Donald Drumpf

[Johan]

Never? done anything? Other than being the major influence if not the outright foundation of western civilization and it's laws, then yeah, it's never done anything good for the world.

The Bible is not the outright foundation of western civilisation. A big part of the laws in the 10 Commandment (prohibition of robbery, theft, adultery, false testimony) were already existing in other cultures such as ancien Egypt. The only things new in the 10 Commandments are the regulation of the thoughts (Thou shall not covet [...]) and the prohibition of other religions (thou shall not have other gods [...]), which brought nothing but war, massacres, genocides, etc.

You should learn pre-1775 (or even pre-1620) History.

 

[sean miguel]

I'm not talking about the Ten Commandments exclusively though those have been cited by law making bodies through the centuries. I'm definitely not talking about Levitical law which was for a specific group of people for a specific time. What I mean are biblical judeo-christian principles that there is an objective, absolute truth, an absolute standard of morality and a higher law of Nature and of Nature's God that everyone is accountable to, from Emperors and Kings to the lowliest of slaves. And of the intrinsic worth of each individual that is inalienable. Without this, no law could be unjust by definition. It was all subject to the whims of whatever ruler(s) there happened to be.


Whether you believe it's a book of fairy tales or not, there is no denying that no other text has had the impact the bible has in shaping western civilization. From governance, to literature, arts and music to philosophy. It's everywhere.

 

[Will E Worm]

Well aren't you just a fuzzy warm ball of racism and hate. So what you are saying is that the book of fairy tales that they brought us has never done anything good for the world either. I would agree on that point. We need to make room for everybody and for everybody to have a voice. That even goes for you racist hillbillies.

Never? done anything? Other than being the major influence if not the outright foundation of western civilization and it's laws, then yeah, it's never done anything good for the world.

Your sig is ironic.

Agreed, Western civilization is based on the Bible.

 

[ThatRedWing]

Agreed, Western civilization is based on the Bible.

Yes, there was a time when the church held sway over everyday life, we called it the dark ages.

 

[Will E Worm]

Yes, there was a time when the church held sway over everyday life, we called it the dark ages.

That was Catholic, and not America.

 

[ThatRedWing]

That was Catholic, and not America.

Exactly, the U.S. was founded during the age of enlightenment. The founding fathers were mostly Deists who did not prescribe to the Christian God.

 

[Will E Worm]

Exactly, the U.S. was founded during the age of enlightenment. The founding fathers were mostly Deists who did not prescribe to the Christian God.

http://faithofourfathers.net/

 

[ThatRedWing]

http://faithofourfathers.net/

http://www.britannica.com/topic/The-Founding-Fathers-Deism-and-Christianity-1272214

 

[Johan]

That was Catholic, and not America.

Exactly. But that's precisely the kind of civilisation Ted Cruz and some other GOP cjhristian politicians want for America : a christian theocracy, an America version of the regime they have in Iran.

Let them do whatever they want and within 20 years the US would be a christian totalitarian theocracy.

 

[Rey C.]

I have no use for Ted Cruz. But I've not heard him say anything that indicates that he has anything like that in mind.

 

[pool_hustler]

I have no use for Ted Cruz. But I've not heard him say anything that indicates that he has anything like that in mind.

Not to that extremity, no.
However, I believe both he and Rubio have expressed their conviction that God's law supercedes the Constitution, which makes for a slippery slope.

 

[Jack Davenport]

Not to that extremity, no.
However, I believe both he and Rubio have expressed their conviction that God's law supercedes the Constitution, which makes for a slippery slope.

No they have not. Perhaps from a personal standpoint, but that does not translate into imposing their beliefs on others. A constructionist like Cruz will protect religious freedom or your right not to worship better than any liberal you can name.

 

[mongo18]

A constructionist like Cruz will protect religious freedom or your right not to worship better than any liberal you can name.

Jesus. We're all used to everything you post being pure bullshit, but ffs, you've gotta have some limits.

 

[GodsEmbryo]

[...] What I mean are biblical judeo-christian principles that there is an objective, absolute truth, an absolute standard of morality and a higher law of Nature and of Nature's God that everyone is accountable to, from Emperors and Kings to the lowliest of slaves. And of the intrinsic worth of each individual that is inalienable. Without this, no law could be unjust by definition. It was all subject to the whims of whatever ruler(s) there happened to be. [...]

And what do you understand "objective" and "absolute" to mean? How would you define these words?

 

[Jack Davenport]

Jesus. We're all used to everything you post being pure bullshit, but ffs, you've gotta have some limits.

So shocked that you can't grasp the concept of the American Constitution and interpretation. Nobody posts more bullshit on this board than you son.

We need a bilge pump to read your shit.

 

[sean miguel]

And what do you understand "objective" and "absolute" to mean? How would you define these words?

Simply what is. Universal and independent of any belief, perspective or understanding. You can believe it or not believe it, understand it or have no comprehension of it, it just goes on being what it is.


Others have put it more eloquently or effectively but those are my thoughts.

 

[Johan]

What I mean are biblical judeo-christian principles that there is an objective, absolute truth, an absolute standard of morality and a higher law of Nature and of Nature's God that everyone is accountable to, from Emperors and Kings to the lowliest of slaves.

Just lie any other religion

And of the intrinsic worth of each individual that is inalienable.

And, in the name of God and the Bible that was , according to you, the foundation of the civilisation, the Church invented the Inquisition and approved the massacre of hundreds of thousands of the pre-colombians population of latin-america.

Whether you believe it's a book of fairy tales or not, there is no denying that no other text has had the impact the bible has in shaping western civilization. From governance, to literature, arts and music to philosophy. It's everywhere.

Agree. Just like Zeus, Athena, etc. are on every ancient-greek buildings, archelogicals sites and items. Just like references to Islam, Allah or Mohammed are everywhere in North Africa and Middle East. Just like Osiris, Anubis, Ra, etc. are everywhere on ancien egyptian archeological sites and items, just like Bhrama, Vishnu and Shiva are everywhere in India, etc... Every culture is filled with references to its dominating religion.

The christian influence on western civilisations has never been as strong as it was during the medieval times. Yep, that period is considered as "dark times", this civilisations are considered as obscurantists. At the same time, the Middle East was under muslim influence and it was way more advanced than Europe.

Japan has never been under christian influence, small or bif. Still, the country and its people developped a perfectly fine civilisation.

Pretending without christianity, the western civilisation wouldn't be is stupid. other part of the world successfully created civilisations comparable ot ours without christianity.And, before christianity became so influent in Europe, there had been other religions who were very influential on perfectly fine civilisations and nobody can tell for sure how Europe (and America) would be if christianity hadn't been so influent on their civilisations.

 

[sean miguel]

Just lie any other religion

Like Buddhism?

I'll get to the rest of your points later.

 

[Johan]

Like Buddhism?

I'll get to the rest of your points later.

Buddhism is different : there is no God. It's more a philosophy than a religion. But There are many pieces of art related to buddhism in buddhist regions of the world.

 

[GodsEmbryo]

Simply what is. Universal and independent of any belief, perspective or understanding. You can believe it or not believe it, understand it or have no comprehension of it, it just goes on being what it is.
Others have put it more eloquently or effectively but those are my thoughts.

Could be an interesting topic but I don't want to hijack this thread. Some remarks though:

You wrote about "biblical judeo-christian principles" yet your definition makes it independent of belief? And if something is universal it suggests understanding and acceptance by everyone. If not everyone understands and accepts it in the same way, there is no chance for something to be an absolute objective truth, let alone that people could understand or recognize something to be a moral standard. And so on.
I think it would be hard to come up with a definition that leaves no room for interpretation.

if you write that "[...] no law could be unjust by definition. It was all subject to the whims of whatever ruler(s) there happened to be" I take it that you could provide an example? For instance, if the absolute standard of morality is based on biblical judeo-christian principles could you provide an example of moral values that did not exist roughly 2500 years ago but exist now thanks to these judeo-christian principles?