Edward Snowden: The Hegelian Dialectic

[Rey C.]

/Edited for brevity/

While you may choose to lap up Snowden's words and explanation of his actions and believe every word (giving up superficially hot girlfriend + jr. partner salary = heart pure as gold?), I am not that naive. When the messenger is sitting in the home of my enemy, yes, I would see him vanquished. At that point, his location overshadows most everything else.

My life is in jeopardy, you say? Uh yes, it is. It has been since the day I was born. I am a mortal. I'm quite sure that everyone else on this board is too... including you. I understand the point you're attempting to make with that hyperbolic and melodramatic statement. But as I have written fairly frequently about my concerns on privacy issues (from the government and private sector) before, it's not as if this is my first rodeo. But is this an area where I would see myself as some sort of expert? No. And I have said as much. But to have someone such as yourself make wild assumptions about me or my (unknown) background, well, that suggests to me that you are prone to developing perceptions about all sorts of people that are not based on any sort objective data, but rather on what you *want* to believe. And a man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still. So I leave you to it.

At least from my perspective, I'll wrap this up for you. If our lives and liberties depend on the sad likes of Eddie Snowden, well, we're just about as fucked as we can be. That is my view and that is where I stand, no matter what his true (or make believe) motivations were. Is he all bad? Probably not - very few people are. But is he the exalted saint that you seem to believe him to be? *chuckle* Like I said, though born at night, I wasn't born last night. Your mileage may vary though.

 

[eric2136]

xfire- I don't mind helping the remedial, but I have no time to outright just babysit... all your answers are already provided in this thread thru outside sources which I can tell, because of the extreme dumbness of your questions, you obvioulsy haven't viewed . You want to ask me an educated question based on the material presented and not already answered elsewhere in this thread, then by all means be my guest, otherwise just stay in the back and take notes until you are up to speed.

Rey C. O'Reilly- Again, instead of trying to make the smart-ass "oh snap" response, why don't you man-up, put on your big boy pants, and get serious. You want to actually review all the materials provided and make an educated response then we can have a discussion. Again, I would choose to break bread with someone who sacrificed his life for me, over a coward any day. Our liberties DO depend on guys like Edward. Who else would they depend on ? Spineless fools like you who care more about fake tits then they do about freedom.

We have lost Constitutional rights, and we need to get them back before they are gone forever...so what is the course of action to get them back ? You clowns need to stop focussing so much on porn pussy that you'll never have, and actually try putting on your thinking caps for once.

 

[xfire]

xfire- I don't mind helping the remedial, but I have no time to outright just babysit... all your answers are already provided in this thread thru outside sources which I can tell, because of the extreme dumbness of your questions, you obvioulsy haven't viewed . You want to ask me an educated question based on the material presented and not already answered elsewhere in this thread, then by all means be my guest, otherwise just stay in the back and take notes until you are up to speed.

Thanks for resorting to name calling and personal attacks, it proves how shallow you are. These sort of conspiracy theories have been floated for decades and have been discussed to the point of absurdity, you don't like my take on it, too fucking bad. If you can't see beyond the current conspiracy flavor of the month and put it in historical context, that's a shortsightedness on your part. I have no intention of viewing your flood of videos, I don't need to, I've reviewed enough of this sort of shit in an academic setting to satiate any desire for further investigation. It's all the same recycled shit. Feel free to continue to don that tinfoil hat. One of these days you'll realize you're chasing a phantom tail, have fun in the interim.

 

[eric2136]

you don't like my take on it,

LOL you don't have a "take" on anything because you are obvioulsy too stupid and lazy too formulate a coherent opnion. Everyone from Congressman too major network TV analysts is discussing this situation and acknowledges its' overwhelming importance, so it is far from a conspiracy theory. You're just another gutless lazy coward afraid You Might learn something and might have to actually do something more in your life than jack-off ....LOL and people wonder how America got so fucked up...dim-witted sellout liars like you with no heart or backbone.

This thread is for the edification of people who may not know about these issues, may want to learn more thru videos and articles, and may want to comment or have an informed discussion as was suggested by both Snowden and President Obama. But since you already know everything about everything, then feel free to move on to the "Who's Tits are Bigger" thread...I'm sure that may be more your speed...

 

[xfire]

LOL you don't have a "take" on anything becau

Like I said, you don't like it too fucking bad.

You have yet to answer my question, who is "they"? I'm not wading through all of your stupid little videos to answer a question for you. And the more hateful and nasty you get the more it confirms how weak and shallow you are.

 

[Jack Davenport]

I started a thread about Snowden before this one without all the conspiracy

just sayin'

 

[eric2136]

And like I said, xfire, the videos and other information is here for you if you care enough to review the materials. If you don't care enough to do that, but you still have questions about the subject, then there isn't much I can do for you.

And BC there are no conspiracies here, only the words of Snowden and several commentators. Unless of course you are referring to Snowden himself and his life experiences at NSA as being a conspiracy theory, which I'm sure you're not doing, because that would be ridiculous.

 

[Jack Davenport]

I guess you didn't read dstone's posts

 

[xfire]

And like I said, xfire, the videos and other information is here for you if you care enough to review the materials. If you don't care enough to do that, but you still have questions about the subject, then there isn't much I can do for you.

Yeah, fuck that. I have no desire to watch hours of that shit. Same old New World Order shit that's been talked about for ages.

 

[Rey C.]

Rey C. O'Reilly- Again, instead of trying to make the smart-ass "oh snap" response, why don't you man-up, put on your big boy pants, and get serious. You want to actually review all the materials provided and make an educated response then we can have a discussion. Again, I would choose to break bread with someone who sacrificed his life for me, over a coward any day. Our liberties DO depend on guys like Edward. Who else would they depend on ? Spineless fools like you who care more about fake tits then they do about freedom.

Well, aren't you just a little cutie pie. Makin' up names and actin' all tough. Look at the little toy soldier go! Oooh! Ya scared me with that admonishment. You're just The Little Train That Could, aren't ya? :train: Lecturing people who have accomplished more, made more and know more than you ever will, even if you live to be 1050 years old. You, with your pseudo-intellectual bullshit learned at the local comm. college and Wikipedia.

You can break bread with the likes of Eddie Snowden whenever you like. You don't have to justify that to me, sporto. It's OK. In fact, I think that would be very nice. Some wine, candle light maybe a fire in the fireplace.. you with some KY Jelly in your pocket. Hey! I know! Maybe you could be his loyal, trusty-rusty food taster - he'll probably be needing one of those for a very long time to come. You can even lick his balls and toss his salad after dinner too. That's what a proper groupie does and that's probably all you're fit to do anyway.

We have lost Constitutional rights, and we need to get them back before they are gone forever...so what is the course of action to get them back ? You clowns need to stop focussing so much on porn pussy that you'll never have, and actually try putting on your thinking caps for once.

I guess you make that statement just to confirm to the entire class that you really are a silly little fuck, eh? Hey, numbnuts, here's a clue for ya: you are on a porn board! Do you not realize that? Are you really that goofy? You think we come here to talk to your dumb, fake ass? "You guys, uh... Hey, you guys uh... You guys just better stop looking at those big titties and talk to me, listen to me... for I am wise and I have many most important things to lay on you, bruthas & sistas!" Preach it to somebody else there, buffo. As much shit as I give ol' Fisher, I'm convinced that even he realizes that we're all just shootin' the breeze here - and nothing decided (or not decided) here is going to change the world. As silly as that fucker is, even he knows that much. But you... no, not you. Delusions of grandeur much???

We have lost this and we have lost that... Now to be fair, that's not completely untrue, so yeah, that I agree with. But I can tell you for damn sure, unless you have a mouse in your pocket that's going to guide you and help you, there's not a chance in hell that we will get anything back if it comes down to you and that naive piece of traitorous shit, your man crush, your bromance, Steady Eddie Snowden.

Let me ask you a serious question there, Lone Ranger. How many sit-downs have you had with your district's Congressional representative? How many letters to newspapers have you written? Other than playing some loud chin music here, exactly what actions have you taken to correct these injustices, real or perceived? *crickets chirping* "Uh" is not an acceptable answer, shitbird. That's what I thought! Now...

 

[Jack Davenport]

Not since ChefChiTown have a seen a poster that comes loaded for bear as much as Rey does,

 

[xfire]

http://www.addictinginfo.org/2013/07/06/have-we-all-been-fooled-by-edward-snowden/

At this point, the Edward Snowden saga seems to be running out of steam. The latest is that Venezuela and Nicaragua (out of at least 27 countries he asked) have offered him asylum so the story is almost at an end for now. The U.S. government will probably keep trying to extradite him so that they can prosecute but that may be years in coming. IF he manages to find asylum in the first place.

Through this whole business, I’ve remained of two minds about Snowden’s tale. While I am certain that what he has reported is true, I’m unsure of motivation. With what I have just read, though, I think I’m getting a clearer picture. One I will try to paint for you.

Snowden used to post on a website called Ars Technica: it’s a site for professional techies (“alpha geeks” is what the site says). He frequented the Internet Relay Chat rooms quite a lot, shooting the breeze with whoever happened by. This began when he was stationed in Geneva in 2007: an IT guy for the CIA in a foreign land, he probably enjoyed this little bit of home. His posts – under user name TheTrueHOOHA – from that time show someone who is decidedly unworldly: he complained about almost everything in Switzerland, from the price of food to the women. Over the years, he changed from an insulated, opinionated American into an opinionated, snarky ex-pat. One of the biggest changes in his opinions is what he thought of leakers. Back then, he was not a fan. In January of 2009, the following exchange took place in the chat room:

SNOWDEN: HOLY SHIThttp://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/11/washington/11iran.html?_r=1&hp

SNOWDEN: WTF NYTIMES

SNOWDEN: Are they TRYING to start a war? Jesus christ they’re like wikileaks

User19: they’re just reporting, dude.

SNOWDEN: They’re reporting classified shit

User19: shrugs

User19: meh

SNOWDEN: moreover, who the fuck are the anonymous sources telling them this?

SNOWDEN: those people should be shot in the balls.

Well, he’s sure done a switch since then, eh? I bet he would rather that his balls remain unshot now. He went so far as to wish the NYT would go bankrupt. He also had no problem with Bush’s warrantless wiretapping program, saying:

SNOWDEN: these are the same people who blew the whole “we could listen to osama’s cell phone” thing the same people who screwed us on wiretapping over and over and over again [sic] Thank god they’re going out of business.

User19: the NYT?

SNOWDEN: Hopefully they’ll finally go bankrupt this year.yeah.

He was gung-ho for it when Bush was president. Which brings up an interesting point: his opinion of such programs abruptly changed when Barack Obama took office. In the chat room, which Ars Technica calls “Officially unofficial” – the online equivalent to “the back room occupied by drinkers who feel the front (of the bar) is just too stuffy for them,” Snowden felt free to speak his mind even if everyone in the room would disagree with him. And he could be ugly about it.

Snowden revealed that he was a Ron Paul supporter and championed a return to the gold standard along with short selling stocks. Social issues also reveal a Libertarian bent when it came to personal freedoms. He also bought into Obama conspiracy theories such as the one that said Obama was going to devalue U.S. currency, leading to higher unemployment, something he saw as a “correction” and “a necessary part of capitalism.”

His disdain of President Obama and his policies was apparent and he bitched about them with “increasing frequency.” But there are two issues where, I believe, where Snowden’s true colors shine very clearly. This is one:

SNOWDEN: save money? cut this social security bullshit

User11: hahahayes

User18: Yeah! Fuck old people!

User11: social security is bullshit

User11: let’s just toss old people out in the street

User18: Old people could move in with [User11].

User11: NOOO

User11: they smell funny

SNOWDEN: Somehow, our society managed to make it hundreds of years without social security just fine

SNOWDEN: you fucking retards

SNOWDEN: Magically the world changed after the new deal, and old people became made of glass

SNOWDEN: yeah, that makes sense

User11: wow

User11: you are just so fucking stupid

SNOWDEN: yeah, [User11]. and you’re quite a gem

User19: and magically, life expectancy has doubled in the last 100 years.funny how that works.

SNOWDEN: [User19], you don’t think modern medicine has something to do with that? no? it’s social security? wow. I guess I missed that.

User11: hurr wait a second, life expectancy has shot up in recent times along with the dissolution of the communal family unit in exchange for the nuclear family

User11: gee i guess we might need to create a safety net for the sudden glut of helpless elderly????

SNOWDEN: they wouldn’t be fucking helpless if you weren’t sending them fucking checks to sit on their ass and lay in hospitals all day

User11: you are so goddamned stupd*pid

User11: PUT OLD PEOPLE TO WORK IN THE FIELDS

SNOWDEN: my grandmother is eighty fucking three this year, and you know what? she still supports herself working as a goddamned hairdresser



“Fuck old people”? An objectivist view if ever there was one. The other issue is the Second Amendment:

User: the restrictions were made to appease the conservatives to get another bill passed. fucking cons.

SNOWDEN: See, that’s why I’m goddamned glad for the second amendment. Me and all my lunatic, gun-toting NRA compatriots would be on the steps of Congress before the C-Span feed finished.

Very interesting. Snowden is a gun nut as well as an Obama hater. He also has been an outspoken advocate of the very thing he has become famous for revealing, cheering the security state network and insisting that it needed funding, even in the face of draconian budget cuts. He was particularly upset by Obama’s choice for the head of the CIA:

SNOWDEN: Obama just appointed a fucking POLITICIAN to run the CIA!

User11: yes unlike every other director of CIA ever

User11: oh wait, no

SNOWDEN: I am so angry right now. This is completely unbelievable.

Ars Technica has opened a new forum thread called Edward Snowden—NSA Leaker and Arsian (does anyone know what ‘arsian’ means?) where users who remember interactions with Snowden are not very complimentary. One wrote, “He was kind of dick.” Posts like this make a good argument for his dickishness:

“The fact that you’re posting on a gaming forum makes me cry. I hope someone tosses you in a burlap sack and beats you with reeds. You’re a filthy little ragamuffin who lacks any semblance of taste. You loved Halo and own an Xbox. You pre-ordered “Mary-Kate and Ashley: Sweet 16 Licensed To Drive.” You are the sole reason I write these posts. I hope you’re killed by a drunk driver on Halloween.”

This new information has me pondering exactly who this guy is: is he the concerned whistle-blower? Or did he have an ulterior motive to spill what he did? His background isn’t really CIA or NSA material, so say a few people I’ve spoken to who actually have worked for a government contractor. So why was he hired? And why did he pick now to speak out? This has never smelled right to me, which is why I have withheld judgement. But these new revelations create even more questions. Is this whole thing a ruse to make the President look bad? If so, who is funding it – who is paying for all his travel and hotels? Or is Edward Snowden, a man who has completely destroyed his own life, just stupid? I still don’t know but this new information gives me a lot to think about. How about you?

 

[eric2136]

Yeah, fuck that. I have no desire to watch hours of that shit. Same old New World Order shit that's been talked about for ages.

Wrong. You are probably the first person to even mention NWO in this thread, including all of the hours of video which you apparently know everything about, eventhough you never watched it. Wrong again. PRISM is a specific NSA program, the existance of which was just discovered so it has not been talked about for ages. The multibillion dollar complex being built in Utah to house all the mined information has not been talked about for ages, and the secret suspension of the 4th Amendment by the Patriot Act has not been talked about for ages.

 

[Rey C.]

:rofl2: ^^^ That is HI-larious!

I guess he better hope that they get his name right on the next arrest warrant... otherwise I say give the boy what's he's asked for: shoot him in the balls. What a :homer:!

 

[eric2136]

We have lost this and we have lost that... Now to be fair, that's not completely untrue, so yeah, that I agree with.

Okay now you right on the verge of saying something that actually makes some sense. Now once you figure out what the " this and that" is that we've lost, then maybe You Might finally be ready to say something intelligent.

I'm sure I know more politicians personally than you've probably ever met grandpa, but I assure you that it will take more than just that to make a change. The politicians I know are uniform against the Patriot Act, and have been since it was made into law, meanwhile idiots like you are still walking around with your head up your ass 20 years later still trying to figure out what the fuck you've lost.

 

[xfire]

Wrong. You are probably the first person to even mention NWO in this thread, including all of the hours of video which you apparently know everything about, eventhough you never watched it. Wrong again. PRISM is a specific NSA program, the existance of which was just discovered so it has not been talked about for ages. The multibillion dollar complex being built in Utah to house all the mined information has not been talked about for ages, and the secret suspension of the 4th Amendment by the Patriot Act has not been talked about for ages.

I was having a cup of coffee this morning and watched the video you started this thread with. I had to have another cup of coffee before it ended. There's nothing new about any of this, I'll grant you, it's disturbing, but it's been disturbing for a long time. How do you propose ending it? I'm of the opinion that it can't be ended, technology got us here, and technology is expanding. I don't foresee a police state, 1984 as it were, but intelligence gathering bodies aren't going anywhere, either. Snowden said himself that the only mechanism of restraint is policy.

 

[Rey C.]

Not since ChefChiTown have a seen a poster that comes loaded for bear as much as Rey does,

He was a lot of fun, weren't he? Any guy who had the stones to admit that he once drag raced a minivan (or even drove a minivan) against a Mustang, I decided he couldn't be all bad.

 

[eric2136]

I was having a cup of coffee this morning and watched the video you started this thread with. I had to have another cup of coffee before it ended. There's nothing new about any of this, I'll grant you, it's disturbing, but it's been disturbing for a long time. How do you propose ending it? I'm of the opinion that it can't be ended, technology got us here, and technology is expanding. I don't foresee a police state, 1984 as it were, but intelligence gathering bodies aren't going anywhere, either. Snowden said himself that the only mechanism of restraint is policy.

The initial answer is to get rid of the Patriot Act ASAP, and any other legislation which destroys 4th amendment rights. I think of course the NSA has to do its job, but within the parameters of the Constitution, especially the 4th Amendment. I think you should take some time to watch all the videos in this thread so that you realize why this isn't just business as usual. I admit it may take some time, but I took the time to do it, And you should too, wether you disagree or agree. Then we can have a discussion about what's really going on.

 

[xfire]

The initial answer is to get rid of the Patriot Act ASAP, and any other legislation which destroys 4th amendment rights. I think of course the NSA has to do its job, but within the parameters of the Constitution, especially the 4th Amendment. I think you should take some time to watch all the videos in this thread so that you realize why this isn't just business as usual. I admit it may take some time, but I took the time to do it, And you should too, wether you disagree or agree. Then we can have a discussion about what's really going on.

I was opposed to the Patriot Act before it was even signed. I just don't see the point in jumping up and down on the panic button this far removed from it's passage. I would love to go back to a pre-9/11 world, but that's just not going to happen. We still face real dangers, many of which we brought on ourselves through our often misguided foreign policy over the years, and there's no question that with expanding technology systemic abuses are pretty much guaranteed. But your answer begs the question, IF repeal of the Patriot Act and other legislation at odds with the 4th Amendment are the way to go forward, that's nothing really but words on paper. The technology is still there, will still be abused, and there's absolutely nothing that can be done to stop it. I'll watch a few more videos, I doubt if they will illuminate anything I'm not already familiar with, I have a habit of cutting things off when I see a familiar patten, I don't have room in my head for the screaming lunacy of Alex Jones et al.

 

[Rey C.]

I'm sure I know more politicians personally than you've probably ever met grandpa, but I assure you that it will take more than just that to make a change. The politicians I know are uniform against the Patriot Act, and have been since it was made into law, meanwhile idiots like you are still walking around with your head up your ass 20 years later still trying to figure out what the fuck you've lost.

Maybe you do, maybe you don't. But I somehow doubt that any of them take you any more seriously than I do. Why do I think that? Well, if you had the ear of real politicians, you wouldn't be "street corner preaching" here, smelling of desperation and hyperbole, now would ya? You'd be in meetings with them, gettin' some of this stuff fixed. No politician, other than the guy over the county water authority or some uneducated TEA Party flake, would listen to your foolishness. If the people you know are oh-so powerful, then why did the Patriot Act pass? Why is it still in place? Why am I asking you? Apparently your pals aren't so powerful or influential at all. And as I have already stated, you are just some yob on a porn message board... like all the rest of us. My cousin and my uncle spent most of their careers in and around D.C. If either of them wouldn't know more politicians than you, then you must be on C-SPAN every day. But just knowing someone vs. having influence are two different things. Sorry, again, you are not impressing me with that. If you're trying to impress me, pull a bunny out of a hat or something.

Deflate your head and act like you have a tad bit of sense and then maybe then we'll talk.