Georgia Passes Law That Allows "Guns Everywhere"

[Mr. Daystar]

I think the law goes a bit too far myself. I mean, any reasonable person would have to agree that guns and alcohol really don't go together very well so I see a good likelihood for a serious uptick in shooting incidents at Georgia roadhouses in the near future. Guns allowed in certain government buildings? Like the tax office for instance? The DMV? Hmmm....somehow, I see that not going too well. Also, I would be concerned about this:

Any one that wold exercise poor judgement in these places, under aggravating circumstances, likely would do so, even IF guns were restricted. Ohio allows guns in places that sell alcohol provided the person carrying is not consuming. People were up in arms over this law....nothing major has happened.

So, if a cop sees a gun lying on the passenger seat of my car, he cannot detain me to see if the gun is registered and legally owned and licensed by self without alternative probable cause? Wow....that's the second amendment gone crazy in my book.

No, he shouldn't. In fact, ANY attempt of that type, is no different then the Gestapo asking to see your papers. Checking guns, just because they're present? sounds like innocent until proven guilty doesn't count for gun owners.

I'm all for responsible gun owners being able to exercise their constitutional rights. However, none of our freedoms are absolute....except now perhaps the "right to bear arms" in the state of Georgia. I don't suppose Texas will be slow to follow the Peach State's lead. Welcome to Dodge City, folks! :ak47: :violent:

This is the one that disappoints me Jag. I understand you have points of view on this subject, and they differ from some...me included, but this is exactly what every anti gun group screams, when a new pro gun law is passed, and it's what they've screamed every time a new state has been added to the list of states that allow concealed carry....but it's never happened! I'm a little surprised you would throw that out there.

 

[Rattrap]

I think the law goes a bit too far myself. I mean, any reasonable person would have to agree that guns and alcohol really don't go together very well so I see a good likelihood for a serious uptick in shooting incidents at Georgia roadhouses in the near future. Guns allowed in certain government buildings? Like the tax office for instance? The DMV? Hmmm....somehow, I see that not going too well. Also, I would be concerned about this:

This is the one that disappoints me Jag. I understand you have points of view on this subject, and they differ from some...me included, but this is exactly what every anti gun group screams, when a new pro gun law is passed, and it's what they've screamed every time a new state has been added to the list of states that allow concealed carry....but it's never happened! I'm a little surprised you would throw that out there.

This is part of the problem I'm talking about; we don't have good research on the subject, so all we get is screaming. Maybe this will make Georgia a safer place. Maybe it will make things more dangerous. We don't know.

 

[Mr. Daystar]

This is part of the problem I'm talking about; we don't have good research on the subject, so all we get is screaming. Maybe this will make Georgia a safer place. Maybe it will make things more dangerous. We don't know.

As a proud, card carrying member of the NRA...I always look to the FBI's national crime statistics, for my info. Why? Because they are fair an unbiased, and yes, WE DO know how it will effect us. Every state has crime, some more then others, but when a place like Chicago, which until recently had no carry law, but on of the the highest murder rates, it seems very clear to me. Now I realize it's hard to compare states with one another, and the dynamics of different cities, but there are hard numbers out there, you just have to go to the right agencies, as opposed to pro, or anti gun groups.

 

[Rattrap]

As a proud, card carrying member of the NRA...I always look to the FBI's national crime statistics, for my info. Why? Because they are fair an unbiased, and yes, WE DO know how it will effect us. Every state has crime, some more then others, but when a place like Chicago, which until recently had no carry law, but on of the the highest murder rates, it seems very clear to me. Now I realize it's hard to compare states with one another, and the dynamics of different cities, but there are hard numbers out there, you just have to go to the right agencies, as opposed to pro, or anti gun groups.

And here you highlight the problem I suspect Mayhem is missing - FBI statistics are telling us numbers, not meanings. When you say "which until recently had no carry law, but on of the the highest murder rates, it seems very clear to me", this is plain bias - and I don't mean that as a dig or insult, just what it is - because of the very next thing you mention: "Now I realize it's hard to compare states with one another, and the dynamics of different cities..." Exactly. With the central authorities tasked to look into it (mainly the ATF and CDC) essentially neutered on the subject, we have lots of people looking at numbers and drawing the conclusions they want to see.

That's why we need good research. As you yourself admit, far, far more factors come into play with regards to Chicago (and everywhere else, of course) than whether or not it has X gun law.

Here's an article that illustrates what I mean:
http://www.snopes.com/crime/statistics/ausguns.asp

 

[Mayhem]

And here you highlight the problem I suspect Mayhem is missing - FBI statistics are telling us numbers, not meanings. When you say "which until recently had no carry law, but on of the the highest murder rates, it seems very clear to me", this is plain bias - and I don't mean that as a dig or insult, just what it is - because of the very next thing you mention: "Now I realize it's hard to compare states with one another, and the dynamics of different cities..." Exactly. With the central authorities tasked to look into it (mainly the ATF and CDC) essentially neutered on the subject, we have lots of people looking at numbers and drawing the conclusions they want to see.

That's why we need good research. As you yourself admit, far, far more factors come into play with regards to Chicago (and everywhere else, of course) than whether or not it has X gun law.

Here's an article that illustrates what I mean:
http://www.snopes.com/crime/statistics/ausguns.asp

No, I'm not missing any part of the problem. Once again, I've got 25+ years researching the problem. I was an NRA member briefly back in the 1980s and have not been a member of any PAC since. I don't look for stats that fit my worldview. I research it all and let the information itself influence me.

FBI statistics are telling us numbers, not meanings.

It's not anyone's fault but your own that you can't take the mountains of information that is immediately available and make use of it. If you wish to remain fixated on the CDC, that is your choice, and it is yours alone. But it's not your tax dollar that funds it, it's mine. I want them concentrating on germs, microbes, DNA, RNA and stem cells. Guns, airbags in cars, toys that turn out to be dangerous for kids; these all have their own departments. And if you got your wish starting tomorrow, what do you think it would accomplish? I can tell you. It would cause the people you don't like, many of whom are the people I don't like, to go after the CDC and hamper their ability to do the jobs I've illustrated already. The distinguished Senator from somewhere stupid, who sits on the Budget Committee would use it as an excuse to hamper the CDC's ability to do the work that they were created to do. There goes AIDS, there goes breast cancer, autism research, mutated influenza and everything else. All because Rattrap couldn't or wouldn't understand what is already out there.

 

[Rattrap]

No, I'm not missing any part of the problem. Once again, I've got 25+ years researching the problem. I was an NRA member briefly back in the 1980s and have not been a member of any PAC since. I don't look for stats that fit my worldview. I research it all and let the information itself influence me.

All right then. What does your research predict the effect Georgia's law will have?

 

[Mayhem]

I don't give two shits what happens in Georgia, as well as Alabama and Mississippi. Those backward Creationist fucks can all die by the most expedient means for all I care. I'm responding to your assertion that because the CDC is unable to publish stats on guns, no stats are available, or that the stats from other sources somehow lack legitimacy.

Whatever happens, happens. If one college girl doesn't get abducted, raped and murdered, then it's all good, regardless what else happens. If the criminal element is forced to stay in the shadows and be a quantifyable amount more fearful, mission accomplished. This did, in fact happen when Florida instituted its concealed carry law. But what also happened (if anyone recalls) was there was a sharp upsurge in crime directed at tourists. Many of whom had just gotten off the plane, which was how/why they were targeted. Ooops. Sorry. But that's the way it goes. It's a dangerous and non-civilized world. But I look at too much news worldwide that comes at the expense of an unarmed populace. And historically speaking, I look at places like Europe where for centuries, the leading cause of death, torture, suffering and privation was the various governments. And this is why when British, French and above all, Germans think they have a leg to stand on when they criticize our 2nd Amendment, it tends to get an immediate response from me.

 

[Jagger69]

This is the one that disappoints me Jag. I understand you have points of view on this subject, and they differ from some...me included, but this is exactly what every anti gun group screams, when a new pro gun law is passed, and it's what they've screamed every time a new state has been added to the list of states that allow concealed carry....but it's never happened! I'm a little surprised you would throw that out there.

Aww c'mon, rev....I made that analogy because everyone in Dodge City (at least in the movies) carried a 6-gun on their hip. I'm not screaming anything. Just pointing out that it appears that Georgia is about to bear some similarities....that's all.

Damn....you gun nuts are a sensitive lot. LOL....j/k.

 

[Rattrap]

And this is why when British, French and above all, Germans think they have a leg to stand on when they criticize our 2nd Amendment, it tends to get an immediate response from me.

...not to mention Americans you confuse for British, French, or German for the everytime-we've-done-this-dance'th time. And if you can show me where I've criticized the 2nd Amendment in this conversation, I'll send the NRA $100 today. I'm sure they take Paypal.

Listen, I know how you are regarding, to borrow from Rey, your sacred cow. Talking to you about guns is like talking to Harry Reid about the Democratic party. I won't make the mistake again.

Damn....you gun nuts are a sensitive lot. LOL....j/k.

...after this, I wonder if you really are kidding...!

 

[Jagger69]

...after this, I wonder if you really are kidding...!

No....I was kidding for sure. If it's being taken some other way, well, then maybe the truth hurts?? :dunno:

Look....I'm a gun-owner myself. I have a shotgun and a .38 revolver in my house. However, I damn sure ain't taking that pistol with me everywhere I go. Hell, I have enough trouble keeping tabs on my fucking cell phone! The last thing I need to be worrying about is wearing a fucking holster. If I'm in a bar where I need to be packing heat, I'm in the wrong bar.

 

[Mr. Daystar]

Aww c'mon, rev....I made that analogy because everyone in Dodge City (at least in the movies) carried a 6-gun on their hip. I'm not screaming anything. Just pointing out that it appears that Georgia is about to bear some similarities....that's all.

Damn....you gun nuts are a sensitive lot. LOL....j/k.

Yeah, sometimes I am, but when it comes to you, one thing I can count on is level headed, well thought out reasoning, and while I do know you to have a pretty damn good sense of humor, I can't ever recall seeing it in this sort of context. So I would use the words surprised, or dumbfounded in this case. But as always at the very least I knew I could count on a respectful, non judgmental response. Maybe some of the gun grabbers that like to scream about attitudes should take a lesson from you, and see how we treat them.

Sorry I missed the joke.

 

[Mayhem]

Re: Georgia Passes Law That Allows "Guns Everywhere"

Listen, I know how you are regarding, to borrow from Rey, your sacred cow. Talking to you about guns is like talking to Harry Reid about the Democratic party. I won't make the mistake again.

I'm fascinated by this. Tell me, how am I, "regarding my sacred cow"? Illuminate me. All my life, I am the one pro-gunner who has no problem with the fact that people are always going to challenge my side. I have called out my own side time after time to quit taking the inevitable so damn personally. To this day, I've been called a lapdog and a traitor by the same people I've worked long hours to defend. So I stand ready for your inciteful psychological assessment of me. Sock it to me.

 

[Rattrap]

I'm fascinated by this. Tell me, how am I, "regarding my sacred cow"? Illuminate me. All my life, I am the one pro-gunner who has no problem with the fact that people are always going to challenge my side. I have called out my own side time after time to quit taking the inevitable so damn personally. To this day, I've been called a lapdog and a traitor by the same people I've worked long hours to defend. So I stand ready for your inciteful psychological assessment of me. Sock it to me.

I won't make the mistake again.

Enjoy your weekend! The sun here seems to have taken a vacation just in time for the weekend (standard), but I'll be trying to do the same nonetheless.

 

[Mayhem]

Typical. We'll be here, anytime you have a coherent thought to share with us. Just throw a little more effort than you did this time. As I've said many times in the past, there have been times when I've typed and deleted and many more times when I haven't typed at all. Now that the final misfit has been shoved out the airlock, it really shouldn't be too much to ask for the future discussions to be more elevated than what we've grown accustomed too.

 

[Rattrap]

Typical. We'll be here, anytime you have a coherent thought to share with us. Just throw a little more effort than you did this time. As I've said many times in the past, there have been times when I've typed and deleted and many more times when I haven't typed at all. Now that the final misfit has been shoved out the airlock, it really shouldn't be too much to ask for the future discussions to be more elevated than what we've grown accustomed too.

Oh Mayhem. I'll allow myself this one reply, because it isn't really about guns or the NRA, but you. The reason I'm not interested in discussing these topics with you any further is because you're not interested in discussing. You're not interested in debate. You're interested in crushing opposing opinions. It's not hard to see, although I'm certain you'll explain it away or downright deny it, for a reason I'll get to. That you start off trying to put words in my mouth, follow-up with saying that you aren't, and follow that up by explicitly putting more words in my mouth shows me you are not only not interested in a discussion, you're not even interested in what I'm saying. All that matters is that it's less than favorable to your golden cow. Did you notice you did this? I know you aren't stupid. I don't think you're disingenuous. What I find far more likely is that on this subject you have an acute lack of self-awareness. Already I know the denial system is bridling at the thought and in full swing.

I started this with a statement of facts and an opinion. One fact is well-reported and easily verifiable, but was quickly dismissed as a conspiracy theory. You offered two counter points to the other, yet when asked to support said points, all that came out was more dismissal. Nevermind the subtle attempts to lump me in with certain 'deficient' individuals in your posts. I could put all the effort in the world into what I say (backed with all the evidence in the world) and it wouldn't budge you. Because you're not interested in a debate. And I'm not interested in throwing away any more time.

So, once more, and I really do mean it: have a nice Sunday. I am, respectfully, done writing about this with you.

 

[Mayhem]

Once again I find myself amazed how the actions of someone turn into an accusation towards another. I am accused of putting words in your mouth while you cling to your notions of a sacred/golden cow. I have addressed many topics here much more stridently than this one. Perhaps a little less self-absorbtion on your part would make this clearer.

If I am so adept at crushing the opinions of others, perhaps it's because they are so easily crushed. You're trying to turn this around on to me, when it's apparent that your CDC rant held no substance whatsoever. Revidffum said the same thing but, no no, let's blame Mayhem.

I have clearly pointed out that I am interested in debate. I'm just not interested in a lame debate. Your original premise is ridiculous. The point you're trying to make is no point at all. No one is required to treat a nonexistent issue as a legitimate one. This is why I actually throw some thought into what I write before and during the process. This is why I sometimes write a lengthy diatribe and then highlight/delete it. And considering how often the debate shifts from the debate to what a big meany I am, I'd say I'm enjoying some success with it.

If I want neverending bullshit, I'll read the comments sections on HuffPost. The point you thought you were making was wrong. Just admit it and move on. The information tht you claim is unavailable is available, the stats you say you want are immediately accessible. If you think that there is information that the CDC would provide that isn't already located in any number of different venues, then you haven't presented any evidence how this is even possible, let alone real.