Sergeant in trouble for Playboy spread

[Iamforever]

No, it doesn't. A country is abstract, the values it represents is those of the people living in it. You can change the country, remove it, do anything you want to it, the values will remain the same if the people living there are still there. Patriotism is based on the assumption that a country in itself has values. While it's quite similar to a religion, there's no superior being that dictate what is right and wrong, just an entity that is composed of people's beliefs. Believing in something made by your own belief is incredibly silly, not to mention redundant. If you need a piece of land to remind you of what you believe in, then I would argue that you may not be as convinced about what's right as you think you are.

Like I said, I don't care where I live. As long as I'm happy (and in general, other people around me), it doesn't matter and I see no reason why it should.

i wasnt talking about values. i was talking freedom and rights. everybody has different values. not everybody has the same rights. it depends on what country you live in as to what rights and freedom you actually have. people like you and fox will use this country and its rights, but you wont fight for them?!


and before you get the idea of why i am not a military person, i would have and i should have joined the air force years ago. but the damn recruiter said i wasnt "eligible" it doesnt take an ankle to use the weapons in my opinion.



iaf©

 

[dangerousD]

i wasnt talking about values. i was talking freedom and rights. everybody has different values. not everybody has the same rights. it depends on what country you live in as to what rights and freedom you actually have. people like you and fox will use this country and its rights, but you wont fight for them?!

well said

 

[Roughneck]

By the way: Here's stuff that'll help the discussion. You know... "facts" ...

Quoting from --- Part j. Section 1-10: When the wear of the Army uniform is required or prohibited, of AR 670-1: Wear and Appearance of Army Uniforms and Insignia.

j. Wearing Army uniforms is prohibited in the following situations:

(1) In connection with the furtherance of any political or commercial interests, or when engaged in off-duty civilian employment.

(2) When participating in public speeches, interviews, picket lines, marches, rallies, or public demonstrations, except as authorized by competent authority.

(3) When attending any meeting or event that is a function of, or is sponsored by, an extremist organization.

(4) When wearing the uniform would bring discredit upon the Army.

(5) When specifically prohibited by Army regulations.

All this is part of the FIRST chapter of Army dress regulation. Even Retarded Over Trained Children () know these regulations!

are you serious?

Very serious.

Quoting from --- Section 1-10: When the wear of the Army uniform is required or prohibited, of AR 670-1: Wear and Appearance of Army Uniforms and Insignia.

k. Soldiers will wear headgear with the Army uniform, except under the following circumstances:

(1) Headgear is not required if it would interfere with the safe operation of military vehicles. The wear of military headgear is not required while in or on a privately owned vehicle (to include a motorcycle, bicycle, or convertible automobile), a commercial vehicle, or on public conveyance (such as a subway, train, plane, or bus).

(2) Soldiers will not wear headgear indoors unless under arms in an official capacity, or when directed by the commander, such as for indoor ceremonial activities.

(3) Male and female soldiers are not required to wear headgear to evening social events (after Retreat) when wearing the Army blue and white uniforms, the enlisted green dress uniform, the Army green maternity dress uniform (females only), or the mess and evening mess uniforms.

(4) Soldiers will carry their headgear, when it is not worn, in their hands while wearing service, dress, and mess uniforms. Soldiers are authorized storage of the headgear, when it is not worn, in the BDU cargo pockets. Soldiers must fold the headgear neatly so as not to present a bulky appearance. Soldiers will not attach headgear to the uniform or hang it from the belt.

what kind of punishment would one get for this? i hope not a court martial.

No, not a general courts-martial. Punishment is at the discretion of the commander/Commanding Officer.

maybe it shouldnt be a crime, but its one of the biggest insults to a nation.

I agree it's an insult - hence why I used the "******" example.

cheers,

 

[Legzman]

^^^ Here we go folks!
Sit down, Shut up, and hold on!!!

 

[Dean Wormer]

This thread has become so fucking stupid I am not going to participate any more than this one post.

 

[calpoon]

Many things - false representation of armed service personnel is a crime.

Ok. here's a list of criminals that I found. it took me five seconds to find, im sure there are a many more. http://www.**************/moviest/army1.shtml
please feel free to go to the website and send all these folks to gitmo.

and also the girl we are talking about really IS armed service personel, so what the hell does that have to do with anything?

If you are indeed armed service personnel - then wearing the uniform has rules and etiquette attached to it. For example - did you know that you can be penalized for not wearing your hat outdoors while in full uniform?

Of course, if you'd spent time in the Army, I wouldn't have to explain such mundane things to you. But what do I know? After all, I'm just a "brainwashed robot stripped of all self identity" ...

Have you ever posed for Playboy?

And giving an examle of how the military dictates a persons life to the most minsicule unnecesary degree isn't going very far to convince me that you're not.

Rest assured, if a dude did it for a mag, it'd be the same thing. This isn't "sexism" - it's about conduct code.

guys do do it all the time. they don't pose for magazines, but they have sex while they are in the service. what's the difference? if it's a matter of conduct and beavhior that is representing the army.

Those same "many people" would hold this opinion no matter what - this has nothing to do with this issue (or any issue) at hand - it's just their own personal prejudice.

people have every right to say why they disagree with the army's policy, being that this topic is about the contraversy of that policy, as you do to paste a long list of rules and regulations.

As for flag burning? It isn't and should never be a crime.
But as I've repeatedly pointed out - rights come with responsibilities.
You have every right to say "******" - but don't be surprised at the reaction of yelling out "******" to everyone down in Harlem.

It's the same thing.

well I'm guessing that you probably aren't used to being called one, or else you might not feel that way.

 

[georges]

It's just a flag. I don't get it. That level of symbol worship scares me. It's just some cloth. Three English soccer fans burned a Turkish flag in a town square in Istanbul before a game and were subsequently attacked by a kebab knife wielding chef, one mortally wounded. I don't get it. They were being disrespectful and hooliganish and prickish and should have been arrested perhaps. But killed over burning a flag? Strange.

burning a flag isn't something one should be proud off. When you like your country you don't spit when its flag is burned unless you have no pride of the country where you live in.

 

[Imagine]

i wasnt talking about values. i was talking freedom and rights. everybody has different values. not everybody has the same rights. it depends on what country you live in as to what rights and freedom you actually have. people like you and fox will use this country and its rights, but you wont fight for them?!

Again, a country doesn't grant any rights, because a country is an abstract entity. People do, based on their values. Who they are or where they live is completely irrelevant as far as I'm concerned, and I'm not going to get myself killed over semantics. A country is supposed to represent my values, I'm not supposed to represent my country's values. I don't owe a country anything, because I am part of the country. It exists to serve me, not the other way around. Hell, if someone invades and promises to give more and/or better rights, I'm not going to lift a finger, except possibly to help them.

 

[Iamforever]

Again, a country doesn't grant any rights, because a country is an abstract entity. People do, based on their values. Who they are or where they live is completely irrelevant as far as I'm concerned, and I'm not going to get myself killed over semantics. A country is supposed to represent my values, I'm not supposed to represent my country's values. I don't owe a country anything, because I am part of the country. It exists to serve me, not the other way around. Hell, if someone invades and promises to give more and/or better rights, I'm not going to lift a finger, except possibly to help them.

a country doesnt grant rights?!:eek:


tell that to the people in countries who dont even have the right to oppose their leader. tell that to the people in countries who dont even have the right to live their life the way they want to. i live in a country that grants those rights and many more. and to say that the country you live in exists to serve you is as wrong as wrong can be.

 

[Iamforever]

I don't believe that fighting for the US army - or most armies - has anything to do with rights and freedom. I think, and I believe the majority of people on this planet agree, that the US army is used not to protect rights or liberty, but for economic and strategic gains, in offensive ways, under the highly dubious bullshit guise of "national security" or "fighting for freedom". Remember those terrorists you all demonize so, also call themselves freedom fighters.

okay fox. lets talk hypothetically. lets say, that the (i will use usa as it will be easier for me) american military was wiped out. we are suddenly invaded by a nation whose government wants to turn us into slaves. no more rights. no right to breed, no right to have fun, and fox no right to cut your albums. the military is here to protect our liberties. but you dont see that.

 

[Big P13]

and before you get the idea of why i am not a military person, i would have and i should have joined the air force years ago. but the damn recruiter said i wasnt "eligible" it doesnt take an ankle to use the weapons in my opinion.



iaf©

Yeah, I'm sure it's your ankle that's the only thing that made you ineligible for service, and not all the dope you've admitted to sucking down, or that little mental condition you have that you've admitted to that makes you cut yourself.

Quit acting like Captain America! If you love your country so much, there are other ways to serve it than military service. Get out and volunteer. Get behind political issues and candidates you believe will make the country a better place. Just imagine how much of this you could have been doing while you were getting high. Then you could be posting in this thread about how much you've done for this country instead of how much you would do for it.

It's obvious that you're arguing just to argue because your arguments are getting more and more stupid.

I honestly don't know you, so I can't say for sure that you're full of shit. I can only assume that you are. :lame:

 

[Iamforever]

Yeah, I'm sure it's your ankle that's the only thing that made you ineligible for service, and not all the dope you've admitted to sucking down, or that little mental condition you have that you've admitted to that makes you cut yourself.

this would make sense. only i never took the drug test. and they damn sure didnt know about the cutting. it was the recruiter himself that told me why i couldnt join. so go argue with him on this subject.

Quit acting like Captain America! If you love your country so much, there are other ways to serve it than military service. Get out and volunteer. Get behind political issues and candidates you believe will make the country a better place. Just imagine how much of this you could have been doing while you were getting high. Then you could be posting in this thread about how much you've done for this country instead of how much you would do for it.

youre absolutely right.

It's obvious that you're arguing just to argue because your arguments are getting more and more stupid.

I honestly don't know you, so I can't say for sure that you're full of shit. I can only assume that you are. :lame:

thats right little man, you dont know me. you dont know where i have been. i have had my freedom and rights taken away from me. it bothers me when there are people that expect these freedoms to be handed to them. only because they dont know what its like to have them taken away. maybe my visions are stupid and lame. thats okay with me. i have that right.

 

[Big P13]

thats right little man, you dont know me.

Thanks for that line, that had me rolling you internet tough guy you!

you dont know me. you dont know where i have been.

I don't care where you've been, and as you're no one that's done anything for me, I don't care who you are, the way you don't care who I am, or where I've been.

and to say that the country you live in exists to serve you is as wrong as wrong can be.

It's statements like this that show that you aren't thinking before you make your argument. Does the phrase "A government of the people, for the people, and by the people mean nothing to you?

 

[Big P13]

This thread has become so fucking stupid I am not going to participate any more than this one post.

You're absolutely right, and I can't believe I allowed myself to be drawn into it beyond my first post.

 

[Iamforever]

It's statements like this that show that you aren't thinking before you make your argument. Does the phrase "A government of the people, for the people, and by the people mean nothing to you?

by the people is the key phrase for me.

 

[Big P13]

Chill boys.

Oh, I'm completely chilled.

Anyone reading animousity into either of my posts is reading them wrong. The only anger I have, is, as I said, at myself for allowing myself to be pulled into the conversation on this thread beyond my initial statement that I'm curious to see the sarge nekkid.:thumbsup:

Because, as Ron White put it, once you've seen one woman naked...you pretty much want to see the rest of 'em naked.

 

[Roughneck]

Yeah, I'm sure it's your ankle that's the only thing that made you ineligible for service, and not all the dope you've admitted to sucking down, or that little mental condition you have that you've admitted to that makes you cut yourself.

Wow! How professional of yourself!

Quit acting like Captain America! If you love your country so much, there are other ways to serve it than military service. Get out and volunteer. Get behind political issues and candidates you believe will make the country a better place. Just imagine how much of this you could have been doing while you were getting high. Then you could be posting in this thread about how much you've done for this country instead of how much you would do for it.

Like obviously you KNOW what he has or has not done for this country. You are the uber-patriot of the USA!

It's obvious that you're arguing just to argue because your arguments are getting more and more stupid.

Yes! Obviously since your arguements make more sense! HA!

I can't say for sure that you're full of shit. I can only assume that you are. :lame:

Pot. Kettle. Black.

You know the rest of it....


cheers,


PS: It don't mean I agree every inch of what iaf has posted - but I felt a need to respond to his 'commentators'.

 

[Big P13]

by the people is the key phrase for me.

Then you still aren't thinking your arguments through because it's people that is the key phrase.

Maybe you should take your own advice that you gave to fox. You're just not going to get this, so stop trying.

 

[Iamforever]

Then you still aren't thinking your arguments through because it's people that is the key phrase.

no. people is the key word. not phrase. you highlighted for the people. i think by the people is far more important.

 

[Big P13]

Like obviously you KNOW what he has or has not done for this country. You are the uber-patriot of the USA!

.

Like you obviously know what I've done? But then again, I wasn't talking the big talk was I? Yes, pot, kettle, black indeed.:thumbsup: