member2686
Banned
Check this out...
http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/04/06/immigration.ap/index.html
Thoughts?
http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/04/06/immigration.ap/index.html
Thoughts?
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Rewarding Illegal Immigration?
- Thread starter member2686
- Start date
There are two big lies being bandied about with the immigration debate our country is currently embroiled in. First, that illegal immigrants do jobs that Americans can't or won't do. False, these are jobs that Americans will not do for minimum wages and no healthcare benefits. Second, that it is the fault of the immigrants for being here. False, it is the fault of the employers for illegally hiring these immigrants.
I have never bought the whole Americas can't and won't do those jobs argument either. Perhaps there is a very good reason Americans won't do these jobs,...they don't feel like getting exploited. If they wanted to give me 17 dollars/hour with great benefits and they planted some crops nearby I would be more than willing go and pick fruit and vegetables all day long, and I know a lot of people that wouldn't mind either. There would be a ton of Americans that would do it for even less then that. It is sad we use people that are near desperation or have lived a life where they don't know any better to fuel some corporation's need for cheap labor. It's bad enough we are getting to the point where we outsource almost everything already, but now they want to bring people here to do the work for them also. It seems in a true capitalistic system, that some people love so much, that they would have to raise the working conditions to make people actually want to work those jobs. Maybe they just want it both ways.
Second it is rewarding illegal immigrants. If they get something that they wouldn't have already gotten and didn't deserve then they have gotten rewarded. We don't owe them anything. We aren’t obligated to give any alien citizenship we don't want to. Like I said in another thread as far as I am concerned the people in this country come first as far as taking car of people. I have an obligation to my countryman that I don’t to other people. It is pretty bad when politicians cave into a minority of the people to get a perhaps future perceived swing vote over what is best for this country.
Another thing, America was a country that grew to what it is today because of immigrants. However, this isn’t America circa 1870’s or 1880’s or even the early 1900’s, it the USA of 2006. You can’t even compare the past times and now. They are like apples and oranges. For one thing the population is much greater than in the past. There are fewer resources to go around per person, and quite frankly less space than there was before. Even where I live, that is in a rural region there are people and homes and trailers all over the place. There are more people every year. Back then they also didn’t have the same things we have to worry about now, like: schooling and education, healthcare, social security, medicade, welfare, globalization, and other government programs and institutions that have to take care of them. If some of those things existed at all, like education, they were nothing like it is now. Now illegals are a drain on the system. Ever time we have to provide health care to one of them that cost us. Every time we have to put one of their kids through school it cost us. Every time we have to feed them that cost us.
Even back then I will admit there were unskilled workers that came in and lowered the working standards, but not like today, and the distance the impoverished and the people that could get by, or the middle class wasn’t as great as today. There were people that tried to exploit others even then. That was one of the factors that led to the increases of the slums that were in places like New York and Chicago. However there were many people that came over that had valuable skills and added more to this country than just a source of cheap labor. When my great grandparents came over in that time not only did they save enough money where nobody had to help take care of them, but also they all had valuable traits and skills that could be beneficial to this country. They all got jobs to support themselves that didn’t hurt other people by taking theirs away. Or if they did it was because they did it better at the same wage, not a lower one. They also decided that they (gasp) should learn English fluently before they came over, because that was the right thing to do when you went into somebody else’s country. Then after they were here they kept some of there own customs, but they weren’t foreigners trying to take advantage of what this country could give them. They were Americans with a heritage from somewhere else but they were defiantly Americans. They incorporated all the ideals our country stood for and would have rather died then turned on it, even if the other countries were the ones they came from. That I feel is indicative of a lot of people that came over at that time.
A lot of people wouldn’t like my solution to it. It would make the Republican one look mild to say the least. If I had the power to do what I wanted I would:
Create a constitutional amendment to change the rules on citizenship. Instead of everybody that is born inside of our borders becoming an automatic citizen, I would make anybody born here have to have a parent that has been a citizen of this country for at least 5 years. If for some reason someday doesn’t have a parent that has been a citizen for 5 years but has been a citizen of a shorter time they will get all the benefits and get full citizenship retroactively when the 5 year time limit is up. In the event of somebody death then whoever adopts the child will be considered the parent and the child will get full citizenship when the former parents 5-year anniversary would have occurred. If for some strange reason the parents lose their citizenship then so does the child. This would help reduce the number of anchor babies that people have to get their children into this country and themselves after that.
I would make being an illegal alien a felony punishable by jail time with mandatory hard labor. Just putting them in jail and then sending them back wouldn’t be enough deterrent to keep them from coming and would cost the system that much more. After their sentence is up they will be sent back.
I would provide no aid to them what so ever. Their children would not go to school. They would not get any welfare benefits. They would get no medical benefits. If that conflicted with some doctor’s code of conduct or oath then they could treat them entirely at their own personal cost, or the cost some other organization that is willing to pay. Any thing that the government gives even one cent to subsidize, loan to, grant, or any money to at all would not be allowed to treat them.
I would severely punish corporations and organizations that knowingly hired illegal aliens, including jail time for the leaders of the business. I would also make it where businesses have to do a reasonable amount of background checking to make sure somebody is in this country legally.
I would make English the official language of the USA. I would also require the ability to speak English well enough so that the vast majority of Americans could understand the person as a requirement to be granted citizenship.
I would probably heavily restrict the amount of people given legal citizenship every year. Perhaps reducing it to next to nothing. I would also cut way down on the number of green cards given out each year. Out of the people that wanted to apply for legal citizenship I would take the best and the brightest, and the ones that could come in and have an immediate ability to take care of themselves or close to it. If at some future time the country ended up loosing total population, or went though changes that allowed it to have an influx of new people coming in without hurting the Americans who are here or hurting the system then of course the number of people that would be allowed in per year would be increased to reflect that change.
If all else fails
I would put a fence up along the border. Then in every area I could, I would put up another fence about a half mile back to create a sort of natural zone. . I would have a few places traffic would be allowed to cross the border, but other than that it would be closed off. I would bring soldiers that are not needed from other parts of the world like South Korea, Europe, and the Middle East to man it. Only authorized people would be allowed in there to patrol it. Then on the inner fence where it is closest to us I would put up gun emplacements at regular intervals wherever possible. Within the zone, with the exception of people authorized to be in it, I would have orders to shoot anybody that is inside of it. They would stop coming over land after that.
Second it is rewarding illegal immigrants. If they get something that they wouldn't have already gotten and didn't deserve then they have gotten rewarded. We don't owe them anything. We aren’t obligated to give any alien citizenship we don't want to. Like I said in another thread as far as I am concerned the people in this country come first as far as taking car of people. I have an obligation to my countryman that I don’t to other people. It is pretty bad when politicians cave into a minority of the people to get a perhaps future perceived swing vote over what is best for this country.
Another thing, America was a country that grew to what it is today because of immigrants. However, this isn’t America circa 1870’s or 1880’s or even the early 1900’s, it the USA of 2006. You can’t even compare the past times and now. They are like apples and oranges. For one thing the population is much greater than in the past. There are fewer resources to go around per person, and quite frankly less space than there was before. Even where I live, that is in a rural region there are people and homes and trailers all over the place. There are more people every year. Back then they also didn’t have the same things we have to worry about now, like: schooling and education, healthcare, social security, medicade, welfare, globalization, and other government programs and institutions that have to take care of them. If some of those things existed at all, like education, they were nothing like it is now. Now illegals are a drain on the system. Ever time we have to provide health care to one of them that cost us. Every time we have to put one of their kids through school it cost us. Every time we have to feed them that cost us.
Even back then I will admit there were unskilled workers that came in and lowered the working standards, but not like today, and the distance the impoverished and the people that could get by, or the middle class wasn’t as great as today. There were people that tried to exploit others even then. That was one of the factors that led to the increases of the slums that were in places like New York and Chicago. However there were many people that came over that had valuable skills and added more to this country than just a source of cheap labor. When my great grandparents came over in that time not only did they save enough money where nobody had to help take care of them, but also they all had valuable traits and skills that could be beneficial to this country. They all got jobs to support themselves that didn’t hurt other people by taking theirs away. Or if they did it was because they did it better at the same wage, not a lower one. They also decided that they (gasp) should learn English fluently before they came over, because that was the right thing to do when you went into somebody else’s country. Then after they were here they kept some of there own customs, but they weren’t foreigners trying to take advantage of what this country could give them. They were Americans with a heritage from somewhere else but they were defiantly Americans. They incorporated all the ideals our country stood for and would have rather died then turned on it, even if the other countries were the ones they came from. That I feel is indicative of a lot of people that came over at that time.
A lot of people wouldn’t like my solution to it. It would make the Republican one look mild to say the least. If I had the power to do what I wanted I would:
Create a constitutional amendment to change the rules on citizenship. Instead of everybody that is born inside of our borders becoming an automatic citizen, I would make anybody born here have to have a parent that has been a citizen of this country for at least 5 years. If for some reason someday doesn’t have a parent that has been a citizen for 5 years but has been a citizen of a shorter time they will get all the benefits and get full citizenship retroactively when the 5 year time limit is up. In the event of somebody death then whoever adopts the child will be considered the parent and the child will get full citizenship when the former parents 5-year anniversary would have occurred. If for some strange reason the parents lose their citizenship then so does the child. This would help reduce the number of anchor babies that people have to get their children into this country and themselves after that.
I would make being an illegal alien a felony punishable by jail time with mandatory hard labor. Just putting them in jail and then sending them back wouldn’t be enough deterrent to keep them from coming and would cost the system that much more. After their sentence is up they will be sent back.
I would provide no aid to them what so ever. Their children would not go to school. They would not get any welfare benefits. They would get no medical benefits. If that conflicted with some doctor’s code of conduct or oath then they could treat them entirely at their own personal cost, or the cost some other organization that is willing to pay. Any thing that the government gives even one cent to subsidize, loan to, grant, or any money to at all would not be allowed to treat them.
I would severely punish corporations and organizations that knowingly hired illegal aliens, including jail time for the leaders of the business. I would also make it where businesses have to do a reasonable amount of background checking to make sure somebody is in this country legally.
I would make English the official language of the USA. I would also require the ability to speak English well enough so that the vast majority of Americans could understand the person as a requirement to be granted citizenship.
I would probably heavily restrict the amount of people given legal citizenship every year. Perhaps reducing it to next to nothing. I would also cut way down on the number of green cards given out each year. Out of the people that wanted to apply for legal citizenship I would take the best and the brightest, and the ones that could come in and have an immediate ability to take care of themselves or close to it. If at some future time the country ended up loosing total population, or went though changes that allowed it to have an influx of new people coming in without hurting the Americans who are here or hurting the system then of course the number of people that would be allowed in per year would be increased to reflect that change.
If all else fails
I would put a fence up along the border. Then in every area I could, I would put up another fence about a half mile back to create a sort of natural zone. . I would have a few places traffic would be allowed to cross the border, but other than that it would be closed off. I would bring soldiers that are not needed from other parts of the world like South Korea, Europe, and the Middle East to man it. Only authorized people would be allowed in there to patrol it. Then on the inner fence where it is closest to us I would put up gun emplacements at regular intervals wherever possible. Within the zone, with the exception of people authorized to be in it, I would have orders to shoot anybody that is inside of it. They would stop coming over land after that.
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member2686
Banned
Tell us how you REALLY feel, man. lmao Excellent post, but I agree with about 60% of it. :hatsoff:
The bottom line, for me, is that crossing the border without the USA's legal authorization is a crime, and you should be deported for that crime, not jailed in the USA's prison system (roughly 30% of the USA's prison population are illegal immigrants, by the way) which further financially burdens the populations both of legal immigrants and of "natural" citizens. Come in legally, and you're fully welcome here. Break the law by running over the Rio Grande or flying over from somewhere on a tourist/student visa and staying, and you should be sent home when caught.
I've wanted to move to several European countries for the last 20 years, since I was a teen, but labor and immigration laws of protectionism (economic) make it extremely difficult to do. I've studied and lived over there with a student visa, and would love to move there, but it's extremely hard to do - legally. We have those same sorts of laws in the USA, and I understand why they exist - countries are trying to protect the economic vitality of their own citizens.
If you have 3 children and allow 6 orphans to invade your home without a key to your house (permission), your own children will have less food, clothing, medical care, personal time with you as a parent, and the quality of living will be diminished unless you triple your personal income. The same applies to nations and their gross domestic production and taxation.
This has nothing to do with race or exploitation or xenophobia, IMO. It has to do with national sovereignty.
Great post, D-rock, even if I don't agree with you 100%.
:thumbsup:
The bottom line, for me, is that crossing the border without the USA's legal authorization is a crime, and you should be deported for that crime, not jailed in the USA's prison system (roughly 30% of the USA's prison population are illegal immigrants, by the way) which further financially burdens the populations both of legal immigrants and of "natural" citizens. Come in legally, and you're fully welcome here. Break the law by running over the Rio Grande or flying over from somewhere on a tourist/student visa and staying, and you should be sent home when caught.
I've wanted to move to several European countries for the last 20 years, since I was a teen, but labor and immigration laws of protectionism (economic) make it extremely difficult to do. I've studied and lived over there with a student visa, and would love to move there, but it's extremely hard to do - legally. We have those same sorts of laws in the USA, and I understand why they exist - countries are trying to protect the economic vitality of their own citizens.
If you have 3 children and allow 6 orphans to invade your home without a key to your house (permission), your own children will have less food, clothing, medical care, personal time with you as a parent, and the quality of living will be diminished unless you triple your personal income. The same applies to nations and their gross domestic production and taxation.
This has nothing to do with race or exploitation or xenophobia, IMO. It has to do with national sovereignty.
Great post, D-rock, even if I don't agree with you 100%.
:thumbsup:
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The real issue is why Mexico, the President of Mexico, the Government of Mexico can not improve the living standard, provide better health care, more job opportunities for the Mexican.
Why the majority of the illegal immigrants are from Mexico and Central America ?
Millions of Canadians go to United States "everyday" (I am sure many stay !) But the majority returns back home.
So the root of the problem is to improve developing countries' economies, provide more jobs by Mexicans for Mexicans in Mexico and other Central American countries.
I am also saddened by the exploitation by everyone involved to exploit illegal immigrants.
Over 60% of the Federal prisoners in the Federal Prisons are Hispanic and it costs well over $25,000.00 to house an inmate in 2006.
Consider the number of Federal prisoners x $25,000= billions and billions of dollars (This does not count the state prisons)
We need a sound Immigration policy. Don't fool ourselves about an open door policy.
By 2050, 60% of all North American are minority !
(Unless you have been to the most populous country in the world with 1.32 billion people, you will never understand you have to fight for "fresh air" to breath !)
Overpopulation either by immigration or natural birth will KILL !
Why the majority of the illegal immigrants are from Mexico and Central America ?
Millions of Canadians go to United States "everyday" (I am sure many stay !) But the majority returns back home.
So the root of the problem is to improve developing countries' economies, provide more jobs by Mexicans for Mexicans in Mexico and other Central American countries.
I am also saddened by the exploitation by everyone involved to exploit illegal immigrants.
Over 60% of the Federal prisoners in the Federal Prisons are Hispanic and it costs well over $25,000.00 to house an inmate in 2006.
Consider the number of Federal prisoners x $25,000= billions and billions of dollars (This does not count the state prisons)
We need a sound Immigration policy. Don't fool ourselves about an open door policy.
By 2050, 60% of all North American are minority !
(Unless you have been to the most populous country in the world with 1.32 billion people, you will never understand you have to fight for "fresh air" to breath !)
Overpopulation either by immigration or natural birth will KILL !
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Bottom line is this:
There is a legal process in place to become a citizen of this country, follow that process and you won't have a problem.
As to where I stand:
I think our military should leave Iraq asap and be place along our countries borders to prevent illegal entry into this country whether its for immigration or terroristic purposes.:2 cents:
There is a legal process in place to become a citizen of this country, follow that process and you won't have a problem.
As to where I stand:
I think our military should leave Iraq asap and be place along our countries borders to prevent illegal entry into this country whether its for immigration or terroristic purposes.:2 cents:
Excellent post D-rock! :thumbsup:
The whole thing pisses me off. Our government is too chickenshit to do anything about the immigration issue apparently. Hearing them talk about amnesty is crap. "If they're here 5 year or more..." What the fuck!! How can you prove that someone who isn't a legal citizen has been here for 5 years??? "We can't just send them home" Bullshit! I see those fuckers all over the place looking for work. The ones who aren't picked up right away will get caught eventually; Why does it have to occur overnight?? "They work the jobs no one else will for less money" My ass! Dickhead pays them a few bucks and a case of beer to pick some fruit. Then they bleed our social services dry with hospital visits while taking American money south of the border to recycle in their economy, not ours!! It ends up costing us all more to have them here doing that fucking work "no one else will do". Morons.
Go after the people that hire them and slap 'em with fines. You want them here, you pay their fucking medical bills.
The whole thing pisses me off. Our government is too chickenshit to do anything about the immigration issue apparently. Hearing them talk about amnesty is crap. "If they're here 5 year or more..." What the fuck!! How can you prove that someone who isn't a legal citizen has been here for 5 years??? "We can't just send them home" Bullshit! I see those fuckers all over the place looking for work. The ones who aren't picked up right away will get caught eventually; Why does it have to occur overnight?? "They work the jobs no one else will for less money" My ass! Dickhead pays them a few bucks and a case of beer to pick some fruit. Then they bleed our social services dry with hospital visits while taking American money south of the border to recycle in their economy, not ours!! It ends up costing us all more to have them here doing that fucking work "no one else will do". Morons.
Go after the people that hire them and slap 'em with fines. You want them here, you pay their fucking medical bills.
********** said:
I guess tact is not your strong suit.
OK...so we know that the Domino Theory doesn't work for politics....BUT it DOES work for economics. Think about it...
No immigration, Immigrants get deported.
-So far, the lowest estimates for this are in excess of $200 billion.
Employers now have 2 options: Either they take the additional cost (in pay, benefits, and healthcare) of hiring American workers and bleed a lot of their growth-producing profits or they are unable to operate under the increased costs and they shut down.
If employers take option one, the economy will suffer due to decreased profits choking off business growth and higher inflation rates, which would be the result of a rapidly tightening job market. Therefore, they have less money to spend, and the money that does remain loses a higher percentage of its value.
If employers take option two, the overall economy will still be hurt by job and business loss. When businesses shut down or downsize, they don't generate as much revenue, they don't employ as many people (legal or otherwise), and they don't pay as much in tax. So, you're left with more unemployment, a greater strain on the job market due to all those now looking for new jobs, and as before, a heightened risk of inflation.
All things considered, both options leave a lot to be desired. They both will cost a giant sum, be extremely difficult to implement, and be detrimental to the growth and prosperity of our economy. On the other hand, if we let them stay here, we can fulfill a necessary need in our economy, draw taxes from them, and allow them to have a chance at the same dream that our own immigrant ancestors cherished so much.
No immigration, Immigrants get deported.
-So far, the lowest estimates for this are in excess of $200 billion.
Employers now have 2 options: Either they take the additional cost (in pay, benefits, and healthcare) of hiring American workers and bleed a lot of their growth-producing profits or they are unable to operate under the increased costs and they shut down.
If employers take option one, the economy will suffer due to decreased profits choking off business growth and higher inflation rates, which would be the result of a rapidly tightening job market. Therefore, they have less money to spend, and the money that does remain loses a higher percentage of its value.
If employers take option two, the overall economy will still be hurt by job and business loss. When businesses shut down or downsize, they don't generate as much revenue, they don't employ as many people (legal or otherwise), and they don't pay as much in tax. So, you're left with more unemployment, a greater strain on the job market due to all those now looking for new jobs, and as before, a heightened risk of inflation.
All things considered, both options leave a lot to be desired. They both will cost a giant sum, be extremely difficult to implement, and be detrimental to the growth and prosperity of our economy. On the other hand, if we let them stay here, we can fulfill a necessary need in our economy, draw taxes from them, and allow them to have a chance at the same dream that our own immigrant ancestors cherished so much.
Native Americans were also immigrants to this country so why didn't they have to ask the buffalo if they could live here. You are trying to make an argument about something that happen hundreds of years ago, times were certainly different, it is not revelant to today's situation. There are only some many jobs and other resources to be had for the legal resident of this country. That being said I have no problem with legal immigration to the US.
D-rock said:
Nice post D-rock. I agree with everything except this. I'm sure some impoverished Americans would gladly do anything that put food on the table. Most people here are just too damn lazy.
I don't think the average American is too ignorant or care free to worry about worker exploitation. I'm sure it's going on somewhere, but not in the titanic proportions you appear to believe.
Otherwise though, That's about what I'd do too. Get here legal or don't bother. And PLEASE learn English if you're going to come.
No it also occured hundred of years of ago for the Native American too.
My thoughts as well, and if you are going to sneek into the country maybe learning english would be a good idea. It is the offical language, countries with multiple "offical" languages seem to have a host of problems, China for example is a bit of pain to get around I am told.
om3ga
It's good to be the king...
Immigration is an issue with crosses boundaries:
White working class voters are being "tempted" by the extreme-right British National Party as they feel Labour is not listening to their concerns, a government minister has said.
It was alleged that the BNP could win seats in the Barking constituency in May's local election polls. The minister added the area's "difficult" change from a white area to a multi-racial community had caused some people to seek out "scapegoats".
The BNP said Labour were ignoring fears over "mass immigration" to the UK. In last year's general election the BNP polled third in Barking, east London, receiving 17% of the vote.
Meanwhile anger with the main parties has led more people to consider voting for the British National Party, a report for a social policy research group says.
The Joseph Rowntree Reform Trust said up to 25% of voters said they "might vote" for the BNP.
details:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/4915096.stm
White working class voters are being "tempted" by the extreme-right British National Party as they feel Labour is not listening to their concerns, a government minister has said.
It was alleged that the BNP could win seats in the Barking constituency in May's local election polls. The minister added the area's "difficult" change from a white area to a multi-racial community had caused some people to seek out "scapegoats".
The BNP said Labour were ignoring fears over "mass immigration" to the UK. In last year's general election the BNP polled third in Barking, east London, receiving 17% of the vote.
Meanwhile anger with the main parties has led more people to consider voting for the British National Party, a report for a social policy research group says.
The Joseph Rowntree Reform Trust said up to 25% of voters said they "might vote" for the BNP.
details:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/4915096.stm
********** said:
Not to seem too cold hearted, even though it might be, but, quite frankly, that's not our problem. A lot of bad things go on all over the world. It isn't our responsibility to fix them or help out those before we take care of everybody in this country.
********** said:
We should dictate since THEY are the ones that want to come over HERE. It isn't better it is just the language we have and they should learn it. If they can't or are unable to learn it then like my statement above, that isn't our problem.
********** said:
Seriously this is one of the sillier things you have said **********. I hate to break it to you but America does belong to its citizens. It is ours, whether you like it or not. It is no more theirs than the UK, Germany, or China belongs to the people of the United States. That message on the statue of liberty was written by some naive woman that had poor foresight and lived in a different time when our country could better handle immigrants, it was never a founding principle of this country and they put it there because it was a nice flowery saying that sounded good, just like the puffery some advertising slogans use. I would like to get on with my own life, unfortunately illegal immigrants will affect my own life and it definitely won't be to make it better that’s for sure. Maybe some rich executive that uses their cheap labor will benefit form it, not people like me.
alexios_hellas said:
Your way of thinking has some serious flaws in it. One you don't consider the fact that if employers had to give people more money to have them work then they would have more money to spend on the economy.
Two, exploitation of workers (and what I consider as exploitation isn't just things that are necessarily illegal, it stuff like working an honest days work and instead of getting an honest days pay you get minimum wage with lousy benefits while your body is being worn down year after year) is wrong no matter what benefit you get from it. By the cutthroat capitalistic way of thinking we might as well go back to nearly reinstituting slavery. After all look at the profit margins companies could get to invigorate the economy. Unbounded economic benifits isn't an excuse for doing something that is inherently wrong. Around 165 years ago are country paid a heavy price for that way of thinking, and I can't help but think someday we are going to pay a price once again.
There were times when America didn't need cheap labor to function effectively, namely the 1960's, and it worked pretty well. Regular people actually made a living wage, bought a car, house, had a family, and had some minor luxuries while....gasp...having only a one income household, and they didn't need 4 to 8 years of college to do it either. The products they made worked well also and you didn't have to throw it away two years later because it was already broken.
I could see some ways that it might hurt our country at first, but we need to wean ourselves from the dope that is cheap labor. I guess it would be too much to ask for the rich to give more than they have been and for companies to make less profit though, because if they have their way that is never going to happen.
I would also like to say that I don't hate immigrants or have anything against them personally. If our situations were reversed I would probably try what they are doing. The difference is I wouldn't be bithching when that country exercised it's right to kick my ass out of it, and I would feel that somebody else owes me anything. I would also understand I was taking the risk of what happen to me if I went into somebody else’s country, not act like I have the right to get my own way just because that's what I wanted. If I had a button I could push to fix what is wrong with the world I would have done it already. Unfortunately fixing what is wrong is more complex than that and it has gotten to the point where it's not that I don't want to help people, it that we can't reasonable do it anymore. Maybe some rich millions can, but most normal people can't. If the situation was different, I would be more than happy to let immigrants who deserved it into this country. The situation isn't different however.
LOL , this thread is funny.
I like how one guy mentioned that illegals should use the "legal process." Best part of the thread.
And the person who said that Americans would also pick fruit if they got paid 15 hrs. You obviously have no idea what it's like to be a field worker.
I like how one guy mentioned that illegals should use the "legal process." Best part of the thread.
And the person who said that Americans would also pick fruit if they got paid 15 hrs. You obviously have no idea what it's like to be a field worker.
Jagger69
Three lullabies in an ancient tongue
Regardless of the logistically impractical assertion that has been made in this thread that all illegal aliens need to be deported (there's over 11 million of them), we still have to find some way to legitimize these people as citizens as all immigrants have historically done in some organized and legal fashion. I blame the US government for allowing this to go on way too long before deciding to do something about it. Reallocation of a portion the 41 cents out of every tax dollar that now goes to national defense and the fucking IDIOTIC war in Iraq to shore up our borders and gain some control over this unrestricted flood that currently exists would be the first key step.
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