member5726
Banned
All i can say, is AMEN to that !!
The Terri Schiavo situation.
- Thread starter member5726
- Start date
member5726
Banned
Finally its over, Terri Schiavo has die this morning, now the circus is over !!
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tm...p/20050331/ap_on_re_us/brain_damaged_woman_86
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tm...p/20050331/ap_on_re_us/brain_damaged_woman_86
member2686
Banned
R.I.P. Terri Schiavo. :angels:
Sorry your life had to end in such a fiasco... The "compassionate conservatives" in the USA should be ashamed of themselves for making you starve and dehydrate to death... Fucking opportunistic political pricks!!!
My prayers to the family and friends, but I am glad Terri Schiavo (and anyone in her same situation) is at peace. Finally...after 15 years.
Sorry your life had to end in such a fiasco... The "compassionate conservatives" in the USA should be ashamed of themselves for making you starve and dehydrate to death... Fucking opportunistic political pricks!!!
My prayers to the family and friends, but I am glad Terri Schiavo (and anyone in her same situation) is at peace. Finally...after 15 years.
i know she is in a better place.. but the way she died is bull shit. even if she was not able to feel she was staving and dehydrated. we don't know what she was able to feel. i really think her "husband" i'll say it nice is a sumbag for not letting her parents in the room as she died. i also think he should not have been able to have any rights to her after he started dating and had to kids with his girlfriend of 7 years. i'm glad it is over and my prayers are with her family and friends. RIP TERRI
He's planning to have her body autopsied so I'm sure we'll hear pleanty more about that.
Nightfly said:
Yes indeed R.I.P., finally she is at peace.
But what did the "compassionate conservatives" in the USA do to make her starve and dehydrate to death and how did it help them politically? From what very little I know, it was Florida law, the structure of our justice system, and a "husband" who was at wit's end with the situation that caused her passing.
I even heard Bush say that in a situation like this that we should "err on the side of life", which I take to mean KEEP HER ALIVE. And every day since this started, Limbaugh has been barking away through the radio that congress, the courts, etc. should get more involved to prevent the husband from killing her.
Am I missing something?
member5726
Banned
Brino said:It's probably not sensitive to say this but did anybody see South Park last night!?
Anyways the point is this, Schiavo's Parent's were wrong for the right reasons and Schiavo's Husband was right for the wrong reasons.
RIP Terri Schiavo
Wow Brino, i think you hit it just right, its true for both sides, great post man ! :thumbsup:
member2686
Banned
Well, this is going to sound INCREDIBLY INSENSITIVE, but I think it's terribly fortunate that now the news channels and newspapers will refocus their efforts on issues like the tsunami that killed 300,000 people and left uncounted numbers of people as orphans or homeless. THAT'S a worldwide crisis. Earthquakes are crises. Suicide bombers and terrorists and train wrecks which kill hundreds or dozens -- those are big, worldwide news events. A brain-dead woman of 15 years (one of many) is not, and never should have captured all this attention.
One woman, who essentially died 15 years ago and who has been in a vegetative state ever since, should NEVER have been the focus of such media attention; it happens daily to hundreds (or thousands) of people in the USA alone. Why was she special? Why did Congress hold a special session for her? POLITICS. POLITICS. POLITICS. None of the politicians on EITHER side of the political fence gave two shits about this woman or even this issue until it became politically expedient for them to do so, but it was the "conservatives" who dragged this thing out and made this woman suffer (if she was even ABLE to suffer). I, for one, am very happy that it BLEW UP in the faces of the hypocritical "compassionate conservatives." It was and is horrible what they are trying to prove/do.
It's sad that Terri Schiavo physically died today. But she really died 15 years ago when her brain went dead, IMHO. Government needs to stay out of our bedrooms and birthrooms and deathrooms. But those are just MY :2 cents:
One woman, who essentially died 15 years ago and who has been in a vegetative state ever since, should NEVER have been the focus of such media attention; it happens daily to hundreds (or thousands) of people in the USA alone. Why was she special? Why did Congress hold a special session for her? POLITICS. POLITICS. POLITICS. None of the politicians on EITHER side of the political fence gave two shits about this woman or even this issue until it became politically expedient for them to do so, but it was the "conservatives" who dragged this thing out and made this woman suffer (if she was even ABLE to suffer). I, for one, am very happy that it BLEW UP in the faces of the hypocritical "compassionate conservatives." It was and is horrible what they are trying to prove/do.
It's sad that Terri Schiavo physically died today. But she really died 15 years ago when her brain went dead, IMHO. Government needs to stay out of our bedrooms and birthrooms and deathrooms. But those are just MY :2 cents:
Last edited:
Actually, they're focusing on the Pope and his urinary tract infection now....
I agree Nightfly that we should be focusing on something's that are bigger.
But my whole problem with this thing is for other people that depend on others for life.
I have a definite problem with one human being deciding if another human being should/wants to live or not.
Now I have seen no conclusive evidence that we know exactly what was going on in this woman's head before she died. Yes we heard about brain stem this and that. But do we know what she felt? I believe we did not. Now maybe she did want to die.
But what if one day someone has a husband in a deep coma. And some doctor decides that she is clinically braindead. Then that wife could pull the plug/tube and kill him. Legally. Now what if it came out later that she hated his guts. That he abused her horribly and she had many times wished him dead. And still later we find out that this doctor who gave the diagnosis and the wife ended up later getting married. Stranger things have happened - imo.
My point is; once you start saying that others have the right to decide whether another person should be killed or not for ANY reason. That maybe a slippery slope.
I am not religious. But I am 100% against killing someone for any reason. WHether it is that she is clinically braindead or capital punishment. THey are the same in that in both cases - the person could be alive for years longer, but someone else decided to end that person's life.
In terms of the politician's trying to profit from it. Yeah so? They almost always do. What's the big deal. But I hate to say it. But I think Bush did the right thing this time (for what reason's - I know not).
And on a VERY superficial matter. I saw some pictures today of Terri Schiavo before this happened to her years ago. She was a very nice looking woman. Very nice.
But my whole problem with this thing is for other people that depend on others for life.
I have a definite problem with one human being deciding if another human being should/wants to live or not.
Now I have seen no conclusive evidence that we know exactly what was going on in this woman's head before she died. Yes we heard about brain stem this and that. But do we know what she felt? I believe we did not. Now maybe she did want to die.
But what if one day someone has a husband in a deep coma. And some doctor decides that she is clinically braindead. Then that wife could pull the plug/tube and kill him. Legally. Now what if it came out later that she hated his guts. That he abused her horribly and she had many times wished him dead. And still later we find out that this doctor who gave the diagnosis and the wife ended up later getting married. Stranger things have happened - imo.
My point is; once you start saying that others have the right to decide whether another person should be killed or not for ANY reason. That maybe a slippery slope.
I am not religious. But I am 100% against killing someone for any reason. WHether it is that she is clinically braindead or capital punishment. THey are the same in that in both cases - the person could be alive for years longer, but someone else decided to end that person's life.
In terms of the politician's trying to profit from it. Yeah so? They almost always do. What's the big deal. But I hate to say it. But I think Bush did the right thing this time (for what reason's - I know not).
And on a VERY superficial matter. I saw some pictures today of Terri Schiavo before this happened to her years ago. She was a very nice looking woman. Very nice.
Just to inject a bit of personal history here...
In August 1996 when my Mom passed away, I made the decision (after talking over the situation and prognosis with my Dad and her doctors) to allow the M.D. Anderson Cancer Center/Hospital to disconnect her from life support. She had been in a vegetative coma for a little over two weeks with no hope of ever regaining consciousness... or life, really.
She had suffered (not very long, I might add) from melanoma, a very deadly form of skin cancer. Unfortunately, the chemotherapy regimen that her oncologist had prescribed for her did not work in time enough for her. But this is not what she truly died from. Instead, she died from massive systemic failure caused by severe infection from pneumonia. Because she was taking chemotherapy for the melanoma, her body's immune system was completely ravaged by the treatments. She had no antibodies or defenses in which to fight off the infections.
Long story short, she blew out a lung from all the stress of coughing and when that happened, the infection ran like wild fire through her body.
As a consequence, I never was able to speak to my mother again aside from that night I put her in the hospital.
...
Now... we jump ahead a little over four years later.
...
December 2000
My father - an obese man - suffered from congestive heart failure. Amazingly enough, for a man of his girth and size, he had never been sick a day in his life nor were any of his stats out of the ordinary. No high blood pressure, no signs of diabetes... nothing. Aside from being a lard-butt, he was the picture of health.
He was diagnosed on Thanksgiving night, 1999. One short year earlier...
See...
I truly, truly believe that my father grieved himself to death. He WILLED himself to die... just to be with my Mom again. And so... God listened to his request.
I say all that to say this:
I disconnected not one, but TWO parents from life support. This was THEIR wish. And it was also their wish to be cremated as well.
Signing a DNR (Do NOT Rescusitate) order is the most difficult task anyone human can endure... ESPECIALLY if it's a loved one. God, it is hard. Lord knows I've spent every single day for the past nine years searching my soul for the answers to why I had to watch my parents die in such a fashion.
I hope and pray that each one of you NEVER have to face such a decision as this... especially if it's your parents. Give them dignity and peace when they die... follow their wishes.
I guess my point - after rambling incoherently for about a page - is this:
My father's family - all of my aunts, uncles, and cousins - turned their collective backs on me because I chose to follow my father's dying request...
That I allow him to die peacefully with NO heroic measures. He asked me - the night I took him to the Emergency Room - with tears in his eyes that I release him gently and lovingly. See... he KNEW he was dying. And he had the courage to face it... and to accept it head on.
He was more worried about ME than himself.
I guess the main thrust of this post is that - although I haven't followed this case at all - dying with dignity is something we should give all of our loved ones.
Politics and internal family squabbles have no place in decisions such as this... it is EXTREMELY personal and should rest that individual and the one in whom THEY have placed this enormous trust, love, and compassion... not every Joe Schmoe off of the fucking street.
It wasn't easy for me to do what I did. It's given me nightmares for many years. BUT... it was the greatest act of love I could have given to either one of my parents. And I rest easy in that knowledge.
So... say what you will. Slam me, curse me, villify me.... do whatever.
Know this, though, you NEVER walked in MY shoes. Nor did you experience what I experienced: the tears, the heartache, the ultimate sense of loss, all of it.
As I mentioned at first, this was purely a personal thought and revelation on my part sparked my this raging debate about a woman who died physically a long time ago. I apologize for the length, but... it was cathartic for me.
I think she should be allowed to die with the utmost of love, dignity, and compassion. Please show her some respect.
:hatsoff:
In August 1996 when my Mom passed away, I made the decision (after talking over the situation and prognosis with my Dad and her doctors) to allow the M.D. Anderson Cancer Center/Hospital to disconnect her from life support. She had been in a vegetative coma for a little over two weeks with no hope of ever regaining consciousness... or life, really.
She had suffered (not very long, I might add) from melanoma, a very deadly form of skin cancer. Unfortunately, the chemotherapy regimen that her oncologist had prescribed for her did not work in time enough for her. But this is not what she truly died from. Instead, she died from massive systemic failure caused by severe infection from pneumonia. Because she was taking chemotherapy for the melanoma, her body's immune system was completely ravaged by the treatments. She had no antibodies or defenses in which to fight off the infections.
Long story short, she blew out a lung from all the stress of coughing and when that happened, the infection ran like wild fire through her body.
As a consequence, I never was able to speak to my mother again aside from that night I put her in the hospital.
...
Now... we jump ahead a little over four years later.
...
December 2000
My father - an obese man - suffered from congestive heart failure. Amazingly enough, for a man of his girth and size, he had never been sick a day in his life nor were any of his stats out of the ordinary. No high blood pressure, no signs of diabetes... nothing. Aside from being a lard-butt, he was the picture of health.
He was diagnosed on Thanksgiving night, 1999. One short year earlier...
See...
I truly, truly believe that my father grieved himself to death. He WILLED himself to die... just to be with my Mom again. And so... God listened to his request.
I say all that to say this:
I disconnected not one, but TWO parents from life support. This was THEIR wish. And it was also their wish to be cremated as well.
Signing a DNR (Do NOT Rescusitate) order is the most difficult task anyone human can endure... ESPECIALLY if it's a loved one. God, it is hard. Lord knows I've spent every single day for the past nine years searching my soul for the answers to why I had to watch my parents die in such a fashion.
I hope and pray that each one of you NEVER have to face such a decision as this... especially if it's your parents. Give them dignity and peace when they die... follow their wishes.
I guess my point - after rambling incoherently for about a page - is this:
My father's family - all of my aunts, uncles, and cousins - turned their collective backs on me because I chose to follow my father's dying request...
That I allow him to die peacefully with NO heroic measures. He asked me - the night I took him to the Emergency Room - with tears in his eyes that I release him gently and lovingly. See... he KNEW he was dying. And he had the courage to face it... and to accept it head on.
He was more worried about ME than himself.
I guess the main thrust of this post is that - although I haven't followed this case at all - dying with dignity is something we should give all of our loved ones.
Politics and internal family squabbles have no place in decisions such as this... it is EXTREMELY personal and should rest that individual and the one in whom THEY have placed this enormous trust, love, and compassion... not every Joe Schmoe off of the fucking street.
It wasn't easy for me to do what I did. It's given me nightmares for many years. BUT... it was the greatest act of love I could have given to either one of my parents. And I rest easy in that knowledge.
So... say what you will. Slam me, curse me, villify me.... do whatever.
Know this, though, you NEVER walked in MY shoes. Nor did you experience what I experienced: the tears, the heartache, the ultimate sense of loss, all of it.
As I mentioned at first, this was purely a personal thought and revelation on my part sparked my this raging debate about a woman who died physically a long time ago. I apologize for the length, but... it was cathartic for me.
I think she should be allowed to die with the utmost of love, dignity, and compassion. Please show her some respect.
:hatsoff:
My condolences QBall. My Mum also died of malignant melanoma. I watched a healthy, younger looking woman of 53; turn into a walking skeleton that looked about 150 years old. At least your mother was spared the agony of a slow, painful death.
If everything you said is true; then I am SO sorry for your family turning their back on you. BEcause of my drug use and I guess because I reminded her of her ex (who was also an addict), my sister turned her back on me and it was very painful. But a whole family. THat is terrible. But I am a better man for all of the above. As I bet are you. It is corny. but true. WHat does not kill you, DOES make you stronger (at least emotionally).
Why do these things have to happen to us Pisces? We are sensitive. We are compassionate. We spent too much time dreaming. But we're sweet people (usually - and I do mean usually).
Hang in there fellow fish.
Great and deep post. I applaude you for typing it.
If everything you said is true; then I am SO sorry for your family turning their back on you. BEcause of my drug use and I guess because I reminded her of her ex (who was also an addict), my sister turned her back on me and it was very painful. But a whole family. THat is terrible. But I am a better man for all of the above. As I bet are you. It is corny. but true. WHat does not kill you, DOES make you stronger (at least emotionally).
Why do these things have to happen to us Pisces? We are sensitive. We are compassionate. We spent too much time dreaming. But we're sweet people (usually - and I do mean usually).
Hang in there fellow fish.
Great and deep post. I applaude you for typing it.
member2686
Banned
And people make fun of some of us for being prolix and too serious on this board. This is like therapy, at times, and certainly cathartic. We learn about ourselves and each other through these types of threads...
Q, your post has me presently crying. What a moving, emotional post. Watching a parent slowly die is HELL. I watched my mother undergo radiation and chemotherapy for 6 months. She was diagnosed with inoperable lung cancer (her tumor was the size of a grapefruit, on one lung, and it was right next to her spinal cord) and would have died within a week had she not undergone the radiation and chemo.
She bought time with her therapy, but it killed her as well. Radiation and chemotherapy absolutely RAVAGE the body. My mother wanted to spend some more time with my dad and us kids, so she underwent that hell. I don't know if I could do the same.
In the end, the tumor ruptured and my mother literally drowned in her own blood. I am horrified by it to this day and will be for the rest of my life. Getting a call from one's father in the middle of the night, then rushing over to their house to see your mother dead with blood seeping out of her mouth, hairless from the chemo, is an absolute nightmare. Dad even spent 30 minutes cleaning her up before we all got there... I cannot even imagine what it must have been like before we got there... My heart goes out to him. If I were to have that happen to my wife of 41 years, I don't think I could handle living afterwards...
Anyway, Q -- my heart goes out to you.
Making personal, familial, spousal medical choices is and should always be up to US -- not the government. I am ASHAMED of what the U.S. Congress tried to do in the Schiavo case. I am sorry for Terri Schiavo's family's loss, but I think she is in a far better place NOW than where she was for the last 15 years...
Either way, it's sad. No one wants to see a loved one die. But at least now she can rest and be at peace.
I feel the same way about my mother. She fought like mad to have more time with us, her family, but when she did die it was a relief for her. No more sickness and pain. Just peace and eternal rest. She was a wonderful person and a perfect mother. I miss her still and always will. But I am glad she is an angel now... She's MY angel. :angels: She's my mom. :lovecoupl
Wherever you are mom, I love you, and THANK YOU.
This is like therapy, at times, and certainly cathartic. We learn about ourselves and each other through these types of threads...Q, your post has me presently crying. What a moving, emotional post. Watching a parent slowly die is HELL. I watched my mother undergo radiation and chemotherapy for 6 months. She was diagnosed with inoperable lung cancer (her tumor was the size of a grapefruit, on one lung, and it was right next to her spinal cord) and would have died within a week had she not undergone the radiation and chemo.
She bought time with her therapy, but it killed her as well. Radiation and chemotherapy absolutely RAVAGE the body. My mother wanted to spend some more time with my dad and us kids, so she underwent that hell. I don't know if I could do the same.
In the end, the tumor ruptured and my mother literally drowned in her own blood. I am horrified by it to this day and will be for the rest of my life. Getting a call from one's father in the middle of the night, then rushing over to their house to see your mother dead with blood seeping out of her mouth, hairless from the chemo, is an absolute nightmare. Dad even spent 30 minutes cleaning her up before we all got there... I cannot even imagine what it must have been like before we got there... My heart goes out to him. If I were to have that happen to my wife of 41 years, I don't think I could handle living afterwards...
Anyway, Q -- my heart goes out to you.
Either way, it's sad. No one wants to see a loved one die. But at least now she can rest and be at peace.
I feel the same way about my mother. She fought like mad to have more time with us, her family, but when she did die it was a relief for her. No more sickness and pain. Just peace and eternal rest. She was a wonderful person and a perfect mother. I miss her still and always will. But I am glad she is an angel now... She's MY angel. :angels: She's my mom. :lovecoupl
Wherever you are mom, I love you, and THANK YOU.
Last edited:
Great post Nightfly. But when I read it I was not thinking poor guy. I was thinking how fortunate you were to have the 'perfect' Mom. And parent's that stayed together for 41 years - apparently very happy. Very happy? What the fuck is that? I have 6 divorces in my immediate family alone. Most of us never get that chance to have your level of family bliss. So I envy you.
member2686
Banned
Oh trust me, mcrocket, Mom had her moments...lol
But as an adult I appreciate her much more than I ever did as a kid. That's partly why her death is so upsetting to me. I never really got to truly appreciate her with a firm concept of life and responsibility until around the time she died. I suppose her death helped me to grow up in many ways. I am certainly young at heart still, but going through a trauma/drama of the death of a parent certainly opens up a young person's eyes.
Sorry about the divorces etc. in your family history. Maybe you will learn from them and not make the same types of spousal choices. lol Divorce is an ugly, damaging thing. It's what, something like 50% of all marriages? Damn. Either we're getting more tolerant of divorce or really stupid with our spousal choices! LOL!
Peace, and cheers! :hatsoff:
But as an adult I appreciate her much more than I ever did as a kid. That's partly why her death is so upsetting to me. I never really got to truly appreciate her with a firm concept of life and responsibility until around the time she died. I suppose her death helped me to grow up in many ways. I am certainly young at heart still, but going through a trauma/drama of the death of a parent certainly opens up a young person's eyes.
Sorry about the divorces etc. in your family history. Maybe you will learn from them and not make the same types of spousal choices. lol Divorce is an ugly, damaging thing. It's what, something like 50% of all marriages? Damn. Either we're getting more tolerant of divorce or really stupid with our spousal choices! LOL!
Peace, and cheers! :hatsoff:
member5726
Banned
Well this debate is also touching me on a personnal level... Just last year my mon got diagnosed with Lou Gehrig disease, she maybe got a couple of years to live. In the end she will need machines to keep her alive. She already told me, my brother and my sister that she doesn't want to suffer, she don't want to see us suffer when we will watch her, so I will have the same tough thing to do as Q, i will have to unplugged my mom. Q i really feel for you because i know that i will be going through the same thing as you in a few years...
member2686
Banned
We'll be here for you, BigDan...
