Had the Times Square bomb detonated . . .

[Legzman]

These guys are pretty sharp! lesstheir bomb making skills.

Yet we train troops in Iraq. Whats to stop one of those crazy Iraqi's from learning from an american demolitions expert?

 

[titsrock]

Point well taken, the only hiccup is that you're asking human beings to act peaceful, which really hasn't happened throughout the whole of history. To my mind the best path to "peace" is through democracy. While a lot of people contend that democracies don't always act in a peaceful manner, I would posit that democracies tend to be peaceful with one another, and the only reason that democracies are militant towards certain non-democratic entities is for the simple fact that they (NDs) do not respect the rule of law and governance, thus the only way to compel NDs is through force. If we as a Western world are intent on the rule of law, and survival as a collection of states, we must promote and further the cause of democracy. :2 cents:

The problem with Democracy (at least America's form of Democracy) is that is has evolved into nothing more than a power scheme for the corporate powers and "the rich" to consolidate power/influence. The Dems have become the party of the GOP appeaser and the GOP are the party of NO...not to mention the Constitution was written when men wore makeup and wigs and ran around with muskets and flint-lock pistols...

Therefore, our Democracy doesn't let other people live in freedom, we have to make other people conform to our version of freedom, which is normally built on a platform of opening up some "market" or exploiting somebody's natural resources.

Democracy is not the only form of rule, and we should be willing to leave other people alone, confident that we are correct. :dunno:

We used to be "against Communism" but that is now not the case since we are the economic bitch of the most powerful economic nation on the planet (China) and we also trade with every other Communist country except, for some reason, Cuba?

Why do we feel the need to beat on our chests and and shove our Democracy and values down the throats of other countries? :dunno: Especially when we have our own education, poverty, healthcare, food, infrastructure problems...

It's time for a return to Isolationism and a reliance on the United Nations to be the world's referee and police keeper. :yesyes:

 

[Bloodshot Scott]

Yet we train troops in Iraq. Whats to stop one of those crazy Iraqi's from learning from an american demolitions expert?

I think our guys just go out and wait to get ambushed (military guys correct me if I'm wrong). My sister's ex lost his leg in Iraq to an assault rifle shot. He was troop leader and everything. Smart kid. Spoke fluent German. I have to only imagine if they just drive around waiting to get ambushed how RETARDED a philosophy that is. But of course, I don't know military strategy; nor did I go to West Point.

 

[Trident1]

It's time for a return to Isolationism and a reliance on the United Nations to be the world's referee and police keeper. :yesyes:

:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh


I'm moving to Mars.

 

[Bloodshot Scott]

:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh


I'm moving to Mars.

I don't think we need a United Nations type deal (nor do I even favor being in the UN). I think we can be isolationists - pure, true isolationistis like Dr. Ron Paul - and still be an afluent nation.

 

[Trident1]

I don't think we need a United Nations type deal (nor do I even favor being in the UN). I think we can be isolationists - pure, true isolationistis like Dr. Ron Paul - and still be an afluent nation.

We haven't been isolationist since 1939. There's no going back fellas so pull your heads out of the proverbial sand.
Our country's future depends on our involvement in world affairs like it or not.

 

[LaLiLuLeLohan]

We haven't been isolationist since 1939. There's no going back fellas so pull your heads out of the proverbial sand.
Our country's future depends on our involvement in world affairs like it or not.

Nope. We could conduct trade and stay out of domestic affairs just fine if we wanted to. Dozens of nations in S.America, Asia, Africa and Europe do it every day.

But if you like the idea of borrowing trillions to fight wars, this argument can't be won by reasonable minds.

 

[emceeemcee]

There's no going back fellas so pull your heads out of the proverbial sand.

It's quite scarey that there are Americans out there like Trident who want the US to continue down this maniacal path of endless occupation of other countries, seemingly ignoring the unbelievable financial debt it incurs and the endless rise in hatred and militancy towards the United States that it produces.

Talking about losing the plot. These folk have been driven insane by war. They would soon their country collapse then admit that their way was the wrong way. Evidence, reason and logic take a back seat to conviction and self righteousness.

 

[Bloodshot Scott]

We haven't been isolationist since 1939. There's no going back fellas so pull your heads out of the proverbial sand.
Our country's future depends on our involvement in world affairs like it or not.

There is no going back because our elected people are apparent on not letting it happen. How many dipshits do we have in Germany? How many in South Korea? Jesus, let's move on.

Nope. We could conduct trade and stay out of domestic affairs just fine if we wanted to. Dozens of nations in S.America, Asia, Africa and Europe do it every day.

But if you like the idea of borrowing trillions to fight wars, this argument can't be won by reasonable minds.

Yes, I don't think this is unreasonable or unrealistic to accomplish.

It's quite scarey that there are Americans out there like Trident who want the US to continue down this maniacal path of endless occupation of other countries, seemingly ignoring the unbelievable financial debt it incurs and the endless rise in hatred and militancy towards the United States that it produces.

Talking about losing the plot. These folk have been driven insane by war. They would soon their country collapse then admit that their way was the wrong way. Evidence, reason and logic take a back seat to conviction and self righteousness.

Although my above comments sort of agree with this, would you've rather the U.S. stayed out of/not enacted "D-Day"? When the time is right, our nation should not be pussies, but I see our "isolationism" as a good thing... right now. :2 cents:

 

[emceeemcee]

Although my above comments sort of agree with this, would you've rather the U.S. stayed out of/not enacted "D-Day"? When the time is right, our nation should not be pussies, but I see our "isolationism" as a good thing... right now. :2 cents:

First off, I'm not one who cares much for conflating WWII with 9/11. The war between fundamentalist muslims and the US was not initiated by that event, the US government was a participant in the cycle of middle eastern violence which preceeded it. It was civilians who paid the price for that though (as usual)

Secondly, there was an appropriate response to 9/11. It didn't necessarily have to involve the measures that have been taken which have been inefficient, costly and completly counterproductive.

I see isolationism as an absolute, the other end of the spectrum to the neocons endless interventionism. There are some military interventions that I believe are worthwhile and can save lives. Interventions which are based on nothing more than revenge, greed, general ignorance of world affairs and which disregard the UN charter, are always going to be doomed so that gives a pretty good rule of thumb when deciding where to send our armies.

 

[Bloodshot Scott]

First off, I'm not one who cares much for conflating WWII with 9/11. The war between fundamentalist muslims and the US was not initiated by that event, the US government was a participant in the cycle of middle eastern violence which preceeded it. It was civilians who paid the price for that though (as usual)

Secondly, there was an appropriate response to 9/11. It didn't necessarily have to involve the measures that have been taken which have been inefficient, costly and completly counterproductive.

I see isolationism as an absolute, the other end of the spectrum to the neocons endless interventionism. There are some military interventions that I believe are worthwhile and can save lives. Interventions which are based on nothing more than revenge, greed, general ignorance of world affairs and which disregard the UN charter, are always going to be doomed so that gives a pretty good rule of thumb when deciding where to send our armies.

Eh, there's the "cultural relativism" thing. Even my African history professor (white Irishman who'd spent decades living on the continent) didn't know what to do about Darfur.

 

[Trident1]

Isolationism led to appeasement which saw Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan go on a rampage.

Sorry folks we're always going to be involved. It's a legacy of our Cold War mission now adapted to today's reality of confronting rogue regimes and islamic terrorism.

 

[vodkazvictim]

There is also a link between terrorists and countries affected directly by American foreign policy. Most radicals are from the middle east as well as the Sudan, Afghanistan and Pakistan where there is direct interference and military campaigns from America. However you hardly ever hear of radicals from Bosnia, Turkey, Somalia or Ethiopia as you say which has over 30 million muslims as the US has not imposed themselves on these countries (probably due to the lack of oil and other valuable resources). I guess the lesson is leave people alone and they'll do likewise, step on other peoples turf and it'll come back to bite you in the ass. :ak47:

Thank you

Exactly, and it's citizen joe minding his own business on the way to work who pays the price, not the politicians who make these insane foreign policy decisions.

Correct.

Just because an organisation is classed as a terrorist group doesn't always make them one, the word terrorist and insurgents has lost all meaning as the US uses it to describe anyone they see as a threat. When they helped the radicals in Afghanistan fight the Soviets in the 80s the US called them Mujahadeen Freedom Fighters fighting against Soviet oppression, then suddenly overnight when they turned on the US the same guys become Al-Queda and Islamic Fundamentalists or Radicals of whatever the state department wants to label them. I don't actually think that the US ever officially labelled the IRA as a terrorist group as due to the strong Irish presence in the US saw them as freedom fighters. You'll find a lot of these 'terrorist' groups are just fighting to get foreign troops off their soil, we would have done the same if the Germans invaded in WW2 and the US would have done the same if the Japanese troops had landed on US soil, to me they are freedom fighters. Also the PKK are fighting for Kurdish independence and not for religious ideology, their victims in Turkey and Iraq are muslims as well.

Not to mention the fact that many americans funded the I.R.A.s acts of terrorism against the English... That will never come back to bite them in the arse...

The problem with Democracy (at least America's form of Democracy) is that is has evolved into nothing more than a power scheme for the corporate powers and "the rich" to consolidate power/influence. The Dems have become the party of the GOP appeaser and the GOP are the party of NO...not to mention the Constitution was written when men wore makeup and wigs and ran around with muskets and flint-lock pistols...

Therefore, our Democracy doesn't let other people live in freedom, we have to make other people conform to our version of freedom, which is normally built on a platform of opening up some "market" or exploiting somebody's natural resources.

Democracy is not the only form of rule, and we should be willing to leave other people alone, confident that we are correct. :dunno:

We used to be "against Communism" but that is now not the case since we are the economic bitch of the most powerful economic nation on the planet (China) and we also trade with every other Communist country except, for some reason, Cuba?

Why do we feel the need to beat on our chests and and shove our Democracy and values down the throats of other countries? :dunno: Especially when we have our own education, poverty, healthcare, food, infrastructure problems...

It's time for a return to Isolationism and a reliance on the United Nations to be the world's referee and police keeper. :yesyes:

Democracy doesn't seem to be working in England and america right now.
I don't think the majority of the population in either country wanted anything that happened recently.

It's quite scarey that there are Americans out there like Trident who want the US to continue down this maniacal path of endless occupation of other countries, seemingly ignoring the unbelievable financial debt it incurs and the endless rise in hatred and militancy towards the United States that it produces.

Talking about losing the plot. These folk have been driven insane by war. They would soon their country collapse then admit that their way was the wrong way. Evidence, reason and logic take a back seat to conviction and self righteousness.

Talk about not learning from your mistakes.
America is falling, every empire before them has.
Although the Greeks, Romans, English and practically every other empire before them could at least justify themselves as empires by collonising other countries.

 

[Trident1]

Not to mention the fact that many americans funded the I.R.A.s acts of terrorism against the English... That will never come back to bite them in the arse...






America is falling, every empire before them has.
.

What the Irish Americans around the Boston area? Yeah they really kept the IRA going.

Libya sent more aid to the IRA than anyone else.


We're falling? Since when are we an Empire?

Ooooh let me guess we're hand in hand with Roman history at the time of Elagabalus. Oh NOOOOOOOOO!!!!

 

[Facetious]

It's quite scarey that there are Americans out there like Trident who want the US to continue down this maniacal path of endless occupation of other countries, seemingly ignoring the unbelievable financial debt it incurs and the endless rise in hatred and militancy towards the United States that it produces.

Talking about losing the plot. These folk have been driven insane by war. They would soon their country collapse then admit that their way was the wrong way. Evidence, reason and logic take a back seat to conviction and self righteousness.

How about that, identical to the fatherless and very much brainwashed che guevara praising revolutionary twentysomethings.

 

[ajitpd]

Full Story

Could you imagine 2,3,4 or more city blocks covered with glass and dismembered people . . . oh, and blood steadily flowing down the curbside? Talk about using resources to their maximum potential! These guys are pretty sharp! lesstheir bomb making skills.

It didn't detonate. That's an argument starter an optimist should hope for. Anyways, Faisal Shehzad is commonly known as "stupid terrorist" in his country of origin. Let's hope all terrorists get even stupider. It could save a lot of money that's spent on security and make life easier for innocent people who have to strip down their civil liberties in the name of security.

 

[Trident1]

How about that, identical to the fatherless and very much brainwashed che guevara praising revolutionary twentysomethings.

The isolationists would have us give up in the face of evil and abandon all our allies to satiate their self hate.

 

[D-rock]

There are good reasons we can't just be isolationist. Things that happen around the world will affect us sooner or later. Somebody also needs to keep a check on China among others in the near future. They aren't going to be isolationist and in case you haven't noticed they aren't exactly the nicest country in the world. However, just because we shouldn't be pure isolationist doesn't mean we should be the world's policemen or send are troops all over the place for any semi-moderately large reason like we do now. Even if there is an actual strong need to do so how about we make the rest of the world contribute for once instead of doing everything for them. I bet a lot of those supposed isolationist countries would do a lot more if they didn't have the US practically doing their work for them.

 

[Facetious]

The problem with Democracy (at least America's form of Democracy) is that is has evolved into nothing more than a power scheme for the corporate powers and "the rich" to consolidate power/influence. The Dems have become the party of the GOP appeaser and the GOP are the party of NO...not to mention the Constitution was written when men wore makeup and wigs and ran around with muskets and flint-lock pistols...

Therefore, our Democracy doesn't let other people live in freedom, we have to make other people conform to our version of freedom, which is normally built on a platform of opening up some "market" or exploiting somebody's natural resources.

Democracy is not the only form of rule, and we should be willing to leave other people alone, confident that we are correct. :dunno:

We used to be "against Communism" but that is now not the case since we are the economic bitch of the most powerful economic nation on the planet (China) and we also trade with every other Communist country except, for some reason, Cuba?

Why do we feel the need to beat on our chests and and shove our Democracy and values down the throats of other countries? :dunno: Especially when we have our own education, poverty, healthcare, food, infrastructure problems...

It's time for a return to Isolationism and a reliance on the United Nations to be the world's referee and police keeper. :yesyes:

Where in the Constitution of the United States of America,
The Declaration of Independence or the Constitution of each of the individual
50 states does it say anything about a democracy?

 

[Hot Mega]

Where in the Constitution of the United States of America,
The Declaration of Independence or the Constitution of each of the individual
50 states does it say anything about a democracy?

It's implied by virtue of Article 1 and Article 4.

Article 4 guarantees a republican form of government...ergo, the supreme power rests within the vote of the people for a representative g'ment.:2 cents:

Popular vote=democracy.