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this asshole actually has a website

yea, i get re directed to a page sayin that the page was taken off the net. its bandwidth was sold and now someone else is gonna put it to good use
 
hmm. this whole thing reminded of an article I read a while back...

"Rights Vs. Facts

I have noticed that some people put the maintenance of rights in the context of declaring the need for and allegiance to the Bill Of Rights and other parts of the Constitution; and that's great, but somewhere along the way it dawned on me, I don't need rights, I have facts. So here they are:

I have a mouth. I can say whatever the fuck I want, whenever I want, to whomever I want.

I have two arms, two legs, a heart and a brain;
To the best of my ability I will do no harm and raise my fellows up;

Any set of rights or responsibilities or laws that get in the way of this pursuit will be promptly ignored, circumvented or broken.

You have the ability to stop me if you are willing to kill me."
 
Your right AsianxxxChick, my apologies. I wasn't so much directing it at you though as i was trying to make a generalistic staement twards people against the worry. Again, i'm sorry. I just misunderstood what you wrote.
 

om3ga

It's good to be the king...
I noticed that the link now leads to the New England Police Network........

:rofl:

Serves the bozo right.

On a serious note to the anti-military contingent in this forum: I sincerely respect your views. However until everyone on planet Earth will treat each other as kindred spirits irrespective of race, creed or religion, our countries will require a military to defend those freedoms we cherish.

How said military is used by our governments is the important question (imo).
 
Well, I was in the army for about a year (compulsory service here in Greece) and I can tell you that a man can get nuts in such a place(and consider that the only blood I have seen during my time was by cutting my finger while peeling some potatoes....). So I can't even begin to consider under what pressure those troops in Iraq and other hot spots are under.
But...I totally agree with **********. Armies don't guarantee a nations safety. And the American army in particular....I mean, America doesn't really need an army that big....And it's use is not to protect Americans (after all, as fox already has pointed out, America has never been invaded), but as a show of force to the world, a vital part of industry,and for giving Bush a hard-on by playing the role of Planetary policeman. And the real trouble is that the American army (or at least, the American administration) doesn't "protect" only American freedom, but tries to hand over freedom to other nations, as if freedom is food rations or coupons....And how does it do that? By invading a country. And then keeping occupying forces.
I like soldiers, they are the poor buggers who have their guts spilled out, they get court-martialed if they don't fight too hard, they get shouted at when they fight too good, almost no one remembers them....They are not the ones who decide to fight. They just follow orders. The ones who really get me is the bastards who decide the wars (and, despite my non-violent charachter, I would love to give George Bush a little something to remember me everytime the weather changes....) and those who sit behind a rock in the battlefield, wearing the only helmet around and shouting "Charge, my braves!" (I have been one of the "braves" in training, and almost had my teeth knocked out by step 3....)
 

Ax3C

Banned
Rastagir said:
(after all, as fox already has pointed out, America has never been invaded)


Goddamn, I hate when people post stuff that is historically incorrect... especially when it comes to military history.

Rastagir, I'm not trying to flame you or make you look the fool or anything remotely similar, so please don't misunderstand me. I'm only correcting your information since you're not a native of my country and may not fully know its history. Cool?

While America has never been "invaded" in the literal sense (i.e., hordes of blood-thirsty soldiers running amok through our streets; raping, pillaging, and otherwise creating havoc and chaos) we have indeed had invasions on our home soil:

(01). War of 1812 - 18 June 1812

The War of 1812 was fought between the United States and United Kingdom from 1812 to 1815, on land in North America and at sea around the world.

Although the United States was officially at war with Great Britain, more than half of the British forces were made up of Canadian militia. Additionally, many North American Indian peoples (today most often called "Native Americans" in the United States and "First Nations" in Canada) fought on both sides of the war for reasons of their own. In the Northwest Territory, the War was, in a sense, a continuation of Tecumseh's War after his defeat in the Battle of Tippecanoe in 1811.

The war formally began on June 18, 1812 with the U.S. declaration of war. The United States launched invasions of the Canadian provinces in 1812 and 1813, but the borders were successfully defended by British and North American Indian forces. The United States gained the upper hand in the North American Indian part of war with victories at the Battle of the Thames in October 1813 and the Battle of Horseshoe Bend in March 1814, but by this time the United Kingdom had successfully concluded the Napoleonic wars and the British were finally able to divert more resources to North America. British invasions of American territory resulted in the burning of Washington, D.C. and the capture of part of the District of Maine, but the British counteroffensive was turned back at Lake Champlain, Baltimore, and New Orleans. The Treaty of Ghent (ratified in 1815) restored the status quo ante bellum between the combatants.

Although the War of 1812 ended as a victory for the Canadian side, Americans often refer to it as a stalemate and it is often only dimly remembered south of the border it established. It had many effects on the futures of those involved. The war created a greater sense of nationalism in both Canada and the United States. The successful defense of the Canadian provinces against American invasion ultimately ensured the survival of Canada as a nation, and the end of the war marked the decline of a longstanding desire of many Americans to see the British Empire expelled entirely from North America. Peace between the United States and British North America also meant that North American Indians could no longer use conflicts between the two powers to defend native lands against the expansion of white settlement.


(02). 07 December 1941 - Pearl Harbor, U.S. Naval Base, Oahu, Hawaii

On the morning of December 7, 1941, planes and midget submarines of the Imperial Japanese Navy issued a surprise attack on the US under the command of Vice Admiral Chuichi Nagumo. This attack brought the United States into World War II. At 6:00 a.m. on December 7th the six Japanese carriers launched a first wave of 181 planes composed of torpedo bombers, dive-bombers, horizontal bombers and fighters. The Japanese hit American ships and military installations at 7:53 a.m.. They attacked military airfields at the same time they hit the fleet anchored in Pearl Harbor. Overall, twenty-one ships of the U.S. Pacific fleet were damaged.

Also known as "A Day That Will Live In Infamy"


(03). 11 September 2001 - World Trade Center Complex, New York City, New York

The September 11, 2001 attacks (also referred to as 9/11), the worst and most infamous act of terrorism in World history, were a series of coordinated suicide attacks upon the United States of America carried out on Tuesday, September 11, 2001, in which hijackers took control of four U.S. domestic commercial airliners. The hijackers crashed two planes into the World Trade Center in Manhattan, New York City — one into each of the two tallest towers, about 18 minutes apart. Within two hours, both towers had collapsed. The hijackers crashed the third aircraft into the U.S. Department of Defense headquarters, the Pentagon, in Arlington County, Virginia. The fourth plane crashed into a rural field in Somerset County, Pennsylvania, 80 miles (129 km) east of Pittsburgh, following passenger resistance. The official count records 2,986 deaths in the attacks, including the hijackers.

The National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States (9/11 Commission) states in its final report that the nineteen hijackers who carried out the attack were terrorists, and were all affiliated with the Islamic Al-Qaeda organization. The report named Osama bin Laden, a Saudi national, as the leader of Al-Qaeda, and as the person ultimately suspected responsible for the attacks, with the actual planning being undertaken by Khalid Shaikh Mohammed.

Bin Laden categorically denied involvement in two 2001 statements [1], before admitting in a taped statement a direct link to the attacks.

The 9/11 Commission reported that these hijackers turned the planes into the largest suicide bombs in history. The September 11th attacks are among the most significant events to have occurred so far in the 21st century in terms of the profound economic, social, political, cultural, psychological and military effects that followed in the United States and many other parts of the world.


While I have nothing but the utmost respect for those who have served in their respective armed forces where ever they may reside, be it here or elsewhere, I'm going to take a moment and explain some things to some of y'all.

America is not a police-state. We are a democracy. Our President does not make the decisions solely on a whim or on the fly. It takes a ratification / declaration by the United States Congress in order for us to go to war. The President does not hold that kind of power. We have three branches of government - Judicial, Legislative, and Executive. Their powers are balanced by each other. No one arm of our government is anymore powerful than the other. Furthermore, we are not run by a tin-pot despot nor are we ruled with an iron fist by a megalomaniac dictator. We may have had some vainglorious and inept leaders in our time, but I guarantee you that the United States of America - and her military - has pulled more asses out of the fire and out of harm's way than any other country that is considered to be our allies.

True, I will acknowledge that our goverment is imperfect and often seems to have its share of ridiculously comical and inept leaders. However, I get completely sick and tired when people who live elsewhere run my country down and talk about how we always seem to butt in to other countries' affairs and "occupy" those lands by force. We do nothing of the kind. It is THOSE countries - the very ones who later spit on us, deride our country, and in general, just act like complete fucking asses - who always seem to clamor for all kinds of financial assistance and other aid from the United States Of America.

Please ... and this goes to everyone who posts about matters such as this:

If you're going to post, post your opinions. I will respect you more for your opinions if you speak your mind and engage in constructive debate. But if you're going to post facts, then you better make damned sure you DO post facts and not some made up bull-shit from someone else who hasn't a clue about what goes on in the United States military.

And yes, people ... I DO know what the United States military does; namely, the United States Marine Corps. Trust me on that score. A lot of you already know from what stance I speak.

That is all.

Semper Fi, Mac.
 
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Rastagir said:
Well, I was in the army for about a year (compulsory service here in Greece) and I can tell you that a man can get nuts in such a place(and consider that the only blood I have seen during my time was by cutting my finger while peeling some potatoes....). So I can't even begin to consider under what pressure those troops in Iraq and other hot spots are under.
But...I totally agree with **********. Armies don't guarantee a nations safety. And the American army in particular....I mean, America doesn't really need an army that big....And it's use is not to protect Americans (after all, as fox already has pointed out, America has never been invaded), but as a show of force to the world, a vital part of industry,and for giving Bush a hard-on by playing the role of Planetary policeman. And the real trouble is that the American army (or at least, the American administration) doesn't "protect" only American freedom, but tries to hand over freedom to other nations, as if freedom is food rations or coupons....And how does it do that? By invading a country. And then keeping occupying forces.
I like soldiers, they are the poor buggers who have their guts spilled out, they get court-martialed if they don't fight too hard, they get shouted at when they fight too good, almost no one remembers them....They are not the ones who decide to fight. They just follow orders. The ones who really get me is the bastards who decide the wars (and, despite my non-violent charachter, I would love to give George Bush a little something to remember me everytime the weather changes....) and those who sit behind a rock in the battlefield, wearing the only helmet around and shouting "Charge, my braves!" (I have been one of the "braves" in training, and almost had my teeth knocked out by step 3....)

Re-read your history. America was invaded during the war of 1812, and our capitol was burned to the ground. Pearl Harbor counts as an invasion in my book. Don't forget the islands west of Alaska that count as American terratory. A large Military is neccecery as a deterant to potential aggressors. This goes for all countries. The best defense is a strong offence. I by no means agree with how many leaders use their militarys, but I fully support the folks who put on a uniform to protect their respective nations, and I fully agree with their exsistance.
 

Ax3C

Banned
The Captain said:
Re-read your history. America was invaded during the war of 1812, and our capitol was burned to the ground. Pearl Harbor counts as an invasion in my book. Don't forget the islands west of Alaska that count as American terratory. A large Military is neccecery as a deterant to potential aggressors. This goes for all countries. The best defense is a strong offence. I by no means agree with how many leaders use their militarys, but I fully support the folks who put on a uniform to protect their respective nations, and I fully agree with their exsistance.


OOH-RAH. :hatsoff:
 
actually, the united states have been invaded. during the war of 1812 our country was invaded by the Brits once more, but they were beaten back by our existing military with aid from pirates. look it up.

and to say the US doesnt need a tmilitary this big is a very wrong thing to say. with our political standing, since WWII actually, we have definately needed a large military. even though no one has tried to invade us recently, it is still a possibility, though a small one. and what would have happened if we didnt have a large orginized military during WWII? well to tell you the truth, we didnt have a big organized military, and we got our asses handed to us in the first major military confrontations of the war in Europe and Africa. sure, that was then and this is now, but why shouldnt we have a great, forceful military? we are the most powerful country on the face of the earth right now, why not flaunt it? though i dont like the fact people are dying in Iraq, i do think going there was a good thing for both sides
 
domshooter said:
and to say the US doesnt need a tmilitary this big is a very wrong thing to say. with our political standing, since WWII actually, we have definately needed a large military. even though no one has tried to invade us recently, it is still a possibility, though a small one. and what would have happened if we didnt have a large orginized military during WWII? well to tell you the truth, we didnt have a big organized military, and we got our asses handed to us in the first major military confrontations of the war in Europe and Africa. sure, that was then and this is now, but why shouldnt we have a great, forceful military? we are the most powerful country on the face of the earth right now, why not flaunt it? though i dont like the fact people are dying in Iraq, i do think going there was a good thing for both sides


Actually the military is going to be getting smaller and smaller over the next couple of years because of Iraq and Afghanistan. Its no post Gulf War anymore where a kid out of high school can join, serve four years and have money for college. With the wars, retention and recruiting are being seriously hurt. Sometime soon bills are being sent to congress to try and propose for the enlistment bonus for the Army to be increased to 40k for critical occupational skills and increasing the enlistment age. Also as it stands right now, if you are a Special Forces soldier you can get up to 100k to stay in. This creates a problem in pulling more people in, the standards continue to drop as does the quality of training, meaning more and more shit bigs putting on a uniform, and you guys may not see a problem with that but you aren't the ones knowing the guy watching your back is too weak to charge your crew served weapon or so out of shape he couldn't carry you if your life depended on it.

But the main point of this post and quoting domshooter above me is just to simply state it doesn't matter what role we play someone will always want it different and will bitch. If we pulled out of Iraq and Afghanistan tomorrow, half of the people would celebrate and the other half would cry out in protest. If went back to an isolationism nation, half of the people would cry we don't even need a large Army or an active duty Army and then people would cry out that we aren't helping stop such and such genocide in country X, or we aren't trying to stop such and such militant group from overthrowing their countries democratic goverment.

Do I know the answer on what should be done? Nope and probably never will. My goal right now in life is to do my job and as I grow in ranks, take care of the soldiers under me so that if we deploy they can come back alive.
 
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Death_blooms08 said:
Actually the military is going to be getting smaller and smaller over the next couple of years because of Iraq and Afghanistan. Its no post Gulf War anymore where a kid out of high school can join, serve four years and have money for college. With the wars, retention and recruiting are being seriously hurt. Sometime soon bills are being sent to congress to try and propose for the enlistment bonus for the Army to be increased to 40k for critical occupational skills and increasing the enlistment age. Also as it stands right now, if you are a Special Forces soldier you can get up to 100k to stay in. This creates a problem in pulling more people in, the standards continue to drop as does the quality of training, meaning more and more shit bigs putting on a uniform, and you guys may not see a problem with that but you aren't the ones knowing the guy watching your back is too weak to charge your crew served weapon or so out of shape he couldn't carry you if your life depended on it.

But the main point of this post and quoting domshooter above me is just to simply state it doesn't matter what role we play someone will always want it different and will bitch. If we pulled out of Iraq and Afghanistan tomorrow, half of the people would celebrate the other half would cry out in protest. If went back to an isolationism nation, then people would cry out that we aren't helping stop such and such genocide in country X, or we aren't trying to stop such and such militant group from overthrowing their countries democratic goverment.

Do I know the answer on what should be done? Nope and probably never will. My goal right now in life is to do my job and as I grow in ranks, take care of the soldiers under me so that if we deploy they can back alive.

well said DB, you may have actually changed some of my beliefs a little, NOT MUCH, but a little lol
 

Ax3C

Banned
Death_blooms08 said:
Sometime soon bills are being sent to congress to try and propose for the enlistment bonus for the Army to be increased to 40k for critical occupational skills and increasing the enlistment age. Also as it stands right now, if you are a Special Forces soldier you can get up to 100k to stay in. This creates a problem in pulling more people in, the standards continue to drop as does the quality of training, meaning more and more shit bigs putting on a uniform, and you guys may not see a problem with that but you aren't the ones knowing the guy watching your back is too weak to charge your crew served weapon or so out of shape he couldn't carry you if your life depended on it.


Aren't recruiters the grandest people? :D

As for what you're saying, Death, I agree ... up to a certain point. While the recruiters are simply trying to fill quotas and put as many bodies on that bus or plane to the recruit depot, it's up to the D.I.'s, Drill Sergeants, and even the platoon/squad/unit leaders to make them into Marines, soldiers, sailors, or flyboys.

If a D.I. / D.S. is churning out a platoon of grab-asstic fat-bodies then it's THAT respective D.I.'s ass (and career) that should be on the line. 'Course, too ... there's always platoon-time with said slacker. ;) However, the D.I.'s can't do that if they're handicapped by the Government; sub-standard equipment, loss of facilities, etc.

Don't get me wrong or misunderstand me now, that very last sentence up there that you wrote is, by far, the most important one in my opinion. Our armed services need able-bodied, mentally sound individuals ... and you can't get that if the recruiters are simply trying to make quotas. Lives are at risk any time you have sub-standard training and/or motivation.

Regardless, very well-written, sir. :hatsoff:
 
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Ok. In reply to all of your posts:

Asianchixxx: By the term "invasion", I actually mean what you called "the literal sence": Occupation, and the running amok thing. So, I think that my point of view is, at least, partially correct. However, I admit that my knowledge considering the War of 1820 is non existant. The other two events you describe, don't count as invasions in my book. And I say that not in order to say "hey, I am correct and you are not", neither to refuse to admit that my knowledge of history is not perfect, or to piss you off, but because on the other side of the Atlantic, that's how invasion is considered. This is how I perceive invasion. We had a lot over here. :)

I also disagree on the "potential aggressor" thing, and the course of action. I mean, to me it sounds to me like "shoot first, ask questions later". The war in Iraq was based on this "potential threat". Si Vis Pacem, Para Bellum and all that, but having an armory that can wipe out the entire planet is a little on the extreme side for me. And about that "why not flaunt it".... Flaunt weapons? the ones that kill people? Not acceptable in my book.
I can see that I disagree with many of you. I don't agree with your country's foreign politics, and believe there is a better way of doing things. And I am not the kind of person who says " Ah, America, she is big and powerful, let's hate her guts!". But I don't agree with the whole "we are the most powerful nation on Earth right now, so we can kick butt whenever we feel like it". Yes, you are the most powerful nation. But so was Rome and Byzantium, and where are they now? It is your civilization and your values that you are going to leave behind, not the power of your troops.

I truly thank you for giving me the chance to see the other point of view. But respect the fact that I don't share it, as I respect your point of view. And as Asianchixx has said, I agree that we disagree :)
 
AsianxxxChick said:
'Course, too ... there's always platoon-time with said slacker. ;) However, the D.I.'s can't do that if they're handicapped by the Government; sub-standard equipment, loss of facilities, etc.


I'm tired so I left out a little bit I meant to say. When I was saying the standards get dropped, I don't just mean in recruiting, I mean in training as well, because the Army is just trying to produce so many soldiers as fast as they can that the training unfortunately suffers as well. I wont blame the Drill Sergeants up to a point, because most of them try as hard as they can, but are unfortunately held back because of time restraints in training and because the Army has become so PC.

I actually wish I was in the old Army, the time or two I messed up in basic I wished I had the shit beaten out of me by my DS, and then the kid that messed up worse either wouldn't have after seeing me or would've just continuosly gotten his ass kicked. And its really sad that a DS can't even touch you anymore without fear of getting in trouble, because we are supposed to be getting trained for war and to stay alive in a combat zone, yet someone goes and runs and cries if they get looked at wrong. It would be a different Army if FM 22-102 was real (goggle it for a good laugh).

There is so much that needs to be changed right now in the Army, maybe one day it will be good again, maybe one day I could even be high up there trying to make it better, but until then, still gotta listen to those giving the orders.
 
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Ax3C

Banned
Fox ... whatever, okay?

You have your views and we have ours. Quit trying to shove it down everyone's throat. It's becoming quite annoying. You're usually not so insistent.

End of discussion on my end. :hatsoff:

Oh ... and since you want to be clever ... You Might want to do some much needed research into Japanese culture, German culture, Celtic culture, Scottish culture, French culture, Greek culture, Roman culture, and yes, even English culture,too. All of those cultures, at one time or another in their vast history, had HUGE fuckin' armies and were not only war-like societies, but also were quite patriotic.

Now ... please, before you actually piss me off with this nonsense ... let's end it here.
 
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