Why Should I Care About California?

[Hot Mega]

Wow! How could anyone think a $10 Billion drain on the economy is the same as a $15 Billion drain?
What were we thinking?

I'm no proponent of illegal immigration but what "FAIR" doesn't tell nor can they is whether that is ultimately offset by the spending of illegals??

To be "FAIR" to the discussion, wouldn't one kinda need to know that?
:hatsoff:

 

[Hot Mega]

"Grandma Millie" tape....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DOLNWF5QMxY

 

[boobfan]

All of you guys are off base. The impact on CA's social services by illegals not nearly the problem. After all, California isn't the only border state with mass influxes of illegals.

California's fiscal house fell apart due to the gaming of it's energy grid by Enron and Reliant which caused the bankruptcy of Pacific Gas and Electric and the state bailout of So Cal Edison in 2000 and 2001.

This cost the state at least $15 billion.

A 10 Billion annual drain is greater than a 1 time 15 billion dollar drain.
Over a 5 year period that is 50 Billion whereas the one time 15 Billion is still just 15 Billion.

Yes, California is a border state but it is the only border state that provides social services to illegals because they ARE illegal.

In other states illegals have to get fake documentation or actually pay for stuff themselfs.

Now if we would just get somekind of voter registration reform so that illegals could not vote and legislators in California did not have to cater to illegals the situation would never have gotten close to being a problem.

With organizations like ACORN pushing and lobying for relaxing documentation requirements needed to register to vote even getting some states to not require even a drivers license let alone a birth certificate or other prof of citizenship I don't see any stop to the flood of illegals voting.

I actually would not have too much of an issue helping California if I knew that the money would not go right into the pockets of illegals. Untill we get some assurance that the money will not go to the very social programs which have bankrupted the state by supporting illegals I say let them fall into the ocean.

 

[Hot Mega]

A 10 Billion annual drain is greater than a 1 time 15 billion dollar drain.
Over a 5 year period that is 50 Billion whereas the one time 15 Billion is still just 15 Billion.

Yes, California is a border state but it is the only border state that provides social services to illegals because they ARE illegal.

In other states illegals have to get fake documentation or actually pay for stuff themselfs.

Now if we would just get somekind of voter registration reform so that illegals could not vote and legislators in California did not have to cater to illegals the situation would never have gotten close to being a problem.

With organizations like ACORN pushing and lobying for relaxing documentation requirements needed to register to vote even getting some states to not require even a drivers license let alone a birth certificate or other prof of citizenship I don't see any stop to the flood of illegals voting.

I actually would not have too much of an issue helping California if I knew that the money would not go right into the pockets of illegals. Untill we get some assurance that the money will not go to the very social programs which have bankrupted the state by supporting illegals I say let them fall into the ocean.

Again, the energy crisis was the initial impetus for California's fiscal woes..

Again, to determine the complete picture of what fiscal impact illegals are having on California's budget it would have to be balanced against what their spending adds to the public coffers.

Can you cite a resource and data on that?

You mean Texas doesn't have free clinics and welfare?? Any child born in the US is automatically a US citizen....even in Texas, New Mexico and Arizona.

 

[Facetious]

oops

 

[Facetious]

Touted as the place to be way back ion the 1980's, I wonder what has happened to this once place to be. Is it their fault for years of electing these individuals that have brought this State down?

I don't recall that my modest interests have EVER been represented, and I've lived here all of my life.

Should the "Governator" resign? WTF is really going on in this state? Is this is what is goign to happen to the rest of the States?

Arnold pussed out when he found that his original moderate republican views were met with great opposition (from the far left). In other words, Arnold has completely appeased his critics.

think the feds are going to bail them out too?

Gawd ! I hope fuckin naught !


Want to know what has happened to Calif. politics ?



Attitudes like this -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ms0hugRkgv8

 

[Kingfisher]

Not exactly sure how it is Schwarzenegger's fault here. He signs off on bills once they reach his desk. It's all the other assholes coming up with the ideas. If he hadn't signed off on it, even as crappy as it was, we'd still be without a budget. You think they don't have a back up plan. The election was just their intention to see what they could get away with. You want to recall someone, recall your dumbass representives.

 

[boobfan]

Again, the energy crisis was the initial impetus for California's fiscal woes..

Again, to determine the complete picture of what fiscal impact illegals are having on California's budget it would have to be balanced against what their spending adds to the public coffers.

Can you cite a resource and data on that?

You mean Texas doesn't have free clinics and welfare?? Any child born in the US is automatically a US citizen....even in Texas, New Mexico and Arizona.

No, California was spending money on illegals long before the 'energy crisis' and is STILL spending money on them. I only used 5 years at 10 billion a year (according to the states own budget numbers) as an example the drain has been going on for far longer and has probably cost a lot more than just 50 Billion (that was 4 years ago).
http://usgovinfo.about.com/od/immigrationnaturalizatio/a/caillegals.htm
That 10 Billion a year is not even complete it is a very conservative estimate.

As for what thier spending adds, well as they are illegals who get most of whaty they have through state programs in California and they don't pay taxes it adds pretty much nothing.

Texas does have medicaid clinics but they are only suppose to be for citizens but like I said here they get fake documentation and some do get away with stealing the services for some time. When they get caught they get deported then they sneak back and the whole process starts over again.
Yes, if a illegal has a child in Texas the Child is a citizen not the mother. That is becoming a huge problem here but as there are no programs to support the parents of these children of illegals who go to our public schools the expendatures are no where near as much as those of the State of California. Best example The State of Texas does not provide housing to illegals who have children here unlike California, Texas does not provide medicaid to the parents of illegals unlike California. Parents of illegals in Texas actually have to pay rent or lease some kind of place to live unlike illegals in California who are getting housing from the State and since the parents are actually having to pay rent and in some cases utilites, the tax base of our illegals is far greater than the tax base of illegals in a state like California where they don't make those contributions. Unfortunatly what little money Texas does make from illegals that do pay taxes does not make up for what is spent in welfare and in public schools for thier children but it is better than nothing which is what California gets. The Robin Hood school funding that Texas has is actually taking a huge hit as some school districts that should be able to afford some needed programs can't because 'poorer' school districts that are close to the border 'steal' funds from the 'richer' districts to fund the school welfare programs that are in place for the children of illegals.

 

[Hot Mega]

No, California was spending money on illegals long before the 'energy crisis' and is STILL spending money on them. I only used 5 years at 10 billion a year (according to the states own budget numbers) as an example the drain has been going on for far longer and has probably cost a lot more than just 50 Billion (that was 4 years ago).

That 10 Billion a year is not even complete it is a very conservative estimate.

Siiigh. For every year you count what they theoretically cost, you have to consider what if any offset there is.

These people are not just sitting here in cocoons sucking up money. They work, they get paid, they spend their money on taxable things like gasoline, foodstuffs, clothing, property, etc. which ADDS to the public coffers.

When we come up with what that amount totals (which I'm sure is above 10 billion since California's GDP is about 1.7 trillion dollars.) then we can have a serious discussion of the impact illegals have on CA's fiscal problems.

Certainly since illegals have been present in CA for decades the corollary doesn't hold water IMO.

CA having to bail out SCE and coming up approximately $15b with no offset was clearly the start of CA's fiscal problems....Those problems were exacerbated by this wrecked, oil destroyed economy like over 40 other states experiencing similar problems with no demonstrable illegal footprint.

 

[Skyraider22]

If you don't ypu just don't why do you care:dunno:

 

[The Paulinator]

Atlas Shrugged.

 

[Bloodshot Scott]

All of you guys are off base. The impact on CA's social services by illegals not nearly the problem. After all, California isn't the only border state with mass influxes of illegals.

California's fiscal house fell apart due to the gaming of it's energy grid by Enron and Reliant which caused the bankruptcy of Pacific Gas and Electric and the state bailout of So Cal Edison in 2000 and 2001.

This cost the state at least $15 billion.

Your head is stuck in the sand; your bleading heart is showing. Here's one link:

84 hospitals in California have been forced to close because of the high cost of treating illegal aliens with only 50 percent of all treatments reimbursed by government.

"Even physicians in those emergency rooms don't fully get the point that by being compassionate, and generous, and gracious, they are, in essence, destroying their own livelihoods as well as their own hospitals," she said.

While politicians often mention there are 43 million without health insurance in this country, Cosman's report estimates that at least 25 percent of those are illegal immigrants. The figure could be as high as 50 percent.

Not being insured does not mean they don't get medical care.

...

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=48161

That's a helluva lot of (citizen) LPN's out of work. Hundreds of similar links are found all over the net.

I'm no proponent of illegal immigration but what "FAIR" doesn't tell nor can they is whether that is ultimately offset by the spending of illegals??

To be "FAIR" to the discussion, wouldn't one kinda need to know that?
:hatsoff:

...more:

1. $11 billion to $22 billion spent on welfare to illegal aliens each year.

2. $2.2 billion dollars a year spent on food assistance programs such as food stamps, WIC, and free school lunches for illegal aliens.

3. $2.5 billion dollars a year spent on Medicaid for illegal aliens.

4. $12 billion dollars a year spent on primary and secondary school education for children here illegally.

5. $17 billion dollars a year spent for education for the American-born children of illegal aliens, known as anchor babies.

6. $3 million dollars a day spent to incarcerate illegal aliens.

7. 29 percent of all Federal Prison inmates are illegal aliens.

8. $90 billion dollars a year spent on illegal aliens for welfare & social services by the American taxpayers.

9. $200 billion Dollars a year in lost-suppressed American wages caused by the illegal aliens.

http://www.rense.com/general75/niht.htm

Siiigh. For every year you count what they theoretically cost, you have to consider what if any offset there is.

These people are not just sitting here in cocoons sucking up money. They work, they get paid, they spend their money on taxable things like gasoline, foodstuffs, clothing, property, etc. which ADDS to the public coffers.

When we come up with what that amount totals (which I'm sure is above 10 billion since California's GDP is about 1.7 trillion dollars.) then we can have a serious discussion of the impact illegals have on CA's fiscal problems.

Certainly since illegals have been present in CA for decades the corollary doesn't hold water IMO.

CA having to bail out SCE and coming up approximately $15b with no offset was clearly the start of CA's fiscal problems....Those problems were exacerbated by this wrecked, oil destroyed economy like over 40 other states experiencing similar problems with no demonstrable illegal footprint.

Ostrich!

 

[Facetious]

The election was just their intention to see what they could get away with.

Precisely I like the way that Arnold hightailed it to D.C. the day before the balloon was launched, or "ELECTION '09" took place, to be more specific :1orglaugh

You want to recall someone, recall your dumbass representives.

I think that this state needs to go back to a part time state legislature after we launch a ballot initiative / referendum to fire all of their flabby asses.
Don't those bastids get a state vehicle with gas card plus about $150.00 a day (when in session) in addition to their base salary ?

 

[Hot Mega]

Ostrich!

Aside from many of those quotes being redundant, not one thing cites how much revenue illegals generate for government coffers.

We pay a cost for every demographic in those statistics you cite and for everyone effecting those stats.....but we can measure the offset. In other words, the government uses the revenue generated in the form of taxation, fees, assessments, etc. on it's citizens to pay for those things so there's a determinable offset.

Again "Ostrich", what is the revenue to expense offset for illegals?

Here's a slower, simpler example. If I said for example, I pay a $4000 mortgage that might sound high to some people until you found out that my income was more than enough to cover it. Without knowing what income I generate, how can you judge what my expenses are???

And BTW, I vehemently oppose illegal immigration. I vehemently oppose the unlawful raiding of our borders.

My entire quarrel in this thread is with the erroneous suggestion that illegals are the cause of California's budget crisis. It's another red herring just like the nonsense blaming our need to "drill here, drill now" because of gas prices.

There are over 40 of our 50 states facing bankruptcy and California is just another one of them but our problems started with the energy crises of '00 and '01.

 

[boobfan]

Siiigh. For every year you count what they theoretically cost, you have to consider what if any offset there is.

These people are not just sitting here in cocoons sucking up money. They work, they get paid, they spend their money on taxable things like gasoline, foodstuffs, clothing, property, etc. which ADDS to the public coffers.

When we come up with what that amount totals (which I'm sure is above 10 billion since California's GDP is about 1.7 trillion dollars.) then we can have a serious discussion of the impact illegals have on CA's fiscal problems.

Certainly since illegals have been present in CA for decades the corollary doesn't hold water IMO.

CA having to bail out SCE and coming up approximately $15b with no offset was clearly the start of CA's fiscal problems....Those problems were exacerbated by this wrecked, oil destroyed economy like over 40 other states experiencing similar problems with no demonstrable illegal footprint.

There is no offset for them what they contribute in sales tax dollars is nothing compared to what they suck up. Most of the money they make they send back to family in Mexico or farther south that money does not stay or really get spent in California. They don't really need to spend money in California anyway, they have housing, medical, school, transportation, and food programs all provided by the state.

Oil destroyed Economy? No, the ecomomy was ruined by the realestate market crashing, a realestate bubble that California is mostly resposible for. The bubble bursting is from Slick Willy's Fair Lending Act changes removing the need for a lender to verify that a loan recipient can actually pay back a loan.

 

[Hot Mega]

There is no offset for them what they contribute in sales tax dollars is nothing compared to what they suck up. Most of the money they make they send back to family in Mexico or farther south that money does not stay or really get spent in California.

Oil destroyed Economy? No, the ecomomy was ruined by the realestate market crashing, a realestate bubble that California is mostly resposible for.

Well, come with a number and a reputable source citing it and that will be the end of the discussion. Simple right?

So you're another one of the suckers (and I mean that in the nicest possible way) who have swallowed the hook in thinking the real estate crisis was (inexplicably) the cause of our economic problems and not a symptom like the rest of the industries that suffered while the oil industry made record profits huh???

What do you think is likely to happen when transportation costs in the form of gasoline nearly quadruple for a sustained period of time? One thing that will happen is the money your now required to spend transporting yourself won't be spent on other stuff. And if you have enough people (like a whole nations worth) adjusting their spending habits in that way....what do you think will happen to the other businesses and industries people are no longer spending that money with now? They will lose money, cut costs (lay offs) until the process is self refueling...lower revenue=more lay offs=fewer customers=lower revenue.

Guess what happens when people don't have jobs and are using there credit cards to buy their basic necessities? The likely can't pay their mortgages...ta-daaa.

 

[Nester6]

I say let's just let the whole rotten fucking system collapse under its own weight and start all over. I'm glad the voters of California have said "enough!" to this never-ending cycle of spending money we don't have to pay for shit we bought last year that we couldn't afford to pay for then because we were paying for the shit we bought the year before with money we didn't have.....on and on and on. You can't run a household with that mindset, you can't run a business with that mindset and you can't run a government with that mindset.

Let California go bankrupt. This American taxpayer is fed up.

Look at the state's history. When conservatives controlled it, excellence. The last 18 years of a liberal, welfare state has driven it to ruin. I am afraid California's results will be the same for the country after Obama's tax and spend reign does it's full damage for decades to come.

 

[Nester6]

Aside from many of those quotes being redundant, not one thing cites how much revenue illegals generate for government coffers.

We pay a cost for every demographic in those statistics you cite and for everyone effecting those stats.....but we can measure the offset. In other words, the government uses the revenue generated in the form of taxation, fees, assessments, etc. on it's citizens to pay for those things so there's a determinable offset.

Again "Ostrich", what is the revenue to expense offset for illegals?

Here's a slower, simpler example. If I said for example, I pay a $4000 mortgage that might sound high to some people until you found out that my income was more than enough to cover it. Without knowing what income I generate, how can you judge what my expenses are???

And BTW, I vehemently oppose illegal immigration. I vehemently oppose the unlawful raiding of our borders.

My entire quarrel in this thread is with the erroneous suggestion that illegals are the cause of California's budget crisis. It's another red herring just like the nonsense blaming our need to "drill here, drill now" because of gas prices.

There are over 40 of our 50 states facing bankruptcy and California is just another one of them but our problems started with the energy crises of '00 and '01.[/QUOTE

Politicians have to get some balls and stop illegal immigration and all the fucking freebies they get! How much can honest, hard working Americans pay for the cancer of illegal immigration??

 

[boobfan]

Well, come with a number and a reputable source citing it and that will be the end of the discussion. Simple right?

So you're another one of the suckers (and I mean that in the nicest possible way) who have swallowed the hook in thinking the real estate crisis was (inexplicably) the cause of our economic problems and not a symptom like the rest of the industries that suffered while the oil industry made record profits huh???

What do you think is likely to happen when transportation costs in the form of gasoline nearly quadruple for a sustained period of time? One thing that will happen is the money your now required to spend transporting yourself won't be spent on other stuff. And if you have enough people (like a whole nations worth) adjusting their spending habits in that way....what do you think will happen to the other businesses and industries people are no longer spending that money with now? They will lose money, cut costs (lay offs) until the process is self refueling...lower revenue=more lay offs=fewer customers=lower revenue.

Guess what happens when people don't have jobs and are using there credit cards to buy their basic necessities? The likely can't pay their mortgages...ta-daaa.

We have provided a link with numbers that were provided by the state of California four years ago.

You are one of those suckers that has bought into the really far fetched belief that somehow a rise in the cost of fuel caused the realestate market to crash?
Well if you actually watched one of your own favorite networks CBS, 60 minutes has done 3 stories on the bubble bursting in the realestate market that were actually something close to the truth. The reason the bubble burst is people were getting loans who did not have income to pay them back. The loans were being sold as morgage backed securities and sold overseas. When people overseas started putting the lending institutions under a microscope like Deutche bank did they spoke up about these 'junk morgages' backing the securities and people stoped buying them and the market crashed. Rising Fuel is no where in that equation, Bill Clintons Fair Lending act changes that removed a persons ability to repay the loan as a reason to refuse a loan is the primary element in that equation. I just wish that the DNC's network CBS had actually mentioned in just one of the stories the changes that Bill Clinton had made to the Fair Lending act.

 

[Bloodshot Scott]

Aside from many of those quotes being redundant, not one thing cites how much revenue illegals generate for government coffers.

We pay a cost for every demographic in those statistics you cite and for everyone effecting those stats.....but we can measure the offset. In other words, the government uses the revenue generated in the form of taxation, fees, assessments, etc. on it's citizens to pay for those things so there's a determinable offset.

Again "Ostrich", what is the revenue to expense offset for illegals?

Here's a slower, simpler example. If I said for example, I pay a $4000 mortgage that might sound high to some people until you found out that my income was more than enough to cover it. Without knowing what income I generate, how can you judge what my expenses are???

And BTW, I vehemently oppose illegal immigration. I vehemently oppose the unlawful raiding of our borders.

My entire quarrel in this thread is with the erroneous suggestion that illegals are the cause of California's budget crisis. It's another red herring just like the nonsense blaming our need to "drill here, drill now" because of gas prices.

There are over 40 of our 50 states facing bankruptcy and California is just another one of them but our problems started with the energy crises of '00 and '01.

You're a rambler Hot Mega. You know in your heart that your arguments are base. Is this delusion really in your heart? And you are college educated? Is it rocket science to understand that when an illegal has a job here, that somewhere, there is someone who could be doing that job - at livable wages?

Never mind all that; you really believe they are NOT a burden to not only Cali but to the USA in general? I'm not going to dig for you. You are just playing that deaf, "I don't understand" route. (last link I will provide for you in this thread, and good ridance to you in this thread and California. [but I know you won't read it]):

http://www.numbersusa.com/content/issues/taxpayer-burden.html