No debate with me on that one....Enforce laws against those who employ them and we won't have to round them up and send them back to where they come from....they will go home themselves. Just like they have been doing since the economic downturn. No work means they go back home.
Why Should I Care About California?
- Thread starter don_equis
- Start date
No debate with me on that one....Enforce laws against those who employ them and we won't have to round them up and send them back to where they come from....they will go home themselves. Just like they have been doing since the economic downturn. No work means they go back home.
Part of the problem with assuming that illegals contribute back to the resources they drain is that one would have to assume that if they weren't here that other people that aren't illegal wouldn't fill in and contribute that money in there place. That doesn't seem like a very strong position to take.
An even bigger concern is, even if there is no hard evidence showing an exact dollar amount they cost, just on a purely logical legal I have a very hard time believing they contribute anything remotely close to what they drain from society's resources, which we do have some figures on. Most of them don't have high paying jobs, so it's not like they are paying huge amounts in taxes in the first place. Even then I'm sure the average illegal avoids paying a lot more taxes of what they should than somebody that isn't considering so many get paid under the table. A lot of them send money to other places where somebody that isn't illegal probably spends nearly all of it where they are, and they probably generally need more public services considering the position they are in. On a logical level, I just don't see them contributing any more than a small fraction of what the state has to pay to support them.
An even bigger concern is, even if there is no hard evidence showing an exact dollar amount they cost, just on a purely logical legal I have a very hard time believing they contribute anything remotely close to what they drain from society's resources, which we do have some figures on. Most of them don't have high paying jobs, so it's not like they are paying huge amounts in taxes in the first place. Even then I'm sure the average illegal avoids paying a lot more taxes of what they should than somebody that isn't considering so many get paid under the table. A lot of them send money to other places where somebody that isn't illegal probably spends nearly all of it where they are, and they probably generally need more public services considering the position they are in. On a logical level, I just don't see them contributing any more than a small fraction of what the state has to pay to support them.
One economic consideration seems to be missing in this discussion. How much does the dirt cheap labor of illegal immigrates reduce the cost of good they produce. I would think things like food and clothing would be a hell of a lot more expensive. Anyone for a five dollar potato. This certainly reduces the financial impact of illegal immigration and benefits all of us.
Now, now. That's not spoken like a true liberal.
It's the illegal-criminal South American-invader-aliens that are ruining the state of Kalifornia:
That's a bullshit cop out thing to say! Is this something you heard and are repeating because last time I looked around I didn't see Americans lining up to pick fruit! If your pissed that some immigrant not invader! who can't read write or speak the language took your job then your the problem! and before you call us Invaders do some research! Americans invaded Mexico!
This whole issue about blaming Mexican immigrants for all of California's financial downfall really pisses me off. We elected the star of "Kindergarden Cop" to run this state. Does anyone realize that can be part of the problem!! Half of the things this guy says off dummy cards, and they are still f-ed up! This is just one of his dumb ass quotes on gay marriage... "I think that gay marriage should be between a man and a woman." He is as smart as Bush!! ( not a complement )
If Mexican immigrants were to blame for all of California's issues then the state of Texas would be in the same predicament! You really can't listen to every word the government says! It's there way of saying "Hey! Look over there! So you don't see us spending all of your tax dollars on our vacations and million dollar bonuses.
All of you forget we are all immigrants to this country originally. Only Native americans and Mexicans are not immigrants (of which I happen to be part of both!)
Sometimes we all need a reminder that plaque at the bottom of the Statue of Liberty reads:
Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,
With conquering limbs astride from land to land;
Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand
A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame
Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name
Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand
Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command
The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.
"Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she
With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!
It doesn't say EXCEPT Mexicans when it is convenient for us!
If Mexican immigrants were to blame for all of California's issues then the state of Texas would be in the same predicament! You really can't listen to every word the government says! It's there way of saying "Hey! Look over there! So you don't see us spending all of your tax dollars on our vacations and million dollar bonuses.
All of you forget we are all immigrants to this country originally. Only Native americans and Mexicans are not immigrants (of which I happen to be part of both!)
Sometimes we all need a reminder that plaque at the bottom of the Statue of Liberty reads:
Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,
With conquering limbs astride from land to land;
Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand
A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame
Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name
Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand
Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command
The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.
"Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she
With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!
It doesn't say EXCEPT Mexicans when it is convenient for us!
Wainkerr99
Closed Account
This may shock you, but, well, under the previous South African President, Thabo Mbeki, those mofo's would have landed up booted out of office so fast their hair would've automatically straightened.
Now that is bad, considering African corruption.
Philbert
Banned
With all due respect, if you wanna return to the past, Spain invaded the Southern Continent and stole the land from the Inca, the Maya, the Toltec, the Aztec...and we have a moral obligation to liberate the rightful owners from the invaders.
Returning to the present, with Mexico a sovereign state along with the United States, there are millions of illegal border crossers coming in illegally to the US from Mexico; settling in like locusts using fake and stolen IDs to take jobs of every kind while using said fake and stolen IDs to fill the welfare rolls; 3 or 4 families living in 1 family dwellings using Apt #1, #2, etc to get multiple welfare payments and using the emergency rooms for regular medical care, and just never paying their bill.
The last time I checked their was no need for 10,000,000 fruit pickers anywhere, and there are Americans lining up for jobs that Mexicans are taking at $6 and $8 an hour 'cause they have almost no cash expenses like American citizens do.
I have been in new houses where no one spoke English, I have been in old houses where there was a bed and possessions in every closet and corner; I'm not sure where you live but many ratty apt complexes here are filled with 2 and 3 families living in small 1 bedroom apartments, with high Dollar pickups and cars parked outside.
In the US, that is considered an unlivable condition, in Mexico that's Middle Class.
Doctors get paid, medicine costs money to restock, so the hospitals are going bankrupt from the drain. States are paying out for schools and services with a shrinking tax base to pay for it all...not to mention the cost of illegal immigrant crime and foreclosure rates for houses and cars.
So, if you think Americans are flooding into Mexico by the millions and we are blessed by having 10,000,000+ fruit pickers hanging around waiting for harvest season, I would suggest you stop listening to so-called pro-Immigration propaganda and do some actual research.
Mexican-Americans are a great part of the melting pot that is the US of A; illegals are not.
PS... My ancestors came in legally, and you seem to be confusing legal immigrants with illegal ones. The key is allowed in vs snuck over the border.
of course, americans only go to mexico to drink and act like idiots or avoid prosecution (i'm not sure why since the extradite...unless you pay off the locals). also 'their' cartels run on our drug money and they simply love our guns.
http://www.reuters.com/article/domesticNews/idUSTRE52R20O20090328
as for california...what can i say? our state government is retarded apparently. california easily falls in the top ten largest economies in the world (even with all the current market troubles) and yet somehow the government has managed to bankrupt us.
http://www.reuters.com/article/domesticNews/idUSTRE52R20O20090328
as for california...what can i say? our state government is retarded apparently. california easily falls in the top ten largest economies in the world (even with all the current market troubles) and yet somehow the government has managed to bankrupt us.
Oh god what happened?
Philbert
Banned
Obviously you are speaking only for yourself...I have been to and through Mexico many times, and I spent almost no time in border towns.
And if you like drunken idiots you'll love the atmosphere at any of the many Latino clubs everywhere the Spanish speaking gather, especially Friday and Saturday nights.
I especially like the neighborhoods on the same nights...except there are more guns going off than at the Clubs.
Viva La Raza!:rofl:
Wainkerr99
Closed Account
The matter of whether or not Hispanic immigrants should or should not, did or did not, coulda shoulda woulda is irrelevant, imo.
Here in Portland you cannot easily get a job. It isn't just California and Texas. It is Oregon too.
I really could not give a flying fuck that some poor suffering Mexican who feels he has a right to so much finds work and pays some tax.
Every day there is an enormous line of immigrants outside the local Mexican embassy here.
WTF?????
I care that tonight a black guy came up to me at College asking whether I knew of any work. A black guy. The one politically correct demographic that is supposed to automatically be guaranteed work.
I told him the sad news.
I even tried finding a job turning over hamburger patties. Heck I walk into Burger King to see a dozen Hispanic faces look up at me. I try get a job at a warehouse, same thing.
Yes, these people have a right to work, a right to live. They have a right to free medical care simply because they are human beings, and because there was, should be and would have been plenty of money available for that.
However, whether they pay a bit of tax is not relevant to the situation.
The fact is right now charity begins at home. The nice liberal sentiments can come later when things are sorted out.
Here is an idea. Call me crazy. Instead of hiring Paulo to work in my garden, I send my son over to live in Mexico so he can learn their culture. Paulo's son can come live with me as an exchange student.
What I am saying is there should be a system whereby the American know how and expertise can be used to help build up Mexico so they can live their own bloody lives in their own bloody country for a change.
Maybe that has happened. I don't know. It doesn't seem like it. There has been too much whinging about illegals, being nice to others, the old saw of America for everybody, guns at the borders, millions spent on preventing immigration.
Rather go there, help them farm, do whatever, so we can have a powerful neighbour.
Oh, hang on, isn't Mexico one of the richest countries in the world?
Hmmmm.
Racism, illegal or that is now irrelevant. What matters now is that there are millions of unemployed Americans who have let things slide for too long for some unfathomable reason. We might never get those job openings back. Chances are we will never be offered employment in Mexico, either.
The economy should have been strong enough to withstand a bit of battering from the Enron debacle. Everything cannot always hang upon a thread.
Enough is enough. Now we have to get out there and compete. We have to take what is ours and no longer feel guilty about ousting some immigrant whether they are Asian, Russian or Mexican.
Here in Portland you cannot easily get a job. It isn't just California and Texas. It is Oregon too.
I really could not give a flying fuck that some poor suffering Mexican who feels he has a right to so much finds work and pays some tax.
Every day there is an enormous line of immigrants outside the local Mexican embassy here.
WTF?????
I care that tonight a black guy came up to me at College asking whether I knew of any work. A black guy. The one politically correct demographic that is supposed to automatically be guaranteed work.
I told him the sad news.
I even tried finding a job turning over hamburger patties. Heck I walk into Burger King to see a dozen Hispanic faces look up at me. I try get a job at a warehouse, same thing.
Yes, these people have a right to work, a right to live. They have a right to free medical care simply because they are human beings, and because there was, should be and would have been plenty of money available for that.
However, whether they pay a bit of tax is not relevant to the situation.
The fact is right now charity begins at home. The nice liberal sentiments can come later when things are sorted out.
Here is an idea. Call me crazy. Instead of hiring Paulo to work in my garden, I send my son over to live in Mexico so he can learn their culture. Paulo's son can come live with me as an exchange student.
What I am saying is there should be a system whereby the American know how and expertise can be used to help build up Mexico so they can live their own bloody lives in their own bloody country for a change.
Maybe that has happened. I don't know. It doesn't seem like it. There has been too much whinging about illegals, being nice to others, the old saw of America for everybody, guns at the borders, millions spent on preventing immigration.
Rather go there, help them farm, do whatever, so we can have a powerful neighbour.
Oh, hang on, isn't Mexico one of the richest countries in the world?
Hmmmm.
Racism, illegal or that is now irrelevant. What matters now is that there are millions of unemployed Americans who have let things slide for too long for some unfathomable reason. We might never get those job openings back. Chances are we will never be offered employment in Mexico, either.
The economy should have been strong enough to withstand a bit of battering from the Enron debacle. Everything cannot always hang upon a thread.
Enough is enough. Now we have to get out there and compete. We have to take what is ours and no longer feel guilty about ousting some immigrant whether they are Asian, Russian or Mexican.
nah never went to mexico, but the only people i've known who wanted to go there was so they could drink. also i don't think visiting mexico to drink would do me any good, since i don't drink. i visited our cooler neighbor...canada...and i literally mean cooler, it was fucking cold!
I am surprised you are saying this being in Texas I myself was born and raised in Corpus Christi, Texas my great grandfather immigrated here from Mexico ILLEGALLY! And the other side of my family was born in Texas when Texas was Mexico! I am glad your family migrated here Legally lucky you were not all that blessed!
Don't preach my history to me I know it back and forth and not the bullsh@t history written in your American history books! I don't speak on things I don't know about!
I said what I have to say in my previous post I am out of here I feel sorry for you it is sad that your blaming one minority for California's downfall! Especially in a day when Obama (an Amazing black man and Minority) is the President!
Your so rude!! Don't quote Viva La Raza! you have no clue!
Sorry, brother,, but you're wrong there. I agree with everything else you said, but this is just absurd. As someone who lived in Mexico for 13 years, I can assure you that the way people live in the US is NOTHING like they live in Mexico. There, even the poorest people rent a room for their families and don't share it with another family. The reason why you see people here living in a 2 bedroom house along with 4 other families is because rent's cheaper that way, hence allowing them to send the most amount of money possible back to their families, which was the reason why they came to the US in the first place. Mexican middle-class and American middle-class are not that dissimilar from each other, with the biggest difference being the amount of superfluous "shiny shit with bells and whistles" that Americans tend to possess.
Utter rubbish (especially that "livable wages" part).
If you understood "business" then you'd realise how preposterous your argument really is.
No business is going to hire labor for "higher" wages than they can afford. American, Mexian, whoever - the sole motive for "business" is the profit margin (else why bother staying in business?) Cheaper labor means cheaper products, it's that simple.
The sad fact (in some ways) is that the immigrants - legal or otherwise - are being blamed for the labor problem (while they are being exploited to the hilt because they can't seek redress through legal channels), when the opposite it actually true. Without cheap labor, a lot of things Americans take for granted to be "affordable" wouldn't be "affordable" anymore. Coupled with the fact that our asinine policies reward expenditure over thrift and the ever growing Welfare State and soon enough you encounter the pickle we are in currently.
Immigration law arbitrarily restricting the flow of labor or goods, is stupid and counter productive. Frederick Bastiat famously said that: "If commerce doesn't cross borders, armies will".
The problem is not the "immigrant" - the problem is the Welfare/Warfare State.
Excellent point! Most folks don't realise the real implications of the "conservation of labor" fallacy. "Buy American because you're American" sounds like a great slogan - but it's piss poor economics.
The free market [I'm assuming one still exists in America - don't we hate all those "centrally planned socialist/communist countries" for a reason?] doesn't tolerate inefficiency. Cheap labor is an asset, not a crime.
I applaud your post for bringing that up. Sometimes we Americans need to be bashed on the head with a little bit of history.
The recent tirades against "immigrants" (notice how almost always, the tirade is directed against those South of the Border versus say Norwegians or Russians or Italians or Poles or whathaveyou?) is not a new one. Generations past have 'lived through' similar tirades against the "immigrant of choice" - my grandfather used to tell me stories about the backlash against Chinese immigrants... despite the fact that they lived in perpetual penury and were treated like slaves in all but name.
In fact, the term "melting pot" when it first came about was considered an abuse!! It meant the "dilution" of the 'pure race' of America - when faced with the "deluge of Catholic immigrants from Ireland" (yes, the Irish were not welcomed with open arms when they first started appearing in large numbers).
cheers,
Says who?
I know you were making a counter-argument... but still.
See, this is probably where I diverge from you PoV.
I don't blame them, I blame the Federal gunverment and it's retarded policies [Fair warning for all readers: My wife of over 30+ years is an immigrant from Afghanistan - a dirt poor, 4th world nation].
The Feds encourage such behavior - do you think there'd be SO many flocking here if there was no welfare? I'm not discounting the fact that the vast majority of those who come here do so because they want to better their lives ---- but the existence of welfare gives an added incentive.
Now hold on to your horse there cowboy!
Full article
Dude, admit it - this is highly debatable.
Again, the problems here are not the "immigrants" per se but government policy. There are way too many Americans who abuse the system - in fact, it is my personal experience that illegal immigrants rarely chose to get regular medical checkups ... coming in mostly when they have been persuaded/in-too-much-pain-to-ignore-otherwise (I used to staff a clinic in the Louisiana-Texas border and many of our patients were the migrant far worker bunch).
As opposed to legal citizen crime and foreclosure rates? Again, the problem is not the migrant - it's government policy!
There is no "pro-immigrant propanganda" involved in saying "a good bunch of the lowest paying jobs in the US are held by undocumented workers".
You should be able to draw the 'economic conclusions' of that argument on your own.
Philbert, you know how much I dislike disagreeing with you but this is one of those times:
Especially when you seem to make a case for "government (especially Federal) controlled immigration". By adding on stuff like "my ancestors came here legally".
Yes. I understand. "IT IS THE LAW!"
No doubt.
But if the law doesn't make any sense what-so-ever... why should we continue to follow it?
Let me give a different example: The Bill of Rights.
At no point does that glorious document ever say "citizen". It always mentions "person" or "people". In fact, at whatever points the Founding Fathers thought fit, they used the word "citizen" if they implied such a term [you're free to look up the Constitution and tell me how often then used that term].
Now, I'm no idiot. I recognise that the border states are grappling with this issue. I'm not dismissing your concerns...
BUT, IMHO - we are "scapegoating" the wrong offender.
cheers,
Philbert
Banned
OK, point by point is difficult with so many points, but...
"moral obligation to liberate the rightful owners from the invaders"...that was a counter silly statement to counter the hackneyed argument that we stole the land from poor Mexico.
I don't blame them, I blame the Federal gunverment and it's retarded policies [Fair warning for all readers: My wife of over 30+ years is an immigrant from Afghanistan - a dirt poor, 4th world nation].
And my baby girl is 1/4 Mexican, and I make damn sure she knows how cool her great Grandmother was to come here with a young son and make her life.
She used some Govt help...living for a while in the NO projects til she could get her own place. She had a good deal of pride to go with her strong will.
Whether the govt is at fault or the people sucking it up 'cause they can, it still doesn't work, and needs to be shut down.
"using the emergency rooms for regular medical care, and just never paying their bill"
"A recent article in Slate claims that the uninsured and the insured folks both visit the ERs in roughly the same proportion ."
Somehow I am failing to see the equivalence of insurance paying for ER care and non payment.
"there are Americans lining up for jobs that Mexicans are taking at $6 and $8 an hour 'cause they have almost no cash expenses like American citizens do."
"Dude, admit it - this is highly debatable."
I have personal and anecdotal experience here...the construction trades are full of illegals working for bad American wages/good Mexican wages that keeps most skilled Americans shut out of $15-$18 an hour wages...I operated an excavator with a shear, and all Mexicans were used where I worked due to their taking $7-$9 an hour for a $18-$25 an hour for skilled labor...I had to take $!4 an hour and barely made living expenses.
I do QC (quality control) where I work, and without an exception the Mexicans do the worst work, cutting corners and using very few correct parts while doing as little spec work as possible. This is endemic among pretty much all the Mexican/Salvadoran installers. A cultural disconnect...they don't get the logic behind doing the job up to spec.
"not to mention the cost of illegal immigrant crime and foreclosure rates for houses and cars"
"As opposed to legal citizen crime and foreclosure rates? Again, the problem is not the migrant - it's government policy!"
Once again, the problem is the problem, not the causation. Having multiple IDs makes a credit report a joke for illegals; and so many took the free stuff, we are paying the price for their good time.
We don't need more crime and deadbeat borrowers added to our own large local stock...overload is not a good endgame.
"There is no "pro-immigrant propanganda" involved in saying "a good bunch of the lowest paying jobs in the US are held by undocumented workers".
I made no such claim; the propaganda equates the legal Ellis Island process of days past with millions of illegals crossing the border back and forth, sucking up services, and having little intention of actually staying here and becoming a part of the culture.
As for the control of immigration, I fail to see where there is a problem in the 21st Century with controlling entry to the country...especially when dealing with impoverished, often sick and unprepared to deal with a modern culture and it's demands (car seats, traffic laws, etc) people. With millions of unknown and uneducated people freely entering the country there is only the possibility of chaos and societal disconnect.
"Let me give a different example: The Bill of Rights.
At no point does that glorious document ever say "citizen". It always mentions "person" or "people". In fact, at whatever points the Founding Fathers thought fit, they used the word "citizen" if they implied such a term [you're free to look up the Constitution and tell me how often then used that term]."
Let me make an assumption and say I believe that is because the B of Rs was written for people here in the country...citizens or legal residents. The Bill of Rights granted no rights or privileges to a resident of the Wiemar Republic or the Kingdom of Saud...it addressed the population of the US of A, and wasn't meant as a world document.
This whole problem is indeed the result of an incredible failure of the govt at all levels to deal with the situation...I have been appropriately angry and disgusted with that fact for a long time...but refusing to take a medicine for a curable disease because of it's origin makes absolutely no sense.
The problem is the problem, not the source of it.
I am quite ready for the situation to be closed down, and the vast numbers of illegals to be reduced to a small number of manageable non-legal residents like in times past. The situation has gone way out of control in so many directions, and it's causing a good deal of damage.
"moral obligation to liberate the rightful owners from the invaders"...that was a counter silly statement to counter the hackneyed argument that we stole the land from poor Mexico.
I don't blame them, I blame the Federal gunverment and it's retarded policies [Fair warning for all readers: My wife of over 30+ years is an immigrant from Afghanistan - a dirt poor, 4th world nation].
And my baby girl is 1/4 Mexican, and I make damn sure she knows how cool her great Grandmother was to come here with a young son and make her life.
She used some Govt help...living for a while in the NO projects til she could get her own place. She had a good deal of pride to go with her strong will.
Whether the govt is at fault or the people sucking it up 'cause they can, it still doesn't work, and needs to be shut down.
"using the emergency rooms for regular medical care, and just never paying their bill"
"A recent article in Slate claims that the uninsured and the insured folks both visit the ERs in roughly the same proportion ."
Somehow I am failing to see the equivalence of insurance paying for ER care and non payment.
"there are Americans lining up for jobs that Mexicans are taking at $6 and $8 an hour 'cause they have almost no cash expenses like American citizens do."
"Dude, admit it - this is highly debatable."
I have personal and anecdotal experience here...the construction trades are full of illegals working for bad American wages/good Mexican wages that keeps most skilled Americans shut out of $15-$18 an hour wages...I operated an excavator with a shear, and all Mexicans were used where I worked due to their taking $7-$9 an hour for a $18-$25 an hour for skilled labor...I had to take $!4 an hour and barely made living expenses.
I do QC (quality control) where I work, and without an exception the Mexicans do the worst work, cutting corners and using very few correct parts while doing as little spec work as possible. This is endemic among pretty much all the Mexican/Salvadoran installers. A cultural disconnect...they don't get the logic behind doing the job up to spec.
"not to mention the cost of illegal immigrant crime and foreclosure rates for houses and cars"
"As opposed to legal citizen crime and foreclosure rates? Again, the problem is not the migrant - it's government policy!"
Once again, the problem is the problem, not the causation. Having multiple IDs makes a credit report a joke for illegals; and so many took the free stuff, we are paying the price for their good time.
We don't need more crime and deadbeat borrowers added to our own large local stock...overload is not a good endgame.
"There is no "pro-immigrant propanganda" involved in saying "a good bunch of the lowest paying jobs in the US are held by undocumented workers".
I made no such claim; the propaganda equates the legal Ellis Island process of days past with millions of illegals crossing the border back and forth, sucking up services, and having little intention of actually staying here and becoming a part of the culture.
As for the control of immigration, I fail to see where there is a problem in the 21st Century with controlling entry to the country...especially when dealing with impoverished, often sick and unprepared to deal with a modern culture and it's demands (car seats, traffic laws, etc) people. With millions of unknown and uneducated people freely entering the country there is only the possibility of chaos and societal disconnect.
"Let me give a different example: The Bill of Rights.
At no point does that glorious document ever say "citizen". It always mentions "person" or "people". In fact, at whatever points the Founding Fathers thought fit, they used the word "citizen" if they implied such a term [you're free to look up the Constitution and tell me how often then used that term]."
Let me make an assumption and say I believe that is because the B of Rs was written for people here in the country...citizens or legal residents. The Bill of Rights granted no rights or privileges to a resident of the Wiemar Republic or the Kingdom of Saud...it addressed the population of the US of A, and wasn't meant as a world document.
This whole problem is indeed the result of an incredible failure of the govt at all levels to deal with the situation...I have been appropriately angry and disgusted with that fact for a long time...but refusing to take a medicine for a curable disease because of it's origin makes absolutely no sense.
The problem is the problem, not the source of it.
I am quite ready for the situation to be closed down, and the vast numbers of illegals to be reduced to a small number of manageable non-legal residents like in times past. The situation has gone way out of control in so many directions, and it's causing a good deal of damage.
Philbert
Banned
Actually, I think the history you read is the bullshit one, and the one I learned is the accurate one. Are you claiming Mexican history books are more honestly written and accurate? How did you arrive at that conclusion?
You do speak on things you don't know about, and I think you need to study the reasons behind the invitation of the Texicans to settle in by the govt of Mexico way back when, as well as the actual population of Texas before the Republic was established.
I wasn't blaming the illegals for California's downfall, only pointing out their large part in the mess, as did other posters.
And Obama is only part Black; no more amazing than any other scholastically accomplished politician
