Are you worried about the economy?

[LBP 76]

Well with all respect I'm sure before black teusday in 1929 they didn't think they were in real trouble eitheir.

In my opinion, the circumstances of 1929 are FAR different then now. There are far more consumer safeguards and alternatives then there were then. A technical depression could happen now. But there is no way it could last nearly as long or be nearly as severe as it was.
Oddly, I think this bailout actually increases the chances of the inevitable recession becoming a depression.

But, we shall see.

 

[Friday on my mind]

And once this is over, what happens in 6-8 months when Ford, GM and Chrysler come crying for government assistance? How can the government say no to all those hundreds of thousands of auto industry related jobs? And what about the airlines? Etc....
This sets a terrible precedence.

The car companies are already doing that,they have been on the way to failing as well.In a way I agree with you it sets a huge precedent but maybe a good one in the long run.It may be an acjknowledgement that the so-called free enterprise system is just out of date and that we are all so dependant on its stability to just hope and prey people do the right thing without strict govt monitoring seems to have not worked.Sure in theory we should just let it all fail as that is how free markets are suppose to work.But I do think if that happened it would result in worldwide depression and that is too high a price to pay for just being right so were stuck with the bailout.But no way going forward if this bailout is done can this system be called totally free market capitalism,that dies with this bailout.What we might get is something that says certain buisnesses and industries will now all be private /public enterprises and that if you wish to be in such an industry yes you will be able to rely on the govt and taxpayers to be there if you get in trouble but that in return we will regulate you in ways that other industries/ companies are not.This would apply to ones whose sheer size and importance make our entire economy vunerable.Things are just so interconnected and huge in importance to everyone's well being that we just can't let ourselves all go down with them when they go down.

 

[LBP 76]

You are assuming what the banks are telling you is true. That if they don't get this bailout, they go down. And that we go with them.
I don't agree with that.

 

[titsrock]

It's one thing to hold the CEOs to the fire over this mess. I agree we should do that. No golden parachutes. HOWEVER...the pieces of shit brokers and agents all around the nation, the ones who lied to prospective homebuyers, are going to go unpunished. The worst thing we can hope for is that these pieces of shit lose their jobs? That's not enough given the widespread destruction.

 

[METAL HEAD]

um no

 

[BlueBalls]

Nah, you know what I do, I kneel down put my face between my legs and shout "La, La, La, La, La!!!!" Over and over and over, if your do that for 3 to 4 hours all your fears fase away. And if you do it in the middle of London whilst all the bankers are carrying their boxes out of their offices because they have all been fired, it makes you feel alot better.

 

[om3ga]

I am very worried. This bailout is a complicated mess and could have unforeseen consequences.

Heck, some reckon $700 billion by the US alone isn't enough - according to one commentator on Bloomberg TV this morning, it was thought a $5 trillion global bailout was required.....

 

[AFA]

Heck, some reckon $700 billion by the US alone isn't enough - according to one commentator on Bloomberg TV this morning, it was thought a $5 trillion global bailout was required.....

That is probably more accurate.

Congress was pressing the question today during the hearings and they won't guarantee $700 billion is enough.

Hey, asshole that I am, I balance my checkbook every month. :dunno:

 

[DoctorWu]

Yeah, and something awful, too...

 

[AFA]

um no

Good answer.

Borrow more.

 

[Member2019]

Why stop there?

It's one thing to hold the CEOs to the fire over this mess. I agree we should do that. No golden parachutes. HOWEVER...the pieces of shit brokers and agents all around the nation, the ones who lied to prospective homebuyers, are going to go unpunished. The worst thing we can hope for is that these pieces of shit lose their jobs? That's not enough given the widespread destruction.

Why stop there?

If Americans weren't such idiots at math and rolled their eyes at amortization tables, maybe they would have allowed the problem to be fed.
I was saying this back in 2005, and I really hate being right again and again.
Then again, I'm someone with a degree that is one left traveled in the US, especially by Americans born in this country.

In all honesty, we're really just deserving the system we've built ourselves.
I hate to say or even believe that, but it's the damn truth, and Americans should feel the pain.
Unfortunately, it keeps falling on the most responsible, the ones who aren't the problem.

 

[om3ga]

From AFP:

Thousands of Hong Kong savers mobbed branches of Bank of East Asia on Wednesday to withdraw deposits, as the bank scrambled to reassure them it was not overexposed to Lehman Brothers and AIG.

Police were called in to control the crowds after text messages flashed across the city warning the bank was unstable as it held a large number of assets linked to the failed Wall Street bank and the troubled insurance giant.

But BEA and the city's financial authorities moved quickly to rebuff the claims, insisting the bank was in a solid financial position.

 

[Member2019]

That's how it started before ...

From AFP:

That's how it started before, people withdrawing.
Banks only keep a fraction of deposits on-hand, although regulated, it's still a fraction -- close to an order of magnitude.

Investment banks are far worse and not nearly as regulated.
I think people are taking this a bit too far, and their panic is making it far worse.

Goldman and others would not be moving to traditional, regulated banking if they were not good moves.
Even though a lot of homes in the US are in default, it's still just a fraction of the loans out there as well.

It just hit some investment banks far more than others.
Traditional banks have far less exposed investments overall.

 

[Tarface]

I hope the forty-five people that voted "no" don't live in America...

 

[om3ga]

The two most senior figures in the Church of England have launched outspoken attacks on the excesses of capitalism which they claim have led to the current global financial crisis.

The Archbishop of York, Dr John Sentamu, condemned the financial traders who made millions by driving down the share price of leading banks as "bank robbers and asset strippers".

Meanwhile the Archbishop of Canterbury, Dr Rowan Williams, warned in a magazine article that modern devotion to the free market is a form of idolatry and that Karl Marx was right in his analysis of the power of "unbridled capitalism".

Details:
Archbishops of Canterbury and York blame capitalism excesses for financial crisis

All very worthy - too bad the article points out the Church of England has billions of pounds of its wealth invested in the stock market and earlier this year disclosed a record return of more than 9.4 per cent.

 

[om3ga]

And if this mess isn't enough.....

$300/Barrel Oil Is Coming

(don't worry just yet, this will be around 2015)

 

[Friday on my mind]

And if this mess isn't enough.....

$300/Barrel Oil Is Coming

I think he is probably correct and as he says the only real feasible alternative to oil that we could utilize cleanly (coal is just to dirty) is nuclear has not been politically a popular choice.Nobody wants a plant in their back yard and we can't come to agreement on waste disposal so no new nukes.Eventually we will probably embark on crash program of building them but it will take years to replace the high priiced oil then.

 

[AFA]

Fuel cells are promising but no one bothered looking into it 30 years ago during the Oil Embargo. That amazes me that this government spent more time controlling everyone else in the world and didn't raise a finger to fund alternate energy research in all this time.

I believe it's the Swedish that have a high tax on gas, the highest. That goes directly into funding such research because they are clear headed enough to know they will need it one day when the oil runs out or is at an impossible price.

Why are taxes so high here if we get virtually nothing for it. No common sense, no universal health care, no insight whatsoever?

 

[titsrock]

^^^
It's old notions that it's 1950 still...when gas will be always be cheap, the dollar will always be strong...people worked their entire lives at one company and left with a pension and lifetime healthcare.

The Repubs have sold the masses on the vision of the "city on the hill" all the while working to subvert and destroy the system from which that "city" sprung up from.

The Dems have let the Republicans cast them as hippie wimps and have never recovered from that. I wonder if the Dems truly have the stomach to oppose Republican mischief? They cowed and caved to the Repubs on the war and on coastal oil drilling....gulp. It's like the Dems are waiting until they have PERFECT MAJORITY...550 Dems in Congress and Obama as Pres.

 

[om3ga]

Washington Mutual Inc. may be seized by regulators later today and parts sold to JPMorgan Chase & Co. in what will rank among the biggest banking failures in U.S. history.

Details:
JPMorgan Chase May Acquire Washington Mutual After FDIC Seizure