"Vast majority" of Gitmo prisoners "never posed any real risk to America at all"

[AFA]

Re: "Vast majority" of Gitmo prisoners "never posed any real risk to America at all"

I'm not evading anything and you're not debunking anything. We just don't see things the same way and it's causing this to go nowhere. It's like one of those little train tracks you see in the mall, that little kids ride. Sure, when you first get on it, you're like "WEEEE, this is fun", but after the 2nd time around the loop, you begin to see that it's pointless and that you're just going in circles.



I already kind of explained it, but, to elaborately answer your question...

After 9/11 happened, the US invaded Afghanistan with "Shock and Awe". That was a direct retaliation for what Bin Laden and his cronies did to the World Trade Center. They took down the Twin Towers and killed a bunch of innocent people, so we directly retaliated by dropping a storm of bombs all over Afghanistan.

During that time, our government slowly shifted it's focus on Saddam Hussein and Iraq.

At this point, I will take a brief moment to acknowledge the fact that Saddam Hussein was a target of George H.W. Bush when he was still President.

Anyway, the US was already in Afghanistan fighting the War on Terror. Obviously the message has changed (significantly), but initially, we went into Afghanistan, sending a message to the world that terrorism would not be tolerated. During this whole "uproar" of "taking a stand against terrorism", the US decided to rekindle it's search for Saddam Hussein, as he was one of the highly known threats, not only to the US, but to the world as well (as we believed he had WMDs). The US then decided to go after Saddam Hussein and invaded Iraq.

If 9/11 never happened, we never would've invaded Afghanistan.
If 9/11 never happened, we never would've started our War on Terror.
If 9/11 never happened, we never would've went after Saddam Hussein.
If 9/11 never happened, we never would've invaded Iraq.

If 9/11 never happened, the fuse wouldn't have been lit that would end up igniting the flame that rekindled our search for Saddam Hussein. I don't think that's being "generous" at all by saying that our invasion of Iraq was a indirect retaliation of 9/11.

Chef, I really hate to disagree with you. I'm the guy that thinks the Food Network is going to call me about my own cooking show when I make hamburger helper.

Bush was focused on Iraq from day 1 and focused 90% of his strike on Iraq. 10% of the resources went toward finding Bin Laden in Afghanistan and there was no connection of Saddam to WMD or the Taliban. Bush purposely ignored facts he was handed continously, even the day of his last speech for war that there were no WMD in Iraq by his friend George Tenet. Documents were drawn up by Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld and Wolfowitz to take over the oil in the middle East a year before the twin towers were hit, and the Bush administration ignored the fact that intelligence frequently stated Bin Laden was going to strike. He himself made the statement in early 2002 that he wasn't interested in Bin laden. When intel made it clear Bin Laden was in Tora Bora he went to Baghdad. As hard as that is to believe because that goes against what you or I would do, it's true. Watching the news daily at that time it was simply unbelievable to see his smiling face after such a complete fuck up, but there it was on TV every night.d

He doesn't have the reputation of being the stupidest most led around president in history with the lowest approval rating ever for his inability to cook a steak.

 

[ChefChiTown]

Re: "Vast majority" of Gitmo prisoners "never posed any real risk to America at all"

Chef, I really hate to disagree with you. I'm the guy that thinks the Food Network is going to call me about my own cooking show when I make hamburger helper.

They might as well. Rachael Ray gets away with it! :1orglaugh

Bush was focused on Iraq from day 1 and focused 90% of his strike on Iraq. 10% of the resources went toward finding Bin Laden in Afghanistan and there was no connection of Saddam to WMD or the Taliban. Bush purposely ignored facts he was handed continously, even the day of his last speech for war that there were no WMD in Iraq by his friend George Tenet. Documents were drawn up by Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld and Wolfowitz to take over the oil in the middle East a year before the twin towers were hit, and the Bush administration ignored the fact that intelligence frequently stated Bin Laden was going to strike. He himself made the statement in early 2002 that he wasn't interested in Bin laden. When intel made it clear Bin Laden was in Tora Bora he went to Baghdad. As hard as that is to believe because that goes against what you or I would do, it's true. Watching the news daily at that time it was simply unbelievable to see his smiling face after such a complete fuck up, but there it was on TV every night.

I don't know if I'm just "reading that wrong", but that would actually be somewhat agreeing with me; Making the connection between 9/11 and the Iraq "war".

FYI - I'm not trying to claim that Bush and his staff have made the best decisions in the past few years. Any moron can see that they haven't. I'm also not trying to justify anything they've done. The point I was making from the very beginning of this thread is how the media does nothing but bash the US for everything we do and completely ignores (for the most part) when we do something positive. I just think that the people who have been "arguing" with me in this thread ever since then, have completely misinterpreted what I said.

 

[AFA]

Re: "Vast majority" of Gitmo prisoners "never posed any real risk to America at all"

I'm not making a connection between 9/11 and the Iraq War. There is no connection. Bush and his people lied like rugs to get that war started for reasons that look like money for military friends contracts and meglamania on Bush's personal part. There's something mental unhinged there. Did you know he has taken off more days than any other president in history, 1000 in 8 years? That's like 1 in 3 days for fishing trips. Do you think he was just upset?

If the media is bashing, (which I think they haven't done nearly enough of), it's because the guy well deserves it.

 

[ChefChiTown]

Re: "Vast majority" of Gitmo prisoners "never posed any real risk to America at all"

Did you know he has taken off more days than any other president in history, 1000 in 8 years? That's like 1 in 3 days for fishing trips. Do you think he was just upset?

Maybe he just really likes Trout? :dunno:

 

[AFA]

Re: "Vast majority" of Gitmo prisoners "never posed any real risk to America at all"

yeah, catching trout that's it. That's more important than catching Bin Laden.

 

[ChefChiTown]

Re: "Vast majority" of Gitmo prisoners "never posed any real risk to America at all"

yeah, catching trout that's it. That's more important than catching Bin Laden.

Oh, it is. You didn't hear? Consuming a large amount of trout will regulate your digestive system, but, catching Bin Laden only prevents a terrorist from bombing a highly trafficked area and killing thousands of innocent people.

 

[Facial_King]

Re: "Vast majority" of Gitmo prisoners "never posed any real risk to America at all"

Chef, sorry, you're simply not making any sense. Hussein & Iraq had no connection to 9/11, had no WMDs, and no connection to Al Qaeda or the Taliban. How could the invasion of Iraq be construed in any possible way as a RETALIATION for 9/11?????
Do you understand the meaning of the word retaliation?

If Dubya had nuked Cuba or North Korea or, fuck, France or Germany after 9/11 then would you have called that a retaliation, too???

You also seem to just have some knowledge gaps in your history:
"...initially, we went into Afghanistan, sending a message to the world that terrorism would not be tolerated. During this whole "uproar" of "taking a stand against terrorism", the US decided to rekindle it's search for Saddam Hussein."

search for Saddam Hussein??? Huh??? Are you confusing bin Laden (Al Qaeda) with Hussein (leader of Iraq, a country) for some reason? Hussein wasn't hiding (yet). No "search" was necessary. Hell, Dan Rather found him just before we invaded! Hussein proposed a debate between him and GWB. And British politician Tony Benn interviewed Hussein earlier that month (Feb. 2003).

 

[don_equis]

Re: "Vast majority" of Gitmo prisoners "never posed any real risk to America at all"

Is that true is there really such a thing? Ah come on, you're pulling my leg!

Wha?? what you talking about I never said anything...I don't remember saying it.:dunno: "I just work here"

 

[don_equis]

Re: "Vast majority" of Gitmo prisoners "never posed any real risk to America at all"

Gitmo detainee gets life term for aiding terrorism, bin Laden

GUANTANAMO BAY NAVAL BASE, Cuba — A Guantanamo prisoner who made propaganda videos for Osama bin Laden and says he volunteered to be a Sept. 11 hijacker was convicted of terrorism charges and sentenced to life in prison Monday.

A jury of nine U.S. military officers deliberated for just under an hour before condemning Ali Hamza al-Bahlul at Guantanamo’s second war-crimes trial. Al-Bahlul was convicted of 35 counts of conspiracy, solicitation to commit murder and providing material support for terrorism.

The jury dismissed one count of conspiracy and one count of providing material support for terrorism.

The 39-year-old Yemeni defiantly admitted joining al-Qaida, accused the U.S. of oppressing Muslims for 50 years and said, “We will fight any government that governs America.”

He told jurors before his sentencing he volunteered to be the 20th hijacker in the Sept. 11 attacks, but bin Laden told him his role was only to produce propaganda.

http://nhregister.com/articles/2008/11/05/news/c4-gitmo.txt

Yep I made that up...

 

[Facial_King]

Re: "Vast majority" of Gitmo prisoners "never posed any real risk to America at all"

Gitmo detainee gets life term for aiding terrorism, bin Laden

GUANTANAMO BAY NAVAL BASE, Cuba — A Guantanamo prisoner who made propaganda videos for Osama bin Laden and says he volunteered to be a Sept. 11 hijacker was convicted of terrorism charges and sentenced to life in prison Monday.

A jury of nine U.S. military officers deliberated for just under an hour before condemning Ali Hamza al-Bahlul at Guantanamo’s second war-crimes trial. Al-Bahlul was convicted of 35 counts of conspiracy, solicitation to commit murder and providing material support for terrorism.

The jury dismissed one count of conspiracy and one count of providing material support for terrorism.

The 39-year-old Yemeni defiantly admitted joining al-Qaida, accused the U.S. of oppressing Muslims for 50 years and said, “We will fight any government that governs America.”

He told jurors before his sentencing he volunteered to be the 20th hijacker in the Sept. 11 attacks, but bin Laden told him his role was only to produce propaganda.

http://nhregister.com/articles/2008/11/05/news/c4-gitmo.txt

Yep I made that up...

Fine....I'm glad that someone was convicted. And your point is what, exactly?

The fact that a small handful of HUNDREDS (or THOUSANDS if we include the prisons in Iraq and Afghanistan) of Gitmo prisoners are actually charged with something and then found guilty (by a military court isolated in Cuba, with perhaps more than a few political motivations to get a particular verdict) does not justify the imprisonment of so many others without charges or a means to contest their imprisonment (who thus are assumed to be guilty until proven innocent and when their captors' motivations are highly suspect).

If I rounded up everyone in the 20 square blocks surrounding your house, or everyone in your building, I'm sure I could catch some criminals, too.

In this particular case, I don't know how much congratulations are owed to anyone here, as the guy seemed to be freely admitting to everything. Guys like this are the EASY scores. Unless of course he'd been waterboarded three or four times until he agreed to confess to everything in court.

 

[ChefChiTown]

Re: "Vast majority" of Gitmo prisoners "never posed any real risk to America at all"

Chef, sorry, you're simply not making any sense. Hussein & Iraq had no connection to 9/11, had no WMDs, and no connection to Al Qaeda or the Taliban. How could the invasion of Iraq be construed in any possible way as a RETALIATION for 9/11?????
Do you understand the meaning of the word retaliation?

Boy, you certainly love to be overly-technical, don't you? I'm making plenty of sense, but you're choosing to look so far into what I'm saying that I think you're actually confusing yourself. The reason this conversation is going nowhere is because you are being so nit-picky with the exact definitions of words and phrases that I say, taking everything to be way more literal than what it really is. Just like when you tried to dissect my comparison of the US and terrorists to a nerdy school student and a school bully. Maybe "retaliation" isn't the Merriam-Webster word of choice, so allow me to rephrase myself in such a way that even a 3rd grader can understand it...

We never would've invaded Iraq and went looking for Saddam Hussein if the attacks on 9/11 didn't happen.

I know that Saddam Hussein had nothing to do with 9/11 and I never said that he did. I know that Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11 and I never said that they did. That's not what I'm saying at all, yet, you're bringing it up for some reason. I find it very hard to believe that someone who can be such a technical thinker (like yourself) can't see the connection between the attacks on 9/11 and the US invasion of Iraq.

Let me ask you this and answer it honestly...

If 9/11 didn't happen and the World Trade Center was never attacked, would we have invaded Iraq and went after Saddam Hussein when we did?

YES or NO?

 

[AFA]

Re: "Vast majority" of Gitmo prisoners "never posed any real risk to America at all"

There was no reason to go to Iraq. The Bush administration made up it's mind to invade Iraq despite warning upon warning that there were no WMD. You're posing a question, which reminds me of an old Volvo commercial. A guy washing his big American car in his driveway looks up and says, "I've owned 10 of these babies. If it wasn't such a great car why would I own so many of them"? The fact the act of going to Iraq exists, doesn't validate the stated reasons.

They went to Iraq to take control of the oil which was documented a year before 9/11, and it appears because of a personal vendetta against Saddam. Wanting a reason to go into Iraq, 9/11 conveniently gave them an excuse to get to work behind the smoke of the burning rubble. They did not go after Bin laden in strength even knowing where he was, they went to Iraq instead for the oil as they had planned before 9/11. Bush also has the appearance of a war monger who couldn't wait to get started envisioning himself as one of the great war Presidents of the twentieth century. He wouldn't let the truth stop him from invading Iraq, and actively ignored and covered up any reason that disproved his reason for the invasion. WMD's

There was a big difference between what the Bush people claimed was the truth about the war all along and what was being revealed behind the scenes as their continual lies and deceptions unfolded. Despite their efforts to hide the truth, journalists and writers picked up pieces and put it together.

As you'll remember Joe Wilson went to Niger to determine any possible validity to the claim that yellowcake uranium was being purchased for Iraq and found nothing. In retaliation for this lack of support for Bush, his wife's covert CIA identity was revealed. A felony commited by the White House.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plame

That's just one piece in a much larger puzzle and mainstream news is a lot more concerned with what's on Entertainment Tonight later than information that people should have but don't get. Control of the media is a very big issue anywhere, and the administration is very happy that people are willing to trust them and don't really know what's going on or care to find out. It's a seriously missing part of modern life in the US. Europeans are much better informed and read more.

If I talk to my neighbors about something I read or saw on CNN, they look at me like I have two heads. What's that got to do with baseball? :dunno:

 

[don_equis]

Re: "Vast majority" of Gitmo prisoners "never posed any real risk to America at all"

Fine....I'm glad that someone was convicted. And your point is what, exactly?

The fact that a small handful of HUNDREDS (or THOUSANDS if we include the prisons in Iraq and Afghanistan) of Gitmo prisoners are actually charged with something and then found guilty (by a military court isolated in Cuba, with perhaps more than a few political motivations to get a particular verdict) does not justify the imprisonment of so many others without charges or a means to contest their imprisonment (who thus are assumed to be guilty until proven innocent and when their captors' motivations are highly suspect).

If I rounded up everyone in the 20 square blocks surrounding your house, or everyone in your building, I'm sure I could catch some criminals, too.

In this particular case, I don't know how much congratulations are owed to anyone here, as the guy seemed to be freely admitting to everything. Guys like this are the EASY scores. Unless of course he'd been waterboarded three or four times until he agreed to confess to everything in court.

Stop yer crying and find your so called "vast majority" of wrongfully impriosend Gitmo "model citizens"...and don't come up with vague excuses or general statements like the title on your thread or "well that just a few adn your point is" Give me some numbers baby and then we are talking...

with statements like these coming from you:

In this particular case, I don't know how much congratulations are owed to anyone here, as the guy seemed to be freely admitting to everything. Guys like this are the EASY scores. Unless of course he'd been waterboarded three or four times until he agreed to confess to everything in court. Your quote not mine

You really have little faith in our troops that are handling these jihadist, you see us as evil people of a country that can do no good. You know what I worry about when those fat fucks at the court get me on three different ocassions for traffic violations and theres is nothing I can do about it or who knows how many americans (she I put people in our country first, that is weird these days) are wrongfully judged or don't have means to fight a case. The majority of these folks would have loved to have cut your head off and have a dance in allah's honor for your blood, sop for the few of them that were caught at the wrong time and wrong place I do feel their pain, the rest I could care less, you take them to your home for all that I care.

 

[AFA]

Re: "Vast majority" of Gitmo prisoners "never posed any real risk to America at all"

Okay, how many of the internees have been convicted of serious crimes?

 

[don_equis]

Re: "Vast majority" of Gitmo prisoners "never posed any real risk to America at all"

It seems like the next administration is making it a top priority, with the establishment of "tribunals". Let bureacracy take it over and we'll see e what happens.

Like Seinfeld once said "Is like a big mathzo ball hanging"

 

[Dawn]

Re: "Vast majority" of Gitmo prisoners "never posed any real risk to America at all"

Yeah I see everything is relative these days, yep...

And how things should be? Nationalist traced - so relative to nationalities? There is an American truth, a France truth, a German truth, a whatever truth? Relativity is maybe not where you think it is.

Well you all have your democrat president and super majority so now let's see how better than the repubes you all can run this.

Get them people some houses and let's spread the wealth with them to make it right.

What are you talking about - you are commenting a post where i'm saying im canadian... Why would i be democrat or else? Who told you i wanted to share the wealth?

Arent you able to discuss something without assuming people opinions and without condescendance? Without assumptions?

I'm talking to you with intelligence - i'm expecting the same.

Don't blame people to flame you all the time - you are asking for it. But it's not my kind and i won't. I will just turn my brain to off when discussing with you - so we will be able to throw idiocies at each others like two morons.

 

[don_equis]

Re: "Vast majority" of Gitmo prisoners "never posed any real risk to America at all"

And how things should be? Nationalist traced - so relative to nationalities? There is an American truth, a France truth, a German truth.




What are you talking about - you are commenting a post where i'm saying im canadian... Why would i be democrat or else? Who told you i wanted to share the wealth?

Arent you able to discuss something without assuming people opinions and without condescendance? Without assumptions?

I'm talking to you with intelligence - i'm expecting the same.

Don't blame people to flame you all the time - you are asking for it. But it's not my kind and i won't. I will just turn my brain to off when discussing with you - so we will be able to throw idiocies at each others like two morons.

Have some iced tea and back track some of my previous post on this thread if you got the time...these particular comments I was being sarcastic.

 

[Dawn]

Re: "Vast majority" of Gitmo prisoners "never posed any real risk to America at all"

Have some iced tea and back track some of my previous post on this thread if you got the time...these particular comments I was being sarcastic.

Thanks for assuming i haven't read the thread. Or haven't done or do something you think i have or haven't done.

It's easy to turn our brains to off and drinking iced tea.

But usually when i do so, it's not for discussing.

Have you lost someone in a War? If it was the case, i think you could understand why sarcasm wasnt really welcome to comment my post.

You actually had no idea why i posted that. Thinking i was like a Obama sheep or something. Look deeper. You Might find someone who enjoyed the loss of a family member in Afghanistan (Yes, Canada is present at Kandahar) and is disgusted regarding this shitty war.

But of course, we can have iced tea and acting like you did.

Maybe we should hide the mournings of the losts as much as their corpses were hiden when they came back from Afganistan in a Coffin?

 

[don_equis]

Re: "Vast majority" of Gitmo prisoners "never posed any real risk to America at all"

Thanks for assuming i haven't read the thread. Or haven't done or do something you think i have or haven't done.

Well you did took those comments seriously

It's easy to turn our brains to off and drinking iced tea.

I love iced tea, it chills me out, specially green tea with mango.

But usually when i do so, it's not for discussing.

It helps me to keep a clear head, better with a beer.

Have you lost someone in a War? If it was the case, i think you could understand why sarcasm wasnt really welcome to comment my posf t.

I lost two fellow soldiers while serving,eating and hanging out with them in "Operation Iraqi Freedom" a month after Bush declared "Mission Acomplished" and one of my soldiers survived a helicopter crash from a rocket attack, he was never the same so pardon my sarcasm for it's my way of dealing with what happened there and the political bullshit.

You actually had no idea why i posted that. Thinking i was like a Obama sheep or something. Look deeper. You Might find someone who enjoyed the loss of a family member in Afghanistan (Yes, Canada is present at Kandahar) and is disgusted regarding this shitty war.

I am the only one from my family that served twice in Iraq, I have uptmost respect for veterans of any country and would not joke about their deaths. I
fail to see where am I making fun of this matter?

But of course, we can have iced tea and acting like you did.

Once again, when shit is falling appart, I can depend on having a cold glass of iced tea.

Maybe we should hide the mournings of the losts as much as their corpses were hiden when they came back from Afganistan in a Coffin?

My comments are about Gitmo and like I said let's see what happens next and it is a big pile of shit that Bush left for the next pres to clean up. I have not said anything about my fellow vets. Don't know what you got wrong and I
don't think you are a"sheep"...I would have called you that already.

 

[Dawn]

Re: "Vast majority" of Gitmo prisoners "never posed any real risk to America at all"

I didnt noticed you were a Vet.

But look at the post i made that you commented with sarcasm.

I'm not into army myself. Just lost family member as well. So you know how it is too. You even had been hit personnally a lot more than I - my sincere sympathies. A good reason to have an icead tea there. And another iced tea regarding politcal bullshit surrounding all of this.

I still don't understand the sarcastic comment regarding my post, don_equis. (http://board.freeones.com/showpost.php?p=2641001&postcount=77). I'm sure you understand why i was reacting this way.

Overreacting? No.

Maybe just a misunderstanding? :dunno: