Americans should not be allowed to own guns.

[skechers]

I think what it is with most foreigners (minus georges of course) is that we all see on the news the various school shootings, church shootings etc etc and we wonder how can they continue to allow these things to take place wouldnt tougher laws on guns, maybe the ristriction of gun sales so that they arent as easy to buy.

You never see the stories on the news where a gun, just being present, was enough to prevent a death, a robbery, a rape...

Never the stories about the fourteen year old boys or girls on hunting trips with their dads, or grandfathers, bringing down their first deer.

Of course you always, always, always, always hear about the tragedies, and you keep hearing about them. As they are annaylsed, diagnosed... by anyone with an opinion, no matter how melodramatic and farfetched. The more fiction, the better. Makes for a good story. Keeps us tuned in. That's how the media works.

You demonize guns. You forget the demon is the finger pulling the trigger, and the reasons behind the eyes that are looking down the sights.

 

[marquis2]

And its also true that almost all adult males in Iraq possesed a weapon before and now.That does not show IMO that an armed populace is not a deterent to a govt that is despotic and hated by its people though.What it shows IMO is that Saddam and his regime were not so unpopular and despised by the people of Iraq as some might like to claim.

Not so sure about this.Saddam had a pretty tight grip on things plus a wide reaching network of informers.People would think "What can I do with just my gun?" knowing that the chances of forming a force large enough to embarrass the government would be about zero because of the network.A really tyrannical government just frightens the shit out of you.

 

[BlueBalls]

You never see the stories on the news were a gun, just being present, was enough to prevent a death, a robbery, a rape...

Never the stories about the fourteen year old boys or girls on hunting trips with their dads, or grandfathers, bringing down their first deer.

Of course you always, always, always, always hear about the tragedies, and you keep hearing about them. As they are annaylsed, diagnosed... by anyone with an opinion, no matter how melodramatic and farfetched. The more fiction, the better. Makes for a good story. Keeps us tuned in. That's how the media works.

You demonize guns. You forget the demon is the finger pulling the trigger, and the reasons behind the eyes that are looking down sights.

Didnt I earlier on in my post say that I really didnt care whether or not you guys kept your guns, what I believe I said was ".. it's in your constitution so who am I or anyone else to change it ..." something along those lines, I'm not going back to look it up.

The part you've quoted is my trying to explain some of the thoughts some of the people on here have towards guns. Just quoting that part takes it completely out of context, but never mind. Of course you dont see some kid shooting his first deer or whatever, what kind news program would it be if all they did show were kids killing deers and we all just forgot about what's going on in Iran, for example. New's that gets people's attention sells, of course we get that, it's pretty obvious. But the sheer number of these cases year after year is why some people feel there should be tougher laws.

I'm against guns personally, I think they're dangerous and it's far to easy to deal with ones problems with the use of a gun than to converse with another human being and they play into that whole macho personality thing that has made the world today such a fun place to live in [sarcasm alert!!!!]. But am I going to say Americans shouldnt own guns, no, of course not. Who am I to tell anyone what to do when it's been part of their law since they were first independant and I dont live there.

Which was kind of my point in the post you have quoted. I guess it wasnt clear.... :dunno:

 

[skechers]

Didnt I earlier on in my post say that I really didnt care whether or not you guys kept your guns, what I believe I said was ".. it's in your constitution so who am I or anyone else to change it ..." something along those lines, I'm not going back to look it up.

The part you've quoted is my trying to explain some of the thoughts some of the people on here have towards guns. Just quoting that part takes it completely out of context, but never mind. Of course you dont see some kid shooting his first deer or whatever, what kind news program would it be if all they did show were kids killing deers and we all just forgot about what's going on in Iran, for example. New's that gets people's attention sells, of course we get that, it's pretty obvious. But the sheer number of these cases year after year is why some people feel there should be tougher laws.

I'm against guns personally, I think they're dangerous and it's far to easy to deal with ones problems with the use of a gun than to converse with another human being and they play into that whole macho personality thing that has made the world today such a fun place to live in [sarcasm alert!!!!]. But am I going to say Americans shouldnt own guns, no, of course not. Who am I to tell anyone what to do when it's been part of their law since they were first independant and I dont live there.

Which was kind of my point in the post you have quoted. I guess it wasnt clear.... :dunno:

I was picking at the idea. It doesn't really matter to me who's it was.

The point is, bad people do bad things with guns. But guns are just the tool. And a tool that has a bigger pros collumn than cons. That isn't always made apparent, in light of said bad people doing unsaid bad things.

Know what I mean, jellybean? Here comes a cliche: Guns don't kill people. People kill people. Guns make it easier TO kill people. But if you tally up the responsible people who own a gun legally, who have never pulled the trigger in anger, and have utterly no desire to, and then tallied up the ones who have commited a violent crime with a gun... Well, you'd have quite a bit more of the former. QUITE a bit.

And who knows how many times a gun has saved a life, or stopped a bad person and their things...

And, yeah. there are programs that are exactly how you described them. The outdoors network, or whatever it's called. Most people don't watch them. Because they're too busy watching the news and getting their fear fix.

I think the whole macho-guys-using-guns-to-solve-problems thing is overblown. Especially when you are talking about a legally legit, and responsible gun owner.

That stuff happens in the movies, and with dumb, poor kids who acquire a gun illegally because they think it makes them tough.


Oh, you were clear. But it's the argument, the ideals that I disagree with. Not yourself. I respect your opinions.

 

[BlueBalls]

I was picking at the idea. It doesn't really matter to me who's it was.

The point is, bad people do bad things with guns. But guns are just the tool. And a tool that has a bigger pros collumn than cons. That isn't always made apparent, in light of said bad people doing unsaid bad things.

Know what I mean, jellybean? Here comes a cliche: Guns don't kill people. People kill people. Guns make it easier TO kill people. But if you tally up the responsible people who own a gun legally, who have never pulled the trigger in anger, and have utterly no desire to, and then tallied up the ones who have commited a violent crime with a gun... Well, you'd have quite a bit more of the former. QUITE a bit.

And who knows how many times a gun has saved a life, or stopped a bad person and their things...

And, yeah. there are programs that are exactly how you described them. The outdoors network, or whatever it's called. Most people don't watch them. Because they're too busy watching the news and getting their fear fix.

I think the whole macho-guys-using-guns-to-solve-problems thing is overblown. Especially when you are talking about a legally legit, and responsible gun owner.

That stuff happens in the movies, and with dumb, poor kids who acquire a gun illegally because they think it makes them tough.


Oh, you were clear. But it's the argument, the ideals that I disagree with. Not yourself. I respect your opinions.

That statement [bold] was more of a bash on the whole idea that the use of violence and force solves everything. The bigger the gun the more power it has (maybe, what do I know), the bigger the military ... you get my anaolgy. That's what I mean when I say "macho mentality". Of course there are times when force is the last option, but I've gone way off topic so I will tread no further.

Idiot kids and movies dont concern me in this case.

 

[Facetious]

Why are Americans so scared that they feel that they need a gun to protect themselves ?

We might actually have something to lose in the deal i.e. a car, a wallet with actual money inside (on good days lol !), a small business with asset investments all over the workshop, the possibilities are endless !

Also, let's not forget that we all live in different conditions -
You may both live and work in a highly populated center where crime is at the minimum because of dense population, whereas, in the states, for example, the populations tend to be much more rural and widespread when compared to Europe and UK.
No thug criminal - carjacker - burglar - rapist etc. wants to commit their crimes with witnesses all over the place. This widespread openness creates opportunities for the criminal element.

So, that's an important thing to keep in mind when asking the "scared American" question.

 

[D-rock]

Why are Americans so scared that they feel that they need a gun to protect themselves ?

A lot better question to ask is considering the way human nature is, how people like taking power for themselves, how corrupt nearly all government eventually become, the entirety of those instances throughout human history since at least it was recorded, and how the history of humanity shows only a short amount of time where free societies have actually existed on this world is,

"Why are Europeans so enormously apathetic about their own protection for themselves and their decedents from tyranny."

That is a much more logical question to be asking. My God it wasn't even a lifetime ago that most of you were under or being attacked by a tyrant. It wasn't that long before that before most of you were ruled over by monarchs either. It seems the people over there act like their civilization has been fair, just, and espoused the beliefs of liberty and freedom for the last 10,000 years without fail by the way they act. It's not a mindset attuned to reality that's for sure. Who knows maybe it's in their culture and become part of their very essence to except being sheep, and they are just conditioned to accept it. We aren't.

It's just amusing to me that they just sit back and assume nothings ever going to go wrong, when thousands of years of human history say the complete opposite.

 

[TwatDetective]

I think the main reason firearms became so important in America is because of when they overthrew Britain. I'm pretty sure that's why it's in the constitution as well.

It's entirely possible there will be another revolution in the future.

Did the Roman republic foresee 1000 years as an Empire after 1000 years of a republic.? Did people forsee the rise the facism in Europe in the 19th century? We may think it will never happen but we can't possibly predict that.

Although, we may just lie back and take it, and even applause for our new dictator like Hitler in the 30's and the Emporer from Star Wars.

EDIT: What D-Rock said.

 

[dallasv8]

i live in Australia and i do believe in the right to own guns.i use them quite often when hunting or eradicating pests etc.i also use them for target practice/fun.

the good people look after and obey gun laws etc and generally cause no problems,its just a few bad apples that commit crimes with weapons and i am guessing a lot of crims that use firearms for holdups etc probably dont have gun licences etc.

no matter how strict gun laws get, the criminals etc will still be able to buy weapons on the black market.the tighter the laws get, i imagine the easier it will be to get illegal weapons.

i for one believe in the right to have firarms in my house.i also believe that people should have basic gun safety training to prevent accidental injuries if they do come in contact with a firearm.

 

[Magnet]

Sounds pretty cliche but...Guns dont kill people, people kill people.

You start taking away our guns, whats next? Our Cars? Afterall those kill people to! (lets not blame it on the people driving them)

 

[sproing99]

Who is scared?

All those people who say that they have or carry a gun for protection. You have to be scared of something to take remedial action.

 

[sproing99]

"Why are Europeans so enormously apathetic about their own protection for themselves and their decedents from tyranny.".

It surprises me how may people actually trot this line out and seem to believe it. If gun ownership was to protect the democracy then why own a handgun, it'd be almost useless in a guerilla conflict against a corrupt government. From the answers on this board, the reason people have guns are:

- Fetishism - I like guns
- Hunting - I like to kill things, with guns
- Fear - I want to protect myself from people with guns, with guns
- Paranoia - I want to protect myself from the gubmint, with guns

That is a much more logical question to be asking. My God it wasn't even a lifetime ago that most of you were under or being attacked by a tyrant. It wasn't that long before that before most of you were ruled over by monarchs either. It seems the people over there act like their civilization has been fair, just, and espoused the beliefs of liberty and freedom for the last 10,000 years without fail by the way they act. It's not a mindset attuned to reality that's for sure. Who knows maybe it's in their culture and become part of their very essence to except being sheep, and they are just conditioned to accept it. We aren't.
.

Paranoia - see point 4 above


Though you're welcome to your guns, just please don't bring your gun ownership culture over here

 

[sproing99]

We might actually have something to lose in the deal i.e. a car, a wallet with actual money inside (on good days lol !), a small business with asset investments all over the workshop, the possibilities are endless !

Also, let's not forget that we all live in different conditions -
You may both live and work in a highly populated center where crime is at the minimum because of dense population, whereas, in the states, for example, the populations tend to be much more rural and widespread when compared to Europe and UK.
No thug criminal - carjacker - burglar - rapist etc. wants to commit their crimes with witnesses all over the place. This widespread openness creates opportunities for the criminal element.

So, that's an important thing to keep in mind when asking the "scared American" question.

Are you seriously claining that rural crime. rural violent crime is more common that urban crime ?

Although Wiki is by no means infallible:

Prevalence of homicide and violent crime is greatest in urban areas of the United States. In metropolitan areas, the homicide rate in 2005 was 6.1 per 100,000 compared with 3.5 in non-metropolitan counties.[26] In U.S. cities with populations greater than 250,000, the mean homicide rate was 12.1 per 100,000.[27] Rates of gun-related homicides are greatest in southern and western states.[28]

Are you seriously suggesting that nowhere is rural in Europe ?

Are you seriously suggesting that there's nothing to steal in Europe ?

 

[feller469]

Why do Americans have guns?

So Nancy Grace can justify her existence. CNN jumped the shark with her.

 

[ThatRedWing]

All those people who say that they have or carry a gun for protection. You have to be scared of something to take remedial action.

You seem to be confusing CCW's and general gun ownership. Not all gun owners are walking around with an arsenal under their jackets. In some cases it just makes sense to have a carry permit. Certain professions definitely need one. How many of these jackass punks actually have a CCW? How are you going to get one for an illegal gun? We are talking about legal gun ownership. If you have a permit and you shoot somebody with it you better have a GOOD reason. The police don't mess around with that. :hatsoff:

 

[bimmer1]

a badass fighter can rip your throat out easily- lets put him in jail before he does?

it comes down to your either a murderer or your not. You can strangle someone to death quite easily, and much less messy or you could shoot someone.

get a life- and learn to live in reality. there are hundreds of millions of guns around you. the fact is- if you dont like guns, you dont have to have them, and whats more - if you dont like to be around them, YOU DONT HAVE TO!
if you dont want to see a gun- dont go to gun stores, dont go to shooting ranges, and i promise you- you will not see a gun. its not like your neighbors bust them out and walk around with them. and if you do see a gun in public- odds are a crime is in progress, and not amount of laws would stop that- so just call the police.

a few qoutes for you
"Gun Control - A theory espoused by some monumentally stupid people; who claim to believe, against all logic and common sense, that a violent predator who ignores the laws prohibiting them from robbing, raping, kidnapping, torturing and killing their fellow human beings will obey a law telling them that they cannot own a gun."

Sigmund Freud: "A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity."

Adolf Hitler: "The most foolish mistake we could possibly make would be to allow the subject races to possess arms."

Benito Mussolini: “The measures adopted to restore public order are: First of all, the elimination of the so-called subversive elements. ... They were elements of disorder and subversion. On the morrow of each conflict I gave the categorical order to confiscate the largest possible number of weapons of every sort and kind. This confiscation, which continues with the utmost energy, has given satisfactory results.” (address to the Italian Senate, 1931)

Admiral Yamamoto: "You cannot invade mainland United States. There would be a rifle behind each blade of grass."

Mohandas K. Gandhi: "Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the Act depriving a whole nation of arms as the blackest. If we want the Arms Act to be repealed, if we want to learn the use of arms, here is a golden opportunity. If the middle classes render voluntary help to Government in the hour of its trial, distrust will disappear, and the ban on possessing arms will be withdrawn."


THINK ABOUT IT.

 

[bimmer1]

one last thing- if someone took you sport shooting with some fun sport type rifles- you would most likely have a blast and turn from being anti gun to actually liking them and losing their fear. ive seen this first hand several times.

my mother is an example, just to let you know.

guns are a technology that will not go away. if we ban them completly, the black market will provide to the criminals. it already does. black market guns and cheaper, and in many cases full auto. criminals already are barred from owning firearms. being convicted of a felony stops you from legally owning a gun. but these second offenders have no problem getting a hold of one. see black market.

 

[calpoon]

P.S. fetishisation is not a word

Yes it is. http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/fetishisation

 

[Cpt.Obvious]

Most of America is wilderness.
Excuse me Mr Grizzly bear I have a written notice from the governor stating its against the law for you to eat my children.
Hello animal control my child is having his throat ripped out by a coyote, when can you get hear to stop it?
also
Americans are rougher, simpler, more violent, more enterprising, less refined.
An armed society is a polite society.
or do you really think American criminals are applying for armed robbery permits.
the United States first line of defense against an armed invasion is a redneck in a pickup truck with his hunting rifle.
the bulk of American culture and history is gun based,
It's what made my country for better and for worse.
Try taking guns away from Americans and see our reaction.
For most Americans, gun control is hitting what you aim at.
Debate it argue it all you want, but deny Americans the right to bare arms and there will erupt a new wave of criminal gun activity.

 

[meesterperfect]

Crazy people are gonna do crazy things no matter what you do.
Crazy people will get a gun , Most crazy people who do crazy things with guns get them illegally anyway.
So if you think that passing more crazy laws will stop crazy people from doing crazy things , well thats just fucking crazy.