Rewarding Illegal Immigration?

[lordvader1]

Native Americans were also immigrants to this country so why didn't they have to ask the buffalo if they could live here. You are trying to make an argument about something that happen hundreds of years ago, times were certainly different, it is not revelant to today's situation. There are only some many jobs and other resources to be had for the legal resident of this country. That being said I have no problem with legal immigration to the US.

I have no problem with LEGAL immigration either. My problem is that these people hop over a fence ILLEGALLY to come and live in my country. Then while they're here they take jobs away from Americans who are trying to make a decent life to support their families or themselves. Plus the fact that these people bitch and complain about the way things are done in the US is mindboggling. HELLO, they're not even legal citizens THEY HAVE NO RIGHT to complain about anything that goes on here. If they are so unhappy I'll be more then happy to lend my foot to kick their asses back to wherever they come from.
Plus what's one of the largest gangs in the country MS-13 or whatever it's called. All or most of it's members are from Mexico and have come here illegally. They rape, steal, murder, and harass Americans for the pure fun of it. They get deported and are back in a month...WHAT!!! How the hell is this possible.

If someone would grow some balls and step up to the plate to make some hard but fair laws none of this would happen. The biggest problem is is that this country is in the Politically Correct era. Everyone (except me) is afraid to open their mouth and speak the truth about some of these issues for fear of being labeled a racist or worse. My god a white athlete has to apologize for blowing his nose into a black tissue or vice versa. Or, I won't watch BET network so that means I hate blacks. IT'S PATHETIC. For christ's sake just say that these immigrants are here illeagally and they have to go, what's so damn hard about that. Guess freedom of speech is dead.

I have no problem with someone coming here from wherever to earn themselves a better life but do it LEGALLY!!!

 

[Rubber Soul]

I have no problem with LEGAL immigration either. My problem is that these people hop over a fence ILLEGALLY to come and live in my country.

Who said this was your country?

We borrow $2 billion per day from foreigners,to finance our trade deficits. Some $2.19 trillion in Treasury securities were in the hands of central banks,including China and Japan,and private investors abroad.Foreign direct investments in this country,buildings,factories,etc.was $1.53 trillon. Church's Chicken (Arab),Nestle (Swiss), T-Mobile (German),Caribou Coffee (Arab), Essex House hotel (Arab) the list goes on and on.

Top five investors in the U.S.(2004)
United Kingdom $251 billon 16.4%
Japan $177 billon 12%
Netherlands $167 billon 11%
Germany $163 billon 11%
France $148 billon 10%

Foreign companies and other invested $1.5 trillon into the U.S.,employed 5.4 U.S. residents,with a payroll of$317.9 billon. They own vital services like water,sewar,electric,and food.(J.C.Penney Canadian,Hallmark United Kingdom,Nabisco Mexico,Nike Products Canada,Goodyear Tires France,Etc.) U.S.companies invest $2 trilloninto other countries.


Here & Here

 

[lordvader1]

It's my country because I was fucking born here. I vote and pay my taxes and do lot's of other things LEGAL Americans are given the right to do. See being that I'm an American I can bitch that JC Penney is foreign owned. But some asshole who lives in a room with 15 other of his fugitive buddies has no god damn right so say anything. What country are you from?? I bet I can dig up some numbers on your country too that would really piss you off.

 

[KungFuDude]

This country doesn't belong to anyone and it belongs to everyone. Being born here gives you no more human right to this land than someone who wasn't. Legally, sure, you have more rights, but nowhere does it state that any of this belongs to you. It belongs to the federal government. Nature out-trumps even the federal government.

This land belongs to the people of the United States of America -not the federal government - the people. We are the ones that make up this great nation and make it thrive. (You know, those of us who were born here.)

It sure as hell doesn't belong to the Mexicans or their ancestors. Were they the ones that forged this country into what it is today or are they just trying to cash in on our people's success?

Being American doesn't give you any rights... any... that others don't have. Laws change. You think being American gives you more than other nations have. There are at least fifty nations in the world where citizens have just as many rights as Americans do. Just as much freedom.

It gives us plenty of rights...in our land. The impoverished Mexicans and latin Americans sneaking into this country have rights to their land. Not ours. Are we to blame for their countries failures and misfortunes? NO

And what does all the other free countries of the world having equal rights to us have anything to do with our domestic immigration problems? Great, they have equal freedom in Sweden. Is there 2500 illegal aliens sneaking across their border daily as well?

The only difference between your country and their countries is that yours is richer. That is all. That's not such a great thing to be boastful about when there are people dying all over the world, and people living in shacks without electricity in the south in your country, too.

Who's boasting? And why should we feel sorry for them either. Life sucks all over the place. You think we can solve the problems of everyone, everywhere?

I think you live in fantasyland man.

 

[KungFuDude]

I don't live in fantasyland, I live in the USA. And not being born here doesn't give me any less rights than you, and someday a foreign man or woman will be President.

Yes of course, but you are here legally, correct?

Woman President? - someday yes. Totally agree. Probably not in my lifetime. Maybe, but I doubt it. Remember where you are man. We are still quite a bigoted nation. And barring an act of Congress, a foreign born President is still impossible.

A lot of European countries have illegal immigration problems, yes. But they often make it easier to do it legally.

Not anywhere near the scale of illegal immigration in the United States. None of them have the largest protected land border in the world to defend, do they?

America is, it can be argued, partially responsible for a lot of other nations' failures economically. America has never been a team player.

What nations are those? Cuba, North Korea, and Iran? Hey the U.S. is getting pushed around by plenty of other nations out there too these days.

Part of America used to belong to Mexico. It might again someday, who knows. Land changes hands but LAND does not belong to ANYONE.

The meek shall inherit the earth? Is that what you're getting at? Sure it can be owned by anyone, but right now its owned by the people of the United States of America.

If you are being technical about it, it belongs to the Federal Government. They may be elected by the people, but they legally own every inch of the USA, I'm not sure about Indian Reservations. If we're talking about ownership, weren't the Indians technically here first? Weren't the Mexicans technically in California first?

"Government of the people, by the people, and for the people." The government is the people. I mean if you really want to get technical about it.



Ok, I do agree with you that it is more about ME in this country than it is about WE. Of course thats the case. What do you expect? Its the epitome of a capitalist society. We encourage the go-getter, the innovator. If you want handouts, go move to Canada. I'm sure they fit more into your idea of government anyway.

Like you say, this country is made up of the whole world. Thats part of what makes it great. We don't have the right to defend our border though? We want a lot of these people, just like we want you, but our country has just gotten to dam big for its own good and we can't take them all anymore.

 

[member2686]

KFD, you're spot on. I couldn't agree with you more. :thumbsup: :hatsoff: :nanner:

 

[DukeBlackDevil]

There are two big lies being bandied about with the immigration debate our country is currently embroiled in. First, that illegal immigrants do jobs that Americans can't or won't do. False, these are jobs that Americans will not do for minimum wages and no healthcare benefits. Second, that it is the fault of the immigrants for being here. False, it is the fault of the employers for illegally hiring these immigrants.

excellent points hedgehog :thumbsup:

 

[Rubber Soul]

It's my country because I was fucking born here. I vote and pay my taxes and do lot's of other things LEGAL Americans are given the right to do. See being that I'm an American I can bitch that JC Penney is foreign owned. But some asshole who lives in a room with 15 other of his fugitive buddies has no god damn right so say anything. What country are you from?? I bet I can dig up some numbers on your country too that would really piss you off.

Wow, you must be feeling really tough posting all those curse words.

For your information, Illegals pay for taxes and they also vote locally and for the presidential election.

Dig up dirt of my country? Look no further than George Bush.

 

[member2686]

Cursing or swearing adds emphasis, Rubber Soul. Sure, it's often a refuge for those with small vocabularies, but for those of us with ample to vast vocabularies, having read our posts, you'll KNOW that we mean business when we swear or "cuss/curse." I swear quite a bit, but I can also write the most delicate, eloquent, and pretty of posts... I pick and choose depending on the topic at-hand and my mood.

To topic: Illegal immigrants do NOT pay taxes, nor do they or CAN they LEGALLY vote. That's one problem we have in our electoral process - illegal registrations to vote by illegal immigrants. It's absurd. That'd be like me trying to vote for the next Chancellor of Germany.

I don't want to ramble on here...KungFuDude summarized everything brilliantly.

Every nation's sovereignty, as established and made legal and accepted by the international /global commuity and the U.N., etc. is to be recognized. There is no "one world, one love" Marley-esque Utopia... It'll never happen. NEVER. NEVER.

NEVER.

NEVER.

Did I say "never" yet? Oh yeah...I did.

NEVER.

The "sandbox" is only so big, and we each, as nations, have our place in which to "play."

:2 cents: :hatsoff:

 

[lordvader1]

The idea, my bewildered friend, is to give freedom equally to ALL, not just to whites, to oppress blacks.



BECAUSE WHITE AMERICA ENSLAVED BLACK AMERICA FOR HUNDREDS OF YEARS AND AS RECENTLY AS FIFTY YEARS AGO BLACKS WERE SEGREGATED AND SYSTEMATICALLY DISCRIMINATED AGAINST.



Fox

Let's see Lincoln freed the slaves in the 1860's. America was born in 1776. I'm confused, that's less then 100 years so where do you get your facts from? I seem to remember Africans trading and or selling their own people to the eventual discoverers of this country. You should be pissed at the ancestors of the slaves not current white America. Europeans brought new found riches to their little world and they sold out their own people, that's my fault? Tell me also if we are all to be united as one in this country why do the very names of races vary....

Example:
African-American
Italian-American
Chinese-American
The list goes on....

Why can't we just be Americans? Black, white, yellow, green who the hell cares as long as we're all American. I think that a lot of you people should stop worrying and bitching about the past and focus on the present and future. What can I or anyone for that matter do to change the fact that my great-great-great-great grandfather MIGHT have owned a slave. Or one of my German relatives was in the SS. I can't do a damn thing about it and neither can you. The past is the past, deal with it and move on. Try to make a better community with what you have now. Now I know what someone will say "So and so is holding me down." Bullshit! Don't tell me that your local Congressman or whomever is stopping you from flipping burgers at McDonald's or something. We all have to start at the bottom at some point in our lives. Making $8/ hr isn't much but if it puts food in your child's mouth then so be it. There's always room for advancement.

I'm so tired of hearing about the poor black man or the poor Jew. Read a history book once in a while. There are far worse things that have happened besides the holocaust and the slave trade in human history. Don't make it sound like blacks are the only ones who have had a "problem". Fox I think your hatred towards the white race has blinded you from a much larger world. I truly pity you.

 

[Member2019]

The problem ...

The problem has never been the immigrant, but the American who exploits them. If you started throwing Americans who employ illegal immigrants for medicare, social security and income tax evasion, or for violating state minimum wage laws, it would stop overnight! It's funny, in some states illegal immigrants have the right to legal representation and welfare, but they don't have any protections from Americans who will exploit them.

That's the root problem.

I have no problem with people who hire illegal immigrants, pay them their fair wage, withhold medicare, social security and income tax (even if it goes into escrow for future payment to the government), etc... But that never happens! Why? Because they might as well hire a legal American! So that's why they don't do it.

So, again, you go after the abusers, you fix the problem.

 

[RogueWolf]

A couple columns that really do a good job of expressing some of my thoughts.

This one was written by a black woman. (For anyone who thinks this is an issue only white men care about.)

Check out the first article on this page.

 

[KungFuDude]

This one was written by a black woman. (For anyone who thinks this is an issue only white men care about.)

Well that woman said everything I and every other American is thinking right now.

How can we really take them seriously if they are carrying their native flags through our nation's capital, chanting "We Shall Overcome" in spanish? They aren't going to win much support with that approach from Americans. :2 cents:

 

[member2686]

I LOVE it when we have cerebral discussions like THIS. THIS is what makes this board worthwhile, engaging, and entertaining (to me). I could not give 2 shits about "who has the best tits/ass/whatever?" threads (I already know who/what I like in erotica and porn). lol

Awesome discussion, guys! :thumbsup: :nanner: :hatsoff:

 

[KungFuDude]

They are Americans, dude. You don't represent "America". You are not "we". We are all "WE", including the Spanish speakers, and Mexican flag wavers, ALL without ANY exception. You don't get to dictate the language, you don't get to dictate the flag we wave, and you don't get to label non-English speakers and Mexican flag wavers as "THEY" and exclude them using terms like "OUR" nation's capital. That's what's beautiful about America. You are we but so are they and so am I and we are all we together.

So stop splitting US up and accept the fact that not all of US want to speak YOUR language (or can afford to learn it between the double shifts and 80 hour work weeks!).

Fox

No, they aren't Americans. Thats the whole point.

These ILLEGALS are marching on OUR nation's capital, when they have no right to be here in the first place. Then they wave a completely different flag to that of the UNITED STATES of AMERICA. The very country they supposedly want to be apart of and be a citizen. And demanding all of this while speaking a completely different language to our own? We are supposed to take them even remotely serious? Its INSULTING! Its insulting to every LEGAL citizen of this country. You want to wave your native flag. Be my guest, but don't wave it while demanding to be a citizen of this land. Its insulting.

You've also decided to lump yourself in with the illegals for some reason. No, you're not the same as them Fox. You, I'm assuming, are here LEGALLY. They broke OUR laws when they illegally came across OUR borders. They don't even have the right to be here, let alone argue for that right.

Now they are here, ILLEGALLY, and want to argue for equal rights for them and theirs? GO ARGUE FOR RIGHTS IN YOUR OWN COUNTRY FIRST! Its not like they are coming from some oppressive dictatorship. They come from democratic republics of their own. GO MARCH ON YOUR OWN CAPITALS! Start blowing the winds of change in your own lands before you bring it upon another.

 

[4G63]

If you pay taxes on wages earned your an American. Your work is profiting the nation, therefore your a citizen, at least in my eyes.

 

[Baal]

Illegal immigration is the double edged sword of globalization. Its standard comparative advantage...Noone wants to work in a country where they get peanuts on the dollar to buy products sold by developed countries that they cant afford.

Their reaction...move here and send money home to get a jump on the situation. If we want to end illegal immigration - we need to allow indigenous elites and entrepeneurs to set up show on their own, and catch up a little bit..sure we'll lose a lot of money and market share in the process but it will solve the problem...

As if!! Corporate America and the culture of global MNC's would never let this happen. As long as this remains the case, we will never see an end of people who will stop at nothing to come to the USA to lead a better life...even if we tell them no. Did you ever try to beat the system at the DMV because you were in a hurry and you felt you had a better reason to be first than anyone else so you pulled a fast one and spoofed your ticket??? Its the same concept but amplified. People will always try to cut corners because they are desperate in a way 2nd generation + americans can never comprehend.

So America we have a choice...we can reduce our global reach and become one of the gang, or we can do business as usual and head'em off with shotguns at the border...

Problem is...they are going to keep coming...its our choice really. Or rather, the choice of the MNC's...

Globalization is a two way street - the unequal global distribution of wealth will continue to try and correct itself...as all people, according to the rules we invented, will attempt to optimize their returns...

Simple mathamatics for a self-interested world, a world we've been sold on for years and one which is bound to erode the very concept of the nation state. Pretty soon we'll be from places like Coca-colarado or McNuggetstan...

And these companies dont give a fuck who we are or where we come from...all in the name of maximizing profits and satisfying their shareholders...its a wacky world and if we keep it up...the global haves are gonna seperate themselves from the global have nots....with total disregard for national boundaries. So we might be comfortable now...but in 100 years our grandkids could be living in a shanty hut next to people from nigeria, mongolia and yes, Iran, Syria and North Korea baby... Recycled Kimchee and falafal for everyone!!!!!

I know it sounds like I'm ranting...Immigration sheesh...part of a way bigger puzzle!

 

[member2686]

Let me toss this firecracker into the mix, just for shits and grins... :eek:

Should we get rid of "African-American," "Hispanic-American," "Latino-American," and whatever other hyphenated "term du jour," then?

I'm sick to death of the hyphenization of ethnicities/nationalities. Where were you born? Period. That's enough for me, and fuck your skin color - it means nothing to ME, but then again, I'm a bit different; for some people, skin color is a barrier. Assholes...

Until you behave, act, or speak otherwise, I'll consider you my equal and show you due respect as I expect from you. I don't need to hyphenate my ethnicity out of pride or arrogance or some feeling of either superiority or victimization, and neither should you...

:2 cents:

 

[Baal]

Let me toss this firecracker into the mix, just for shits and grins... :eek:

Should we get rid of "African-American," "Hispanic-American," "Latino-American," and whatever other hyphenated "term du jour," then?

I'm sick to death of the hyphenization of ethnicities/nationalities. Where were you born? Period. That's enough for me, and fuck your skin color - it means nothing to ME, but then again, I'm a bit different; for some people, skin color is a barrier. Assholes...

Until you behave, act, or speak otherwise, I'll consider you my equal and show you due respect as I expect from you. I don't need to hyphenate my ethnicity out of pride or arrogance or some feeling of either superiority or victimization, and neither should you...

:2 cents:

Works for me...its all a world of green to me anyway!

 

[member2686]

Indeed. It's all about the "green." LOL :nanner:

Works for me...its all a world of green to me anyway!