I think that once Mubarak steps down, ElBaradei should form a caretaker government so that preparations can be made for new elections
Egypt: make your predictions
- Thread starter emceeemcee
- Start date
BioDefenseGrad
Banned
Foreign policy is inherantly self-serving. Muslims and Arab Muslims in particular have show that they don't give a damn about anyone but themselves and glory in the pain and suffering they've caused to the world.
Egypt was already hostile to non-Muslims (Including the U.S.) long before Mubarak was in power.
BioDefenseGrad
Banned
It depends on how much pull El Baradei has with the Egyptian people. He's been living in Vienna and has spent much of his career detached from the Egyptian people. Foreign governments would like to see him involved but who knows if their support will help or hurt him.
emceeemcee
Banned
Western powers have exhibited those traits on a much greater scale, particularly the USA over the past century.
How many wars has it launched? How many dictators in other countries did it help to prop up? How many tonnes of weapons did it channel to totalitarian regimes around the world?
Sounds like the usual apologetics we hear for the worst parts of America's foreign policy, 'Oh, they're just like that, it's in their nature etc..."
BioDefenseGrad
Banned
No not even close. America has been far more conciliatory than the other European powers.
As for the last century--Islam has a 1000 year headstart.
It depends-Authoritarian or Totalitarian?
And Saudi Arabia is sewing mayhem throughout the world in the name of Islam. Even in Europe.
What YOU sound like is the typical Muslim hypocrite who cries about what their enemy is doing yet won't face up to their own crimes.
And the killer is that you've been doing that throughout history.
You have one set of rules for Muslims and another for non-Muslims.
You deal with the leader you have not the one you want. The U.S. didn't install Mubarak after Sadat's assassination believe it or not. The U.S. has been calling for reforms from Mubarak since he took power almost thirty years ago but the U.S. cannot bring about these reforms only the Egyptian people themselves can do it which is what we are seeing happen now.
emceeemcee
Banned
I don't recall WWI and WWII being started by muslims. I also don't remember muslim countries consuming a majority of the earth's resources (aquired through force) and in the process releasing a shitload of pollution from those resources which now threaten the entire species while refusing to do anything about. In terms of destructiveness and greed, that little bit of history from the last 100 years alone trumps the damage Islam as done.
I don't even understand how your initial reply to me was even remotely related to what I was talking about. I suggested it was disingenuous for our politicians to justify their support for Mubarak on the basis that he was the least bad option when he clearly isn't, then you said muslims are selfish and cause heaps of shit around the world. Total non sequitur.
The charge of hypocrisy would mean something if it was coming from somebody who didn't just try and explain away anti-US sentiment amongst Egyptians as having more to do with their supposedly violent nature and not because of Uncle Sam's bankrolling of the torturer who has run the place for the last 30 years.
Do you suspect most people who disagree with you are muslims? :1orglaugh
Mayhem? I think you need to have a cup of tea or something. Or a Xanax and a little lie-down.
When Saudi Arabia start invading other countries in an orgy of resource colonialism let us know. So far they haven't been too successful at killing and torturing people outside of their own borders.
emceeemcee
Banned
Indeed, and you can either deal with him by supporting his opponents and inducing change with carrots and sticks
or you can shower him in 3 billion dollars a year while making anemic statements about the need to reform.
BioDefenseGrad
Banned
I don't recall WWI and WWII being started by muslims. I also don't remember muslim countries consuming a majority of the earth's resources (aquired through force) and in the process releasing a shitload of pollution from those resources which now threaten the entire species while refusing to do anything about. In terms of destructiveness and greed, that little bit of history from the last 100 years alone trumps the damage Islam as done.
^^^
Biggest load of bullshit right there. This history of Islam is one of conquest and destruction. If the Arabs had the technology, they would have done the EXACT same thing but with even less regard for others.
The difference between Western civilization and others is that the West actually wrote down and debates it's ugly past.
Once again though, the timeline stands. Islam has been attacking the non-Muslim world since day one. If Westerners are monsters, they learned from the worst of them all.
I don't even understand how your initial reply to me was even remotely related to what I was talking about. I suggested it was disingenuous for our politicians to justify their support for Mubarak on the basis that he was the least bad option when he clearly isn't, then you said muslims are selfish and cause heaps of shit around the world. Total non sequitur.
Nope. If you choose not to read that's not my fault. Read first, then reply.
The charge of hypocrisy would mean something if it was coming from somebody who didn't just try and explain away anti-US sentiment amongst Egyptians as having more to do with their supposedly violent nature and not because of Uncle Sam's bankrolling of the torturer who has run the place for the last 30 years.
Do you suspect most people who disagree with you are muslims? :1orglaugh
^^^
Even more laughable coming from YOU the guy who finds fault in America at all times unless it's bending over backward to do something for the Muslim world. WHY is a guy like the "torturer" put in place? And the hypocrisy of Egyptians is their tears about the humiliated and subjugated Muslim when they do the very same thing to non-Muslims and have done so from the very beginning until the present day. How many of those protesters have rioted when Copts want to build a new Church? How many of them have participated in pogroms against Copts?
Mayhem? I think you need to have a cup of tea or something. Or a Xanax and a little lie-down.
When Saudi Arabia start invading other countries in an orgy of resource colonialism let us know. So far they haven't been too successful at killing and torturing people outside of their own borders.
^^
The Saudis and the Arab Muslims have a history of colonialism that far exceeds European countries. You know the difference between them and the Europeans? They never left. The Europeans came for resources and were forced out by other Westerners after WWII.
The Muslims attacked, raped and forcibly converted their way across the midde east, into North Africa and Europe (some still think Spain belongs to them) into Persia and India. Southeast Asia faired much better but that doesn't stop your pious Malays and Indonesians from massacring hindus, Chinese and Christians.
That's why America props up a dictator like Mubarak. Because if left to their own devices Muslims have shown a long, long history of attacking any non-Muslims they can get their hands on.
BioDefenseGrad
Banned
The number keeps changing. Mubarak hated the money that the U.S. was giving Egypt for democratic reforms which he took because they were tied to the Military aid he was getting. He said it was causing unrest in his country.
So how anemic were those statements. But then again, why are we giving Egypt aid at all? America needs to run it's foreign policy by every Islamist, pan-Arab nationalist and Muslim before it pursues it right? And yeah it does go back to highlight Muslim hypocrisy, yet again. These folks have no problem telling the rest of the world what to do via suicide bomber or shooting or beheading. Muslims claim to be victims while ignoring their own atrocities.
The U.S. gave Egypt 1.5 billion in foreign aid. While this is a large amount it's not necessarily keeping Mubarak in power, if the U.S. were to scale back the amount nothing would really change in Egypt. And all the U.S can do is call for reform, what do you want them to do? Invade Egypt and take Mubarak out of office. The U.S. cannot bring reform to Egypt, only the Egyptian people themselves can do this.
vodkazvictim
Why save the world, when you can rule it?
I agree with him. For once.
:hit:
^^Agree again!
Those tanks may well be vulnerable to molotovs. I'm not familiar with F114s, do they exist? Perhaps you meant F111? Only Iran now operates F14s.
I'm so proud to be British
You wouldn't be trying to open his mind to a world other than the one he's decided is fact, are you? You wouldn't be presenting facts rather than biassed, basless statements would you?I don't recall WWI and WWII being started by muslims. I also don't remember muslim countries consuming a majority of the earth's resources (aquired through force) and in the process releasing a shitload of pollution from those resources which now threaten the entire species while refusing to do anything about. In terms of destructiveness and greed, that little bit of history from the last 100 years alone trumps the damage Islam as done.
I don't even understand how your initial reply to me was even remotely related to what I was talking about. I suggested it was disingenuous for our politicians to justify their support for Mubarak on the basis that he was the least bad option when he clearly isn't, then you said muslims are selfish and cause heaps of shit around the world. Total non sequitur.
The charge of hypocrisy would mean something if it was coming from somebody who didn't just try and explain away anti-US sentiment amongst Egyptians as having more to do with their supposedly violent nature and not because of Uncle Sam's bankrolling of the torturer who has run the place for the last 30 years.
Do you suspect most people who disagree with you are muslims? :1orglaugh
Mayhem? I think you need to have a cup of tea or something. Or a Xanax and a little lie-down.
When Saudi Arabia start invading other countries in an orgy of resource colonialism let us know. So far they haven't been too successful at killing and torturing people outside of their own borders.
You might as well speak to him in esperanto.
BioDefenseGrad
Banned
I agree with him. For once.
:hit:
^^Agree again!
Those tanks may well be vulnerable to molotovs. I'm not familiar with F114s, do they exist? Perhaps you meant F111? Only Iran now operates F14s.
I'm so proud to be British
You wouldn't be trying to open his mind to a world other than the one he's decided is fact, are you? You wouldn't be presenting facts rather than biassed, basless statements would you?
You Might as well speak to him in esperanto.
That's funny, I was challenging his narrative myself. The difference is I'm correct.
Having a stable non Islamist government serves a purpose for the entire Mid East.
Such a gov't is needed to keep good relations with Israel, and to maintain the Suez Canal.
Mubarak is a Cold War relic but he is one who kept Islamists at bay. The Brits and then Soviets did more damage to the average Egyptian than the U.S.
F-114s? What the.............
You mean F-16s.
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Completely backing the Egyptians here and their revolution.
If they manage that unthinkable task in authoritarian dictator-lead Arab world, they will yet again be spearheading future political developments and a beacon of light for all other Arabs, including myself.
Unfortunately, the way I see it is Muhammed Al Baradai being slowly positioned to take control, supported by the Egyptian Army.
It only serves to raise eyebrows that Egyptian Army, deloyed to oppose the protests and protect Mubarak, is being hailed as heros by the protestors, in sharp contrast to the riot police who were seen as enemies.
I highly doubt the Egyptian people will truely get their will at the end of this, just as most people in third world countries. Either the Pakistan/Taliban-sponsered Islamist puppets come to power, or a Western puppet (Baradai and/or old military) get control of the country.
It is the same with Iraq, except there the Iranians now pull the shots.
Neither option is ideal, but I am certain Baradai/the old Egyptian army will be much better than the foriegn Islamists. As for the indiginous Islamists (Muslim Brotherhood), they seem to be siding with Baradai and the West. It is those people who I think seem to have some of the strongest support with the Egyptian People.
In short - my prediction: Baradai et al will convince the Egyptian Military to side with them. Mubarak will flee - most likely to Saudi Arabia. Then a coalition of the old Egyptian Military and Baradai's coalition (including Muslim Brotherhood) will lead, maintaining a staunch pro-Western direction and close ties to the US and Europe.
It will take another 40 years or so till the next generations notice and try revolting again.
Mark my words on this porno website, my fellow perverts.
If they manage that unthinkable task in authoritarian dictator-lead Arab world, they will yet again be spearheading future political developments and a beacon of light for all other Arabs, including myself.
Unfortunately, the way I see it is Muhammed Al Baradai being slowly positioned to take control, supported by the Egyptian Army.
It only serves to raise eyebrows that Egyptian Army, deloyed to oppose the protests and protect Mubarak, is being hailed as heros by the protestors, in sharp contrast to the riot police who were seen as enemies.
I highly doubt the Egyptian people will truely get their will at the end of this, just as most people in third world countries. Either the Pakistan/Taliban-sponsered Islamist puppets come to power, or a Western puppet (Baradai and/or old military) get control of the country.
It is the same with Iraq, except there the Iranians now pull the shots.
Neither option is ideal, but I am certain Baradai/the old Egyptian army will be much better than the foriegn Islamists. As for the indiginous Islamists (Muslim Brotherhood), they seem to be siding with Baradai and the West. It is those people who I think seem to have some of the strongest support with the Egyptian People.
In short - my prediction: Baradai et al will convince the Egyptian Military to side with them. Mubarak will flee - most likely to Saudi Arabia. Then a coalition of the old Egyptian Military and Baradai's coalition (including Muslim Brotherhood) will lead, maintaining a staunch pro-Western direction and close ties to the US and Europe.
It will take another 40 years or so till the next generations notice and try revolting again.
Mark my words on this porno website, my fellow perverts.
this country has been circling the shitter ever since they allowed Sadat to be assassinated.
vodkazvictim
Why save the world, when you can rule it?
Are you saying that the will of the people is practiced here in the west?
emceeemcee
Banned
Yeah thanks for that little trip down memory lane there sport, but the fact of the matter is when comes to resource consumption, greed and body count, the Western world is unmatched.
My pious Malays? You are obviously just looking for someone to argue with about how Islam. I suggest you go find a Muslim, or a Malay seeing as that's the case. This thread was about Egyptians overthrowing their dictator before you started going off on a weird tangent and boring me to death with neocon talking points about Muslims.
Yes that's why Christians and Jews live alongside Palestinian, Jordanian, Egyptian, Syrian and Lebanese Muslims in their respective countries with relatively few problems.
You live in a neurotic world divorced from facts.
How come neocons always end up describing themselves in their own posts?
Anyway, I think you are just pissy because there has been a non violent, democratic overthrow of a dictator in a Muslim and Arab country. Kind of contradicts your neocon programming which tells you that Muslims and Arabs are nothing but savages who hate freedom. It must really grate you.
emceeemcee
Banned
yeah it was really stable wasn't it :1orglaugh
In case you've been under a rock for the past 4 days there has been a revolution going on in that country.
The Mubarak regime served the interests of Israel, the US and some European countries, not the entire Middle East. Obviously the interests of the actual populace of the middle east and what they want is irrelevant to your thinking when it comes to what is best for the ME, as they would all throw their leaders out tommorow if they could.
For people who care to disconnect their brains from the Fox news retardosphere, clearly there were more options available in Egypt other than just Islamic parties or tyrannical dictatorships.
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