting system to win the battle.
Why? because false though the Soviet Union was, it's Socialist influence produced superior products to Capitalism.

8: How long does a TV last? Or a computer? About 5 years, right? What about a phone? Maybe one year. Why? Because they're built to break (this is referred to as built in obsolessence and is taught in many engineering courses).
The result is that people are supplied with sub-par products and the environment destroyed so that corporations can profit. However, it doesn't matter how much they profit; their inherantly unstable Capitalist model always leads them to fail (hence bank and auto bailouts).
My Georgian teacher in Russia told me how her Soviet television lasted 20 years and yet under Capitalism she has to buy a new TV every 5. "And we thought things would be better under Capitalism".
Why? because false though the Soviet Union was, it's Socialist influence produced superior products to Capitalism.


9: Capitalism supplies the goods only when there is no alternative. It's standard route is to charge more and supply less, if anything at all.
We teach our kids this stuff when they are young. Hand kids money whenever they want it and the will always expect it. When you cut them back they think it's not fair. Make them work for their money and they will learn to budget it and develop a work ethic.
But corporations don't learn to budget, do they? They always end up relying on the public purse.
 

Mr. Daystar

In a bell tower, watching you through cross hairs.
2: The AK47 followed shortly afterwards. Since 1947 the AK47 and it's variants, eg AK74 (same basic model) has been the premier firearm in the world. More AK models exist than any other weapon. And it isn't just because they're illegally copied for free in the 3rd world (People could copy M16s after all, and DO copy MP5s)
It's because they work. The AK47 is a byword for reliability and whereas NATO firearms draw criticism for their small round, the 7.62 AK47 round is low powered enough to fire (unlike 7.62 NATO) in a rifleman role, it will knock a man out of the fight temporarily even if it doesn't penetrate body armour (remember that 5.56 NATO is widely derided for lacking power).
The AK model served before the M14 that was replaced by the M16 and outserved the original M16.
The american army has attempted multiple times to replace the M16. Each time has cost a pretty penny, yet failed.
The Russian army still uses an AK pattern rifle. In fact, a derivative of their current main service rifle (AK74) that uses the same ammunition currently serves as a PDW. It is in fact smaller than the FN P90 PDW - which uses different ammunition (but of a similar size) to the M16 family.
Since Russia became officially Capitalist she has attempted to replace the AK pattern rifles produced under the Soviet Union. Those AK pattern rifles still serve.
Why? because false though the Soviet Union was, it's Socialist influence produced superior products to Capitalism.

The AK74 fires a round much more similar to the M16 round. It's not a .30 caliber round. The Middle East is flooded with AK's, because when Regan crippled Russia's economy, they sold off all of their excess arms to third world countries. They shipped a whole AK47 factory to Egypt...including QC personal to assure quality. In fact, the last of the TRUE Russian AK's are known as Mata's, if you find one of these at a gun show, jump on it...it's about the best you will ever get, outside of one directly from Russia. The U.S. military has been bringing the M14 back in some instances, and many special forces units use it for a sniper rifle. They have new variants, that utilize a pistol grip/adjustable stock set up, like most current military rifles. The main problem with the M16 isn't the power of the round, as much as the operating system. If it were a gas piston operation, as opposed to a direct blow back, it would be more efficient. That's why the military switched to 62 grn rounds, instead of the old 55grn rounds. The longer the bullet stays in the barrel, the better it works. The reality is, it would be impossible to retool an M16 to fire a 7.62x51 round, however they did try to retool for a 6.2x45, and it was not cost effective, although Bushmaster offers a conversion for their rifles. What they need to do, is accept it's going to be needed, and accept they need to spend the cash, and switch back to the .30 caliber round, in a gas piston operated, AR10 platform. In a perfect world, the military would strike a deal with a company, and return M16's to companies, allow them to refurbish, and re work them into semi auto only rifles, to sell in the civilian market, and get a credit for each rifle, to use towards a new .30 caliber rifle.
 

bobjustbob

Proud member of FreeOnes Hall Of Fame. Retired to
Besides vodka and guns, what do they manufacture and export of any quality? What Russian made products can be found in households outside of the former soviet block? Russian products are garbage and no one wants to buy them. If they didn't allow imports they would still be standing on lines for toilet paper(that was just a little over 20 years ago.) Don't you remember that their 12 and 5 year planned economy was a failure? Here's how it worked. The government planned 500 cars to come out of a plant in a month. The government doesn't ship all of the parts to the factory for the first 2 weeks and the plant sits idle. Paying people to sit on their asses and wait. When the parts come their is a mad rush to make the 500 car quota and they are made shoddy. Don't believe it? Look up Shturmovshchina. This happened with all consumer goods in Russia. They were rationed including food.

Understand what banks do, they lend money. If there were no loans then we would all have to save for the full prices of everything. Cars, houses, the refrigerator or furnace that suddenly broke down. Replace old equipment for my business. You want the government to take over lending? I already showed you that the government institutions collapsed and defaulted. So by your terms the government takes over all car loans and mortgages and business lending. When people default the government now owns all of this property. Does your new government now have a bureau that sells used cars and store fixtures?

And what if I default on a loan? Is the government ready to hand me more money? A waiting period? 3 strikes and no more loans? With private banking I can find someone else with terms we can both agree to. Loans are as capitalistic as it comes be it for cars or businesses or banks. Government loans to businesses all of the time. Why not to a bank? They are a business.

True that the best taken care of employees stay the longest. Not every business can support the expected lifestyles you think they all deserve. Pumping gas for 20 years does not command a comfortable retirement. You're pumping the same amount of gas per week after 20 years as you did in your first month.
 
I've had the privilege to visit France 3 times in the span of 2 years. Their system definitely seems the most efficient. Healthcare should be seen as a public interest, and not solely run for-profit. A person who acquires a sickness that he or she never asked for should not and cannot be treated as if he/she asked for it and has to suffer the financial consequences if he/she has no money to pay for treatment. That's an injustice. And it's because of such an injustice why people call and hope for government intervention.
 

georges

Moderator
Staff member
If the privates were as efficient as you suggest then they would never have needed the loans. Under a truly Capitalist system they would not have survived. Capitalism is not a viable long term system.
Capitalism continually attacks jobs. The logic always being that you can hire less people to do more and nothing will go wrong. It goes wrong every time.

So they defaulted. The fact remains that the privates wouldn't have survived without support. So what we conclude from this is that the crisis of Capitalism destroys all the banks, private or not unless they get support, which isn't Capitalistic.
Talking of work ethic, you do realise that the bankers and leading capitalists have been busily screwing the hard working poor (the lifeblood of the nation) out of what little they can earn? That destroys their work ethic. Is it any wonder that productivity is falling? If you look after the workers, they work harder and the country prospers.

So, you do have a point that only the private banks paid back. You have a point on this one issue. Now let me put to you the following examples of workers ownership and the Soviet Union being employed to produce superior products to Capitalism.

1: The T34 was produced by the Soviet Union. It's widely acknowledged to be the best tank of WW2.

2: The AK47 followed shortly afterwards. Since 1947 the AK47 and it's variants, eg AK74 (same basic model) has been the premier firearm in the world. More AK models exist than any other weapon. And it isn't just because they're illegally copied for free in the 3rd world (People could copy M16s after all, and DO copy MP5s)
It's because they work. The AK47 is a byword for reliability and whereas NATO firearms draw criticism for their small round, the 7.62 AK47 round is low powered enough to fire (unlike 7.62 NATO) in a rifleman role, it will knock a man out of the fight temporarily even if it doesn't penetrate body armour (remember that 5.56 NATO is widely derided for lacking power).
The AK model served before the M14 that was replaced by the M16 and outserved the original M16.
The american army has attempted multiple times to replace the M16. Each time has cost a pretty penny, yet failed.
The Russian army still uses an AK pattern rifle. In fact, a derivative of their current main service rifle (AK74) that uses the same ammunition currently serves as a PDW. It is in fact smaller than the FN P90 PDW - which uses different ammunition (but of a similar size) to the M16 family.
Since Russia became officially Capitalist she has attempted to replace the AK pattern rifles produced under the Soviet Union. Those AK pattern rifles still serve.
Why? because false though the Soviet Union was, it's Socialist influence produced superior products to Capitalism.

3: Since the introduction of the current american tank, the M1 abrams, their have been 3 seperate attempts to develop a barrel launched anti tank guided missile for it, which would allow it to engage enemy MBTs at extreme range.
Attempt 1 cost a pretty penny, but failed to produce a result.
Attempt 2 cost a pretty penny, but failed to produce a result.
Attempt 3 cost a pretty penny, but failed to produce a result.
Meanwhile, while the american army and the Capitalist system was sleeping, the Soviet Union enabled all it's MBTs to barrel launch Anti tank Guided Missiles to enable them to engage enemy MBTs (not unlike the M1 abrams) from extreme range. this means that tanks built in the Soviet Union can destroy an M1 before the M1 even gets within range to fire upon them. Why? because false though the Soviet Union was, it's Socialist influence produced superior products to Capitalism.

4: When a war that threatens the nation itself is on, survival comes before profit, in that situation, Keynesian economics is utilised to provide maximum productivity. Why? Because Capitalism isn't the most efficient system.

5: When a business is failing due to the inneficiencies of Capitalist style leadership, if the business is necessary to the health of the nation, it is nationalised and placed under workers control to rescue it.
Why? because the workers know what's best and the bosses blindly pursue profit, which leads to the downfall of the business.
Examples include British rail and Hawker Siddeley. Which produced the venerable Harrier.

6: During the 70s (I think) Capitalism underwent a financial crisis (as it does, every 20 or so years, unstable system that it is).
During this time america had to limit her production and flights of her F4 phantoms. The Soviet Union was suffering no such crisis and even upped production of their competing MiG27, just to make a point.

7: When Germany unified, it test flew it's MiG29's against (equivelant) F16s. The result? In a dogfight scenario. the MiG29 had the advantage.
Why? Because it had an off-boresight targetting system that the F16s didn't.
The Su27 also had such a system. It's equivelant F14s and F15s lacked the system. meaning that should the cold war have gone hot, experienced Soviet pilots would have been able to degenerate combat into a WVR dogfight (see the failure of the BVR centric Phatom during Vietnam) most of the time and then use their off boresight targetting system to win the battle.
Why? because false though the Soviet Union was, it's Socialist influence produced superior products to Capitalism.

8: How long does a TV last? Or a computer? About 5 years, right? What about a phone? Maybe one year. Why? Because they're built to break (this is referred to as built in obsolessence and is taught in many engineering courses).
The result is that people are supplied with sub-par products and the environment destroyed so that corporations can profit. However, it doesn't matter how much they profit; their inherantly unstable Capitalist model always leads them to fail (hence bank and auto bailouts).
My Georgian teacher in Russia told me how her Soviet television lasted 20 years and yet under Capitalism she has to buy a new TV every 5. "And we thought things would be better under Capitalism".
Why? because false though the Soviet Union was, it's Socialist influence produced superior products to Capitalism.


9: Capitalism supplies the goods only when there is no alternative. It's standard route is to charge more and supply less, if anything at all.

But corporations don't learn to budget, do they? They always end up relying on the public purse.

1) The best heavy tank ever made was the german made Tiger and its sucessor the Tiger II, it is with this tank that the ace Michael Wittmann destroyed over a hundred of ennemy tanks and over four hundred allied vehicles. The t324 had one advantage which was that it was built in huge quantities but technically it wasn't par with a Panther or a Tiger german heavy tank

2) The AK 47 and AK 74 are very robust, none discuss that but they have a very mediocre accuracy. The m14 is back in this variant http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mk_14_Enhanced_Battle_Rifle There is also a sniper variant of it http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M39_Enhanced_Marksman_Rifle and it will be soon replaced by the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M110_Semi-Automatic_Sniper_System. Don't forget the FN SCAR http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FN_SCAR. Also these weapons are superior to your soviet era made AK and have a far technologically advanced way of manufacturing and use better materials in their construction. I could quote you the galil http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IMI_Galil perhaps one of the finest assault rifles ever made, available in 5.556 ss 109 and 7.62*51 nato and which is a far better and far more accurate rifle than any AK


3) About the Abrams http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1_Abrams#Future , it is one of the most solid and versatile tanks ever made, it has seen several fronts and it has done pretty well against ennemy main battle tanks. The russian still use an outdated t90 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T-90. The only tanks that match the Abrams are the british Challenger II http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Challenger_2 and the german Leopard II A 5 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leopard_2.

5) Socialism is the equal distribution of misery and dumbing down of the society. Are Russians living better now than they used to after the fall of wall? Not, really.

7) The F-15 in all air forces had a combined air-to-air combat record of 104 kills to 0 losses as of February 2008.[65] No air superiority versions of the F-15 (A/B/C/D models) have been shot down by enemy forces. Over half of F-15 kills were achieved by Israeli Air Force pilots. The strike eagle was used with success in the first and the second gulf war and for the note the f 16 falcon.

The F-15E retains an air superiority capability and adds systems, such as advanced imaging and targeting systems, to meet the requirement for all-weather, deep penetration, and night/under-the-weather, air-to-surface attack. Configured with conformal fuel tanks (CFTs), the F-15E deploys worldwide with minimal tanker support and arrives combat-ready. During the Balkan conflict, the F-15E was the only fighter able to attack ground targets around the clock [the F-117 only flew at night], in all weather conditions. The F-15E fleet continued to provide support for on-going operations in Afghanistan and Iraq. The F-15E performed superbly in Operations DESERT STORM, OAF, OEF and OIF. In 2009, F-15Es delivered 54% of the 2000lb JDAMs and 29% of the 500lb JDAMs employed in that area of operations. However the The US Air Force claims the F-15C is in several respects inferior to, or at best equal to, the MiG-29, Su-27, Su-35/37, Rafale, and EF-2000, which are variously superior in acceleration, maneuverability, engine thrust, rate of climb, avionics, firepower, radar signature, or range. Although the F-15C and Su-27P series are similar in many categories, the Su-27 can outperform the F-15C at both long and short ranges. In long-range encounters, with its superior radar, the Su-27 can launch a missile before the F-15C does, so from a purely kinematic standpoint, the Russian fighters outperform the F-15C in the beyond-visual-range fight. The Su-35 phased array radar is superior to the APG-63 Doppler radar in both detection range and tracking capabilities. A few F-15Cs are equipped with the APG-63(V2) Active Electronic Scanned Array (AESA) radar and Fighter Data Link (FDL). Additionally, the Su-35 propulsion system increases the aircraft's maneuverability with thrust vectoring nozzles. Simulations conducted by British Aerospace and the British Defense Research Agency compared the effectiveness of the F-15C, Rafale, EF-2000, and F-22 against the Russian Su-35 armed with active radar missiles similar to the AIM-120 Advanced Medium Range Air-to-Air Missile (AMRAAM). The Rafale achieved a 1:1 kill ratio (1 Su-35 destroyed for each Rafale lost). The EF-2000 kill ratio was 4.5:1 while the F-22 achieved a ratio of 10:1. In stark contrast was the F-15C, losing 1.3 Eagles for each Su-35 destroyed.
The Eurofighter is also a proof of European beating Russians and Americans in terms of plane manufacturing http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eurofighter_Typhoon
The Luftwaffe who used to flight Mig 29s has sold them out to eastern soviet republics and instead of that kept its F 4s, its Tornados and bought alongwith UK, Italy and Spain, the Eurofighter.

8) A low definition TV will never match a big name hi definition plasma TV. That is like watches when you compare soviet made era crap watches to a swiss made watches
 

Mr. Daystar

In a bell tower, watching you through cross hairs.
Besides vodka and guns, what do they manufacture and export of any quality?

In reality, you will find very few Russian made AK47's around the U.S. are either from a Com block country, the Middle East, or China. They really only sold them in bulk, to countries.
 
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