*2017 European Elections* - Candidates, Statistics, Campaign Timelines, Debates

[georges]

Usually there's a debate between the 2 rounds. Chirac refused to debate with J.M. Lepen in 2002

Chirac wouldn't have been able to handle Lepen. Chirac's presidency was one of the worst, he was a cool person but he did nothing really meaningful for the country during 12 years.

 

[georges]

Hey Johan!

Any debates planned between Macron and Le Pen before the second round vote?

Macron won't be at the second round vote, he is integrating a lot of people from hollande's former staff and he has no real program aside shit and giggles. The medias are manipulating people as it was the case in the us election but people have seen enough of what 5 years of shitty and moronic socialism have given. The polls can't be trusted and should never be trusted. A lot of young people in France vote stupid but you can't fix stupid. The people with a brain won't vote for the left.Macron will never face le pen because she would tear him into bits and like all socialists he is a gutless cunt.

 

[rivasky]

you can't fix stupid..

Look who's talking. :georges:

 

[georges]

Look who's talking. :georges:

The one who has seen enough of the results of what 14 years of mitterandism and 5 years hollandism with their socialist based and failed promises as well as policies have brought to France. I started to be involved in Politics at the age of 16. I knew that I would never ever vote for the left. At the age of 18, when I got my voting card, I have never missed a single regional, legislative and presidential election. Enough people died during WWII for making it possible for others to have the right to vote. Ask any post1986 born noob in France, if he/she knows who were the collaborationnists and about De Gaulle, and you will see that most of them are vastly ignorant about it. That is why I said that you can't fix stupid. It is an undeniable fact. As proverb says it very well: "those who ignore the past are doomed to repat it."

 

[zeeblofowl_1969]

The one who has seen enough of the results of what 14 years of mitterandism and 5 years hollandism with their socialist based and failed promises as well as policies have brought to France. I started to be involved in Politics at the age of 16. I knew that I would never ever vote for the left. At the age of 18, when I got my voting card, I have never missed a single regional, legislative and presidential election. Enough people died during WWII for making it possible for others to have the right to vote. Ask any post1986 born noob in France, if he/she knows who were the collaborationnists and about De Gaulle, and you will see that most of them are vastly ignorant about it. That is why I said that you can't fix stupid. It is an undeniable fact. As proverb says it very well: "those who ignore the past are doomed to repat it."

Meh

 

[Johan]

 

[Johan]

French elections: all you need to know


As the final week of the most unpredictable campaign for years approaches, we look at what the leading candidates stand for and which one is most likely to win

What’s the story and why is it important ?

France elects a new president in two rounds of voting on 23 April and 7 May. Polls have forecast for more than two years that the populist, nationalist, authoritarian Marine Le Pen will advance to the run-off.
The polls also suggest Le Pen, who has promised to take France out of the euro and hold a referendum on France’s EU membership, would then lose to Emmanuel Macron, a former Socialist economy minister running as an independent centrist.
But the race is very tight. Both François Fillon, a former rightwing prime minister hit by an alleged corruption scandal, and Jean-Luc Mélenchon, a far-left veteran with a radical economic programme, could also make the final two.

In fact, with an estimated one-third of voters yet to make up their minds, polling inconsistencies and margins of error make it impossible to predict with certainty which two of the top four will face off in the final round.
After Britain’s Brexit vote and the election of Donald Trump in the US, a President Le Pen would deal a heavy symbolic blow to Europe, send markets into turmoil, and be seen as the next step in a populist, nativist insurgency.
A victory for the Eurosceptic Mélenchon would also seriously shake the establishment, while a Macron win could – after the defeat of Geert Wilders in March’s Dutch elections – point to a future for centrist, pro-European politics.


What’s the political landscape and how does the system work?

Eleven candidates, each backed by at least 500 mayors, MPs, MEPs or senators, have qualified for the first round. Assuming none wins a majority, the two highest scorers face off two weeks later. The winner needs more than 50% of the vote.
The two-round system, also used in parliamentary, local and regional polls, was introduced in 1962 by Charles de Gaulle and has proved effective at keeping extremists out of power: you vote first with your heart, the French say, then with your head.
Whoever wins, this is already an exceptional election: there is a very real possibility that neither of the traditional centre-right and centre-left parties that have governed France since the 1950s will be represented in the run-off.

Le Pen’s far-right Front National has been advancing steadily; it controls 14 town halls and has two MPs. In 2015’s regional polls it won 28% of the vote, its highest ever score. But France’s two-round system has so far kept it from power.

This year, with the leftwing Socialist party (PS) in disarray after the disastrous five-year term of the outgoing president, François Hollande, former prime minister Alain Juppé from the rightwing Les Républicains party was the early favourite.
But after unexpectedly defeating Juppé in the party’s primaries and taking over the mantle of frontrunner, Fillon, a self-styled “clean hands” candidate, was accused of giving his wife and children taxpayer-funded fake jobs.
After slipping badly in the polls, Fillon appears to have stabilised – while Mélenchon, helped by strong performances in two televised debates and a slick campaign, has surged.


Who are Macron and Le Pen and what do they want ?

After studying at the elite Sciences Po and École Nationale d’Administration, Emmanuel Macron, 39, was briefly a civil servant before becoming a Rothschild’s banker and then an adviser and economy minister in Hollande’s government.
He has never held elected office and says he wants to break the “complacency and vacuity” of French politics. An energetic optimist who claims to be neither left nor right but “pragmatic and fair”, he is economically liberal and pro-business but a progressive on social issues.

Marine Le Pen, 48, is the third daughter of FN founder Jean-Marie Le Pen, who made the run-off in 2002. A lawyer, she has both detoxified the party and distanced herself from it since taking over in a bitter power struggle in 2011.
Le Pen – who is also embroiled in a fake jobs scandal, but at the European parliament – wants to end immigration, slash crime, eradicate Islamism, pull France out of Europe and save it from globalisation.
Her “economic nationalism” will favour French business, she promises, while “France-first” social policies in housing, health, education and employment will favour French people.


Who are Fillon and Mélenchon and what do they want ?

Fillon, 63, was former president Nicolas Sarkozy’s prime minister for five years. An archetypal provincial French conservative, he appeals particularly to France’s Catholic right – still loyal, despite his legal woes – and its desire to preserve traditional family values.
Economically he is way more radical, promising shock Thatcherite reforms including cutting taxes and public spending, slashing public sector jobs, raising the retirement age, freeing up labour laws and breaking trade union power.

Mélenchon, 65, was a junior Socialist minister from 2000 to 2002. As the caustic, impassioned head of La France Insoumise (Untamed France), his policies include shortening the working week, lowering the retirement age, raising the minimum wage and social security benefits, and taxing top earners at 90%.
He also wants to abandon nuclear power, abolish the presidential regime of the Fifth Republic, and in foreign affairs withdraw from Nato, develop warmer ties with Russia, and renegotiate the terms of France’s EU membership – with the promise of an in-out referendum afterwards.

The official Socialist party candidate, leftwing rebel and former education minister Benoît Hamon, 49, has slumped as Mélenchon has risen. Aiming to move his party firmly to the left after Hollande’s dismal, muddled presidency, his most eye-catching policy is the introduction of a universal basic income.


What are the issues ?

The Paris and Nice terror attacks that claimed nearly 230 lives in 2015 and 2016 weigh heavily on this election and have helped Le Pen drag the agenda onto her preferred ground of security, immigration, Islam and national identity.
To this she and Mélenchon have added the questions of Europe – from whose yoke Le Pen argues France must free itself before it can flourish – and of an immoral, out-of-touch governing elite and sclerotic political system.
But this election is also, and perhaps mostly, about the persistent malaise of a country whose economy has stagnated for years now and where unemployment is stuck stubbornly above 10%. Labour laws, job creation, taxation and social and welfare provision are all key campaign themes.


Who will win?

Polls currently show Le Pen and Macron neck-and-neck in the first round, with Fillon and Mélenchon nipping at their heels between three and six points behind.
In the second round, Macron would beat Le Pen by 20 points or more, and also defeat Fillon and Mélenchon. Fillon would beat Le Pen but lose to either of the other two, while Mélenchon would beat Le Pen and Fillon but lose to Macron.

Most observers doubt Le Pen can win more than 50% of the second-round vote. But there are caveats. Her support is more solid: in surveys, Le Pen’s voters mostly say they are certain to support their chosen candidate; Macron’s tend not to be so sure.
There is no precedent for a Macron victory: no centrist has ever occupied the Elysée palace, nor any candidate running without the political and logistical backing of one of the traditional left or rightwing parties.

In past elections, the two-round system has allowed voters from both left and right to form a united “Republican front” against any FN candidate who makes it to the second round. So far, that pact has largely held.
But some observers worry it is now vulnerable. They say voters are so disaffected, and consider politicians so corrupt and ineffective, that the pact could be seen more as the political class saving its skin rather than a bulwark against extremism.
One recent survey showed 89% of French voters believe politicians do not listen to them. How angry, demoralised people vote will be decisive. And an unforeseen event, such as another major terrorist attack, could yet change the whole dynamic of the race.


What happens after the new president is elected ?

Without a majority in parliament, a French president’s powers are limited. Critically, a month after the second round of the presidential poll, France holds legislative elections, also over two rounds, on 11 and 18 June.
How those turn out will determine whether the new president can actually govern.

Macron, who will field candidates from his youthful En Marche! movement, would need to build a new kind of majority from however many of his own candidates win seats, plus centrist MPs from both sides of the political divide.
The FN, which currently has only two MPs, would be extremely unlikely to get anywhere near the 289 Le Pen would need for a majority in the assembly, effectively leaving her unable to run the country – a problem Mélenchon would also face.

Both may find it hard to implement their more radical proposals. For example, article 88-1 of the French constitution states that France is part of the EU. Constitutional change requires the backing of both the lower house and the senate, plus in some cases a referendum.
And while presidents can in principle call a referendum without parliamentary support, they need the approval of the constitutional court to do so. In practice, a plebiscite on leaving the EU may be difficult, if not impossible, for either to call.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/apr/04/french-elections-all-you-need-to-know

 

[Jack Davenport]

That's a fucked up system of government.

Our founding fathers got it right.

Le Pen 2017

 

[Johan]

What is fucked up ? The two-round system ?

At least our election is decided by the people and every citizen, wherever he lives, is equally important. Your fucked up election is decided by the people living in a hand-full of swing states, Republican votes in California or Democratic votes in Texas are just a waste of time for the voters.


Anyway, ifg you think our electoral system is fuicxked up, you should support Melenchon : he is the only one who vows to change it.

 

[Jack Davenport]

What is fucked up ? The two-round system ?

At least our election is decided by the people and every citizen, wherever he lives, is equally important. Your fucked up election is decided by the people living in a hand-full of swing states, Republican votes in California or Democratic votes in Texas are just a waste of time for the voters.


Anyway, ifg you think our electoral system is fuicxked up, you should support Melenchon : he is the only one who vows to change it.

Meh, the two round system is basically an expedited primary.

The fucked up part is not knowing how the newly elected president will govern until after the parliament elections and how that will shake out.

At least we know the makeup of our government the day after election day. Not 2 months later.

As for elections not being decided by the voters, you may have a point..

 

[Johan]

AfD's Frauke Petry will not stand as lead candidate in 2017 German elections


For many Germans, Frauke Petry is the face of right-wing populism in the country. But she announced on Wednesday that she's not interested in being her party's nominal chancellor candidate in September's election.

Frauke Petry, the co-chairwoman and most recognizable figure of the right-wing populist Alternative for Germany (AfD), dropped the latest of her patented bombshells on Wednesday via video on her facebook page.
"To end all the speculation in this area, I would like to take the opportunity in this video message to declare unambiguously that I am not available for a lead candidacy on my own nor for participation in a lead team," Petry said.
Petry also said that it was unclear whether a party like the AfD, which will likely end up in the hands of the opposition, needed a "largely symbolic" lead candidate. She added that this was one issue to be decided at this weekend's AfD conference in Cologne.

Petry made her surprise decision amidst reports that she was becoming increasingly isolated, after making an official "proposal for the future" that the party should agree on a binding strategy for Germany's national election on September 24. Her announcement could well launch another struggle for power within a party that has seen more than its fair share of leadership squabbles.


A split with the hardliners

Many people on the right wing of the AfD feel that Petry is too mainstream and power-hungry - that she is willing to compromise on the more aggressive anti-immigration, anti-EU elements of the populist movement in a bid not to scare off more moderate voters.

In her video statement, Petry disputed being a divisive force.
"Dear delegates, my proposal for our party conference in Cologne has raised quite a stir and created a lot of wild speculation the past few days," Petry said in her 12-minute message. "Critics of the proposal accuse me of splitting the AfD into two camps. Others fear that a democratic decision about a common strategy would exclude parts of the party and different positions. The absurd assertion that I'm interested in a coalition with the CDU has no basis whatsoever in reality."

Petry added that the AfD had suffered from the lack of an overarching strategy since the fall of 2015, when the party achieved its first major successes in local state elections. She said that the party's potential voters had sunk from 30 percent in 2015 to 14 percent now.
She said the party's public image was conditioned by the statements of individuals aiming at "maximum provocation." She acknowledged that differences of opinion about whether the party should strive for power, or be part of the opposition had led to "increasing internal tensions."

In recent months, Petry has been engaged in a high-profile feud with the head of the AfD in Thuringia- Björn Höcke- whom she would like to see banned from the party for alleged Nazi sympathies.


A hidden agenda ?

Petry's statement portrays her as someone willing to subordinate personal ambition for the good of the party. In her video message, she repeatedly claimed that individual party members pursuing individual interests had damaged the AfD's credibility with mainstream voters.
But there is certainly more to Petry's decision than just self-sacrifice. For the one thing, the 41-year-old is in an advanced state of pregnancy, which may be a factor given the strains of the campaign's final stages. Petry recently burst into tears at an event after facing criticism from detractors.

Significantly, Petry did not say that she was stepping down from her position as party co-chair. In the past, the trained chemist has seemed to retreat only to beat her rivals in contests for power at AfD party events. Such was the case, for instance, at a party conference in Essen in July 2015 when she outmaneuvered one of the AfD's co-founders to become its co-chair.
Petry's latest move throws wide open the question of who will determine the strategy for the party's election campaign. That will be something the AfD must sort out at this weekend's convention.

http://www.dw.com/en/afds-frauke-pe...candidate-in-2017-german-elections/a-38491524

 

[georges]

What is fucked up ? The two-round system ?

At least our election is decided by the people and every citizen, wherever he lives, is equally important. Your fucked up election is decided by the people living in a hand-full of swing states, Republican votes in California or Democratic votes in Texas are just a waste of time for the voters.

Anyway, ifg you think our electoral system is fuicxked up, you should support Melenchon : he is the only one who vows to change it.

The ones who voted for Hollande were mostly idiots, foreigners (who for the most are healthcare, free social security and social housing leech offs) and civil servants who didn't want their privileges to be removed. Melenchon is an alcoholic douchebag and a trotskist from the far left with no real economic program for France. I have enough of socialist shit heads and leftists in general.
The left has screwed the county many times, no more left ever again.

 

[Johan]

The left has screwed the county many times, no more left ever again.

Yep, the left has repeatedly fooled the country, the people. They fooled them by telling the they were the Left and they would conduct a left-wing policy. In 1981, Mitterrand promised to conduct a real socialist policy for 7 years. Less than 2 years after he was backing-down to a centrist policy.
During his camapaign, in a famous speech, Hollande identified finance as his "enemy". 2 years later, Emmanuel Macron, former Rotschild banker, was named Minister of the Economy. I'm not complaining because I always thoght Hollande's campaign was too much to the Left and I never trusted he would deliver thr radical-lefts promises he had made. But many socialist did and they were lied to, screwed. They voted for a socialist candidate and they ended up with a barely center-left president

The problem wit french politics is that our politicians have no spine.
They write a bill, then they think "the unions will never agree with this, we have to cut the most economicaly liberal part of it".
Then the bill is presented and the unions are aangry at it, so the government start to negotiate. They cut some parts of the bill and the most reasonable (which are also the less numerous) of the unions are OK with it but not the most radicals so they start a series of strikes and protest in the street.
To appease them the government tries to cut other parts of the bills the the unions say it's not enough, they say they want that bill to be gone.
The government uses the 49.3 to force the bill to pass in the Assemblée and the Senat and when it's over they celebrate, claiming they passed a very important bill. The problem is the original bill was a good one but it's been cut so much since that it's not gonna deliver any result.
And then when the bill fail to deliver any result, the union can claim it's because it was a terrible bill from the start

 

[Straight Shooter]

Police officer killed in Paris. This will lead to Le Pen's victory. This is exactly the kind of shit she's been talking about. Le Pen 2017. Make France Great Again

 

[sean miguel]

all politics all the time.

 

[Jack Davenport]

Ever notice that Ice only sweats terror attacks for the political ramifications?

 

[sean miguel]

noticed.

 

[Jack Davenport]

 

[Johan]

Marine Le Pen gets poll boost after Paris attack as Donald Trump says her chances of victory have improved

Your gus know first hand that poll numbers don't mean much...
If pollsters were trustworthy, you would now live under President Hillary Clinton.


And, in case you think french pollsters are more trustworthy than US polsters, I would submit this to you :
Emmanuel Macron increases lead against Marine Le Pen: poll
http://www.politico.eu/article/emmanuel-macron-increases-lead-against-marine-le-pen-poll/

 

[Jack Davenport]

Dude, I simply posted a screenshot of Drudge Report.

They seem to be enjoying the suspense.

The title was clever.