"Vast majority" of Gitmo prisoners "never posed any real risk to America at all"

Re: "Vast majority" of Gitmo prisoners "never posed any real risk to America at all"

Abuse of power.

I wonder how many of these prisoners were just, innocent guys who wer picked up on a wrong tip or something (this has to have happened at least once, because it doesnt seem to me to be the best run place G-Bay) and now after all the water boarding - its not torture you know :rolleyes: - has now become radicalised and will plan new attacks upon you. Because I mean come on :rofl: its not like the US to hurt as many people as possible and then to not feel the consequences of their actions a few years down the line. I mean that never happens the US always gets it right :rofl:
 

Violator79

Take a Hit, Spunker!
Re: "Vast majority" of Gitmo prisoners "never posed any real risk to America at all"

Just the title of this thread has the words NO FUCKING SHIT written all over it.
 
Re: "Vast majority" of Gitmo prisoners "never posed any real risk to America at all"

Abuse of power.

I wonder how many of these prisoners were just, innocent guys who wer picked up on a wrong tip or something (this has to have happened at least once, because it doesnt seem to me to be the best run place G-Bay) and now after all the water boarding - its not torture you know :rolleyes: - has now become radicalised and will plan new attacks upon you. Because I mean come on :rofl: its not like the US to hurt as many people as possible and then to not feel the consequences of their actions a few years down the line. I mean that never happens the US always gets it right :rofl:

The group I mentioned in the true film above were on their way to a wedding.

This is a fictious story that deals with the same subject
Rendition
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0804522/plotsummary
 
Re: "Vast majority" of Gitmo prisoners "never posed any real risk to America at all"

Sure we can. We can put some of the blame on the people who told us that these people were guilty criminals in the first place. Why should they be off the hook completely? I'm not saying that we didn't do anything wrong here, but come on...the US is constantly made out to look like the only evil in this world and you know it.

I don't know that. For one thing, I don't look at the USA as one monolithic entity. When our government does something at/to/with/against another country, it often does it with only limited public support, and also without even the full approval of Congress. So, even when "it" does something evil, that doesn't really reflect upon all Americans. But I also don't think that it's the only evil in this world. Plenty of countries (that is, their governments) sponsor bombings of known civilian areas, terrorist attacks, assassinations, the propping up dictators, etc. The problem is that the USA is one of the biggest, most powerful (perhaps THE, although it matters not for this argument) countries on Earth, so when it does something evil, that's going to reverberate more widely and deeply than if, say, Haiti or Laos or Iceland do evil. Also, people who live in democracies have more authority to criticize their own country. I can bitch all day long about Brazil's foreign policy, but I don't even have a vote there, so ultimately, it's just an opinion without any authority.

Where was the due process for the victims of those twins towers, airplanes,Pentagon on 9-11?
.....
To make it right we need to bring these people over here to the states and buy them house right next to those who said they really did not pose a threat to see how that goes.

Your first question is a problem because you are avoiding the main point of the article itself - that those prisoners weren't involved in the 9/11 attacks. Obviously the 9/11 victims didn't have any due process rights given to them, since they were just blown up. They weren't held as prisoners by a government entity. Or maybe you're just suggesting that because the 9/11 victims didn't get any due process that SOMEONE, SOMEWHERE in the world needs to be treated similarly (that is, at least denied due process) in order to strike some balance for justice? Two wrongs actually DO make a right?

Your final assertion is very silly as, again, you're just assuming they're guilty right from the start, without the bother of evidence, proof, or anything resembling a trial at all. Have you been outraged as the U.S. government continues to release these prisoners without charges (as most of them have been)?? And you're also just endorsing further mistreatment with your bizarre suggestion. They shouldn't be dragged over to the U.S. and bought a house, be it next to me (although I'd be tempted to agree if you also threw in a full and fair civil jury trial for them!) or anyone, they should be returned to their home countries, with at least something resembling an apology or compensation where warranted. And if someone is snatched from their home country and taken to a foreign country prison and not notified what the charges are against them nor given an opportunity to contest those charges, and held FOR YEARS this way, only to be released without a verdict, well, that warrants a major apology at the very least...
 

Spleen

Banned?
Re: "Vast majority" of Gitmo prisoners "never posed any real risk to America at all"

Freedom isn't free... It costs a shit load of locked up Muslims.
 

ChefChiTown

The secret ingredient? MY BALLS
Re: "Vast majority" of Gitmo prisoners "never posed any real risk to America at all"

Freedom isn't free... It costs a shit load of locked up Muslims.

Where did you hear such nonsense? Freedom doesn't cost "a shit load of locked up Muslims"...it costs A BUCK O' FIVE!!!
 
Re: "Vast majority" of Gitmo prisoners "never posed any real risk to America at all"

I will push for all these good folks done wrong to be allowed to move in the states as payment for their unjust treatment.
 
Re: "Vast majority" of Gitmo prisoners "never posed any real risk to America at all"

I will push for all these good folks done wrong to be allowed to move in the states as payment for their unjust treatment.

Why do you assume that they would even WANT to "move in the states" (did you mean move TO the states?) ???

How could that be considered payment?

"Okay, now in order to compensate you for your years of unjust treatment, you can now go live in the country that was behind that treatment!"

:rolleyes:
 
Re: "Vast majority" of Gitmo prisoners "never posed any real risk to America at all"

Why do you assume that they would even WANT to "move in the states" (did you mean move TO the states?) ???

How could that be considered payment?

"Okay, now in order to compensate you for your years of unjust treatment, you can now go live in the country that was behind that treatment!"

:rolleyes:

You tell me...since we are being so evil to all these innocent people at Gitmo. Lets see perharps giving them access to our legal system, then buying them some houses, giving them some welfare, move to the states?? shit go to New York city and see who drives the cabs and owns most of the stores even the porn ones on 42 street it seems to me that they do love America. Like I said since most of you are so worried about them lets bring them all over here to the states and be friends.
 
Re: "Vast majority" of Gitmo prisoners "never posed any real risk to America at all"

If the battle for civilization comes down to the wimps versus the barbarians, the barbarians are going to win.”
Thomas Sowell

Hence we will loose :(
 
Re: "Vast majority" of Gitmo prisoners "never posed any real risk to America at all"

You tell me...since we are being so evil to all these innocent people at Gitmo. Lets see perharps giving them access to our legal system, then buying them some houses, giving them some welfare, move to the states?? shit go to New York city and see who drives the cabs and owns most of the stores even the porn ones on 42 street it seems to me that they do love America. Like I said since most of you are so worried about them lets bring them all over here to the states and be friends.

Please don't include ME in your "we." If it were up to me, they wouldn't be in Gitmo, Gitmo wouldn't have opened. The people who are being "evil" are those who are the tools in the Bush administration and those who voted for Bush, most especially those who voted for him the SECOND time around.

Anyway, yes, since these people have been imprisoned by the U.S., then they should obviously have access to our legal system. It's not like Iceland should be responsible for them or whatever....

As for the rest of your rant (the cab drivers and the porn store owners, etc.), I don't even know what your point is. Sounds like bigotry, but maybe you're being sincere. Perhaps you think they were treated unjustly and should be entitled to a free house and other welfare. Well, if they've been imprisoned for years (perhaps as much as 6-7 years now) wrongly, then why not? IF they want to take these things. But probably what they really want is to go home and be left alone and to try to have some semblance of a normal life. Of course having the black mark of so many years in Gitmo might make that harder. Perhaps they'll hold a grudge.
:dunno:
That's not so hard to understand, is it?
 
Re: "Vast majority" of Gitmo prisoners "never posed any real risk to America at all"

Please don't include ME in your "we." If it were up to me, they wouldn't be in Gitmo, Gitmo wouldn't have opened. The people who are being "evil" are those who are the tools in the Bush administration and those who voted for Bush, most especially those who voted for him the SECOND time around.

Anyway, yes, since these people have been imprisoned by the U.S., then they should obviously have access to our legal system. It's not like Iceland should be responsible for them or whatever....

As for the rest of your rant (the cab drivers and the porn store owners, etc.), I don't even know what your point is. Sounds like bigotry, but maybe you're being sincere. Perhaps you think they were treated unjustly and should be entitled to a free house and other welfare. Well, if they've been imprisoned for years (perhaps as much as 6-7 years now) wrongly, then why not? IF they want to take these things. But probably what they really want is to go home and be left alone and to try to have some semblance of a normal life. Of course having the black mark of so many years in Gitmo might make that harder. Perhaps they'll hold a grudge.
:dunno:
That's not so hard to understand, is it?

Not at all, I see that you are swallowing this whole story and assuming that all these folks are sooo innocent. That is so naive on your part, but good intentions never killed anyone. did it?

Barack Obama the greatest human being in the world will make ammends and solve these folks situation, he will organize them in communities and...ah shit there I go ranting again...
 
Re: "Vast majority" of Gitmo prisoners "never posed any real risk to America at all"

Not at all, I see that you are swallowing this whole story and assuming that all these folks are sooo innocent. That is so naive on your part, but good intentions never killed anyone. did it?

Barack Obama the greatest human being in the world will make ammends and solve these folks situation, he will organize them in communities and...ah shit there I go ranting again...

Well, it's a foundational concept to American law, one of the ideas that makes the U.S. legal system a moral model - the assumption of innocence until a person is proved to be guilty. If you wish to call something that's so American "naive" that's your choice. What I think is naive is the authoritarian mindset that you display so openly. Your leaders in government (namely Rumsfeld, Bush, Cheney, etc.) have told you that the Gitmo prisoners were/are "the worst of the worst" so you simply believe them. Any form of healthy skepticism is switched off.

When you have a system to handle "evil-doers" that is outside of the country that the system is supposedly designed to protect, it creates a situation where there can be no oversight of how things are done. When you simply offer bounties for "evil-doers" and accept whoever is brought in, not considering the fact that people might LIE to make some fast cash and get rid of an old enemy or troublesome neighbor, that is naive. It's also ineffective at fighting terrorism.

When that is the situation set up to capture terrorists then I will assume that a large percentage of those brought in will not really be terrorists at all, and I will be shown to be correct, in time. If any real terrorists are caught, that's great, but it doesn't justify the means, which will likely create and encourage just as many NEW terrorists as it will catch old ones.

Those who take the approach "If Donald Rumsfeld says that they're all the 'worst of the worst' then I'm going to take his word for it" are actually the naive ones, suckers and tools, to be blunt.

And your straw man that I, or anyone else has said that Obama is "the greatest human being in the world" is just plain dumb, and warrants no further response.

The United States didn't even detain most of these assumed criminals in the first place.

Where is the blame on the countries who handed their detainees over to us? :dunno: Why is it solely the responsibility of the United States to do thorough investigations into all of the assumed criminals that had already been detained by other countries?

Once again, the media loooooves to make the United States look like the only bad guy.

If you're offering up cash-for-criminals, it is your job to vet the bountyhunters and to verify their claims.

Did the media looooooove to make the U.S. look like the only bad guy in the run-up to our invasion of Iraq? Hardly.
 

Facetious

Moderated
Re: "Vast majority" of Gitmo prisoners "never posed any real risk to America at all"

gitmo ? That's sooooo yesterday. :p

Oh, so the same could happen to me in my own country, you say ?

I will not be taken alive !! ø:helpme:ø
 
Re: "Vast majority" of Gitmo prisoners "never posed any real risk to America at all"

Well, it's a foundational concept to American law, one of the ideas that makes the U.S. legal system a moral model - the assumption of innocence until a person is proved to be guilty. If you wish to call something that's so American "naive" that's your choice. What I think is naive is the authoritarian mindset that you display so openly. Your leaders in government (namely Rumsfeld, Bush, Cheney, etc.) have told you that the Gitmo prisoners were/are "the worst of the worst" so you simply believe them. Any form of healthy skepticism is switched off.

When you have a system to handle "evil-doers" that is outside of the country that the system is supposedly designed to protect, it creates a situation where there can be no oversight of how things are done. When you simply offer bounties for "evil-doers" and accept whoever is brought in, not considering the fact that people might LIE to make some fast cash and get rid of an old enemy or troublesome neighbor, that is naive. It's also ineffective at fighting terrorism.

When that is the situation set up to capture terrorists then I will assume that a large percentage of those brought in will not really be terrorists at all, and I will be shown to be correct, in time. If any real terrorists are caught, that's great, but it doesn't justify the means, which will likely create and encourage just as many NEW terrorists as it will catch old ones.

Those who take the approach "If Donald Rumsfeld says that they're all the 'worst of the worst' then I'm going to take his word for it" are actually the naive ones, suckers and tools, to be blunt.

And your straw man that I, or anyone else has said that Obama is "the greatest human being in the world" is just plain dumb, and warrants no further response.



If you're offering up cash-for-criminals, it is your job to vet the bountyhunters and to verify their claims.

Did the media looooooove to make the U.S. look like the only bad guy in the run-up to our invasion of Iraq? Hardly.



Tell it to the folks that gave Bush and Rumsfeld their second term, wait those are the ones mad at every republican there is an McCain and are voting for Barack.

Yeah your intentions and motives are weak and missguided so I called them naive so I would not offend you.

I got done saying bad things about Obama and I am joining the band wagon on saying that he is the greatest thing ever since Nintendo!

Your solutions and concern are good intentions at best. But are you not being a bit or should I say aren't you impossing on other people U.S. rights quaranteed by the U.S. Constitution even if they don't want it? Are you impliying that we make everyone in the world a U.S. citizen? Last time I checked it only applied to U.S. citizens or I might be wrong...
 
Re: "Vast majority" of Gitmo prisoners "never posed any real risk to America at all"

Tell it to the folks that gave Bush and Rumsfeld their second term, wait those are the ones mad at every republican there is an McCain and are voting for Barack.

Yeah your intentions and motives are weak and missguided so I called them naive so I would not offend you.

I got done saying bad things about Obama and I am joining the band wagon on saying that he is the greatest thing ever since Nintendo!

Your solutions and concern are good intentions at best. But are you not being a bit or should I say aren't you impossing on other people U.S. rights quaranteed by the U.S. Constitution even if they don't want it? Are you impliying that we make everyone in the world a U.S. citizen? Last time I checked it only applied to U.S. citizens or I might be wrong...


FYI,rights and protections guaranteed by the constitution apply to all persons accused of crimes by our judicial system or at least in theory they are supposed to.The supreme court had rendered several decisions already that what the Bush administration has done with the detainess has not complied with the the constitution. The "Hamdi" case being one example,the guy who was Bin ladens chauffeur and was recently finally given a trial.His sentence was basically the amount of time he has already been in custody(about 5 years) although the govt is appealing.What has happened in guantanamo would make the founders spin in their graves as the lack of due process afforded to those being held was one of the things the revolution was fought over.
 
Re: "Vast majority" of Gitmo prisoners "never posed any real risk to America at all"

FYI,rights and protections guaranteed by the constitution apply to all persons accused of crimes by our judicial system or at least in theory they are supposed to.The supreme court had rendered several decisions already that what the Bush administration has done with the detainess hads not complied with the the constitutionThe "Hamdi" case being one example,the guy who was Bin ladens chauffeur and was recently finally given a trial.His sentence was basically the amount of time he has already been in custody(about 5 years) although the govt is appealing.What has happened in guantanamo would make the founders spin in their graves as the lack of due process afforded to those being held was one of the things the revolution was fought over.

The laws and even the interpretation of the Geneva Convention were changed to protect the president and his cabinet from prosecution for acts of torture, detaining without representation and atrocities during the Bush administration. In other words they made it legal to virtually get away with murder. Laws protecting Americans in the US from surveillance and phone taps were also changed.

Spying on the Home Front
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/homefront/view

Cheney has a whole documentary on some of his actions, and at one point had his people approach Ashcroft on his presumed deathbed to sign off on changes they needed immediately.

Cheney's Law
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/cheney/
 

ChefChiTown

The secret ingredient? MY BALLS
Re: "Vast majority" of Gitmo prisoners "never posed any real risk to America at all"

Did the media looooooove to make the U.S. look like the only bad guy in the run-up to our invasion of Iraq? Hardly.

You don't watch the news or read the newspaper, do you? :dunno:

With the exception of the first few weeks after we bombed Afghanistan, the media has butchered the US for having troops overseas. They don't mention a thing about how 21 other countries have supplied troops and support our cause (Albania, Armenia, Australia, Azerbaijan, Bosnia-Herzegovina, Bulgaria, Czech Republic, Denmark, El Salvador, Estonia, Georgia, Kazakhstan, Latvia, Lithuania, Macedonia, Moldova, Mongolia, Poland, Romania, South Korea, and the United Kingdom). The only time that those countries get mentioned is if one of their soldier's dies. All they do is report on how many soldiers have died. That's it. They hardly ever report on any progress that's been made...just the dead soldiers and other set-backs. Once again, pointing the blame towards the United States, and the United States alone, for having troops in Iraq.

Plus, how many commercials do you see that support our government in any way, shape or form? ZERO. But, how many commercials do you see which show an Iraq War "veteran" (who is usually no more than 20-22 years old), bashing Bush and our government for sending them to Iraq in the first place? I see dozens of those commercials every single day. Why do you suppose that is?

Answer: Because the media does nothing but make the US look like the bad guy on a constant basis...even if that media is from our own country.
 
Re: "Vast majority" of Gitmo prisoners "never posed any real risk to America at all"

I think a lot of that was pressure. Remember this?

Excerpt from the Prosecution of George W. Bush for Murder, he puts these things well. He is all over the fact I saw as obvious at the time that Bush wanted war regardless of any major reason not to attack Iraq.

I would like to raise one other matter, the effort of France to take this nation back from the brink of a catastrophic war, before getting to a discussion of Bush's second lie.

When France, Germany, Russia, China and most other nations that were members of the UN refused to go along with Bush's rush to war, many insipid American's started viciously attacking France verbally, even going so far as to boycott French food and restaurants. And even after it was discovered that Hussein had no WMD and was not involved in 9/11, these meathead Americans continued their denunciation of France. But the reality is that France never opposed the notion of war with Iraq. Responsibly seeking to avoid, if posible, the inevitable horor of armed conflict, it only opposed Bush's mad and irresponsible rush to war in Iraq. Such a war, French president Jacques Chirac feared, would outrage Arab and Islamic public opinion and "creat a large number of little Bin Ladens". In a joint interview with CBS and CNN in Paris on March 16, 2003 three days before Bush invaded Iraq, Chirac said, "France is not pacifist. We are not anti-American either. But we just feel there is another option, another more normal way, a less dramatic wy than war. and we should pursue it until we've come to a dead end, but that isn't the case"

Can you imagine that after a lie like that, Arab and Islamic public opinion would explode against US policy? Who would have guessed? :rolleyes: Thanks George Bush! Is it just possible Chirac had more brains and insight than his counterpart in the US? :dunno:
 
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