UN Security Council Resolution 2334

[bodie54]

The US does give Israel Billions every year. Many Many Billions.

No not "many many".
3.7 billion per year in military aid. Last I looked that's roughly 4 tenths of one percent of the federal budget.

And if Israel was not stealing land then why the resolution. Are all the members of the UN anti Israel now?

Agree with you (and every president in my lifetime) that the settlements issue is a major impediment to the peace process. The Palestinians may never be willing to recognize the legitimacy of Israel, and if that's the case they can go fuck themselves imo.
But that recognition would likely be aided by Israel waking up to the fact the settlements are doing nothing but creating even more anger and mistrust among those they wish to influence.

 

[xfire]

Well fuck off for calling me insane.

And the lie detector determined that was a lie.

 

[meesterperfect]

No not "many many".
3.7 billion per year in military aid. Last I looked that's roughly 4 tenths of one percent of the federal budget.



Agree with you (and every president in my lifetime) that the settlements issue is a major impediment to the peace process. The Palestinians may never be willing to recognize the legitimacy of Israel, and if that's the case they can go fuck themselves imo.
But that recognition would likely be aided by Israel waking up to the fact the settlements are doing nothing but creating even more anger and mistrust among those they wish to influence.

Glad to hear you say that. Most of it.
I do think that whether or not Palestine "recognizes" Israel is not really an issue.
I think they do and either way they really have no choice. Israel is there like it or not.

One thing I think people need to see also is the will of the Israeli people.
Just like in the US not everybody is on board with the GOV.
They object to many things their GOV does.
Most of the Israeli GOV are warhawks, soldiers, Mossad agents that came from the 1967 and post 1967 war mentality.
Very similar to the Bush Administration crew.
Only in Israel you cant really protest or speak out against the GOV like in the Bush years.
Side note funny how all the critics of Bush regarding wars and privacy and the Patriot Act suddenly went away and have now all but disappeared when Barry came to town even though as far as those issues (War, Privacy, Patriot Act) the Barry years have been much more extreme, just not reported by the MSM as they were during Bush.

Anyway. The main core of the problem is the ever growing expansion of Israel.
I think many Israelis and Jews around the world are against it but cant speak out due that label anti semite which can destroy your life.

Too bad definitive borders cant be defined and adhered to.

As far as this current event?
I think it has to do with the meetings of Netanyahoo with Trump/Clinton the day before the 1st debate.
Trump must have demonstrated better fellatio skills that day so Israel did little to help Clinton.
This move by the US in the UN is retaliation for that. Even Kerry today spoke out in favor of the resolution.
But once Trump takes office it looks like it will be business as usual with the Israeli GOV meaning whatever they do is just dandy.

And Bodes the Us gives Israel a lot more than 3.7 billion each year.
But even that is too much for any country, especially one that is very well off.

 

[Jack Davenport]

The U.N. Security Council has presented 20 resolutions this year alone against Israel.

Against the rest of the member nations 4.

 

[bodie54]

I do think that whether or not Palestine "recognizes" Israel is not really an issue.

It's a huge issue to Israel, and understandably. Would you want your next door neighbor consistently avowing that you have no right to exist, let alone live next door to them, while initiating acts that endanger or kill members your family? Of course not.

And Bodes the Us gives Israel a lot more than 3.7 billion each year.

Show me the numbers. You said many many billion. In the past I think you've said tens or even hundreds of billions.

The U.N. Security Council has presented 20 resolutions this year alone against Israel. Against the rest of the member nations 4.

In eight years this is the first one Obama hasn't stepped up for them on.
That makes him the all time most Israel friendly president in that regard.
The scoreboard in sanctioning resolutions against Israel:

LBJ 7
Nixon 15
Ford 2
Carter 14
Reagan 21
GHWB 9
Clinton 3
GWB 6
Obama 1

 

[Jack Davenport]

It's a huge issue to Israel, and understandably. Would you want your next door neighbor consistently avowing that you have no right to exist, let alone live next door to them, while initiating acts that endanger or kill members your family? Of course not.



Show me the numbers. You said many many billion. In the past I think you've said tens or even hundreds of billions.



In eight years this is the first one Obama hasn't stepped up for them on.
That makes him the all time most Israel friendly president in that regard.
The scoreboard in sanctioning resolutions against Israel:

LBJ 7
Nixon 15
Ford 2
Carter 14
Reagan 21
GHWB 9
Clinton 3
GWB 6
Obama 1

This is the same weak argument that Obama has issued less executive orders than other presidents.
It is the substance of the resolutions that are at issue here. Just as it was with the EO's.
Research the substance of those resolutions and it will become clear that none reached the level of this most recent one.

Perhaps the low information crowd will buy the spin but I don't.
Apples to oranges in all its glory.

20 resolutions against Israel this year alone.

The U.N. is a disgrace.

 

[bodie54]

Research the substance of those resolutions and it will become clear that none reached the level of this most recent one.

Worse than Reagan supporting the UN Security Council's condemnation of Israel bombing an Iraqi nuclear reactor? A resolution that also called on Israel to place it's own nuclear sites under international safeguard? And further punished it by temporarily suspending aid in the form of F-16 fighters?
Acts the Israeli cabinet responded to by stating "With profound regret, we note that the United States, our friend and ally” had “lent its hand to the grave wrong done to Israel.”

Worse than Reagan giving Yasser Arafat and the PLO leadership protection from Israel by allowing them to go into exile in Tunisia, while also entering into a dialogue with them, reversing the U.S. policy of refusing to recognize the terrorist organization, thereby undermining Israel's effort to delegitimize the PLO in hopes of alternate leadership replacing it?

Worse than Reagan selling AWACS radar planes to Saudi Arabia in direct opposition to Israeli wishes - and as an emphatic public slap in the face to Begin?

No. I really don't think so.
All I see Obama doing is paying more than lip service to the disapproval and censure each of his presidential predecessors has voiced regarding the Israeli settlements being an impediment to a possible peace process.

 

[sean miguel]

As I understand the wording from this latest resolution, the Western Wall and the Temple Mount would be foreign territory to the jews in Israel. That alone is more significant to the jews in Israel and the world than all those things you mentioned. Not to mention losing half of their capital and then having ISIS, Syria, Russia or whatever hostile force raining down artillery fire on Israeli towns from the Golan Heights.

 

[rivasky]

The Simon Wiesenthal Center each year publishes a ranking of the 10 worst incidents of anti-semitism. For 2016, Obama tops the list. Congratulations!

http://www.wiesenthal.com/atf/cf/{54d385e6-f1b9-4e9f-8e94-890c3e6dd277}/TT_2016REPORT.PDF

 

[Jack Davenport]

Worse than Reagan supporting the UN Security Council's condemnation of Israel bombing an Iraqi nuclear reactor? A resolution that also called on Israel to place it's own nuclear sites under international safeguard? And further punished it by temporarily suspending aid in the form of F-16 fighters?
Acts the Israeli cabinet responded to by stating "With profound regret, we note that the United States, our friend and ally” had “lent its hand to the grave wrong done to Israel.”

Worse than Reagan giving Yasser Arafat and the PLO leadership protection from Israel by allowing them to go into exile in Tunisia, while also entering into a dialogue with them, reversing the U.S. policy of refusing to recognize the terrorist organization, thereby undermining Israel's effort to delegitimize the PLO in hopes of alternate leadership replacing it?

Worse than Reagan selling AWACS radar planes to Saudi Arabia in direct opposition to Israeli wishes - and as an emphatic public slap in the face to Begin?

No. I really don't think so.
All I see Obama doing is paying more than lip service to the disapproval and censure each of his presidential predecessors has voiced regarding the Israeli settlements being an impediment to a possible peace process.

There have been roughly 200 resolutions agsinst Israel that the United States either abstained from or voted for. Most involved peacekeeping forces and are not counted as condemnation.

Israel is not beyond reproach and the U.S. is not supposed to be a rubber stamp but each time that Reagan or Bush Sr. supported a resolution against Israel it was in response to an individual action taken by Israel.
This latest resolution is unique in that it was an abstention of a resolution condemning Israel's basic claims of territory fundamental to the Jewish state not an action taken by them.

It is also becoming clear that Kerry and the U.S. colluded to craft the resolution which is unprecedented.

 

[meesterperfect]

I'm gonna back out on this one because I've said about all I want.
The final thing I';m going to say is where do some of you get your info on Israelis being attacked, hurt, harrassed or interfered with in any way by the Palestinians?
Are we talking about some 10 year olds throwing a rock at a cop?
And if someone did chuck a grenade or something at some israelis given the Mossads deserved reputation for deception who knows if it wasnt them to create a reason to drop some more bombs on the palestinians.

Nobody is fucking with the israelis. Palestine doesnt even have an army. I dont know if they even have police.
The aggression is from the Israelis.
Forget you know anything about anybody there. Just group A and Group B.
Would you defend Group A taking even one home from Group B by force?
Deny Group B the delivery of water food or medicine?
Apply curfews to group B to where they sometimes cant leave their house for days and if they do they get shot at?
Designate roads in which only Group A can travel on?
Setup armed checkpoints all over the place making everyday life miserable for group B?
Arrest and detain members of group B with no just cause?
Dropping bombs and even white phosphorous on civilians?
How many palestinian civilians die every year from isreali bullets and bombs?
Dont look to the US lamestream media to find out.

There are some serious human rights violations against the Palestinians by the Israelis over there. Even against lower class Israelis.
Israel is a total police state. A country run by former and current military and Mossad war mongers.
What unbiased moral human being can justify any of that.
It's really hard to negotiate borders or peace when one group thinks of the other as sub human.

Forget what CNN tells you and look it up yourselves if you want.

 

[bodie54]

This latest resolution is unique in that it was an abstention of a resolution condemning Israel's basic claims of territory fundamental to the Jewish state not an action taken by them.

The "action" taken has been settling of over 600,000 Israelis in occupied territory.
And I'll return to Reagan again regarding such settlements being fundamental to the Jewish state: “Further settlement activity is in no way necessary for the security of Israel and only diminishes the confidence of the Arabs that a final outcome can be free and fairly negotiated.”

 

[Jack Davenport]

The "action" taken has been settling of over 600,000 Israelis in occupied territory.
And I'll return to Reagan again regarding such settlements being fundamental to the Jewish state: “Further settlement activity is in no way necessary for the security of Israel and only diminishes the confidence of the Arabs that a final outcome can be free and fairly negotiated.”

"Occupied territory"

Horseshit.

The areas at and near the Western Wall and Old Jerusalem are not occupied territory.

They are lands deeded to the Jews through the Treaty of Lausanne.

The Palestinians are staking claim to areas that do not belong to them. They are not even indigenous to the area. They are mostly Jordanians. They are much like the Lumbee Indians, ( actually mixed race blacks) that claim to be native Americans.

This boils down to people that dislike and resent the Jews for claiming the lands that have been theirs since biblical times.

It must be something to find themselves more aligned with Skinheads, Nazis and Hezbollah than Jews that just want to exist.

 

[sean miguel]

it's disputed territory not "occupied," unless you side with the Palestinian Authority, Hamas, Hezbollah, the Islamic Republic of Iran, ISIS, Al-Qaeda, the Muslim Brotherhood, Boko Haram, the Taliban, Abu Sayaf, IRA, the Aryan Nation, KKK, and that bloated fuck Michael Moore among others.


I like how not a single jew can live in Gaza or eastern Jerusalem without it being an affront and a violation of palestinian* sovereignty, but arabs can live, work, become citizens of Israel and even serve in the knesset.

It's jews who are the problem, right?


________
* arabs occupying Judea and Samaria

 

[sean miguel]

we already tried the 1948 and 1967 borders ... in 1948 and 1967.

 

[meesterperfect]

Horseshit.

The areas at and near the Western Wall and Old Jerusalem are not occupied territory.

They are lands deeded to the Jews through the Treaty of Lausanne.

The Palestinians are staking claim to areas that do not belong to them. They are not even indigenous to the area. They are mostly Jordanians. They are much like the Lumbee Indians, ( actually mixed race blacks) that claim to be native Americans.

This boils down to people that dislike and resent the Jews for claiming the lands that have been theirs since biblical times.

It must be something to find themselves more aligned with Skinheads, Nazis and Hezbollah than Jews that just want to exist.

Poor Alfalfa. Oh poor poor Alfalfa.
Did I say Alfalfa? I meant Jews. Actually Israelis. Actually the Israeli GOV.

Lets see the UN passes a resolution, again, that deems the illegal settlements on Palestinian land to be illegal.
And this time the USA was not there to veto it down. Meaning to say fuck off world, we do what we want.
And ofcourse Netanyahoo is out there crying "how dare the US not intervene. It's their job to allow us to do whatever we want".

Building Israeli settlements on Palestinian land is illegal. End of story.

But I know. The God Argument.
Its there land because they were there 3000 years ago according to a book.
Even though no maps exist showing this. Maps do exist going back to the middle ages saying PALESTINE.

But lets go with the God arguement just for laughs.
The majority of people in Israel are Ashkenazi Jews who migrated to the region after WWI and II. They are not related at all to the hebrews in the bible. Not at all. Not one bit.
They are decended from Khazars from central Asia near present day Georgia who converted to Judiaism in 800 AD.
About one hundred years later they started migrating into Russia and Europe.
So they have no blood relation to the hebrew tribes of biblical times and DNA testng has proved this.
Therefore the only claim they have to that land, if you believe in the book, is that they adopted the religion of the people that lived there about 2000 years after the fact.

But all that wouldn't matter if israel would just draw their borders. Something they have never done.
Maybe if they did that they would be doing themselves and the world a favor.
Its 2017. Every country in the world has borders. Not Isreal. They do what they want and if you have a problem with it youre anti semite.
But if they did they would be expected to stick by those borders which they have no intentions of ever doing.
And for those who say the Palestinians refuse to recognize Isreal as a country or state...how can they do that if Israel wont define their own borders?

 

[sean miguel]

bump.

read my replies in this thread and marvel at my grasp of the situation and quite frankly, my brilliance.


no need for false modesty.

 

[bodie54]

it's disputed territory not "occupied," unless you side with the Palestinian Authority, Hamas, Hezbollah, the Islamic Republic of Iran, ISIS, Al-Qaeda, the Muslim Brotherhood, Boko Haram, the Taliban, Abu Sayaf, IRA, the Aryan Nation, KKK, and that bloated fuck Michael Moore among others.

Do tell?
According to international law it's occupied territory, and has been referred to as such by every president since Johnson (with the exception perhaps of Reagan).

 

[sean miguel]

Do tell?
According to international law it's occupied territory, and has been referred to as such by every president since Johnson (with the exception perhaps of Reagan).

baahahahahaha international law </bleating sheep>. International law is only as good as the ability (or the will) to enforce it. International law didn't stop Israel's arab neighbors from trying to wipe it from existence on multiple occasions. And every President (except our current one : ) has referred to Taiwain as part of China when in reality it's it's own sovereign state.


How many international laws is the U.S. guilty of breaking? That's not rhetorical. Please provide.

 

[sean miguel]

again, the majority of what was Palestine and where the majority of arabs resided is what is known as Jordan today. But that wasn't / isn't enough.

Here's the Israeli/Palestinian conflict reduced to it's indivisible prime:

Israel: we're willing to give up x amount of land for peace

Palestinians: that's nice, but you still exist so, no.


What did that Egyptian Yassir Arafat walk away from in the Oslo Accords and instead set off another intifada?


this could be settled tomorrow either way.