5 Million Illegals to Get Amenisty

This board included, I tend to like Mexicans a hell of a lot more than most gringos.

I also like innocent Mexicans more than manipulative politicians. I'd rather receive friendly service than have my heartstrings pulled and molested constantly. I never fault anyone for coming to America for a better life. Both sides of the political aisle have benefited through illegal immigration in their own way either by future voting demos or cheap labor for business. If you are angry focus your anger on the guilty, the same people who divide and conquer laughing at us behind our backs also getting caught calling us stupid on camera knowing many will "go along with the program" like zombies regardless.

ZombieSalute.gif

"#Must Obey..."
 
A legal action? And it is only 5 million getting to stay out of 11 million.

Is Obama's immigration action legal? A Q&A

Republicans say President Obama's executive action on immigration violates the Constitution. This Q&A explores the legal and political questions raised by the move.

Christian Science Monitor By Warren Richey
9 hours ago

President Obama has announced that he will use his executive authority as president to allow nearly 5 million illegal immigrants to remain in the US without facing the threat of deportation.

Republican leaders in Congress accuse Mr. Obama of failing to faithfully enforce US immigration laws and of plunging the country into a constitutional crisis.

Democrats maintain that the president is well within his authority to exert “prosecutorial discretion” in a way that shields large numbers of would-be immigrants from deportation.

What is 'prosecutorial discretion' and how does it relate to the enforcement of US immigration laws?

Under the Constitution, it is up to Congress to make laws, and it is the responsibility of the executive branch to faithfully enforce those laws.

Existing immigration law makes clear that those who arrive in the US illegally or who overstay their visa are subject to deportation. Estimates are that 11 million people are currently in this deportable category.

The basic idea of prosecutorial discretion is that a cop can’t be expected to enforce every law against every law breaker. Since there aren’t enough cops, prosecutors must exercise discretion and set enforcement priorities.

While some members of Congress favor strict enforcement of immigration laws, including stepped up deportations, the Obama administration since 2011 has sought to focus deportations on those illegal immigrants who have committed serious crimes.

The Obama administration says it is not rewriting the law, it is merely setting enforcement priorities.

A comprehensive immigration reform bill that passed the Senate last year would offer a pathway to citizenship for many of the immigrants affected by Obama's new executive action. But the bill has not been taken up in the House.

Is the president granting the equivalent of amnesty to illegal immigrants?

No. He is exercising discretion to defer enforcement action on a number of illegal immigrants who are otherwise eligible for deportation. He is not granting them legal resident status. He is merely moving them to the back of a very long line of potential deportees.

US immigration law, as currently written, grants this discretion to executive officials to take such “deferred action.”

But executive action does not carry the weight of a bill passed by both houses of Congress and signed by the president. A mere executive action can be reversed with the stroke of a pen wielded by Obama or a new president.

How does the president’s executive action compare to the relief granted in 2012 to the so-called Dreamers?

Two years ago, Obama took nearly identical action. He extended protections from deportation and allowed for the granting work permits to up to 1.2 million “Dreamers,” who came to the US with their parents as young children and have remained. Thursday’s action extends the protection from deportation to an additional 4 million illegal immigrants and increases the time-frame for that protection from two years to three years.

Among the newly-covered are an additional 700,000 Dreamers, and 3.3 million parents of a child who is a US citizen or a legal resident.

How can the president grant work permits for a class of individuals who are not legally authorized to be the in US?

Federal immigration law, as currently written, permits the secretary of Homeland Security to issue work permits to any illegal immigrant granted deferred action from deportation.

As of Thursday night, some 5 million illegal immigrants have now been granted deferred action status by the president. In response, federal immigration law clearly authorizes the Homeland Security secretary to issue work permits – in this case up to 5 million of them.

Of the 5 million illegal immigrants covered by the president’s executive action, how many will come forward to apply for deferred action status and claim a work permit?

That remains unclear. The president’s action is designed to encourage people who have been living illegally in the US to “come out of the shadows.” But it does not shield them from potential prosecution for identity theft or Social Security fraud. Those who are using a false identity to remain in the country might lose their job.

Of the 1.2 million Dreamers granted deferred action status in June 2012, only half – or roughly 600,000 – have so far come forward.

Have other presidents taken similar executive action in immigration cases?

Presidents Kennedy, Reagan, George H.W. Bush, and George W. Bush all used their executive authority to defer immigration enforcement against a class of non-citizens. But unlike Obama, each of those presidents was acting with the support of Congress rather than in defiance of congressional leaders.

The bottom line, however, is that immigration statutes – passed by Congress – authorize the president to use broad discretion.

What has the US Supreme Court said about the extent of presidential power when the executive branch acts on its own without congressional approval?

In a landmark 1952 case, the high court delivered an historic rebuke to then-President Truman amid his attempt to take over private steel mills during the Korean War.

Rather than working with Congress or within terms of an existing statute, Truman claimed the White House alone had the power necessary to seize and run the private mills.

The court said Truman overstepped his constitutional and statutory authority.

In an often-quoted concurring opinion, Justice Robert Jackson said presidential power is at its maximum when the president works pursuant to an express or implied authorization of Congress.

Is Obama's immigration action legal? A Q&A
Republicans say President Obama's executive action on immigration violates the Constitution. This Q&A explores the legal and political questions raised by the move.

President Obama has announced that he will use his executive authority as president to allow nearly 5 million illegal immigrants to remain in the US without facing the threat of deported.

Republican leaders in Congress accuse Mr. Obama of failing to faithfully enforce US immigration laws and of plunging the country into a constitutional crisis.

Recommended: Could you pass a US citizenship test?

Democrats maintain that the president is well within his authority to exert “prosecutorial discretion” in a way that shields large numbers of would-be immigrants from deportation.

What is 'prosecutorial discretion' and how does it relate to the enforcement of US immigration laws?

Under the Constitution, it is up to Congress to make laws, and it is the responsibility of the executive branch to faithfully enforce those laws.

Existing immigration law makes clear that those who arrive in the US illegally or who overstay their visa are subject to deportation. Estimates are that 11 million people are currently in this deportable category.

The basic idea of prosecutorial discretion is that a cop can’t be expected to enforce every law against every law breaker. Since there aren’t enough cops, prosecutors must exercise discretion and set enforcement priorities.

While some members of Congress favor strict enforcement of immigration laws, including stepped up deportations, the Obama administration since 2011 has sought to focus deportations on those illegal immigrants who have committed serious crimes.

The Obama administration says it is not rewriting the law, it is merely setting enforcement priorities.

A comprehensive immigration reform bill that passed the Senate last year would offer a pathway to citizenship for many of the immigrants affected by Obama's new executive action. But the bill has not been taken up in the House.

Is the president granting the equivalent of amnesty to illegal immigrants?

No. He is exercising discretion to defer enforcement action on a number of illegal immigrants who are otherwise eligible for deportation. He is not granting them legal resident status. He is merely moving them to the back of a very long line of potential deportees.

US immigration law, as currently written, grants this discretion to executive officials to take such “deferred action.”

But executive action does not carry the weight of a bill passed by both houses of Congress and signed by the president. A mere executive action can be reversed with the stroke of a pen wielded by Obama or a new president.

How does the president’s executive action compare to the relief granted in 2012 to the so-called Dreamers?

Two years ago, Obama took nearly identical action. He extended protections from deportation and allowed for the granting work permits to up to 1.2 million “Dreamers,” who came to the US with their parents as young children and have remained. Thursday’s action extends the protection from deportation to an additional 4 million illegal immigrants and increases the time-frame for that protection from two years to three years.

Among the newly-covered are an additional 700,000 Dreamers, and 3.3 million parents of a child who is a US citizen or a legal resident.

How can the president grant work permits for a class of individuals who are not legally authorized to be the in US?

Federal immigration law, as currently written, permits the secretary of Homeland Security to issue work permits to any illegal immigrant granted deferred action from deportation.

As of Thursday night, some 5 million illegal immigrants have now been granted deferred action status by the president. In response, federal immigration law clearly authorizes the Homeland Security secretary to issue work permits – in this case up to 5 million of them.

Of the 5 million illegal immigrants covered by the president’s executive action, how many will come forward to apply for deferred action status and claim a work permit?

That remains unclear. The president’s action is designed to encourage people who have been living illegally in the US to “come out of the shadows.” But it does not shield them from potential prosecution for identity theft or Social Security fraud. Those who are using a false identity to remain in the country might lose their job.

Of the 1.2 million Dreamers granted deferred action status in June 2012, only half – or roughly 600,000 – have so far come forward.

Have other presidents taken similar executive action in immigration cases?

Presidents Kennedy, Reagan, George H.W. Bush, and George W. Bush all used their executive authority to defer immigration enforcement against a class of non-citizens. But unlike Obama, each of those presidents was acting with the support of Congress rather than in defiance of congressional leaders.

The bottom line, however, is that immigration statutes – passed by Congress – authorize the president to use broad discretion.

What has the US Supreme Court said about the extent of presidential power when the executive branch acts on its own without congressional approval?

In a landmark 1952 case, the high court delivered an historic rebuke to then-President Truman amid his attempt to take over private steel mills during the Korean War.

Rather than working with Congress or within terms of an existing statute, Truman claimed the White House alone had the power necessary to seize and run the private mills.

The court said Truman overstepped his constitutional and statutory authority.

In an often-quoted concurring opinion, Justice Robert Jackson said presidential power is at its maximum when the president works pursuant to an express or implied authorization of Congress.

In contrast, he said: “When the President takes measures incompatible with the expressed or implied will of Congress, his power is at its lowest ebb, for then he can rely only upon his own constitutional powers minus any constitutional powers of Congress over the matter.”

Current immigration statutes permitting broad presidential discretion suggest the president is acting within his authority.

More recently, in a 2012 decision in a case called Arizona v. United States, the Supreme Court acknowledged this wide latitude.

“A principal feature of the removal system is the broad discretion exercised by immigration officials,” the court said.

Given Congressional opposition, how might lawmakers try to limit the president’s use of executive discretion?

Beginning next year, the Republican-controlled House and Senate could pass their own version of comprehensive immigration reform and see if the president is willing to sign it or negotiate an acceptable compromise.

Congress might refuse to approve any presidential nominations until Obama rescinds his executive action.

The House of Representatives and the Senate could amend US immigration law to eliminate executive discretion in this area and repeal authorization to issue work permits. But Obama is likely to veto such a law. It is not clear whether Republicans in Congress could assemble the necessary votes to override a veto.

Congress might tack riders onto the Department of Homeland Security’s appropriations bill. This is what Congress has done to counter Obama’s plan to close the terror prison camp at Guantànamo by bringing Al Qaeda suspects to the US for trial and detention. For several years, a Defense Department appropriations rider has barred the use of federal funds to bring any Guantànamo detainee to the US.

In the context of immigration, a rider might be attached to the Homeland Security appropriations bill barring the use of federal money to support the issuing of deferred action status to illegal immigrants – including issuing work authorization cards.

This action may not be effective, however, since the immigration program is designed to function almost entirely on self-generated fees. But even if effective barriers could be erected, they would likely draw a presidential veto.

Does Congress have any legal recourse?

It is unclear whether individual members of Congress would have legal standing to file a lawsuit. To establish standing, senators and House members must be able to demonstrate that they have suffered a personal, concrete injury, rather than merely a policy disagreement. Some legal analysts have suggested a potential lawsuit challenging the president’s actions on grounds that it violates the Constitution’s required separation of powers.

Texas and Oklahoma have pledged to file lawsuits challenging the president’s executive action on immigration. The Texas suit is expected to ask a federal judge to find that the president’s unilateral actions violate Article I, Section 8, of the Constitution, which assigns to Congress the exclusive power to “establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization.”

The suit will also argue that President Obama is failing to abide by the Constitution’s command that the president “take Care that the Laws be faithfully executed.”

How might the administration respond in court?

Government lawyers will argue that the president is fully authorized to take executive action both by the Constitution and within immigration law. All presidents are entitled to exercise discretion when deciding how best to execute the laws, and Obama is no different.

Are there any limits on the president’s ability to use executive discretion to pursue his own immigration policy?

Administration lawyers suggest that one constraint is that any deferred action must be undertaken on a case-by-case basis, not in a single wholesale decision. That provides a safeguard against abuse of discretion by the president, they argue.

Critics counter that it remains unclear at what point executive discretion crosses the line and becomes an unlawful abdication of president’s duty to enforce the law.

What other recourse is available to Congress?

Congress could refuse to allocate any money to the executive branch and force a government shutdown until the president rescinded his action.

Congress could also undertake impeachment proceedings.

Republican leaders have said they will not pursue either of these courses of action.
 
Yeah, that's not how congress works. Bills have to originate in the House.

No, you're wrong. Only bills relating to revenue must originate in the house. Last year the senate passed an immigration bill 68-32. It then moved on to the house where it's since died under GOP control. So as I said earlier, if the GOP is unhappy with Obama's actions all Boehner has to do is call for a vote on the bill
 
This will surely help Obama's 2016 election bid.

touche', Sir Stan :1orglaugh

I don't understand how can it be about votes.

I don't much either, being as with or without this EO the Democratic Party can already count on carrying the Hispanic vote, as they have for a long time.

2012 71%
2008 67%
2004 60%
2000 62%
1996 72%
1992 61%
1988 69%
1984 61% (despite Reagan's landslide victory)
1980 59%
 

Jagger69

Three lullabies in an ancient tongue
This executive action by President Obama is really disgusting. It's all about votes in the end. If the vast majority of those illegals were potential GOP voters, the illegals would have been rounded up and deported in 2009.

That's a total crock of shit. The logistics and cost of tracking down and deporting 10 million illegal aliens is untenable regardless of party. It was that way when Bush was president and it's that way now. An alternative solution was needed and the president acted. Once again, the republicans "do nothing" approach to government is manifested but now, with absolutely no votes on the line as Stan so eloquently elucidated to us, Obama did the right thing and put the country in a position to finally move ahead on this issue. I'm no big Obama fan by any stretch but the republicans have control of congress now so the days of simply whining and bitching are over. They need to start offering real solutions instead of simply acting as obstructionists. As the president said, "pass a bill" for chrissakes.
 
I want to see all illegal aliens rounded up and sent back. It is not fair to those that came legally. That's the way my grandparents got here and most of your's too. It's a slap in their faces to grant amnesty which this order really is

Did they come through Ellis Island? Because if they did, they were illegal immigrants. I think it's time we de-romanticize the Ellis Island immigrant stories that everyone likes to tell. Back then you couldn't pick up a phone or go on a website to fill out a visa form. In fact, up until 1918 the U.S didn't require passports. You simply got on a boat and arrived at ports of entry(mainly Ellis Island) and it was there where immigrants were inspected and had to pass various tests to determine whether they could stay or would have to be sent back to their country of origin. You gotta remember there wasn't any federal regulation of immigration laws at the time. There were virtually no laws to break and no regulation as a result. So I wouldn't exactly call that legal immigration.
 

bobjustbob

Proud member of FreeOnes Hall Of Fame. Retired to
Sure there were no federal regulations. People weren't flooding in before then because they couldn't get here. Once steamships to cross the Atlantic came about were volumes of people coming in. They spread to areas that were able to handle growth. Remember that we were still a growing nation. The industrial revolution. You had to be prepared to handle the task of setting up new digs. No welfare or free medical or housing food stamps was built into the system. You didn't come here if you had no place to go. Have a job ready to take, have a few bucks to set up a business. Either way you needed to have someone waiting for you to set you up.
 

Legzman

what the fuck you lookin at?
This is a blatant slap to the face of the american people. So illegals get to stay? And this dipshit has the gall to say it isn't amnesty? The fuck it isn't! I do agree rounding up all illegals and sending them back is ridiculous. But when you catch em entering the country...:brick: ....SEND THEM THE FUCK BACK!!!!! Or oh fuck I dunno, how about we secure our motherfucking borders and then debate what to do with the refugees.

Then there's the whole legality issue. He can't just make laws all on his own without congress. He has a some authority beyond congress but it does not include outright making laws. Gonna be a long 2 years with king obama in charge.
 
This is a blatant slap to the face of the american people. So illegals get to stay? And this dipshit has the gall to say it isn't amnesty? The fuck it isn't! I do agree rounding up all illegals and sending them back is ridiculous. But when you catch em entering the country...:brick: ....SEND THEM THE FUCK BACK!!!!! Or oh fuck I dunno, how about we secure our motherfucking borders and then debate what to do with the refugees.

Then there's the whole legality issue. He can't just make laws all on his own without congress. He has a some authority beyond congress but it does not include outright making laws. Gonna be a long 2 years with king obama in charge.

Did you make a conscious decision to come on here tonight and post the stupidest shit you could come up with? Constitutional lawyers from both sides agree that he's within his rights, but of course you know better. This isn't a slap in anybody's face, it's a president finally doing what the majority of America elected him to do. Comprehensive immigration reform passed the senate a long time ago, but your buddies in the house refused to put it to a vote because they knew the people wanted it. As for securing the border, it's included as part of the plan. Do you even have any idea what the order entails?
 
This is a blatant slap to the face of the american people. So illegals get to stay? And this dipshit has the gall to say it isn't amnesty? The fuck it isn't! I do agree rounding up all illegals and sending them back is ridiculous. But when you catch em entering the country...:brick: ....SEND THEM THE FUCK BACK!!!!! Or oh fuck I dunno, how about we secure our motherfucking borders and then debate what to do with the refugees.

Then there's the whole legality issue. He can't just make laws all on his own without congress. He has a some authority beyond congress but it does not include outright making laws. Gonna be a long 2 years with king obama in charge.

"secure our motherfucking borders" doesn't solve much since many fly into the US on tourist or student visas and just don't leave.
How are you going to legally deport more of them, if they don't tell you where they are from? I'm not being a smart ass here, it's a question I asked my cousin who is a prosecutor for ICE on the US/Mexico border. Even if they catch someone 1/2 mile from the border, no paperwork and only speak Spanish that's not enough evidence to deport them to Mexico. Mexico doesn't take everyone the US doesn't want, they have to say they are Mexican.
The President didn't make any law yesterday it was "deportation protection"/"Deferred Action" not amnesty. It's legal and FAR LESS than what Reagan did in '86 or Bushs. If Congress doesn't like it they can just pass a law.
 
Did they come through Ellis Island? Because if they did, they were illegal immigrants. I think it's time we de-romanticize the Ellis Island immigrant stories that everyone likes to tell. Back then you couldn't pick up a phone or go on a website to fill out a visa form. In fact, up until 1918 the U.S didn't require passports. You simply got on a boat and arrived at ports of entry(mainly Ellis Island) and it was there where immigrants were inspected and had to pass various tests to determine whether they could stay or would have to be sent back to their country of origin. You gotta remember there wasn't any federal regulation of immigration laws at the time. There were virtually no laws to break and no regulation as a result. So I wouldn't exactly call that legal immigration.

You would be wrong. They weren't illegal because they went through the current process which was to go through Ellis Island.
Also, if a law is not prohibiting something you are not breaking it. This is a foundational concept. Just because Tim Berners-Lee wasn't born yet doesn't retroactively make someone an illegal alien.


Ok. However, even though Native Americans had the best light cavalry the world has ever seen, they still had their collective asses handed to them. They lost. Its unfair. its over. If you could get it on the ballot I would vote not to turn back the hands of time. I get the drama of the point. Beyond that it is off point.

This is a blatant slap to the face of the american people. So illegals get to stay? And this dipshit has the gall to say it isn't amnesty? The fuck it isn't! I do agree rounding up all illegals and sending them back is ridiculous. But when you catch em entering the country...:brick: ....SEND THEM THE FUCK BACK!!!!! Or oh fuck I dunno, how about we secure our motherfucking borders and then debate what to do with the refugees.

Then there's the whole legality issue. He can't just make laws all on his own without congress. He has a some authority beyond congress but it does not include outright making laws. Gonna be a long 2 years with king obama in charge.


The fun thing here is that the sides do not argue the same points, right? Who is right? I don't know. Who is wrong? I think everyone.

IMHO, The order isn't a bad intention, so everyone on the left can defend the intention of it and be right.

The order is a bit more heavy handed the Reagan and Bush's. Even though there are over 200 plus bills stuck in the Senate, Congress has failed to take action on this. So the right can rightfully argue this was done single-handed by the President and that isn't democratic and the President can argue that Congress hasn't taken action. (He should argue collectively Congress hasn't taken action, but he argues The House. -- Feel free to argue who is more wrong with me. I don't care.)

To me, this is a symptom of this administration. They do some well intended things avoiding the hard work of getting buy-in from the opposition. You could argue, if they are able to legally do it, then they are just being effective. Ok, then don't whine when the opposition shuts you down legally as well.

I actually like what is being done in the executive order. However, when I see the opposition say to take care of our veteran situation first, I think, they have a point. Perhaps if there was a genuine attempt to work together they would prioritize what will be done. That hasn't been the case since the beginning. Did it start with Obama? I think he is guilty of creating this environment for himself with the way he handled the AHCA. However, I can also draw a line back to Robert Bork.

We'll continue to pick it apart and only argue a single point and not address the overall problem of the opposite parties actually rolling up their sleaves, debating, arguing, and coming to imperfect agreements on what to do next. I don't think the Republican Congress is going to change anything. I don't think Obama has shown the leadership capabilities to even try.
 

Mr. Daystar

In a bell tower, watching you through cross hairs.
First thing is, they need to conform to the laws and language of America...and the ones that won't, or don't...we should send over to France, and let them stay at Johan's house.
 

Supafly

Retired Mod
Bronze Member
(Today's US Cizens) - (Native Americans aka Indian Americans) = (Shut The Fuck Up About The Right Of New People Coming In)

Just because your invading foreign territory is history does not make it more just than the NEW foreigners coming in NOW. If they, as your lawfully elected president puts it, are already living in your country, are productive (Taxpaying) citizens (Which is more than we can say about Google and other coompanies you allow to stay, and have children here, and pay a little fine, they are a lot better qualified than your ancestors who stole and murdered in the process.
 
(Today's US Cizens) - (Native Americans aka Indian Americans) = (Shut The Fuck Up About The Right Of New People Coming In)

Just because your invading foreign territory is history does not make it more just than the NEW foreigners coming in NOW. If they, as your lawfully elected president puts it, are already living in your country, are productive (Taxpaying) citizens (Which is more than we can say about Google and other coompanies you allow to stay, and have children here, and pay a little fine, they are a lot better qualified than your ancestors who stole and murdered in the process.

You normally make excellent point, but I lost it in the verbiage you posted.

Re: My ancestors who stole and murdered: 1- I'm not sure mine did. Mine are from Ireland. Maybe, but they didn't do it in the US. 2 - Is there any evidence that peaceful immigrants are more productive than the ones who stole and murdered? (said tongue in cheek)
 
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